The Linux Questions Thread: a bunch of pitfalls, but technically it's possible

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Linux Questions Thread: a bunch of pitfalls, but technically it's possible

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dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

telcoM posted:

Meanwhile, since it turned out Fedora does not use /proc/bus/usb by default, the simplest way to apply your current fix would be to place your mount command (without the sudo, but otherwise as-is) to /etc/rc.local: it's a script that will be run automatically at the end of system startup. It's the easiest way to add simple things to the startup procedure.

A word of warning, seems like rc.local won't be run anymore in F16, since systemd doesn't run it by default (F15 seems to have some hybrid between sysvinit and systemd that makes it run). To enable it in F16, you'd have to use 'systemctl enable rc-local.service'. You can check whether it's enabled with 'systemctl is-enabled rc-local.service'.

# ? Oct 14, 2011 11:08

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# ? May 10, 2024 02:15

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Hah WTF.

My linux. :qq:

# ? Oct 14, 2011 11:12

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

spankmeister posted:

Hah WTF.

My linux.

Yeah, Poettering has received a lot of poo poo over his different projects. There's also talk about integrating gnome with systemd, which would make it unable to run on any other system than linux basically (since systemd relies on a lot of linux-specific stuff).

Don't think that's gonna happen though, but it's under discussion.

Either way, seems a lot of the more desktop oriented linux systems are moving over to systemd. Fedora has switched, opensuse is switching, it's in the arch package tree (though sysvinit is still default, same in debian). We'll see what happens.

Personally, I like it, but I also like pulseaudio, so I'm probably close to being "objectively wrong".

# ? Oct 14, 2011 11:53

angrytech: Jun 26, 2009

hootimus posted:

I guess this is a good a place as any to ask, so here goes.

Can anyone recommend a good place to discuss sensitive security issues? What I mean is, I think my work has designed a really lovely, insecure system that could easily be compromised with catastrophic consequences. So while I would like to discuss it with people more knowledgeable than myself, I also don't want to disclose too much to the wrong parties.

Any recommendations?

Don't. Just forget all about them. If it's not your job to worry about security, then you'll just be the first suspect whenever something goes wrong.
The furthest I'd go would be sending an email to your boss to document something you find.

# ? Oct 14, 2011 15:31

kyuss: Nov 6, 2004

nitrogen posted:

Nope, it SHOULD do what you want.

Were you getting soemthing like this?
code:
 sudo service --status-all
 [ + ]  acpid
 [ - ]  bootlogd
 [ - ]  bootlogs
 [ ? ]  bootmisc.sh
 [ ? ]  checkfs.sh

...

Nah, thats what I expected to get, but the output was something different. As if every service in this list had received a startup command, regardless if it was already running or not.

Didn't help that the head of development was sitting right next to me as I tried to get a basic overview over his production server

Oh well.

# ? Oct 15, 2011 08:02

waffle iron: Jan 16, 2004

Zom Aur posted:

Yeah, Poettering has received a lot of poo poo over his different projects. There's also talk about integrating gnome with systemd, which would make it unable to run on any other system than linux basically (since systemd relies on a lot of linux-specific stuff).

Don't think that's gonna happen though, but it's under discussion.

Either way, seems a lot of the more desktop oriented linux systems are moving over to systemd. Fedora has switched, opensuse is switching, it's in the arch package tree (though sysvinit is still default, same in debian). We'll see what happens.

Personally, I like it, but I also like pulseaudio, so I'm probably close to being "objectively wrong".

systemd was designed to require cgroups, something only available on Linux. It was always Linux only.

# ? Oct 15, 2011 16:30

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

waffle iron posted:

systemd was designed to require cgroups, something only available on Linux. It was always Linux only.

Yeah, my point was that the talk about gnome making systemd a depend would limit gnome to being linux-only. That's what I think will be unlikely, the gnome-devs making systemd a dep. I could've structured my post better though, I suppose.

# ? Oct 15, 2011 17:46

Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

Does anyone know of a way to get a working install USB stick for Lucid SERVER edition? I just wasted 4 or 5 hours trying to do so.

(to clarify: the guide on help.ubuntu.org tells you to use a utility which it claims is found on the .iso, when it is not, and it is not available for download elsewhere as far as I can tell)

Socket Ryanist fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 15, 2011

# ? Oct 15, 2011 23:25

Longinus00: Dec 29, 2005; Ur-Quan

Socket Ryanist posted:

Does anyone know of a way to get a working install USB stick for Lucid SERVER edition? I just wasted 4 or 5 hours trying to do so.

(to clarify: the guide on help.ubuntu.org tells you to use a utility which it claims is found on the .iso, when it is not, and it is not available for download elsewhere as far as I can tell)

There should be no difference between making a usb stick for the server or desktop editions. The newest isos are hybrid and can be dd' (bit copied) to a drive so if all else fails you can do that.

VVV

You should probably have asked in the windows thread if you question was how to create a bootable usb in windows. The utility they're talking about probably only exists on the desktop iso. Here's a program I have never used before but maybe it will work for you. http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Oct 15, 2011

# ? Oct 15, 2011 23:40

Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

Longinus00 posted:

There should be no difference between making a usb stick for the server or desktop editions. The newest isos can be dd' (byte copied) to a drive so if all else fails you can do that.

By the newest isos do you perhaps mean newer than lucid? I specifically want an LTS edition.

Also dd requires an existing linux install and I'd like a process which could be carried out on windows.

# ? Oct 15, 2011 23:42

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Socket Ryanist posted:

By the newest isos do you perhaps mean newer than lucid? I specifically want an LTS edition.

Also dd requires an existing linux install and I'd like a process which could be carried out on windows.

There is dd for windows

# ? Oct 16, 2011 00:22

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Zom Aur posted:

Yeah, my point was that the talk about gnome making systemd a depend would limit gnome to being linux-only. That's what I think will be unlikely, the gnome-devs making systemd a dep. I could've structured my post better though, I suppose.

Because we'd hate to alienate the 1% of Unix users, users which comprise 1% of all computer users.

So basically like 5 people would be bothered by this (I work with all of them).

# ? Oct 16, 2011 00:49

nitrogen: May 21, 2004; Oh, what's a 217°C difference between friends?

FISHMANPET posted:

Because we'd hate to alienate the 1% of Unix users, users which comprise 1% of all computer users.

So basically like 5 people would be bothered by this (I work with all of them).

Considering how Gnome has been going, pissing everyone off is their S.O.P., so i would not be surprised.

# ? Oct 16, 2011 08:19

Postal: Aug 9, 2003; Don't make me go postal!

nitrogen posted:

Considering how Gnome has been going, pissing everyone off is their S.O.P., so i would not be surprised.

This was my first thought when I read that earlier post as well. Seems like they are trying to run themselves into the ground.

# ? Oct 16, 2011 14:55

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

So, this is a bit of an odd question.

I have an ESATA drive on FreeBSD 8.2 right now. I partitioned it and formatted it with EXT2 and adjusted the Inode size to 128, and backed up all of my data to it.

I did this because I'm getting awful performance with ZFS and I think I'm just going to switch over to Ubuntu or Debian (Cant use OI or Nexenta because their reorient pkg is broken and I can't seem to get it to compile without crashing on startup) and just use MDADM raid.

I guess my question is, will FreeBSD partitions/slices translate over fine to Linux?

# ? Oct 16, 2011 21:57

nitrogen: May 21, 2004; Oh, what's a 217°C difference between friends?

LamoTheKid posted:

So, this is a bit of an odd question.

I have an ESATA drive on FreeBSD 8.2 right now. I partitioned it and formatted it with EXT2 and adjusted the Inode size to 128, and backed up all of my data to it.

I did this because I'm getting awful performance with ZFS and I think I'm just going to switch over to Ubuntu or Debian (Cant use OI or Nexenta because their reorient pkg is broken and I can't seem to get it to compile without crashing on startup) and just use MDADM raid.

I guess my question is, will FreeBSD partitions/slices translate over fine to Linux?

MAke sure you have ufs support and it should work.
from what I remember, freebsd slices will look like extended partitions in Linux.

# ? Oct 16, 2011 22:10

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

systemd integration into the desktop would be limited entirely to the desktop session manager (i.e gnome-session or whatever), which would just make it better on Linux and the same as it was on operating systems which either don't have the equivalent of Linux cgroups or don't have the developer interest to implement it.

Which means that Solaris might get something similar, because they both have the kernel support and people paid to care about this stuff, while FreeBSD is still hosed because they can't even get somebody to care about making the X graphics drivers work.

pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 16, 2011

# ? Oct 16, 2011 22:15

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Who really uses graphics in BSD anyway?

# ? Oct 16, 2011 23:00

Marinmo: Jan 23, 2005; Prisoner #95H522 Augustus Hill

Zom Aur posted:

Either way, seems a lot of the more desktop oriented linux systems are moving over to systemd. Fedora has switched, opensuse is switching, it's in the arch package tree (though sysvinit is still default, same in debian). We'll see what happens.

Personally, I like it, but I also like pulseaudio, so I'm probably close to being "objectively wrong".

It's Poettering. Just like PA was a great, great idea in theory, systemd will probably fall short on the exact same points, namely implementation and transparency. PA loving sucked rear end (still does?) when it came out because in many many cases it broke something that, for most users, worked previously. And while most of the things were fixable in one way or another, no one wants to mess around with config files to get something as stupidly simple as sound. Systemd seems like, theoretically, a good idea too with many features added that has been long missing ... But Poettering is Poettering like history is history and this one is really going to have to prove itself.

# ? Oct 17, 2011 10:51

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

Marinmo posted:

It's Poettering. Just like PA was a great, great idea in theory, systemd will probably fall short on the exact same points, namely implementation and transparency. PA loving sucked rear end (still does?) when it came out because in many many cases it broke something that, for most users, worked previously. And while most of the things were fixable in one way or another, no one wants to mess around with config files to get something as stupidly simple as sound. Systemd seems like, theoretically, a good idea too with many features added that has been long missing ... But Poettering is Poettering like history is history and this one is really going to have to prove itself.

I've actually been using it for more than 6 months, and haven't ran into any major issues yet. I can't speak for everybody regarding how well the implementation or transparency works, but I know it supports starting DAEMONs the sysvinit way too (arch has a package for this that makes it parse rc.conf for DAEMONs, setting locales etc., I think fedora 15 already has something similar installed by default, which will be replaced by native systemd in F16). So worst case, you should be able to do everything as you would with sysvinit.

So yeah, so far, it's looking pretty good in practice too.

PA is something else. For some users, it helps with the shortcomings of alsa. For others, it just introduced another bucket of issues. I do believe most distros implemented it too soon though, it really wasn't a good drop-in solution until maybe a year ago. Still, it's given a lot of users a bad taste, and probably with good reason too.

Hopefully, this doesn't make the same mistakes.

But yeah, we'll see what happens. Either way, I suspect it's quite a long way until it's implemented on production servers.

# ? Oct 17, 2011 14:24

Goon Matchmaker: Oct 23, 2003; I play too much EVE-Online

My biggest gripe about systemd is the syntax for systemctl.

systemctl start sabnzbd.service

Why the hell is that the reverse of pretty much everything else out there? Why won't it accept arguments in both directions? :argh:

# ? Oct 17, 2011 18:23

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Goon Matchmaker posted:

My biggest gripe about systemd is the syntax for systemctl.

systemctl start sabnzbd.service

Why the hell is that the reverse of pretty much everything else out there? Why won't it accept arguments in both directions?

That's how SMF in Solaris does it. It's the future, embrace it.

# ? Oct 17, 2011 20:37

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

At least SMF can give you actual error messages. My biggest complaint with systemd (at least the way it's implemented on Fedora, and presumably RHEL7 at some point in the future) is that debugging output is pretty much worthless.

Let's say, hypothetically, Pacemaker. systemctl start pacemaker.service fails. It says to check systemctl status pacemaker.service, which tells me that... it failed. Helpful. If you're on the console, and the kernel isn't set to 'quiet', you might see something useful, but I won't be happy with systemd until they make it give me useful error messages without dissecting systemd scripts/sysconfig and putting the pieces together manually until I see why it failed.

# ? Oct 17, 2011 22:04

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

evol262 posted:

At least SMF can give you actual error messages. My biggest complaint with systemd (at least the way it's implemented on Fedora, and presumably RHEL7 at some point in the future) is that debugging output is pretty much worthless.

Let's say, hypothetically, Pacemaker. systemctl start pacemaker.service fails. It says to check systemctl status pacemaker.service, which tells me that... it failed. Helpful. If you're on the console, and the kernel isn't set to 'quiet', you might see something useful, but I won't be happy with systemd until they make it give me useful error messages without dissecting systemd scripts/sysconfig and putting the pieces together manually until I see why it failed.

SMF can be a pain for debugging because I guess we're all trying to figure out if we should log to STDOUT/STDERR (to be caught by SMF and put in the SMF log) or if we should be bone silent and dump everything into syslog (which for the life of me I've never been able to really figure out).

# ? Oct 18, 2011 00:22

Vulture Culture: Jul 14, 2003; I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

FISHMANPET posted:

SMF can be a pain for debugging because I guess we're all trying to figure out if we should log to STDOUT/STDERR (to be caught by SMF and put in the SMF log) or if we should be bone silent and dump everything into syslog (which for the life of me I've never been able to really figure out).

Log the most direct error/fault to the fault management facility and put all the diagnostic information in syslog where it belongs.

# ? Oct 18, 2011 02:57

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

Zom Aur posted:

PA is something else. For some users, it helps with the shortcomings of alsa. For others, it just introduced another bucket of issues. I do believe most distros implemented it too soon though, it really wasn't a good drop-in solution until maybe a year ago. Still, it's given a lot of users a bad taste, and probably with good reason too.

PA was absolutely miserable when I first saw it, but for what it's worth, I've had no problems with it for the past year or so - even constantly adding and removing USB microphones and bluetooth headsets and the like, which was a pain with ALSA.

# ? Oct 18, 2011 03:05

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

Supposedly a lot of the problems that PA had were a direct result of the ALSA drivers being terrible.

# ? Oct 18, 2011 04:01

Vulture Culture: Jul 14, 2003; I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

pseudorandom name posted:

Supposedly a lot of the problems that PA had were a direct result of the ALSA drivers being terrible.

In the same way that compositing revealed that every graphics driver was a piece of poo poo, I suppose.

# ? Oct 18, 2011 07:54

Wheelchair Stunts: Dec 17, 2005

FISHMANPET posted:

That's how SMF in Solaris does it. It's the future, embrace it.

While I have great admiration for Solaris, judging from what has been dribbling from Oracle's rear end in a top hat and the rats-leaving-the-boat that led to OpenSolaris/Illumos I'd be wary of talking about the future for such things. Also, what the gently caress is wrong with init.d. :stare:

# ? Oct 21, 2011 14:46

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Wheelchair Stunts posted:

While I have great admiration for Solaris, judging from what has been dribbling from Oracle's rear end in a top hat and the rats-leaving-the-boat that led to OpenSolaris/Illumos I'd be wary of talking about the future for such things. Also, what the gently caress is wrong with init.d.

init.d is stupid and just blindly runs start/stop/restart commands, whereas SMF (I don't know about others) is aware of the state of its processes. It also encapsulates STDOUT/STDERR of the process and puts it somewhere useful.

# ? Oct 21, 2011 14:58

Vulture Culture: Jul 14, 2003; I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

FISHMANPET posted:

init.d is stupid and just blindly runs start/stop/restart commands, whereas SMF (I don't know about others) is aware of the state of its processes. It also encapsulates STDOUT/STDERR of the process and puts it somewhere useful.

SysV init also does not properly track service dependencies and therefore cannot be parallelized.

# ? Oct 21, 2011 17:04

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

Goon Matchmaker posted:

My biggest gripe about systemd is the syntax for systemctl.

systemctl start sabnzbd.service

Why the hell is that the reverse of pretty much everything else out there? Why won't it accept arguments in both directions?

Well, FWIW, arch rc.d uses the same syntax.

I think it's because you can, in systemd at least, specify multiple services. So if you'd want to restart mysql, iptables and lighttpd you'd run systemctl restart mysql.service iptables.service lighttpd.service and it'd restart all of them, or if they weren't already running it just starts them as usual.

I don't know how useful it'd be, and I suppose it's quite possible implement it in reverse too (last argument given is the action to take).

Personally, I don't mind.

# ? Oct 21, 2011 19:50

Underflow: Apr 4, 2008; EGOMET MIHI IGNOSCO

I need to replace ye olde CRT I'm using for an all-round/odd jobs (nothing even remotely graphics-heavy) Slackware machine with an nVidia card, as well as (via splitter box and a VGA adapter) an Xbox 360. Can any of you recommend a sturdy no-hassle 1080 TFT that will work well under those conditions?

# ? Oct 22, 2011 08:55

Wheelchair Stunts: Dec 17, 2005

Misogynist posted:

SysV init also does not properly track service dependencies and therefore cannot be parallelized.

Oh no, not my *shudder* boot time.

# ? Oct 22, 2011 09:29

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

Wheelchair Stunts posted:

Oh no, not my *shudder* boot time.

As I understand it, it's not just about boot time. If you try starting something that needs syslog while syslog is still starting, it'll poo poo itself. It won't wait until syslog has started, since it doesn't know it needs to. E: If you try running it in parallel of course.

Normally, this particular example should never be an issue, but it shows the problem. Sysvinit can't handle this thing nicely. If you enable a daemon without its dependencies, it'll just crash.

Running poo poo in parallel is just a nice bonus, it's the tracking of dependencies that's the real issue.

# ? Oct 22, 2011 10:17

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

I have a WEIRD problem that I need a hand with. It might be VM related or networking related. See if anybody can pick something out.

I have a Debian squeeze machine set up as a Xen host. I run nothing but vanilla squeeze VMs in it and use the xen-create-image utility to make the VMs.

All VMs and the primary NIC of the host are on 10.4.0.0/24 with a simple bridge on the host side to give all the VMs network. I also have a second nic on the host in 10.2.0.0/24 that is not bridged to the VMs. Both interfaces run into my pfSense router (both LAN interfaces, obviously). My main PC is in the 10.4.0.0 subnet as well. All machines and VMs are assigned fixed IPs via DHCP.

I can SSH around all I want between the host and VMs but here's the weird part - I get problems accessing these web servers from inside the 10.4.0.0 LAN. However, if I do a NAT rule from the outside through pfSense to whatever VM i'm working on, I can access it just fine from the outside Internet, going to my WAN IP and the NAT port.

And here's the REALLY weird part: It only happens with dynamically generated pages. I can pull index.html's and test static HTML pages all day long. But as soon as I try to access, say, ruTorrent or nagios or anything that isn't static HTML, none of those sites/pages will load.

Is this some obscure weird PHP flag or something that i'm missing? I cannot explain why it's doing this at all and it's driving me nuts and I feel stupid as poo poo not being able to figure it out. I have disabled iptables on the host and confirmed it is not in play.

I'm happy to post whatever extra logs/info/data is needed to troubleshoot.

# ? Oct 22, 2011 16:07

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Is it because those other Pages are on different ports than 80?

# ? Oct 22, 2011 20:52

Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

Wheelchair Stunts posted:

Oh no, not my *shudder* boot time.

Fast boots are actually useful for some people (i.e. people with laptops). Until linux's suspend-to-disk has all of its kinks worked out I'd like a faster boot time.

# ? Oct 22, 2011 21:37

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

Well, gently caress me. I managed to break my openSuse 11.4 server.

I was trying to share an svn repository with samba, and I must have somehow reset or wiped out the password to my user and the root user with htpasswd. I am locked out of the machine. Nmb and smb are barfing up a ton of error messages when the machine boots, but I can't get it to boot to the command line, so I loose all the error messages. Ugh.

Any ideas? Should I just try to rescue it with a live CD?

# ? Oct 22, 2011 22:32

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# ? May 10, 2024 02:15

Vulture Culture: Jul 14, 2003; I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

hootimus posted:

Well, gently caress me. I managed to break my openSuse 11.4 server.

I was trying to share an svn repository with samba, and I must have somehow reset or wiped out the password to my user and the root user with htpasswd. I am locked out of the machine. Nmb and smb are barfing up a ton of error messages when the machine boots, but I can't get it to boot to the command line, so I loose all the error messages. Ugh.

Any ideas? Should I just try to rescue it with a live CD?

You just need to boot into single-user mode from your GRUB (boot loader) menu (which is not your BIOS) and reset the root password with passwd.

Get into the menu before your OS starts booting, select your operating system, type a to append startup parameters, then add the parameter single and hit Enter. You should be magically transported to a root shell.

# ? Oct 22, 2011 22:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Linux Questions Thread: a bunch of pitfalls, but technically it's possible

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