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Is facing someone with 10+ years more experience than you a common thing in judo competition?
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Oct 23, 2011 04:05
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Bangkero posted:Question for Sambo players - is closed guard practiced much in Sambo? Not a sambo guy but having somewhat of an interest in it. I would say, no, closed guard is generally not practiced much in Sambo. Most of their attacks come immediately after performing a throw or takedown. I want to say in competition, slamming from guard is legal for them. (I think it's also legal in Judo as well...) Really if someone lifts you up from closed guard, you should be letting go/opening guard immediately and trying something else. Holding onto closed guard in the air is just loving dumb. Even for a submission it is generally a pretty risky idea. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 04:21
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). Those guys had been training for over 10 years and were explosive as hell.
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dokomoy posted:Is facing someone with 10+ years more experience than you a common thing in judo competition? Once you hit Brown you have to compete in the all rank divisions. So yeah, that is pretty standard.
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Oct 23, 2011 04:27
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These are pretty small fry competitions where there isn't even a novice/advanced breakdown. Today I saw a former All-Japan Champion fight a white belt.
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Oct 23, 2011 04:38
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dokomoy posted:Is facing someone with 10+ years more experience than you a common thing in judo competition? Apparently. My friend faced off against Aaron Cohen a few years ago, he was only a brown belt at the time.
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Oct 23, 2011 05:11
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Guilty posted:edit: you have to be certifiable that the physics in this motion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUCih9zaqw8 is the same as the physics in this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nDTuFKqhafM#t=85s The little pivot slide Skarbowski does on his support foot is a really nice touch for getting the force and distance you want out of a teep. InspectorBloor, when you spar with the MT guys, who gets the upper hand in clinching exchanges, and with what techniques?
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Oct 23, 2011 07:52
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kimbo305 posted:The little pivot slide Skarbowski does on his support foot is a really nice touch for getting the force and distance you want out of a teep. it comes down to footwork. as WC, when you manage to apply pressure to your opponent's structure by stepping in close enough and sticking to the leg, it will likely work in wc's favor (i have a partner that steps on your toes intentionally as a flavor, it's really annoying). opening your cover too much (getting on the outside position with your hands) when trying to clinch is something that can go very wrong, you want to preserve very tight cover (you might have heard that WC will operate mainly via the centerline). i would not try to clinch as a MT player, unless you know that you can dominate the fight or you managed to get in a few good lowkicks. you want space to kick and not get rushed. on the WC side you can operate with simultaneous blocks & attacks like in the wooden dummy form. gum sao against the hip (or lower torso) combined with an open hand strike to the chin works well as an opener, you can also try quan sao, your tan hand will naturally form the attack, palmstrike, fist or shove, followed by the flurry of your choice. i prefer attacks that will unbalance the opponent in general, since i'm not that tall or heavy. the main problem is to close the distance from kicking to trapping range. i have a harder time with opponents that are mobile. if you manage to create space to operate, lowkicks and pushkicks are a real dealbreaker. first i mentioned that boxers can be a problem, we have some guys with excellent footwork and conditioning. Power Khan fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 10:38
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Guilty posted:You haven't trained enough in Muay Thai. A teep is not just with the heel. A left teep is a full body motion, heavily involving perfect hip motion, a good left arm swing, body twist, straight out, connecting with the heel, snapping the ankle to hit with the ball of the foot, pull out, and either set, or block and set. i can only ask you to read my post again. it doesn't state anything about the WC front kick (where there are at least 3 variations). which i might add that there is a similar tech in savate that you can find here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-_x0UPhalE&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLFC870223DA29ABC9). milo chagi = heel, teep = ball of the foot. the technique differs with mainly with what you hit. either heel or ball, my point is, that the technique of executing a pushkick, sidekick or roundhouse isn't that different throughout the arts. you always want hip motion, body twist. if the range of your definition involves calling a technique fundamentally different if it has another name, adds a little screw or hits with the wrist of your foot instead of the heel, yea, then i'm naturally wrong. the underlying movement of the action cannot be that different since most arts strive for a maximum of effect within the range of the limits of body structure. my point is that within this pattern, there is an optimum of what works, and therefore actions will be similar in a way. think of it as different kinds of animals that share the same medium like ocean creatures. the muskuloskeletal system strives towards energetic optimum and therefore you find that very different kinds of species share certain traits. in other words: fish don't have legs or wheels. at least not the ones that are sucessful in an evolutionary sense. and youtube isn't an optimal source of information Power Khan fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 10:59
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InspectorBloor posted:i can only ask you to read my post again. milo chagi = heel, teep = ball of the foot. the technique differs with mainly with what you hit. either heel or ball, my point is, that the technique of executing a pushkick, sidekick or roundhouse isn't that different throughout the arts. Just train more, you will see how wrong you are.
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Oct 23, 2011 11:21
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Guilty posted:Just train more, you will see how wrong you are. Great argument, thank you for clearing that up in a constructive way.
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Oct 23, 2011 11:30
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Guys I lost my first cage fight:( It went pretty fast, my opponent came in, I hit a leg kick he bear hugged me to the ground into half guard then eventually mount, I managed to sweep him over and ended up on top in guard but he got triangle position ifought it for about a minute working some strikes etc but his triangle sank in and it was either tap or nap...... I'm not dissapointed I fought as best as I could my opponent was a level 3 Krav Maga instructor or something....I don't know much about that martial art but apparently the match up was pretty much stacked in his favour ( to give you some idea I'm a BJJ white belt and a Thai kick boxer) it was an awesome night
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Oct 23, 2011 11:59
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Guilty posted:Just train more, you will see how wrong you are. sir, you beat my whole argumentation with this strike. Power Khan fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 12:15
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Gaz2k21 posted:Guys I lost my first cage fight:( Congrats on having the guts to step in there, man! Win or lose, it's an invaluable experience none the less. gunblade fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 12:35
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Soooooo, my first judo comp is in about 3 weeks (november 13) and I just can't wait for it, I'm so excited. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input on what I should do with my training until then? As far as real sports go : I currently lift weight 3x a week, do judo 2x, bjj once or twice, general conditioning 1x. Do I need to start going easy on the weightlifting during the last week? I really don't know how to approach this as I never participated in a real sport competition in my whole life.
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Oct 23, 2011 12:36
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niethan posted:Great argument, thank you for clearing that up in a constructive way. On the surface, he's right. Nearly all techniques look very very similar. But if you train in any martial art and get down to the small details of style and technique, he couldn't be more wrong. Consider just the roundhouse kick. Brazilian, Thai, and Kyokushin all have three very different round house kicks with a variety of results. Brazilian is known for angles, Thai is known for power, Kyokushin known for speed. Hell even within the Thai realm, it's separated to Dutch-Thai and the Thai kick. Saying that all martial arts are similar is like saying that all music is similar. In a way it is, but in a more fundamental way it's vastly different.
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Oct 23, 2011 12:37
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Guilty posted:On the surface, he's right. Nearly all techniques look very very similar. But if you train in any martial art and get down to the small details of style and technique, he couldn't be more wrong. that is what i said. it depends on the range of what you say where the difference beginns. if you narrow it down, ofc this statement that i made is wrong - but i spoke about the principle. you analogy with music is fitting, because at least here in the west it is based on 12 tones, and you can express all different sorts of genres with it, but it is still 12 tones.
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Oct 23, 2011 12:48
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InspectorBloor posted:. i would not try to clinch as a MT player, unless you know that you can dominate the fight or you managed to get in a few good lowkicks. you want space to kick and not get rushed. I'm surprised that MT fighters wouldn't be pretty adept in the clinch. They should have more training than others with entering and establishing a plum clinch and imposing control by moving the head around. Once a good plum clinch is set, it's hard to break because your posture is pretty much wrecked from all the weight the attacker is putting on your neck and from trying to wrest your balance away. Not to mention most of them will be used to eating a few strikes to really lock the plum up. Are knees to the head or body allowed in your mixed style sparring?
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Oct 23, 2011 14:09
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kimbo305 posted:I'm surprised that MT fighters wouldn't be pretty adept in the clinch. They should have more training than others with entering and establishing a plum clinch and imposing control by moving the head around. Once a good plum clinch is set, it's hard to break because your posture is pretty much wrecked from all the weight the attacker is putting on your neck and from trying to wrest your balance away. Not to mention most of them will be used to eating a few strikes to really lock the plum up. Are knees to the head or body allowed in your mixed style sparring? it is not that they aren't adept at it, it is the range that you operate here, which is where alot of wc techs take place. Also, posture is a good point, the layed back stance makes it harder to get grabbed around the neck (i know, it looks silly), you will also have to get out his hands from the center line. the stance is more stable than it looks, but that's definitely no guarantee that you won't get pulled down if getting grabbed properly. setting up the clinch is the main problem, if you move to grab the head or neck without preparing your opponent up properly, your middle is open at close range (which is usually a bad thing, even for a short time). you can't overestimate open palm strikes to the chin combined with the low push block to the hip in that situation. it's just not the strike, but also the weight of the body behind that, that comes from the wc stance with the hips rolled up. it is hard to explain, you will understand once you felt it. you train this defense explicitely in the wooden dummy form to no end. sadly, this is all very theoretical, but i recommend to try this scenario if you know somebody who is experienced at wc. it will serve better than me trying to explain, where you need to feel (not in a negative sense). knees to the head and body are allowed here. whatever you agree on. for some reason you don't see it too often. Power Khan fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 15:31
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InspectorBloor posted:it is not that they aren't adept at it, it is the range that you operate here, which is where alot of wc techs take place. sorry man, this all sounds like really basic stuff. "Roll your hips" and "put your body behind your strikes" are things my college-kid wrestling coach told me the day he subbed in for a boxing class. You're being pretty relaxed, but a lot of what you are saying isn't particularly special to a specific martial art. That being said, I appreciate you sticking it out and offering your experiences.
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Oct 23, 2011 17:05
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KingColliwog posted:Soooooo, The most important thing to do for your first tournament is formulate a gameplan(this is true of pretty much all martial arts or competitions for that matter). I don't know what exactly that entails for judo but you want to know what grips your looking for as well as the throws your looking for(and maybe how to respond to your opponents most common counters to your throws) and then spend as much time as possible between now and then drilling that stuff. Just by going in there with a plan you're going to have a huge advantage against a lot of guys(at least assuming your entering in the white belt division and not fighting guys who have been competing longer than you've been training =/ ) As far as lifting goes, I'd feel comfortable lifting pretty hard on Tuesday or lighter on Wednesday(assuming I was competing on Sunday). But that's personal preference, I know some guys who stop lifting a week out and others who lift hard two days before they compete. Finally, if you've never competed before I think doing a lot of visualization and positive reinforcement stuff between now and then will help you manage the nerves that you're going to feel the day of the tournament.
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Oct 23, 2011 17:27
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dokomoy posted:The most important thing to do for your first tournament is formulate a gameplan(this is true of pretty much all martial arts or competitions for that matter). I don't know what exactly that entails for judo but you want to know what grips your looking for as well as the throws your looking for(and maybe how to respond to your opponents most common counters to your throws) and then spend as much time as possible between now and then drilling that stuff. Just by going in there with a plan you're going to have a huge advantage against a lot of guys(at least assuming your entering in the white belt division and not fighting guys who have been competing longer than you've been training =/ ) First, thanks for your input. I'll be entering the green belt and blue belt division theorically. If there's not enough people they are going to expand the weight classes, if that's not good enough they'll expand the belt classes. So it's really hard to tell what level other guys are going to be at. They might come from some club that gives promotion really fast and I own their asses or they can be guys that are taking the competition classes at their dojo and just never bothered to go up in rank because once your reach brown you're stuck with all the guys who started doing judo at 5 years old. So ok, I'm going to try and build a plan. I already have a few favorite throws that I'm drilling constantly (especially in randori) as well as a few grips I've been working on. I'll try to focus on those even more for the next training sessions. Gonna visualize myself doing them too. The comp is on sunday. I was thinking of lifting regularly on monday but wasn't sure about wednesday. I don't think I'd still be sore by sunday even if I went hard, but it's hard to know for sure. Then on thursday I'd probably skip the BJJ and just do my two judo classes. Do you guys usually prefer doing a lot of randori just before a comp or doing more drilling? Then friday would either be off or I'd go to BJJ (doing only technical drills) or may be go for a light jog since I tend to feel like poo poo if I don't do sports at all for a few days. Saturday would be completely off. Yeah nerves are definitely going to be a part of this haha, i'm already kind of nervous and I don't know how I'll feel/perform at all. Usually I'm really good at doing physical stuff under pressure but this is going to be so different...
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Oct 23, 2011 18:05
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Fontoyn posted:sorry man, this all sounds like really basic stuff. "Roll your hips" and "put your body behind your strikes" are things my college-kid wrestling coach told me the day he subbed in for a boxing class. thank you. that's my failure to explain what there really is about the differences. it is basic stuff, true enough, but the way it is played in wc differs from anything that i trained previously. i can't tell you, i can just point out that it is different and yet, there are so many things similar. i tried to find something meaningful that might explain what i mean or give you an impression. above i mentioned free form chi sao, like here. this is not the combat application, you also won't feel the pressure that is behind there and how easy it is to get thrown off balance while watching - but maybe you see where the idea goes. (don't mind the pornmusic in the clip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvnWHILMQM4&feature=related now combat application is something else, i haven't found anything serious on the net yet. and there is also an intense ammount of bullshit floating around. when it comes to wc, don't think of it that one lineage represents the art as a whole. the differences are huge.
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Oct 23, 2011 18:08
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Fontoyn posted:sorry man, this all sounds like really basic stuff. "Roll your hips" and "put your body behind your strikes" are things my college-kid wrestling coach told me the day he subbed in for a boxing class.
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Oct 23, 2011 18:10
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dokomoy posted:The most important thing to do for your first tournament is formulate a gameplan(this is true of pretty much all martial arts or competitions for that matter). I don't know what exactly that entails for judo but you want to know what grips your looking for as well as the throws your looking for(and maybe how to respond to your opponents most common counters to your throws) and then spend as much time as possible between now and then drilling that stuff. Just by going in there with a plan you're going to have a huge advantage against a lot of guys(at least assuming your entering in the white belt division and not fighting guys who have been competing longer than you've been training =/ ) This is really the best advice for your first tournament. Though you probably aren't at the point where you'll have multiple options in your gameplan for counters, combos, etc. Pick one, or at most two throws that you want to hit at the tournament and focus on them. Going into the match with a clear plan of "I am going to hit my O-Soto" or whatever your favorite throw is will help you stay focused and give you something to strive towards during the match. How'd you get to green without competing at all? Unlucky injuries or something? Thoguh fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 18:13
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Thoguh posted:This is really the best advice for your first tournament. Though you probably aren't at the point where you'll have multiple options in your gameplan for counters, combos, etc. Pick one, or at most two throws that you want to hit at the tournament and focus on them. Going into the match with a clear plan of "I am going to hit my O-Soto" or whatever your favorite throw is will help you stay focused and give you something to strive towards during the match. Ok, my game in randori is usually : get grip I like, use one of the following techniques : Tani Otoshi, Kouchi Gari, Harai goshi or uchi mata (usually harai goshi, but I'm getting some success with my uchi mata lately). If I need to slim it down even more, tani otoshi and kouchi gari are by far my best throws in randori. Yep, I had planned to compete for 2-3 years and I always got injured before the comp. Right now I only have a small case of shoulder tendenitis so I'm really touching wood. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 18:34
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InspectorBloor posted:it is not that they aren't adept at it, it is the range that you operate here, which is where alot of wc techs take place. If you can strike to the chin in what you think is a 'clinch' then your Muay Thai fighter is a beginner. ANY clincher will never allow any usable distance between the bodies.
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Oct 23, 2011 20:19
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Guilty posted:If you can strike to the chin in what you think is a 'clinch' then your Muay Thai fighter is a beginner. ANY clincher will never allow any usable distance between the bodies. Some elbow techniques could be used before the clinch was locked up, but it shouldn't be anything the Thai boxers don't expect. They know that both fighters are looking to get to the inside at all times, and will be ready for that. They know the clinchee will stand up and rear back to avoid getting all the weight of the plum set down on their neck. About the only technique that isn't generally used would be a low-line foot to the shin to knock their base off balance. I'd like to see some video of this, if you have it, InspectorBloor.
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Oct 23, 2011 20:28
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Gaz2k21 posted:Guys I lost my first cage fight:( "There ain't no losers in the cage" - Rampage Jackson
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Oct 24, 2011 00:37
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Gaz2k21 posted:Guys I lost my first cage fight:( Chiming in that just being willing to step into the cage puts you ahead of 99.9% of people around. Sorry to hear you lost but Congrats on taking your first fight.
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Oct 24, 2011 01:17
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Thoguh posted:just being willing to step into the cage puts you ahead of 99.9% of people around. Agreed
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Oct 24, 2011 01:21
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Gaz2k21 posted:Guys I lost my first cage fight:( Congrats man on your first fight! Even if it didn't go your way, getting a sweep from mount in a fight is pretty sweet. Nicely done. Senor P. posted:Not a sambo guy but having somewhat of an interest in it. I would say, no, closed guard is generally not practiced much in Sambo. Most of their attacks come immediately after performing a throw or takedown. I want to say in competition, slamming from guard is legal for them. (I think it's also legal in Judo as well...) thanks, yeah - slamming is illegal when in guard in judo but I totally agree with you about hanging on to closed guard mid-air. You can bet your rear end I would have opened up if I was anywhere close to past his knees. Why is it risky to go for a submission in guard? (is it a position before submission thing?)
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Oct 24, 2011 02:38
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Because if you go for a submission while in the air and you screw up and fall off now you're on the bottom in a probably bad position. If you just let go of the guard and get on your feet when they lift you up you're at least back in a neutral position.
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Oct 24, 2011 04:39
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Bangkero posted:Congrats man on your first fight! Even if it didn't go your way, getting a sweep from mount in a fight is pretty sweet. Nicely done. A couple of things (specifically from midair, closed guard) 1. The guy could slam you if your submission and setup isn't good enough. 2. Even if he doesn't slam you, you may end up knocking your head on the ground and going out from a concussion. (Your opponent may stumble or fall over, or you can't hold the position.) 3. For me I think this is dumb from a self defense and even a sport fight point of view. Leaving your head dangling to get smashed on something is just too much of a risk for me. From a purely sport perspective, it is acceptable if you're a BJJ/Judo/Wrestler guy who plans on fighting only other BJJ/Judo/Wrestler guys where they may behave in a certain fashion. Ideally in competitions everyone knows the rules and everyone adheres to them. However if you want to train and compete against multiple people in multiple venues (wrestlers, judoka, sambists, MMA fighters, etc) You should think more along the lines of "What is this person physically capable of doing and how should I protect myself from that?" Senor P. fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 06:13
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Why would you let go if they were going to pick you up to slam you? Lock up the leg to prevent them standing, sweep to mount/half guard, transition to de la Riva/x-guard...so many options.
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Oct 24, 2011 07:40
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Meat Effete posted:Why would you let go if they were going to pick you up to slam you? Lock up the leg to prevent them standing, sweep to mount/half guard, transition to de la Riva/x-guard...so many options. Hopefully they're not picking you up past a foot or so off the ground. Because of how many options the guy on bottom has, I've always been taught to go for much shorter, faster slams to transition.
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Oct 24, 2011 13:49
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Senor P. posted:A couple of things (specifically from midair, closed guard) Ah, sorry I thought you meant trying for a submission from guard in general. But yeah, good reasons for me not to stubbornly keep hanging on for life after getting picked up, especially as a self-defense point of view. I've rolled against BJJers and wrestlers who visit the club, but this was a first time against a sambo guy so it was cool experience. Hopefully I'll get more chances to cross train grapple with other styles. Meat Effete posted:Why would you let go if they were going to pick you up to slam you? Lock up the leg to prevent them standing, sweep to mount/half guard, transition to de la Riva/x-guard...so many options.
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Oct 24, 2011 14:11
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Fontoyn posted:Hopefully they're not picking you up past a foot or so off the ground. Because of how many options the guy on bottom has, I've always been taught to go for much shorter, faster slams to transition. He should be hooking your leg before he's up any whole feet in the air. I'll take a 4-6" slam to triangle you to sleep, if I can't sweep you from being hoisted up that much (which I 90% likely, can). And I'm not even good. But yeah, if someone raises you up more than a few inches, you should abandon guard and go for something else, like maybe a double leg or something if they try to raise you to the roof. Maet effet listed a few options.
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Oct 24, 2011 15:59
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Is No Kubi Nage legal in Judo comps? I'd be playing under IJF rules if it makes a difference. Some guy at my gym did it against me during his grading for some reason and instead of getting his whole arm around my neck, his wrist hit my jaw like a badly aimed bolo I guess, and I went dizzy and fell to the mat for a sec. Obv, the hit to the jaw isn't legal, but its a legit technique right? My question is, if I can't get the grip I want I could just go for the wrap around the neck?
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Oct 25, 2011 00:07
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Nierbo posted:Is No Kubi Nage legal in Judo comps? I'd be playing under IJF rules if it makes a difference. They are doing no gi. The no gi equivalent of the standard Judo grip is exactly what they are doing, with the hand on the back of the head/neck. Regardless though, that is perfectly legal, people just don't use it because it is much more effective to grip the collar. I'm not familiar with that throw in particular but I don't see anything remotely illegal about it. I don't think it would work very well with a gi though, since you don't have a very good grip on the neck if the guy drops his weight and refuses to go over.
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Oct 25, 2011 01:30
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Thoguh posted:They are doing no gi. The no gi equivalent of the standard Judo grip is exactly what they are doing, with the hand on the back of the head/neck. Regardless though, that is perfectly legal, people just don't use it because it is much more effective to grip the collar. I'm not familiar with that throw in particular but I don't see anything remotely illegal about it. I don't think it would work very well with a gi though, since you don't have a very good grip on the neck if the guy drops his weight and refuses to go over.
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Oct 25, 2011 04:12
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