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PT6A posted:Excellent stuff. I've always wondered why no one's done a diesel-electric car, considering it's commonly used for trains and probably other things I'm not aware of (size/weight issues, maybe?). Having a diesel generator that can be kept at its most efficient point and using electric to actually drive the wheels seems like a no-brainer to me, but what do I know? Too expensive. All hybrids from all carmakers make up ~2% of the US market, and 90% of that 2% is Prius. Diesel passenger cars are a tiny niche and will soon be made illegal anyway. The Republicans trying to disband the EPA is the only reason why there are even any diesel passenger vehicles sold at all. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/10/will-chevys-cruze-diesel-be-a-game-changer-lutz-thinks-not/#more-415344 If very few people are willing to pay the extra for either a diesel or a hybrid, who is going to pay the premium for both just to eke out a minor improvement? Maybe one day the F350 Superduty/Sierra 3500HD will be big enough that they will just start dropping locomotive drivetrains in. 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 22:22
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Right, but even with emissions regulations, allowing the diesel to operate at maximum efficiency constantly will make it, quite obviously, more efficient than if it had to actually power the wheels. Of course, then you have the loss of efficiency due to generating electric power... well, it's an interesting idea at least.
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Oct 21, 2011 22:46
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Don't miss this sentence though. "It is hoped that the mix of diesel torque and electric motor will deliver a 0-62mph time of under five seconds, yet cut CO2 emissions to less than 200g/km." It's not going to be a diesel electric hybrid in the train sense, it's going to be a conventional hybrid with the engine linked to the drivetrain. The fact that they are referring to the torque of a diesel gives it away. But, a diesel electric hybrid in a traditional hybrid system still makes sense as diesels are great at highway economy.
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Oct 21, 2011 22:53
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Well I've been waiting to hear if the Hyundai Veloster would be getting more power and it looks like it'll be getting a turbo good for 204-hp and 195 lbft torque. I've only bought American cars so far but this'll probably be on my short list of new cars to test drive next year. I wish the Focus would get something around that power range.
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Oct 24, 2011 04:12
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bull3964 posted:Don't miss this sentence though. For some stupid reason that sentence conjures up images in my head of the diesel engine acting almost like a turbocharger for the electric one. I'm interested to see how they end up doing it. rarbatrol fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 04:28
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davebo posted:I wish the Focus would get something around that power range. Wish no more: http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-shows/frankfurt/2012-ford-focus-st
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Oct 24, 2011 04:39
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Focus Sanitary Towel strikes again!
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Oct 24, 2011 08:49
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So this past weekend my wife and I test drove a bunch of new small cars. Here's my quick report (I should note I'm 6'1" and 270lbs so I'm a big guy which makes a difference testing small cars): Honda Fit: The dealer didn't have a 2012 Fit in stock but we drove a 2010 Fit. This was my wife and I's previous favorite before testing which was why we were so disappointed. You could really hear the engine and hear it struggle. Also, there was a lot of road noise and it was a pretty rough ride. However, nothing matches it's versatility and we both love the look/design. I've heard they've added more sound proofing to the 2012 model but it really showed it age compared to the others we tested. Ford Fiesta: The only thing we liked about the Fiesta was how quiet and smooth the ride was but that was only in comparison to the Fit. It also had a decent amount of power and handled well. Beyond that, we disliked most everything else. Poor cargo room that requires you to remove headrests to fold the back seat down. Poor legroom and a really claustrophobic feel inside. Our least favorite. Hyundai Accent: We wanted to test the hatchback version but they only had a sedan in stock. Still, the sedan had a nicely equipped and comfortable space inside and it really ran smooth. It was also very quiet and the engine was quite good (good power and peppy). Power was better than everything except for the Chevy and the Kia. Combined with the warranty, gas mileage, and cost, this was our pick for best overall. Chevrolet Sonic: We were most interested to try the Sonic because I loved the styling of the hatchback most out of all the cars we tested. Once we drove it, it was our favorite for driving. It was quiet and smooth but the engine really had that "American" sound to it and had really good power. My wife, who disliked the car when looking at it on the web, really fell in love with it. It also had good cargo room, comfy seats, and some really well thought out interior spaces. The only things we didn't like was the gas mileage (on par with the Fit but couldn't match the Hyundai/Kia) and the warranty (again, Hyundai/Kia advantage). If Chevy could match that, we'd take the Sonic in a heartbeat. It's also a bit more expensive ($1000-1500 more) than a comparable Accent which hurt it as well. Kia Rio: This was the newest car we tested having only just gone on sale at the beginning of this month. We tested an SX sport model. Our first impression was how much interior room we had. I'd say it was the roomiest of all the cars. As for handling/engine power, I'd say it had a slight edge on the Accent and Sonic but that may have been the sport trim versus the more base trims on the others. Overall, it was a solid small car with great gas mileage and a great warranty. I don't think it wowed us as much as the Sonic and Accent did but I wouldn't turn it down. TL;DR: We liked the Sonic the most but its disappointing gas mileage and lesser warranty help the Accent edge it out for our favorite status. The Rio came up close behind with the Fit further back and the Fiesta coming up last.
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Oct 24, 2011 15:41
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I can't tell exactly what your priorities are, but my wife and I shopped the same segment and ended up with a Mazda2. We bought it primarily for its handling prowess, but I had to be willing to deal with the 100hp 1.5L engine. It does sport the lowest curb weight of anything this side of an Elise, which helps, but it's not fast. It's a cousin to the Fiesta, has a similarly comfortable and quiet ride, but the cockpit seems roomier. Cargo space won't be much better, but you don't need to remove the headrests to fold the seats, as their design allows them to collapse rather low. If handling is a priority, the Mazda2 rules the segment. Tossable, great steering feel, minimal understeer... hell, I can get lift oversteer out of it. It reminds me of an underpowered Neon with a shorter wheelbase. Just throwing this out there because I feel it's oft-neglected in the subcompact comparisons.
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Oct 24, 2011 16:34
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sliderule posted:If handling is a priority, the Mazda2 rules the segment. Tossable, great steering feel, minimal understeer... hell, I can get lift oversteer out of it. It reminds me of an underpowered Neon with a shorter wheelbase.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:04
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Thwomp posted:So this past weekend my wife and I test drove a bunch of new small cars. Here's my quick report (I should note I'm 6'1" and 270lbs so I'm a big guy which makes a difference testing small cars): If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious why you didn't look at the Nissan Versa as well. I have the 2011 HB and it's quiet, roomy, very comfortable, zippy, and gets very decent mileage.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:09
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I should've stated that we were looking for a small commuter car so handling/performance came second to gas mileage/reliability/cargo room. The Versa wasn't on the list because my sister has a 2011 Versa HB so we're pretty familiar with it. I never found it particularly zippy and while it was very roomy, was pretty bland when it came to looks and interior quality. There's just something about it that doesn't really grab us. As to the Mazda2, I checked one out at the Chicago Auto Show earlier this year. While it certainly seems to have sportiness and handling down, I felt cramped in it (hard getting in and out, not enough legroom) and cargo room wasn't the greatest. I can see how it might be overlooked since I hardly see any 2s out on the road but if handling or sportiness was a priority, I would've tested it. Edit: Dave, Inc. - Dodge has got nothing really in this segment. The Caliber was more Compact than sub-compact but sucked even in that. However, whatever they are planning to debut after the new year to replace the Caliber may be something worth looking at. It's going to be some Fiat-based compact Dodge. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 17:22
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Feature for feature, what areas specifically does the Rio drop to the Sonic? You said the interior layout was really good in the Sonic, does that mean they're not quite as good in the Rio?
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Oct 24, 2011 17:34
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How did the Chevy Aveo suddenly become acceptable?
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Oct 24, 2011 17:45
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Edit^^^ I have no idea but this wasn't an Aveo. The Rio has a nice interior. I liked the gauge clusters as it had a Mini/Fiat feel to it. It was easy to reach everything and it even had these neat little tab buttons for heat/ac controls. I think the Sonic had it better due to the overall layout. The Sonic's center console had a more verticle layout whereas the Rio's a more horizontal and an extension of the gauge cluster. Plus, the Sonic's "gauge cluster", if you can call it that, was much better than I expected. It was very clear to read and everything was presented right there without being too cluttered. I expected it to be too small and make the overall dashboard look weird but I was really surprised. It really does have that motorcycle feel to it. The Sonic also had more of those little things you'd expect from...a Honda I suppose. Cubbies on both sides of the radio console. A card slot for quick insurance/registration card access. A spot on the top dash for a toll transponder. Little stuff like that was unexpected and the Rio didn't quite match that level of thoughtfulness. I'd have to say the Sonic's interior was more...dynamic I suppose. That's not a knock again the Rio since it was really nice. Leagues above most other small subcompacts. I just felt the Sonic's was better.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:49
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Matlock posted:How did the Chevy Aveo suddenly become acceptable? It's not an Aveo anymore--the Sonic is getting great reviews: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/23/2012-chevrolet-sonic-first-drive-review/
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Oct 24, 2011 17:51
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kimbo305 posted:Wish no more: No I knew about that a while ago, and I am still waiting for mileage information to be released, but I don't consider 250hp the same general range as 200hp. For just a daily driver that hits a lot of stop lights and traffic, 250hp and a 6 speed is a little overkill. I'd rather have the normal DSG but with about 200hp, if Ford wants to offer something like that. Then with the ST you run into the issue of how much are they going to end up charging me for a premium Focus? But either way I need to get to some dealerships with a tape measure to figure out if the Veloster or Focus would even fit all my gear for work.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:58
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what model was the sonic you drove? I am really interested in test driving the 1.4t w/ 6 speed.
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Oct 24, 2011 23:02
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While we're talking smaller GMs: http://blog.caranddriver.com/breaking-chevrolet-finally-confirms-new-colorado-pickup-for-u-s/ New US market Chevy Colorado is coming, might look like this: 
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Oct 25, 2011 00:07
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Why would you slap a Malibu front end on a truck?
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Oct 25, 2011 00:21
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Cream_Filling posted:While we're talking smaller GMs: What is the point of this market segment?
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Oct 25, 2011 00:27
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What is the point of the Civic? Everyone could just drive an Accord instead. Different sized vehicles suit different people.
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Oct 25, 2011 00:31
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quote:Edit: Dave, Inc. - Dodge has got nothing really in this segment. The Caliber was more Compact than sub-compact but sucked even in that. However, whatever they are planning to debut after the new year to replace the Caliber may be something worth looking at. It's going to be some Fiat-based compact Dodge. Well there is the Fiat 500. Most marques don't have one, VW doesn't, Subaru doesn't, Ford didn't until this year. there's really not much of a market for these cars in North America. Mistayke posted:If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious why you didn't look at the Nissan Versa as well. I have the 2011 HB and it's quiet, roomy, very comfortable, zippy, and gets very decent mileage. The Versa gets like a 2/5 star side impact rating, it's about on par with a Ford Ranger and less safe than many Chinese cars. That's why it's so cheap - It's a product intended for third world markets. There's also the Kia Soul, new 2012 Toyota Yaris, and the small Scion (xD?) you get over there.
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Oct 25, 2011 00:37
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Throatwarbler posted:The Versa gets like a 2/5 star side impact rating, it's about on par with a Ford Ranger and less safe than many Chinese cars. That's why it's so cheap - It's a product intended for third world markets. The new one should be a lot better, at least the hatch version (apparently they're doing something weird with the sedan)
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Oct 25, 2011 00:41
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angryhampster posted:What is the point of this market segment? 2.5 and 2.8L turbodiesels. I kid, btw, that will never happen in the US.
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Oct 25, 2011 00:42
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The front of that colorado is terrible. The australian one i think looked ok last I checked. The chevy one reminds me of the lady in the black hole sound music video with her lips.
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Oct 25, 2011 00:54
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I'll bet the Holden version ends up looking close to the same.
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Oct 25, 2011 00:57
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adorai posted:what model was the sonic you drove? I am really interested in test driving the 1.4t w/ 6 speed. We drove the 2LT with the 1.8. I can't really say about the 1.4t.
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Oct 25, 2011 02:40
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Elwood P. Dowd posted:Why would you slap a Malibu front end on a truck? Actually, the extended cab version looked exactly like they stuck a Sonic body on a frame and put a bed behind the hatch.
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Oct 25, 2011 02:48
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kimbo305 posted:Wish no more: I think I'm going to trade in my speed6 towards this when it hits stateside.
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Oct 25, 2011 02:53
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Yeah, I'm eyeing it as a replacement for my Si too. I may even go full on nuts and get it in Tangerine Scream.
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Oct 25, 2011 03:02
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Rhyno posted:I think I'm going to trade in my speed6 towards this when it hits stateside. If they can price the ST competively in the same way they price the mustang V6, I would be very open to buying a FWD turbo 5-door.
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Oct 25, 2011 03:10
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Crustashio posted:If they can price the ST competively in the same way they price the mustang V6, I would be very open to buying a FWD turbo 5-door. My Speed6 has the Mazda AWD system where it's FWD until it needs otherwise so it won't be too different to me. My car has 274hp, the ST has 247hp and it's a given the aftermarket will be fantastic for the car. Not that it's horrible for the MS6 but power adding options and suspension upgrade choices are somewhat limited, especially when compared to Mitsubishi and Subaru. Is there any solid pricing on them yet? Other than guesses?
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Oct 25, 2011 03:28
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Rhyno posted:My Speed6 has the Mazda AWD system where it's FWD until it needs otherwise so it won't be too different to me. It will be different though. Go and drive an MS3 and compare to your 6
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Oct 25, 2011 03:30
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dissss posted:It will be different though. Go and drive an MS3 and compare to your 6 I have and the differences don't bother me. Now I have yet to flog it through ice and snow so I'm sure that will make all the difference.
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Oct 25, 2011 03:37
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dissss posted:I'll bet the Holden version ends up looking close to the same. I'd drive it. Has the 3.6L v6 as an option http://www.holden.com.au/vehicles/colorado
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Oct 25, 2011 04:35
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Thats the old model. The new one will look different
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Oct 25, 2011 07:19
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Throatwarbler posted:The Versa gets like a 2/5 star side impact rating, it's about on par with a Ford Ranger and less safe than many Chinese cars. That's why it's so cheap - It's a product intended for third world markets. I think you're wrong comparing it to a Chinese car and third world markets. It's only because they changed the criteria recently, and the Versa did quite well under the old system prior to 2011 garnering 4 stars across the board. http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/1990-2010+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=5814 Safercar.gov is an arm of the NHTSA, and the link is to the older system prior to 2011. The 2011 version was based on and built under the old safety system and changed little from the 2010 model, and did quite well. Mistayke fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Oct 25, 2011 |
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Oct 25, 2011 09:29
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Christobevii3 posted:The front of that colorado is terrible. The australian one i think looked ok last I checked. The chevy one reminds me of the lady in the black hole sound music video with her lips. The article from before talked about how the target market likes its small trucks to be more like cars, and how the front end was consciously designed to look similar to a Malibu because apparently they all want utes in Thailand or something. It's possible that the front clip will be butched up for other markets.
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Oct 25, 2011 16:26
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This is sorta the industry commentary thread. Help me out with this -- what is the exact ownership situation between VW and Porsche, and the German government? I think my confusion is over the 3 or 4 involved entities that have Porsche in their name.
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Oct 25, 2011 20:20
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