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BigGayLogan posted:And for my IUD update, I got a prescription for Vicodin, but I won't be able to pick it up until after my appointment. Instead I learned they're gonna give me a shot up there to numb things up and make insertion a little easier. I am cringing at the mere thought. But it's just one day of discomfort for 5 years of protection and hopefully no periods. This better be worth it. Tell me if it's worth it. I'm on my second Implanon and loving it.
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Oct 20, 2011 10:03
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Maybe I have semi-high pain tolerance from walking into poo poo all the time, or something, but based on my experience I wouldn't say a vicodin afterwards was necessary, or even anesthetic necessarily. It hurt like a bitch during the actual insertion, but after that a heating pad & ibuprofen were more than good enough. Obviously everyone's experience is different, I guess... If anyone's on the fence, don't let the  factor of having a stick put up your cervix scare you off. It's 20 minutes of discomfort (and perhaps only 5 of actual OW HEY OW) for 5 years of lighter periods and no babies.  mirena
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Oct 20, 2011 15:45
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Eggplant Wizard posted:Maybe I have semi-high pain tolerance from walking into poo poo all the time, or something, but based on my experience I wouldn't say a vicodin afterwards was necessary, or even anesthetic necessarily. It hurt like a bitch during the actual insertion, but after that a heating pad & ibuprofen were more than good enough. Obviously everyone's experience is different, I guess... I asked for Vicodin mainly because I want to be in little pain as possible. When I had my wisdom teeth removed in 2006, I was given Vicodin and made an amazingly fast and painless recovery, despite hearing several horror stories from others that just never happened with me (face swelling, dry sockets, bleeding for more than the first hour, etc). So maybe getting a foreign object shoved up my uterus won't be so bad for me. Plus hey, Vicodin! Edit: fork bomb posted:Tell me if it's worth it. I'm on my second Implanon and loving it. Absolutely. In addition to these pre-appointment updates I will definitely post a trip report once I actually get my Mirena.
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Oct 20, 2011 17:40
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I haven't actually posted in this thread, but reading through this over the past month and going to iud-divas led me to get the Mirena on Monday. Thank you ladies! BigGayLogan, I want to say that I'm the biggest baby on earth. I've literally gone from being a blood donor and someone who would dream b-class splatter films for a year (don't ask) to someone who faints when I have to give blood and turns white when blood and gore is discussed. However, despite reading all the horror stories about the insertion, I honestly have to say that it was about 175 times less horrifying than I had imagined. I was given misoprostol to shove up there four hours before and took 0.5mg of Xanax (I was really scared!) and 100mg of diclofenac (a leftover from getting my wisdom tooth out) about 45mins before. The insertion was nothing. The procedure took maybe three minutes, out of that the whole poking (ha) was maybe 20 seconds altogether. The sounding was by far the worst, it wasn't even pain, just the feeling that NO ONE should pinch you in the holiest of places. The sound kickstarted the cramps, but after that I didn't even feel the actual IUD go in. It was over way fast. I'm wondering if it was mostly the Xanax, because it did take the edge off being nervous and tense. I mean, if you've got Vicodin, you should be good to go. And concentrating on breathing helps immensely. Later, a hot water bottle is the best thing. Get some good films and have a lie-in. And feel like a viking woman! e:grmr Menschsein fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Oct 20, 2011 |
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Oct 20, 2011 23:41
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Menschsein posted:I haven't actually posted in this thread, but reading through this over the past month and going to iud-divas led me to get the Mirena on Monday. Thank you ladies! Oh yeah, I'm totally prepared. As mentioned earlier on the previous page I requested to take the next day off from work and I have a laptop full of games and Netflix. Let's do this! 
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Oct 21, 2011 02:22
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My girlfriend has been using combined hormonal pills since spring without any severe side effects, but she has now suddenly had two migraine attacks in one week, with some visual symptoms. We're kinda worried and will contact a doctor anyway, but is it likely that the pills are the cause, so long after using them just fine? Also, I've always heard stuff about migraines being a sign that you should get off combined hormonal pills, but as far as I understand progestin-only pills would still be a possibility. Is this correct? TURTLE SLUT fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 17:54
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New guy (finally my libido came back after coming off the pill a few months ago), so new contracption needed. I really wanted the copper coil, finally got the cohones to get it put in... and the doctor couldn't get the thing in AT ALL. She's done the procedure plenty of times, but she said it just wasn't gonna happen for me and she didn't want to damage my uterus (fair enough, I don't want that either). I'm pretty gutted because it means back to hormones. She's recommended the implant and said if it effects me too much, the hormonal symptoms disappear almost straight away after it's removed. Is this true? I can't keep taking 4+ months out of my life trying different hormones.
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Oct 21, 2011 18:31
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Cukel posted:My girlfriend has been using combined hormonal pills since spring without any severe side effects, but she has now suddenly had two migraine attacks in one week, with some visual symptoms. We're kinda worried and will contact a doctor anyway, but is it likely that the pills are the cause, so long after using them just fine? Has she had migraine headaches before? If so, is she possibly getting exposed to any of her usual triggers? Hormonal contraceptives aren't associated with an increase in migraines in the general population, though they can be a trigger for individual women. I would think that since your girlfriend has been taking it for a few months, she should have started getting the migraines earlier than this if they were caused by the pills, though you can't really say for sure yet. The reason that we recommending not taking estrogen-containing contraceptives when a woman has migraines with aura (like your girlfriend's visual symptoms) is because the two are associated with an increased risk of stroke, heart attack and death, so together they increase the risk further. She should bring this up to her doctor. And yes, all progestin-containing contraceptives are still on the table for her.
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Oct 21, 2011 19:36
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DRP Solved! posted:Has she had migraine headaches before? If so, is she possibly getting exposed to any of her usual triggers?
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Oct 21, 2011 19:43
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VoodooSchmoodoo posted:New guy (finally my libido came back after coming off the pill a few months ago), so new contracption needed. That sucks  Implanon is probably a good bet to try, then. Next to Mirena, it's the lowest dose of hormones available. IIRC it's only one kind of hormone (as opposed to two, like many pills), and a much lower dose than most pills, so hopefully you will have fewer side effects. Failing that, you could see about a different provider? Maybe someone else would have more luck. Maybe you don't have that option, but it could be worth a try if you do.
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Oct 21, 2011 21:27
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So, I looked and couldn't find too much about this. Sorry if I maybe missed it or something though. I've been taking the Nuvaring for about two years, or maybe a little over that now. It's been working really well until recently. I've already called up for an appointment but it's still a few weeks from now [and that's the earliest I could get.] Last month I was a day late putting the ring back and I ended up not having a period at all. I spotted a really little bit, but that's it. I freaked out, took a test, it was negative. I was not late this month with putting it back in, but the same thing is going on, just a little spotting. Like, barely even noticeable, spotting for one day. I'm worried again but don't really know if I should be. It's also been hard with dealing with the symptoms. Normally I get cramps up until my period starts, but well, I'm still having bad cramps, been overly emotional and depressed, and all that other yucky poo poo. It did stop for a bit when I put my ring in last month, but this month it's a lot worse and I just don't know what I can do until I can get to the clinic. Am I still just over reacting though? I can't tell, but I also haven't really been able to find anything with anyone else having the same issue. I was even late a long time ago on putting my ring back in but I just had a really heavy period that month.
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Oct 21, 2011 21:42
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Eggplant Wizard posted:That sucks Confirming that Implanon is progestin only.
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Oct 22, 2011 02:29
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IUD pain related update if anyone cares. I'm the one who had a panic attack during insertion which made it a lot worse.  Consistent, low grade cramping and light bleeding since insertion about two weeks ago. I was fine to work the day after inaction. Been working out like normal ever since and it even kind of helps with the cramps. I'm talking 135 pound squats and 175 pound deadlifts, so its some serious exertion. Even if I had a panic attack everytime they inserted a new Mirena, I'd say its worth it. I have a check up on 11/18 to make sure everything is in proper place and whatever else they look for. Should I use condoms till then or is that overkill? It seems like I would 100% know if something was wrong with my IUD.
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Oct 22, 2011 02:35
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Jizzy Q posted:So, I looked and couldn't find too much about this. Sorry if I maybe missed it or something though. Hmm. Well, having very light periods (or none at all) is actually every common on hormonal birth control, and tends to get more likely the longer you use it. It' s also potentially caused by stress, which is something to keep in mind. Sudden appearance of other symptoms like unusually bad cramping, moodiness and depression is odd, after using a method for so long, but it's possible your body just "decided" it was going to be a bitch with the ring for a while. As far as I know, it's not a sign of anything medically wrong (good on you for taking the pregnancy test, by the way).
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Oct 22, 2011 14:50
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2508084 posted:IUD pain related update if anyone cares. I'm the one who had a panic attack during insertion which made it a lot worse. My Dr told me that I was immediately protected after my Mirena insertion and I could go home and have condom-free sex right after my appointment (not like I would have wanted to, but you get the idea...) As long as you aren't worried about STIs you should be good to go. I hear you on the working out thing. Lifting always makes my cramps go away  Edit: My doctor also recommended feeling up in there for strings, but sometimes I couldn't find them so I dunno. You could do that too I guess. Pip pip pip fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 17:36
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I totally forgot yesterday was the day I should have put my Nuvaring back in, and I had unprotected sex last night. I am getting a copper IUD put in Monday, and everything I read states it can be used as an emergency contraceptive up to 5 days later (I also read it's more effective then the Plan B pill...I believe I read this in the OP), so I should be safe, right? 
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Oct 23, 2011 00:23
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The Peacock posted:I totally forgot yesterday was the day I should have put my Nuvaring back in, and I had unprotected sex last night. I am getting a copper IUD put in Monday, and everything I read states it can be used as an emergency contraceptive up to 5 days later (I also read it's more effective then the Plan B pill...I believe I read this in the OP), so I should be safe, right? Er..I haven't actually read all of the OP myself but this sounds like a bad idea. Take plan B, you may or may not have to delay your insertion. Call their office Monday before your appointment.
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Oct 23, 2011 00:29
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Kerfuffle posted:Er..I haven't actually read all of the OP myself but this sounds like a bad idea. Take plan B, you may or may not have to delay your insertion. Call their office Monday before your appointment. This is what it says: Bolding mine OP posted:Copper IUD as EC
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Oct 23, 2011 00:35
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VoodooSchmoodoo posted:New guy (finally my libido came back after coming off the pill a few months ago), so new contracption needed.
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Oct 23, 2011 07:40
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i like nice words
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The Peacock posted:I totally forgot yesterday was the day I should have put my Nuvaring back in, and I had unprotected sex last night. I am getting a copper IUD put in Monday, and everything I read states it can be used as an emergency contraceptive up to 5 days later (I also read it's more effective then the Plan B pill...I believe I read this in the OP), so I should be safe, right? I would really ask a doctor or pharmacist about this, just in case... Pip pip pip posted:My Dr told me that I was immediately protected after my Mirena insertion and I could go home and have condom-free sex right after my appointment (not like I would have wanted to, but you get the idea...) As long as you aren't worried about STIs you should be good to go. In terms of pregnancy, yeah, you're good to go, but I was told not to put anything up there for at least a week after insertion. It seems like it would be safer in terms of preventing infection.
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Oct 23, 2011 20:24
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Is Mirena feasible for someone with a low cervix? As in, regularly gets hit during sex? I like the idea of Mirena but worry that with my anatomy the thing will get knocked out during the first post-insertion boning. Also not enthused about potentially stabbing my partner in the wang.  I'd rather just go with Implanon, but I live in the middle of nowhere, so going to a doctor who's qualified would be significant time+gas investment.
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Oct 24, 2011 00:05
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Eggplant Wizard posted:I would really ask a doctor or pharmacist about this, just in case... I called the Nurseline, and she said according to all info she had, it's basically almost impossible, especially because it was day 4 of my period. I will ask the Dr before he does it though, but from what I've looked up, and the nurse's info, day 4 is a highly unlikely fertile day. As well, the IUD can be used as EC, so there's that. ETA: Called the Dr's office and the nurse advised against it because if there was a pregnancy, it would be terminated at insertion of the IUD. I explained that I did not want a pregnancy, that's why I'm getting the IUD. She then got very angry, asking why I called if I knew it was going to cause an abortion, why would I call and waste time when I knew that. I calmly explained that it's my choice and my decision to continue with the appt, and she basically hung up on me. Way to be compassionate, nurse.
The Peacock fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 13:12
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KentuckyFriedBonBon posted:Is Mirena feasible for someone with a low cervix? As in, regularly gets hit during sex? I like the idea of Mirena but worry that with my anatomy the thing will get knocked out during the first post-insertion boning. Also not enthused about potentially stabbing my partner in the wang. I have an IUD and my partner makes my cervix quite sore after sex. He has never complained and I had a bit of light bleeding after sex for the first 6 months of having my IUD but now i'm about to hit a year and I never bleed anymore (except for my period of course)
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Oct 24, 2011 14:27
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I finally got up the nerve to ask my GP about getting Paragard. Turns out, she can't order one because its only indication is for birth control and my doctor works in an office backed by Sisters of St Francis (add this to my "list of reasons I'm only Catholic on holidays with the in-laws"). Now I get to go be nervous at a new office on Wednesday (run by the other, non-religious shop in town) and hopefully get the IUD inserted! No cup for the first cycle after insertion, correct? The Peacock posted:ETA: Called the Dr's office and the nurse advised against it because if there was a pregnancy, it would be terminated at insertion of the IUD. I explained that I did not want a pregnancy, that's why I'm getting the IUD. She then got very angry, asking why I called if I knew it was going to cause an abortion, why would I call and waste time when I knew that. I calmly explained that it's my choice and my decision to continue with the appt, and she basically hung up on me. Way to be compassionate, nurse. Yikes, sounds like your Dr is probably in a similar situation as mine. The nurse I always seem to get there is clearly uncomfortable even talking about IUDs. Honestly, it's a good thing I love my GP, otherwise I'd be changing offices ASAP. Maybe shop around with your insurance's "Find a Provider" thing (if you're lucky enough to be insured). fine-tune fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 17:33
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The Peacock posted:ETA: Called the Dr's office and the nurse advised against it because if there was a pregnancy, it would be terminated at insertion of the IUD. I explained that I did not want a pregnancy, that's why I'm getting the IUD. She then got very angry, asking why I called if I knew it was going to cause an abortion, why would I call and waste time when I knew that. I calmly explained that it's my choice and my decision to continue with the appt, and she basically hung up on me. Way to be compassionate, nurse. Augh, what a bitch. I say go to your appointment, and file a complaint about her while you're there. I will never understand why, if they have strong personal opinions something, medical professionals put themselves in positions where they will have to deal with the exact thing they disagree with on a reular basis. Are you getting it done at Walkerville?
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Oct 24, 2011 17:46
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Fanky Malloons posted:Augh, what a bitch. I say go to your appointment, and file a complaint about her while you're there. I will never understand why, if they have strong personal opinions something, medical professionals put themselves in positions where they will have to deal with the exact thing they disagree with on a reular basis. Are you getting it done at Walkerville? Yes, this afternoon, actually. I feel like filing a complaint, because I was already nervous enough about getting it done, and the way she spoke to me really upset me.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:56
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The Peacock posted:Yes, this afternoon, actually. I feel like filing a complaint, because I was already nervous enough about getting it done, and the way she spoke to me really upset me. Most definitely file a complaint. She has no right to stick her personal opinion in and upset you over something that's none of her drat business.
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Oct 24, 2011 18:15
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fine-tune posted:No cup for the first cycle after insertion, correct? Recent retrospective study of 1000 women found that there isn't a significantly higher risk of expulsion in the first two months (the most critical time period) for cup users versus tampon or pad users. So, basically, there's no evidence to suggest a cup will increase the risk of expulsion, but the news hasn't really gotten out yet. Some doctors still tell you not to use tampons, even.
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Oct 24, 2011 19:05
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fine-tune posted:I finally got up the nerve to ask my GP about getting Paragard. Turns out, she can't order one because its only indication is for birth control and my doctor works in an office backed by Sisters of St Francis (add this to my "list of reasons I'm only Catholic on holidays with the in-laws"). Now I get to go be nervous at a new office on Wednesday (run by the other, non-religious shop in town) and hopefully get the IUD inserted! My GP works at an OSF St Mary's hospital and they won't allow birth control to be prescribed by any of their doctors....on a prescription pad with the OSF name. My doc just has 2 sets of papers, the one not affiliated with OSF she only uses to write prescriptions that OSF does't agree with it. Not sure if it's the wisest thing but it can be done. On that same note, my daughter inherited godawful periods from my maternal side. Every month is cramps severe enough to make her nauseous, diarrhea, very heavy bleeding. She's 15 and has had her period since she was 11.She's already frustrated badly enough with the whole being a woman crap that she half-jokingly asked how old she had to be before she could get her "evil hating-me monsoon of blood holder" removed. I had wonderful results after being put Loestrin Fe 24, so I asked my daughter's doctor (also at OSF) if it would be possible to put my daughter on the Loestrin as well. I was in the exam room with my daughter and her doctor. Her doctor looked at me and said "Why would you want to teach your daughter that it's okay to go out and sleep around"? Uhhh, not wanting to suffer for a week out of every month does not equal wanting to sleep around. My daughter looked at her and said "Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a virgin, not a whore" and walked out. She now goes to see my doctor who is willing to write scripts for bc on the sly. PS She's been on Loestrin 24 for 8 months now and is back to loving being a female.
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Oct 24, 2011 19:14
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The Peacock posted:Yes, this afternoon, actually. I feel like filing a complaint, because I was already nervous enough about getting it done, and the way she spoke to me really upset me. Let us know how that goes. I feel bad because I was sure they'd give you straight advice on whether the IUD insertion was ok for YOU if the doctor was worried about the insertion process or something, not be a huge rear end in a top hat to you.
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Oct 24, 2011 20:40
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Absolute Evil posted:Her doctor looked at me and said "Why would you want to teach your daughter that it's okay to go out and sleep around"? Uhhh, not wanting to suffer for a week out of every month does not equal wanting to sleep around. My daughter looked at her and said "Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a virgin, not a whore" and walked out. Good for your daughter! What a piece of poo poo doctor! I would definitely file a complaint against this rear end in a top hat- that kind of attitude can be severely damaging to girls/women. Shaming can lead to unprotected sex because girls are too scared/shy to ask for condoms/bc, which can lead to pregnancy and STIs. This is the same kind of attitude that believes it's okay to let millions of women develop preventable HPV (and later cervical cancer) because the vaccine will give them a green light to spread their legs. 
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Oct 24, 2011 20:42
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fork bomb posted:This is the same kind of attitude that believes it's okay to let millions of women develop preventable HPV (and later cervical cancer) because the vaccine will give them a green light to spread their legs. Oddly enough, this doctor gave my daughter all 3 Gardasil shots and reminded me that now it is suggested boys in the same age group get the shots as well. I think she's been a doctor too long and has lost her mind. My daughter has a good head on her shoulders, a poo poo-ton more than I did at that age. She knows she come to me to get condoms/other bc for her than have her sneak around or go without because of embarassment.
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Oct 24, 2011 21:33
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Kerfuffle posted:Let us know how that goes. I feel bad because I was sure they'd give you straight advice on whether the IUD insertion was ok for YOU if the doctor was worried about the insertion process or something, not be a huge rear end in a top hat to you. The insertion wasn't bad at all, actually. Two severe cramps; one was when they stabilized the cervix with the tenaculum, and the other was the sounding. Dear god, the sounding. But the best part is 5 years of no worries! As far as complaining goes, I expressed my concerns about her with the Dr, and he seemed like he's heard it before. He said he will personally speak with her about it, and to not take her comments to heart. He understood a child is not an option for me at this point, and that insertion would mean possible miscarriage IF I was pregnant, but he also doubted I would be. So all in all, a great appointment!
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Oct 24, 2011 21:49
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The Peacock posted:The insertion wasn't bad at all, actually. Two severe cramps; one was when they stabilized the cervix with the tenaculum, and the other was the sounding. Dear god, the sounding. But the best part is 5 years of no worries! Yay! I'm glad for you. I was going to say earlier, if you had Dr. B, he did seem like the time who doesn't take that kind of poo poo from anybody. That man is ALL BUSINESS, ALL THE TIME.
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Oct 24, 2011 21:58
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Fanky Malloons posted:Yay! I'm glad for you. I was going to say earlier, if you had Dr. B, he did seem like the time who doesn't take that kind of poo poo from anybody. That man is ALL BUSINESS, ALL THE TIME. Yes, that's the guy! He reminds me of an older Jeff Goldblum. 
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Oct 24, 2011 22:38
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Absolute Evil posted:
Your daughter said the exact same thing I did to my parents GP. I had horrrrrrrible periods from 12-14 and then asked my mom to get me on the pill to cut the pain/cramps. The doctor was like "THIS DOESNT MEAN SEX IS OK!!!" and I told him where to shove it. My parents insurance wouldn't cover the pill but would cover viagra. I called them and gave them a piece of my mind. It still took 2 years before they covered the pill and it wasn't even catholic/christian affiliated. This was only in 2003 or 2004.
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Oct 25, 2011 14:34
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lovely old fashioned doctors are the worst. I remember the first time I tried to get on the pill for my horrible, "kill me now" cramps. I randomly picked a doctor from the directory and made an appointment. At the time, I was still a virgin, so during the whole questionnaire after I said "no" to if I was sexually active, the doctor pretty much dropped everything she was doing and told me "If you aren't having sex then you shouldn't be on the pill!" and wrote me a prescription for Advil It took me about a year later to work up the courage to try again with someone different, and this time I lucked out with the most awesome gyn who actually listened to me and gave me a proper diagnosis for dysmenorrhea. She strongly encouraged me to go on the pill and over five years later she's now gonna insert a Mirena in me next week 
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Oct 25, 2011 15:06
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Trip report: Just got back from my appointment at PP to get my implant removed. The doctor warned me it sometimes takes a little bit to wiggle it free, but it came out no problems. She even tricked me with "look that way, I'm going to do a numb test" when she sliced me open, which was nice because I was pretty nervous. A few minutes later it was "oh look at this" with her holding it and some blood smeared on it. Bandage has to stay on for a day, but if my bruise is massive or particularly colorful I'll get a pic. I was in and out in just over an hour, and I walked away with tons of free pills.
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Oct 25, 2011 19:50
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Eggplant Wizard posted:
Okay, I'm convinced. I'm decided to not be a big baby and to just go for it. Made my appointment for Veteran's Day since I'm off of work anyway. I'm nervous, but I just keep remembering that whatever pain/discomfort I experience will only be temporary. I've been through things that were significantly more annoying long-term (shoulder surgery, RNY bypass, tattoos, foot surgery), so I think I can deal with some bad cramps. For worry-free birth control for the next five years? Yeah, I'll take it.
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Oct 25, 2011 21:37
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Couple things. I'm 23, no babies, currently using Nuvaring, but I'm likely going to switch to an IUD or at least a pill very soon. Nuvaring has treated me well, it's pretty much been worry free. It's helped my skin, obviously regulated the cycle, and I swear ever since I got it I have to shave less often. It is pretty awesome. However, I'm probably going to have to alter my method. See, all of these awesome things were awesome until I started having frequent sex. When left in during, my bf could feel it prod him. If he was doing things particularly forcefully, it slammed against my cervix and against him and that was not fun for either of us. It gave me pretty lame cramps. So, we started going about our business without the ring, since it could be left out for three hours each day. (The thing that really sucks is reinserting the drat thing after a long session and the bits are tender...) I would assume leaving the ring out for a net of 3 hours per day is the standard maximum for that, and we got close but never exceeded this max. We were really diligent about leaving it in unless we were making room for him. However, I'm still a little concerned about it. We didn't wait a full day before taking it out again though. An example, say Wednesday the ring was out for about 1.5hours @ 6pm, then popped back in. Went to bed and then Thursday morning @ 9am, it came out for another 1 hour, and then later Thursday evening @ 8pm, it was out for another 2 hours. I haven't stopped using it and I'm due to insert a new one tomorrow. Should I be worried? There was always several hours of exposure to the hormones between each session. Anyway... for the reasons above I'm considering going back on the pill or getting an IUD, cause god forbid we want to do things for more than 3 hours or have to worry about ring-induced funparts sensitivity. I am strongly, strongly considering an IUD and this thread has helped greatly in that. I'm a bit undecided whether I want Mirena or Paraguard though. The whole lack of hormones thing sounds nice, but I've grown used to not having to worry about periods at all and Mirena is going to keep things closer to that. If for some reason I can't get an IUD, does anyone have any suggestions for a BC pill that has similar levels of hormones that Nuvaring does? Or has anyone transistion from Nuvaring to a pill and have one work for them particularly well?
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Oct 25, 2011 23:46
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