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kimbo305 posted:You'll get a lot of feedback here that that club must have been terrible. Scoring in sport Muay Thai is doing damage (unless you're a farang, in which case you must KO). Winding him as in kneeing him in the kidneys and punching him in the trachea, not exhausting him. My school is sort of a mixed bag - we have a senior master and three junior masters, and depending on their style we can brutal or soft (e.g. one master made us spend the entire lesson learning now to hit each other in the neck, and I got nearly knocked unconcious, whereas one made us just work the jongs for an hour) Illegal Username posted:Wing Chun is bad because it only teaches you impractical techniques in a compliant manner without ever testing those skills under pressure. Fair enough, although I think its to do with the school. I did want to take another art to train grappling (unfortunately University is killing my time, but over Christmas/Easter/Summer I will have time to do this!) - what would you recommend? I'm pretty bloody skinny at 6 ft and 63 KG so I'm unsure if I could manage MMA right now.
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Oct 29, 2011 20:21
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Decades posted:Maybe. But I think the stances are more about engraining habits into beginners and grow more loose and natural with time. Experienced guy push inexperienced guys around easily enough without the weird looking inward stance. The inward stance makes you both slower and less balanced than, say, a basic boxing stance. It's also an invitation for someone to low kick as much as they ever want. quote:I think you could interpret wing chun as grappling Lord Twisted posted:Fair enough, although I think its to do with the school. Bad schools are the norm, not the exception in WC. At this point it will take me a video to believe when someone claims they do sparring/pressure testing in their gym (Hint: they never do. though sometimes they think they do) quote:I did want to take another art to train grappling (unfortunately University is killing my time, but over Christmas/Easter/Summer I will have time to do this!) - what would you recommend? I'm pretty bloody skinny at 6 ft and 63 KG so I'm unsure if I could manage MMA right now. George Rouncewell fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 20:43
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Lord Twisted posted:Fair enough, although I think its to do with the school. I did want to take another art to train grappling (unfortunately University is killing my time, but over Christmas/Easter/Summer I will have time to do this!) - what would you recommend? I'm pretty bloody skinny at 6 ft and 63 KG so I'm unsure if I could manage MMA right now. Yeah you would want to bulk the hell up. I'm 5'10" (weight varies between 140 and 145) and I would never consider doing competing in MMA unless I can get to 155 at a minimum. As for martial arts, they're great hobbies. However unless you're a police officer or a soldier, or any other profession (or live in a locale) where you know you might actually get murdered or assaulted, or training with that in mind, then you're really just a hobbyist. Not to say grappling isn't without it's merits. It is excellent for gaining a solid self-defense base. Decades posted:I think you could interpret wing chun as grappling... **Edit It should be noted that when I say "grappling" I mean wrestling or grappling in general(Freestyle, Folkstyle, Judo, Sambo, Greco-Roman, Turkish folk wrestling, Mongolian folk wrestling, Sumo, BJJ, etc....) I am not specifically referring to submission wrestling/grappling. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 20:51
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Senor P. posted:Yeah you would want to bulk the hell up. I'm 5'10" (weight varies between 140 and 145) and I would never consider doing competing in MMA unless I can get to 155 at a minimum. What? Why? if he's 2m and 63 kg, just fight stand up and poke the poo poo out of the guy. Try to avoid going to the ground.
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Oct 29, 2011 20:55
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Senor P. posted:Yeah you would want to bulk the hell up. I'm 5'10" (weight varies between 140 and 145) and I would never consider doing competing in MMA unless I can get to 155 at a minimum.
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Oct 29, 2011 20:57
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Lord Twisted posted:Winding him as in kneeing him in the kidneys and punching him in the trachea, not exhausting him. So by "Winding" you mean "being an rear end in a top hat". You can't train hard like that, you're going to injure somebody for no benefit. Remember, Training != Competition != Somebody Trying To Kill You.
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Oct 29, 2011 21:04
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Illegal Username posted:Thing is, training is a good way to bulk up. I weighed around 135 when i started. I now walk around at 150-155 and fight at 145ish. It can be. But if you want to get bigger, generally you need to increase your calorie intake, and add protein yes? (I'm by no means a W&W guy and this is why I probably remain at a puny poundage.) Guilty posted:What? Why? if he's 2m and 63 kg, just fight stand up and poke the poo poo out of the guy. Try to avoid going to the ground. Anyway if he wants to go do MMA, then he should go train for MMA. Lord Twisted posted:Winding him as in kneeing him in the kidneys and punching him in the trachea, not exhausting him. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 21:16
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Senor P. posted:It can be. But if you want to get bigger, generally you need to increase your calorie intake, and add protein yes? (I'm by no means a W&W guy and this is why I probably remain at a puny poundage.) Yeah, there are basically two kinds of weight. Temporary weight is water, food that hasn't passed through, that sort of thing. Permanent weight is your actual muscle, fat, organs bones etc. You increase or decrease your permanent weight by changing your balance of calorie intake and usage. If you take in more calories than you use, your body stores it as fat. If you take in fewer calories than your body needs, it uses up energy by breaking apart either fat stores or muscle. It's generally easier to gain muscle when you are running a calorie surplus but if you are overweight you can do it while running a deficit (I lost 20 lbs while adding 50 lbs to my bench and ~70 to my squat once). It's important to differentiate between temporary and permanent weight because the way you gain or lose one has nothing to do with the other.
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Oct 29, 2011 21:29
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Illegal Username posted:...so you teach newbies a bad stance and hope they grow out of it? I wouldn't say that you grow out of it so much as it grows more subtle and efficient as you learn to do more with less. When I call it grappling I mean that in the broad sense inclusive of the clinch, gripfighting, aikido and such I suppose - pretty much anything that's not striking. I think wing chun's probably closer to that than it is to pure striking, but it's not necessarily a helpful comparison anyway. Really more it's own thing.
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Oct 29, 2011 21:30
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Lord Twisted posted:Winding him as in kneeing him in the kidneys and punching him in the trachea, not exhausting him. My school is sort of a mixed bag - we have a senior master and three junior masters, and depending on their style we can brutal or soft (e.g. one master made us spend the entire lesson learning now to hit each other in the neck, and I got nearly knocked unconcious, whereas one made us just work the jongs for an hour)
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Oct 29, 2011 22:45
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Decades posted:I wouldn't say that you grow out of it so much as it grows more subtle and efficient as you learn to do more with less. How about this. It can be considered real grappling when you could put four or five fighters of your style into an ADCC comp and expect at least one of them to win a single fight. IMO Wing Chun is as much grappling as tickle fighting is striking.
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Oct 29, 2011 23:10
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I think its fair to say that wing chun is better than doing absolutely nothing.
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Oct 29, 2011 23:59
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Wing Chun wouldn't be so maligned, but there's this enormous following of brainwashed kids on the internet who have been convinced that they are studying the One True Martial Art, and all those MMA Meatheads simply wouldn't understand it. Their martial art is Too Deadly to take into the MMA ruleset. Nothing seems break this self-delusion. I have never heard of a Wing Chun practitioner winning anything. ANYTHING. Vale Tudo fight? MMA fight? Boxing match? Kickboxing? Wrestling competition? Grappling competition? It has no answer for wrestling techniques or grappling techniques because the stance is built for either stand-up striking or arms-length-standing-grappling, but it doesn't succeed in any sort of striking competition either, because it doesn't have a solution to a loving HOOK. One of the four basic boxing strikes is a completely unstoppable puzzle to a WC practitioner, because it doesn't happen in a straight line. We live in an age where the mystery surrounding martial arts has been replaced with concrete evidence of the effectiveness of styles: we can put them in direct competition with each other and film it, under a hundred different rulesets, or under no rules at all. Wing chun doesn't succeed in any of these rulesets, and it doesn't succeed without rules either. If Wing Chun was something people did for fun and fitness it'd be fine and nobody would be bothered by it, like Capoeira or Wushu, which aren't terribly combat effective but are loving awesome and we all love them anyway. Or if it was done for the sake of cultural/historical appreciation, like bartitsu or something, that'd be fine too. But the cult of Secret Ultimate Power surrounding it makes it widely disliked on the internet. edit: This is the only video I could find of a Wing Chun fighter in the UFC. The audio is hosed up, but the video is fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDLRX1P0bEg 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Oct 30, 2011 |
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Oct 30, 2011 04:22
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Yeah, if Wing Chun actually had something useful then you'd see a WC master go into an MMA gym and say "this his how are stance helps you keep from being taken down" or "this is why are punches are better" or whatever, demo it and then the MMA guys would win some matches and brag about how their WC influenced style is helping them. This hasn't happened and it's not because WC is some obscure thing. WC was stress tested along with boxing, karate, muay thai, TKD and a number of other systems and the popular stuff now is the stuff that worked.
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Oct 30, 2011 04:50
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Back in '05 Carlson Gracie was supposedly collaborating with a WC instructor in Chicago(apparently they were dojo neighbors) to blend the two to bring into professional MMA competition. Unfortunately I believe the project died with Carlson; it would've been interesting at least to see how it fared, even in amateur fights. Last non-MMA thing I've seen in MMA competition is Jeet Kune Do and that dude was too caught up in trying to arbitrarily do techniques to actually fight against his opponent. edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3jJ-lb7N8A Audio is poo poo, and I'm not sure what they're trying to demonstrate, but there it is. It's pretty clear why this didn't get taken to professional MMA competition, if this is how they're training. Omglosser fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Oct 30, 2011 |
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Oct 30, 2011 05:17
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NovemberMike posted:Yeah, if Wing Chun actually had something useful then you'd see a WC master go into an MMA gym and say "this his how are stance helps you keep from being taken down" or "this is why are punches are better" or whatever, demo it and then the MMA guys would win some matches and brag about how their WC influenced style is helping them. This hasn't happened and it's not because WC is some obscure thing. WC was stress tested along with boxing, karate, muay thai, TKD and a number of other systems and the popular stuff now is the stuff that worked.
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Oct 30, 2011 05:18
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Nierbo posted:Is this some joke about accents that I'm not getting? Nope, I'm just retarded.
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Oct 30, 2011 05:24
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Illegal Username posted:...so you teach newbies a bad stance and hope they grow out of it? The southern horse stance is for the kata. The default WC stance is either a fairly narrow balanced stance or an "empty" stance, where weight is mostly on the rear foot. Nierbo posted:I think its fair to say that wing chun is better than doing absolutely nothing. If it teaches that you can win this or that fight with ridiculously contrived techniques that are worse than super aggro baboon swing punches, that would be worse than nothing. 02-6611-0142-1 posted:I have never heard of a Wing Chun practitioner winning anything. ANYTHING. There's Shawn Obasi, though he's neither pure Wing Chun nor that good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Nt2YSTNNA#t=1m Note how he spends maybe 5s in the domain where WC is supposed to work, and all he has is a really sloppy straight blast. Not only that, but the relative competence (relative!) with which he rapidly transitions to other domains (sprawling, sweeping, guard). The point is that you had better be able to handle those other areas even if you want to use WC for striking and clinch range work. And now compare his work there to what more pure WC sparring looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WeG1ojL9VU Totally different. A lot of the chi sao stuff just doesn't materialize in the real fight. quote:because it doesn't have a solution to a loving HOOK. One of the four basic boxing strikes is a completely unstoppable puzzle to a WC practitioner, because it doesn't happen in a straight line. The solution is a forearm block on trap and to then forearm strike or punch or elbow the head with the other arm. If you timed it really well, it could work. But as abundant video evidence shows, WC folks either train against superbly bad strawman hook punches or are happy to stay in the realm of chi sao when doing their techniques. bonus: A rambling Mancunian talks about WC's weaknesses and Obasi's particular style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3YRutaneY8
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Oct 30, 2011 05:52
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hey guys long time no post i'm still in the loving Australian desert, still my kicking my poo poo bag all by my lonesone, developing all those bad habits no jiu jitsu since i was last in Brisbane for a break which was like 6 months ago Have done a bit of proper muay thai training at my gym at home but gently caress all really I'm supposed to have an amateur muay thai fight in February or so. gently caress. So fat and slow and lovely. I'll have 2.5 months straight to prepare though once I get home in December plus whatever crap I can do here (mostly cardio I guess because bagwork sucks) oh this is about the dude that runs my gym at home: http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/other-sport/181356/kickboxing-tough-task-honey-badger he fought on Friday night, won his first fight but lost his second, first time in the ring in like 3 years because of knee injuries
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Oct 30, 2011 09:58
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:E
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Oct 30, 2011 14:24
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Are there any icepacks you guys rec for sore arms or is ice in a bag the best thing?
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Oct 30, 2011 16:20
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origami posted:Are there any icepacks you guys rec for sore arms or is ice in a bag the best thing? additionally does tiger balm actually work? i woke up today and for some reason my upper arms are sore as hell
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Oct 30, 2011 16:30
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Use Bengay.
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Oct 30, 2011 16:50
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Anyone have recommendations for cheap board shorts?
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Oct 30, 2011 17:01
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Not vouching for his style or even agreeing that it counts as wing chun necessarily, but for the sake of completeness there's also Alan Orr's team. He's all about crosstraining and adapting wing chun to make it "work" by loosening it up and bringing it closer to standard mma striking I guess. He still keeps his feet planted in chi sao. http://www.alanorr.co.uk/htdocs/ironwolves/ironwolves.html Some of them win things sometimes.
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Oct 30, 2011 17:08
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mewse posted:additionally does tiger balm actually work? i woke up today and for some reason my upper arms are sore as hell I found biofreeze was better but that the best remedy was getting rest. It turns out I think I may have tendonitis in both arms/elbows. Not sure...
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Oct 30, 2011 17:10
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Wow, a lot to read getting back from my weekend! Thanks for the input guys, decided to probably train into the new year then start taking an MMA class or boxing (not dropping WC, just seeing what its like), I'll probably be back with a plethora of questions once that occurs :PSenor P. posted:
E: In hindsight having read what I said, yeah I was actually pretty retarded, and had a history with the guy I was supposed to be sparring, so I retract my comments there Lord Twisted fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 30, 2011 |
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Oct 30, 2011 17:29
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Decades posted:Not vouching for his style or even agreeing that it counts as wing chun necessarily, but for the sake of completeness there's also Alan Orr's team. He's all about crosstraining and adapting wing chun to make it "work" by loosening it up and bringing it closer to standard mma striking I guess. He still keeps his feet planted in chi sao. I looked up some of the fights on youtube and there really wasn't much of a WC style evident. It mostly looked like they were doing BJJ + Boxing with some bad low kicks mixed in. They're also mostly putting out Amateurs and getting that extra 10-20% out of your punches isn't necessarily the most important thing there.
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Oct 30, 2011 18:49
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I went for a bike ride on my road bike the other day for the first time. I was using clipless pedals for the first time too; it took a bit of work to get used to pulling my feet out before I stopped so I could stand at a stoplight or whatever. Stick with me, this is actually martial arts related! Not the wrong thread! So I stop at an intersection on a slight slope; there are maybe a dozen cars there. I accidentally let go of the brake a bit and the bike starts rolling back, which is normally fine -- I have one foot on the ground and one foot stuck on my pedal. But I wasn't used to pulling my foot off quickly and things went down the shitter quickly. The bike went backwards, my foot was stuck to it, I was hopping on the other foot trying to stop. It was a beautiful disaster in slow motion. I probably had about 30 seconds to say "poo poo poo poo poo poo" over and over before giving up and saying "FUUUUUUCK" as I fell. And here's the martial arts part: when I fell backward, my first reaction was to do a breakfall with both hands. On pavement. I now have two very, very bruised palms.
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Oct 31, 2011 07:35
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Better that than a broken wrist or arm. Dave Camarillo survived a high-speed motorbike accident with a breakfall, and doesn't think he'd have lived otherwise.
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Oct 31, 2011 09:41
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Better that than a broken wrist or arm. Huh, I never knew that.
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Oct 31, 2011 10:24
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Feeling better today. My knees suck. Not the joints, the strikes. Although the joints kinda suck too actually, one of them has some calcified muscle tissue or some poo poo on it after I fell on concrete and when I knee things it ends up swollen and kinda sore. Should really get something done about that. Have an injured ankle too because I was dumb and fell 3 meters to the ground off my frontend loader at work wearing jandals and now my ankle hurts like gently caress whenever I put weight on the front of my foot with the foot bent upwards if you know what I mean. It only happens like once a day when I walk up or down something pretty much but I injured it like 3 weeks ago so I should go see a doctor I guess. Feels good to be back in training. Starting to get flexibility back and feel more coordinated and faster. Just got to stop eating biscuits. No access to scales but probably 73-74kg and want to get down to probably 65. Was walking around at 68 earlier in the year without too much effort and still a bit fat at that. Diet is hard because it's like a million degrees here and I just eat biscuits and drink freezing refreshing cans of free coke from the company fridge. I need a padholder/sparring buddy at work gently caress
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Oct 31, 2011 12:13
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Incidentally I'm not actually a brony. Someone bought every notable TFR poster my little pony avs it's pretty weird
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Oct 31, 2011 12:18
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You don't have to explain yourself. We all know.
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Oct 31, 2011 13:21
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I didn't. And thought he's a brony.
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Oct 31, 2011 14:44
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the gently caress is a brony
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Oct 31, 2011 15:33
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Illegal Username posted:the gently caress is a brony Once you know, you cannot un-know. Are you sure you want to know what Man is Not Meant to Know? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brony_%28My_Little_Pony%29#Internet_following
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Oct 31, 2011 17:05
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gimpsuitjones posted:Diet is hard because it's like a million degrees here and I just eat biscuits and drink freezing refreshing cans of free coke from the company fridge. The avatar didn't catch my attention. This part of your posting did. Step 1 towards better health and diet is to give up the Coke.
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Oct 31, 2011 18:11
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So I just washed my Gill Sports gi for the first time and it shrank a little bit. I second checked the IJF rules on gis and it's pretty much a perfect fit for everything so I know it's going to stay legal if I never put it in the drier. This poo poo looks unfair, it's so thick compared to my other gi, I can't wait to try it in randori, I'm sure it's going to feel like I just leveled up. If anyone wants picture or something I'll be glad to take some
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Oct 31, 2011 20:26
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KingColliwog posted:So I just washed my Gill Sports gi for the first time and it shrank a little bit. I second checked the IJF rules on gis and it's pretty much a perfect fit for everything so I know it's going to stay legal if I never put it in the drier. This poo poo looks unfair, it's so thick compared to my other gi, I can't wait to try it in randori, I'm sure it's going to feel like I just leveled up. The first time I put on a double weave Gi I felt like I was wearing a suit of armor.
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Oct 31, 2011 21:05
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