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Seoinin posted:Kanaya didn't so much try to reason with her as nag her to clean up her room. That's what Vriska said! But Kanaya explicitly brought up that example to try to get through to Vriska on a very important point. It's one of the key flaws of Vriska's character: she wilfully refuses to acknowledge the consequences of her own actions. When Vriska painfully trods on the dice lying around on her floor, she chooses to attribute it to cosmic forces of luck and dismisses Kanaya's more pragmatic assessment that this is a logical consequence of leaving her room such a mess. Vriska's worldview does not admit the possibility that her actions (being a slob) can have negative consequences (constantly stepping on painful dice); from a character perspective Kanaya's meddling was a way for her to try to address this broader flaw using a simple concrete example, from a story perspective this introductory conversation served to illustrate what would be one of Vriska's core failings. This disconnect between actions and consequences comes up again and again. She demands in all earnestness that Tavros apologize to her for being crippled and expects that ghost Aradia will be grateful to her for getting Equius to build her a robot, choosing to remain oblivious to her own prominent role in creating these circumstances. It's why, ultimately, Terezi's attempts to reason with Vriska were doomed to fail--Vriska did not want to hear that she could possibly be responsible for anything bad, so her perfectly reasonable warning fell on deaf ears. It made her dream bubble scene particularly poignant, because it's perhaps the first time in the story that she's had to face consequences head on (apparently) without any way to weasel out of them.
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Oct 31, 2011 23:10
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:The point where people are disagreeing is that inside the frog and outside the frog are separate timeline bundles. The scratch makes a new in-frog alpha timeline. What does that mean outside the frog? Search me. You're suggesting that it creates an entire new meta-timeline where the frog itself did not originate in the troll session, or that it wholly or partly resets the troll session as well, or something of the kind. It's certainly an option, but it also is not part of what the story has explicitly given us. I don't think we're disagreeing here. I'm suggesting that there's nothing yet in the story to say that Jack will be destroying that post-scratch universe either. This is part of the mechanics To Be Determined. I'm merely taking to task the notion that Jack cannot exist after the Scratch, because as far as paradox space is concerned, there are two timelines, and Jack can come from the old one.
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Oct 31, 2011 23:20
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Zoolooman posted:I'm suggesting that there's nothing yet in the story to say that Jack will be destroying that post-scratch universe either. 1). The post-scratch universe is still dead, but it dies at the same point of time (i.e. 413 years after the end of the world). There is thus still going to be a new Sburb session spawned from it. 2). The scratch has reset Bilious Slick and thus revived him, but Jack could destroy him again if PM does not stop him. Jack of course can't not (ugh) exist because of the scratch, because he was outside of its influence just like the kids and trolls were. In fact he escaped from the medium when he noticed the scratch was taking place, as stated by Hussie explicitly.
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Oct 31, 2011 23:28
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Nate RFB posted:I think there are two notions as to what the destroyed universe / scratched universe mean for each other, and we don't necessarily know which yet: While I can't say with any actual certainty since the story hasn't continued, I can say I really, really expect it to be #1. #2 seems...odd. Nonsensical, almost.
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Oct 31, 2011 23:31
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Gabriel Pope posted:It made her dream bubble scene particularly poignant, because it's perhaps the first time in the story that she's had to face consequences head on (apparently) without any way to weasel out of them. code:
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Oct 31, 2011 23:33
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Gabriel Pope posted:If there's a reason to hope for a Vriska from the hypothetical beta timeline where she fought Jack to show up, it's this. I'd be interested to see how she'd handle defeating Jack and then just having to hang around with everyone dead and nobody to lord it over. Zoolooman posted:Okay, then I must have misread you. I got the impression you were definitely asserting that, barring further information to the contrary, Jack's actions in the trolls' medium would not affect the reset universe.
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Oct 31, 2011 23:33
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Seoinin posted:I was nodding in agreement w/ your post and making little "mm-hmm" noises until this point right here. Vriska ain't owning up to poo poo in the dream bubbles. If anything she's just mildly irked that she got shivved like a total chump. I'll confess my interpretation may be a little bit too hopeful at this point, but she did at least have a really good OH poo poo moment; compared to how she'd typically reacted to adverse consequences, this is at least progress of a sort. EDIT: Also since I forgot to bring it up in the last post, one of my favorite lines in Homestuck is during the Vriska/Terezi confrontation flash when Vriska admits she was responsible for killing Tavros and then immediately appends "I guess" with a puzzled look on her face. Even at that late point in the story, after all her heart-to-heart talk with John, she still has trouble understanding this whole responsibility concept. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 1, 2011 |
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Oct 31, 2011 23:57
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Gabriel Pope posted:It's why, ultimately, Terezi's attempts to reason with Vriska were doomed to fail--Vriska did not want to hear that she could possibly be responsible for anything bad, so her perfectly reasonable warning fell on deaf ears. I don't think what Terezi did can count as trying to reason with Vriska. She went into that confrontation with the intent to kill, and the conversation was about manipulating Vriska into giving her a free shot. Terezi might have honestly tried to reason with her if she didn't think Vriska had already gone full crazy and started a murder spree, and with Terezi’s expert manipulation powers she'd have probably succeeded in convincing Vriska to stop, but Gamzee had chucklevoodooed Terezi into believing bad evidence until too late to change the plan. So once Terezi found out Vriska hadn’t gone off the deep end the choice was still either kill Vriska or let her go. At least that’s how I interpret what happened. Because I think it's important that John was really the only person to honestly try to get Vriska to reconsider.
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Nov 1, 2011 00:02
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Zoolooman posted:The pre-Scratch/post-Scratch stuff shouldn't be so hard. Yes, the hard reset has occurred. However, the pre-Scratch universe still existed, and things which left it before the reset have a coherent history going back into that pre-Scratch world. No contradiction there. From the perspective of paradox space, there are two Earths now, pre-Scratch and post-Scratch. Jack destroyed the pre-Scratch universe pretty far into its life. He hasn't touched the post-Scratch universe yet. Building on this, every time we've seen the kid's universe in the context of Bilious Slick, it's always zoomed in on his right eye. (Our left) There's a universe in the other eye, too.
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Nov 1, 2011 00:19
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YggiDee posted:Building on this, every time we've seen the kid's universe in the context of Bilious Slick, it's always zoomed in on his right eye. (Our left) I think those are individual galaxies. I admit I'm not entirely sure what an entire universe looks like but I don't think that's it.
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Nov 1, 2011 00:21
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YggiDee posted:There's a universe in the other eye, too. Those are galaxies, not universes. Our universe is estimated to have 170 billion galaxies. (That's a lot of galaxies). Gabriel Pope posted:I admit I'm not entirely sure what an entire universe looks like It looks like a frog dunkass.
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Nov 1, 2011 00:29
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I just realized Liv Tyler was with Rose and Dave when they created the green sun. Does that mean she's dead now too?
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Nov 1, 2011 01:11
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Gabriel Pope posted:That's what Vriska said! But Kanaya explicitly brought up that example to try to get through to Vriska on a very important point. It's one of the key flaws of Vriska's character: she wilfully refuses to acknowledge the consequences of her own actions. When Vriska painfully trods on the dice lying around on her floor, she chooses to attribute it to cosmic forces of luck and dismisses Kanaya's more pragmatic assessment that this is a logical consequence of leaving her room such a mess. Vriska's worldview does not admit the possibility that her actions (being a slob) can have negative consequences (constantly stepping on painful dice); from a character perspective Kanaya's meddling was a way for her to try to address this broader flaw using a simple concrete example, from a story perspective this introductory conversation served to illustrate what would be one of Vriska's core failings. The alternate timeline/hypothetical future-reading Terezi did was really the only time that Vriska was in a situation where everything was undeniably her fault.
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Nov 1, 2011 01:44
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I was in the process of asking if Jade left behind enough recyclable material for the new universe to have Dad, Mom, and Bro as players, but then I realized they all died on worlds that Jade packed when she left the universe. I miss Bro 
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Nov 1, 2011 01:56
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So I guess Jade just left the entire population of Derse to be erased 
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Nov 1, 2011 02:10
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:So I guess Jade just left the entire population of Derse to be erased I'm sure that they'll come back in the scratched session. Maybe even WV and CD will survive this time. Maybe.
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Nov 1, 2011 02:13
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Someone went and made a pretty sweet-looking Homestuck title screen (may not work in some browsers).
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Nov 1, 2011 02:16
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:So I guess Jade just left the entire population of Derse to be erased She left Prospit too. Jack only destroyed the moon right?
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Nov 1, 2011 02:17
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creationist believer posted:She left Prospit too. Jack only destroyed the moon right? Pretty sure Jack slaughtered everyone in Prospit, or nearly everyone, and that all the survivors boarded WQs ship that escaped.
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Nov 1, 2011 02:19
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Arrhythmia posted:I'm sure that they'll come back in the scratched session. Maybe even WV and CD will survive this time. WV didn't die. Yet anyway.
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Nov 1, 2011 02:21
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Gnome de plume posted:Someone went and made a pretty sweet-looking Homestuck title screen (may not work in some browsers). This is pretty awesome.
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Nov 1, 2011 02:30
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Boogaleeboo posted:WV didn't die. Yet anyway. Do you actually have a reason or is it just because we didn't see DEAD next to him in the flash? Because I am all for hoping characters are alive or will come back like with Vriska or Nepeta but come on he has a fist sized hole in his stomach. The "obvious" good-feeling ending is that PM will beat Jack and give WV the ring and he'll live but this is Homestuck. Everything will go wrong. If PM manages to beat jack we'll get a panel of here putting the ring on WV's finger and it not doing anything because he's already dead or something else equally as terrible.
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Nov 1, 2011 03:02
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Welp, looked at the track art for Do You Remem8er Me and now I'm sad as gently caress again for gently caress's sake Volume 8. At least this time it's more of a combination of the art and the song itself. It keeps happening
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Nov 1, 2011 03:07
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WV can't be dead (at least, not permanently) because he hasn't eaten the green sun yet.
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Nov 1, 2011 03:07
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Wrist Watch posted:Do you actually have a reason or is it just because we didn't see DEAD next to him in the flash? Umm, that's exactly what he's saying? PM brought WV with her because he isn't dead *yet*, so there's at least some chance of him surviving. Whether that's likely to occur or not is a completely different question.
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Nov 1, 2011 03:16
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So I just spent the last half hour reading through Xamag's Tumblr. Man, is she talented.
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Nov 1, 2011 03:37
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So I trimmed down the Galactic Cancer art to avatar-size. Does this look okay, or does anyone think it might be too murky?
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Nov 1, 2011 03:52
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Oxxidation posted:So I trimmed down the Galactic Cancer art to avatar-size. Does this look okay, or does anyone think it might be too murky? I thought that the frog up-top would look better but Karkat looks good too. Though if I were you, I'd add a black border around it, like with mine.
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Nov 1, 2011 03:59
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I just finished re-reading Problem Sleuth and will probably start Homestuck from the beginning some time soon, since it's practically the anniversary of my re-discovery of MSPaint Adventures. The Higgs Bonehead is one of my favorite jokes in Problem Sleuth and I'm really not sure why. I think MSPA in general needs more particle physics jokes.
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Nov 1, 2011 04:14
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Arrhythmia posted:I thought that the frog up-top would look better but Karkat looks good too. Though if I were you, I'd add a black border around it, like with mine. Like this? Hard to see since it's black on dark blue, but I'm pretty sure it's the usual 1 px size: 
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Nov 1, 2011 04:15
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DaveKap posted:
Quoting from waaay back but I figured I'd call dibs on this gif for a new avatar, it's about time I updated mine anyway. I like the easy/hard mode stuff people have been posting; it's been nice re-reading a lot of the funny moments I almost forgot about while plowing my way through the series. I started reading Homestuck right about the time the hiatus began when Hussie was working on [S] Cascade; it's kind of mind-boggling how dense the story is with content! Thanks to this thread and the Homestuck wiki, it's been a lot easier to parse out what's been going on. I'm happy I got up to speed right before the new updates are starting, so I'm looking forward to what's next. My Easy Mode pick would have to be [S] Jack: Ascend, since that was definitely the point when Homestuck really started to draw me in. It's such a great "oh poo poo" moment. As for Hard Mode, the flashback to Tavros flarping was one of the moments that stuck in my head among the sea of new characters that were introduced when I first read Hivebent. I feel like it captured Tavros's personality pretty well and made him more memorable than some of the other trolls. Poor Tavros; it's tough being a cripple when you idolize someone who can fly
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Nov 1, 2011 04:20
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While we wait on the next act for the next week or so, and seeing as how as a mod I'm allowed to twist the rules to post this, you ought to take this chance to read the other very popular and exceedingly well done science-fantasy story-based webcomic on our fine little internet: Gunnerkrigg Court. It is very very good and was won a bunch of awards and everything. Even popular gothic-fantasy-England novelist Neil Gaiman thinks you should be reading Gunnerkrigg Court. Gunnerkrigg Court is about the eponymous Court, a research institution slash boarding school located somewhere in the United Kingdom. More specifically it follows Antimony Carver, a girl who has an excessively large number of supernatural things happen to her, and Katerina Donlan, Lover of Double Physics, as they explore the mysteries surrounding the Court (both figuratively and literally). It involves robots, gods, magic, science, more robots, mythological creatures, lots of weirdness, and robots. It may or may not also be about a pigeon with the shiniest of neck feathers and his adventures in romance and being a human businessman. It's certainly a very different sort of story comic from Homestuck/ MS Paint Adventures (you won't see any coolkids pesterchum iceburning trolls with their coolkiditude or anything, though you will see Laser Cows owning coolkids with their razor wit), but it's as good in its approach to the story telling medium as Homestuck is to its own. It tends to be very relaxed but very even with its pacing and story, and it seems like Tom is very precise and careful with how fast you learn things about the world and characters. It is also very funny and cute and awesome, much like Homestuck! The arts start a lil rough early on, but Tom really evolves his style over it to really awesome stylistic directions. He's particularly good at creatures and monsters:  Later you will see Lindsey here involved in a horrible psychic make out session. Some things are the same, I suppose. Read this comic. (Don't use this as an excuse to post other comics for people to read, this is me abusing power. To your benefit!)
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Nov 1, 2011 05:08
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That's definitely on my "One of these days" list. I don't really need another webcomic I'm really into but won't be finished for years right now. Maybe when it's finished. Oh hey, a thought - reset-PM, WV, AR, WK, and WQ. I guess the midnight crew too. They'll all be back in the new session, right? Well not the same ones, naturally, but new copies. I hadn't thought about it much, but I guess with the way sBurb works it's just the same carapace-people getting reborn again and again forever. I really hope some instance (this new instance, maybe?) of them get to break free from the cycle and live in peace. It kind of reminds me of that book the Zero Punctuation guy wrote, Mogworld. The protagonists are all fantasy characters from an MMORPG game that went sentient. The story is about a developer going on a power-trip while the game is in development and trying to rule it like a god. The story ends with basically the entire world deleted and the main character, one of the random mooks from the game, finally aware of the nature of his existence and how utterly he's failed to save it. The only positive light is that he helped another developer bring down the crazy one, and that developer gained sympathy for the plight of the computer characters they'd made by his interactions with the protagonist. So, when they recreated the game from a backup, they changed it to be about helping the inhabitants of the game world and making the world a better place for them to live in. Which is all well and good, and it included a copy of the protagonist who had never gone through the experiences of the hero, but our actual protagonist still died in failure in an empty plane of nothingness with his world deleted around him.
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Nov 1, 2011 05:21
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I've followed Gunnerkrigg court almost from the start and it's a good thing for sure. I'll tell you what though, following homestuck utterly spoils you for pacing. Even though GC updates like clockwork, I keep loading up the page and thinking 'huh. Still just that one page huh. ho hum.' Meanwhile in the same 2 days homestuck probably has about ten to fifteen giant semi animated panels with maybe 500 - 1000 words to read, all of it gold.
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Nov 1, 2011 05:41
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I could never get into Gunnerkrigg because of how little actual storyline development it feels like there is, even after 30 chapters or whatever.
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Nov 1, 2011 05:43
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senseinobu posted:I just realized Liv Tyler was with Rose and Dave when they created the green sun. Does that mean she's dead now too? She ascended to God Tier as the Sylph of Lips. Of course, in the scratched session, her ectobiological son Steven will be the Prince of Lips. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Nov 1, 2011 |
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Nov 1, 2011 05:44
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Fagtastic posted:I've followed Gunnerkrigg court almost from the start and it's a good thing for sure. That's generally because Hussie uses very deliberately simplified art and sprites to get things done quick. As he said in the recent EoA overview, he personally goes for speed over quality, and if he were solely doing the EoA alone he'd have cheated a lot more on everything and it wouldn't have looked the same. No one is better at using such shortcuts than Hussie, though. Zorak fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Nov 1, 2011 |
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Nov 1, 2011 05:47
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I know, I know. But even aside from sheer panel/text output, the amount of plot we get from MSPA is enormous. It feels like every week we find out something new; solve an old mystery, introduce a new one, or get a twist on our expectations or previous understandings. Obviously that style of pacing, just a kaleidoscopic supernova of a hundred individual subplots all swishin together, turning out insane corkscrew haymakers of a billion dancing plot revelations, isn't going to suit everything and I don't think it would suit Gunnerkrigg Court at all. But you still gotta admit it's pretty slow paced. We're getting drip-fed plot at the tiniest intermittent trickle. Even when we find something important out (which I can recall happening about twice. spoilers: Who the ghost is, and the recent thing with Annie's heritage) it's hard to be excited by them because everything else is such a complete mystery. Even Girl Genius moves faster. If it hadn't gotten so incredibly nice to look at (after a shaky couple of chapters at the start) I don't know how well it would hold up. Luckily it's almost certainly the best drawn thing on the internet that actually updates. Fagtastic fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Nov 1, 2011 |
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Nov 1, 2011 06:08
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Fagtastic posted:But you still gotta admit it's pretty slow paced. We're getting drip-fed plot at the tiniest intermittent trickle. Except the plot is largely following the lives of the characters involved. While it's still very much about learning about the world around them, there isn't no crisis imminently going on on that the pacing detracts from. We're following the characters involved as we learn more about them and they do their thing. Hell, if we were to go off the last "chapter" in terms of "REVELATIONS", we basically learned a ton about every character in the main character's "class" that matters, as well about Bud. Lots of character drama happened. We also learned about the world through it at the same time, which is largely the point. Slowly we learn more about the world of the Court through all these interactions. There's more to a conventional plot than just "things that happen to people and the audience". Otherwise something such as "character dramas" wouldn't exist. And not all character dramas are soaps. Still, I was just putting it out here. This thread shouldn't really become Gunnerkrigg discussion! If people are curious about it, there's the link, if not their loss!
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Nov 1, 2011 06:18
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If Gunnerkrigg Court was the most popular comic on earth, it would still not be getting enough love.
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