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Cicero posted:If they have you "write out the code by hand," wouldn't you just type it up in a text editor? Intellisense baby. /s
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Oct 21, 2011 20:12
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I'm thinking of getting out of the job that i'm currently in. A web developer earning £14,000 a year. Management that has had me working on silly design stuff for months, and now expects full twitter / facebook / google integration (getting a users contacts list, logging in, posting through our systems) within 5 working days. "Just plug it in". Even with no experience of doing that stuff I think that's an incredibly unrealistic expectation for one person on my salary. I guess the trouble is, if I just up and leave this company right now (I've been working there for 3 months). Would that look like I've done something wrong to someone reading that CV? I'm going into this as someone who dropped out of university in the final year (for other reasons, I could handle the work) and still has little industry experience.
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Oct 22, 2011 17:17
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optiuum posted:I'm thinking of getting out of the job that i'm currently in. A web developer earning £14,000 a year. Management that has had me working on silly design stuff for months, and now expects full twitter / facebook / google integration (getting a users contacts list, logging in, posting through our systems) within 5 working days. "Just plug it in". Even with no experience of doing that stuff I think that's an incredibly unrealistic expectation for one person on my salary. I guess the trouble is, if I just up and leave this company right now (I've been working there for 3 months). Would that look like I've done something wrong to someone reading that CV? 1) If you think it's unrealistic, say so and explain why. As the developer you know what assumptions and conventions are baked into the codebase and thus what seemily big new features are easy and what supposedly trivial changes are an utter nightmare to implement. It's pretty common for managers to have optimistic expectations. 2) I don't see what your salary has to do with it. You're on 14k because that's what they can get away with paying you. Your salary does not determine your skill. By the sounds of it, you want to quit because it's a supposedly hard task. Programming/development is hard. It can often involve stuff you've not done before. 3) Yes, if someone has only 3 months at a job on their CV, it raises flags. The potential employer is going to want to know why you left the job - sometimes it's because the developer doesn't really know what he wants to do with his career. What's going to be your answer? "I didn't know how to google OAuth"?
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Oct 22, 2011 18:30
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Managing expectations is a very important skill. Now is the time to learn it.
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Oct 22, 2011 18:34
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Milotic posted:1) If you think it's unrealistic, say so and explain why. As the developer you know what assumptions and conventions are baked into the codebase and thus what seemily big new features are easy and what supposedly trivial changes are an utter nightmare to implement. It's pretty common for managers to have optimistic expectations. Thanks for your reply. I have explained why, and constantly said to these people that making sure this stuff works is really job #1. Its been pushed back to job #20 anyway. If management isn't listening, there's only so much I can do about that. I think i've worded my previous question in the wrong way. What I mean is, if this stuff keeps happening and i'm working 100+ hour weeks to sort this stuff at the last minute for very low pay. Should I be considering quitting and maybe leaving the job off the CV. Save myself another 9 months of misery and consider starting again.
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Oct 22, 2011 21:15
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optiuum posted:Thanks for your reply. I have explained why, and constantly said to these people that making sure this stuff works is really job #1. Its been pushed back to job #20 anyway. If management isn't listening, there's only so much I can do about that. Well if they're always ignoring your advice, and you're doing 100+ hour weeks for 14k then yes. That puts a different spin on things.  Any future employer would see that as bad management and also them taking the piss. You should only be doing those sorts of hours on that salary if you're also getting overtime. If they want that sort of commitment from you, they need to be offering the right incentives - either good compensation or interesting work that you find engaging.
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Oct 22, 2011 21:49
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optiuum posted:Thanks for your reply. I have explained why, and constantly said to these people that making sure this stuff works is really job #1. Its been pushed back to job #20 anyway. If management isn't listening, there's only so much I can do about that. If you don't think their expectation is realistic (it isn't), then you need to provide them with a more realistic timeline. Tell them each piece of the project, the effort involved, why that effort is involved. If you can deliver individual features, let them choose what order the features are delivered in. The time line should be given in terms of a normal work-week, not an insane 100 hour work-week. If they still refuse to listen to reason, then get the gently caress out of there as fast as possible, and learn from your mistake in working there.
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Oct 22, 2011 22:35
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optiuum posted:£14,000 a year  You need to man the gently caress up. lovely pay, unrealistic expectations, unreal hours - make them choose ONE out of three. I'm not saying you should necessarily quit, but they obviously have a problem with managing the projects, and you shouldn't take poo poo because of it. How the hell could you be paid in pound sterling (and shittily at that) but agree to work 100 hour weeks because of their unrealistic project management? You could tell your manager that yes, you could work 100 hours and "just plug it in", but developers who are pressured and work overtime will always cut corners. If you're working under pressure to meet unrealistic deadlines, then you won't have time or inclination to properly analyze what you're doing, and instead going for the easiest and most obvious way to "just plug it in" and make it work quickly. They may have their features in 5 days if they force you to do 100 hour weeks, but there will be no thought going into security, reliability, testing, scalability, flexibility, documentation, reuse, etc of your code, and once it runs into problems, it's going to cost much more to fix what you had to hack together.
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Oct 22, 2011 23:49
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Cicero posted:If they have you "write out the code by hand," wouldn't you just type it up in a text editor? 
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Oct 23, 2011 01:08
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How early is too early to start looking for/applying to a summer internship? I recently had someone tell me that I should be looking now for next summer, but that sounded like total BS to me.
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Oct 25, 2011 01:26
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Now is not too early. Microsoft is already interviewing interns for the summer of 2012.
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Oct 25, 2011 01:33
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Check around the see if companies have anything posted, and then check again in February/March. Chances are some of the ones posted in the fall will be taken by the time winter comes.
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Oct 25, 2011 01:33
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Chasiubao posted:Now is not too early. Microsoft is already interviewing interns for the summer of 2012. Yeah especially for international hires since the Visa application can take a while.
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Oct 25, 2011 04:31
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For us, if you wait until January or February, most of the spots are already full and you're up against a lot of competition for way fewer spots.
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Oct 25, 2011 04:56
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bear shark posted:How early is too early to start looking for/applying to a summer internship? I recently had someone tell me that I should be looking now for next summer, but that sounded like total BS to me. I flew out for a second round interview with Microsoft two weeks ago (I was going for full time, but there were several internship applicants in my group). Definitely start as soon as possible.
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Oct 25, 2011 05:28
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Oh man I had no idea  Time to get cracking!
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Oct 25, 2011 07:52
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The internship field is astonishingly full of seekers. I had no idea how crazy it is until I went to a career fair at my alma mater last month reppin' R&D at my company. We had first-year freshmen - people who had started college six weeks ago - handing us resumes. A few colleagues of mine have had similar experiences at other schools. I really don't remember that kind of pressure when I was in school. Are academic advisors saying "get an internship or die trying" instead of "hello welcome to State Tech home of the Fighting Animals" these days?
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Oct 25, 2011 14:16
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csammis posted:I really don't remember that kind of pressure when I was in school. Are academic advisors saying "get an internship or die trying" instead of "hello welcome to State Tech home of the Fighting Animals" these days? This is all just part of the whole join-ten-extracurriculars apply-to-fifty-schools rat race for overachieving nincompoops.
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Oct 25, 2011 18:27
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csammis posted:The internship field is astonishingly full of seekers. I had no idea how crazy it is until I went to a career fair at my alma mater last month reppin' R&D at my company. We had first-year freshmen - people who had started college six weeks ago - handing us resumes. A few colleagues of mine have had similar experiences at other schools. I get the opposite impression. The tech companies seem to be fighting to offer the best salaries/perks to the small pool of competent CS kids.
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Oct 25, 2011 18:44
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Well I'm graduating next December, so I should probably be doing something soon. My program isn't so pushy as to send freshmen to job fairs though, if anything they expect people to network on their own or default to one of the various financial and insurance companies downtown.
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Oct 25, 2011 20:21
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csammis posted:The internship field is astonishingly full of seekers. I had no idea how crazy it is until I went to a career fair at my alma mater last month reppin' R&D at my company. We had first-year freshmen - people who had started college six weeks ago - handing us resumes. A few colleagues of mine have had similar experiences at other schools. This has been my experience too when recruiting out of career fairs. For every one person looking for full time work there were probably 7 or 8 intern applicants, and a lot were not exactly anywhere close to qualified (even got a few humanities majors handing in resumes with no documented CS course work or experience). I graduated from undergrad in 2003, and even then my CS department was drilling the idea into people's heads that they were utter worthless human beings unless they had lined up internships or were working as some professor's research lackey in addition to their coursework. In the years after I went to college there have been plenty more of the "do 100 extracurriculars, apply to 27 universities, etc" kids coming to universities, so I can certainly imagine there are people just shotgunning the internship applications all over the place. kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Oct 25, 2011 |
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Oct 25, 2011 21:45
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I have an interesting interview coming up some time next week. I actually never applied for a job with the company, but they received my resume from the IT Dept. chair at my school. It's a web development contract company, and they deal mostly with Wordpress and Magento (Which I've never heard of). Last quarter, I took an open source frameworks class which was awful- we spent the whole time jumping from 1 framework to another instead of actually learning how to use any of them. I'm confident in my skills as a programmer, but Wordpress is pretty foreign to me. What are some things I should really know about it? I'm just so desperate for a real job right now, it's embarrassing. Plan on reading as much I can about it later after work today. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 13:52
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Sab669 posted:I'm confident in my skills as a programmer, but Wordpress is pretty foreign to me. What are some things I should really know about it? It's completely horrible. The code and design is a complete mess. This is not hyperbole. (So if you're looking at its code and wondering "Why did they do this?", an example of an implausible explanation would be something like "I'm sure there's a good reason.")
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Oct 26, 2011 20:23
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I'm graduating in December, when should I start applying to jobs? Is there a good rule or is it more case by case?
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Oct 26, 2011 23:53
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NotHet posted:I'm graduating in December, when should I start applying to jobs? Is there a good rule or is it more case by case? You should have been applying already.
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Oct 26, 2011 23:59
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Heh, I don't graduate for another year and I've been on the hunt like a madman. What's the worst thing that will happen if you start now? There's a few possible outcomes -You get an interview, they feel you're competent and offer you a job right now -You get an interview, they don't like you and you're back at square one (and have interview experience!) -You get an interview, they don't hire you for a full-time development position but offer you an internship or liked your personality and want you to come back when you graduate -You don't get any interviews, and you're back at square one again There is no harm in trying to look for a job now.
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Oct 27, 2011 00:01
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NotHet posted:I'm graduating in December, when should I start applying to jobs? Is there a good rule or is it more case by case?
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Oct 27, 2011 00:07
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NotHet posted:I'm graduating in December, when should I start applying to jobs? Is there a good rule or is it more case by case? Summer of 2011.
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Oct 27, 2011 00:14
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Sab669 posted:Heh, I don't graduate for another year and I've been on the hunt like a madman. Seriously, this isn't a bad idea anyway. If you land an internship the summer before you graduate, and you manage not to gently caress it up while working that summer, your odds are pretty good in terms of getting fast-tracked for a full time position after graduation.
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Oct 27, 2011 06:04
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pigdog posted:
We had that conversation this week. The boss seems to think this project will be the next facebook (it won't), and that I should take the hit now for future rewards. But only if I "believe it". He seems to base this on the predictions of a self proclaimed internet psychologist. There was some talk of other investors pushing for subcontracting the work out. To be fair, there was also some offer of moving to the parent company if this doesn't work out. Very vague, no mention of salary or role. I didn't take it very seriously. I have done the best I can in the time available and started to line up interviews for next week. optiuum fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 00:42
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Does anyone know the feasibility of getting a job without a degree currently? Background: I am currently a junior* in a CS program at my university. Due to finances, however, it looks like I won't be able to actually pay for this semester, let alone future ones, unless I get a job**. The problem is at the moment I don't have a decent project that I can point to and be like "Yeah, this is something I did"; I lost my work from previous semesters in a hard-drive crash, along with some other little projects I was working on. (I've since started hosting my stuff in a private repo on github -- educational acct) My GPA isn't spectacular either (~2.8 overall,~3.2 or so in major). I guess I was wondering if I'd have a shot at getting an entry level position, or if I should just go look for a random unrelated job just for the cash. I'm in the Pittsburgh area if it matters. Oh, and I can program in more than just Java, though I'm not sure if that matters for entry level poo poo. * I'm actually 22, I had some personal issues that sorta put a hamper on my studies for a while ** I'm not eligible for federal aid at the moment, and it's not extremely likely that I'll get it again in the future
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Oct 31, 2011 03:59
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Look Around You posted:Does anyone know the feasibility of getting a job without a degree currently? It depends on how smart you are. Look Around You posted:I lost my work from previous semesters in a hard-drive crash, along with some other little projects I was working on. Then reimplement them or implement something else. Look Around You posted:(I've since started hosting my stuff in a private repo on github -- educational acct) My GPA isn't spectacular either (~2.8 overall,~3.2 or so in major). I guess I was wondering if I'd have a shot at getting an entry level position, or if I should just go look for a random unrelated job just for the cash. Then don't list your GPA. You'd have a shot, assuming you can actually write code. Look Around You posted:** I'm not eligible for federal aid at the moment, and it's not extremely likely that I'll get it again in the future You don't need federal aid to get student loans. Unless you're actually really bad at programming, I would not suggest going and getting a random unrelated job just for the cash. That's a slow way to earn money, and if you plan on actually finishing your degree, it makes much much much more financial sense to take a loan to do it ASAP and then get a job as a developer after you've graduated. What about internships? What if instead of getting a "random unrelated job," you got an internship and extended it through a semester or two? Software development internships pay well relative to random unrelated jobs. You're a junior, haven't you been doing internships already? Would your previous employers not want to hire you for a year?
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Oct 31, 2011 04:57
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shrughes posted:It depends on how smart you are. I know private loans are an option, but I would need a cosigner and I don't have anyone that would cosign (already asked my parents and grandparents, nobody else in my family would even have the credit). And I haven't had an internship yet.. there's a pretty long story behind it, but it comes down to the fact that I was having a hell of a time finding a major till like last year, so while I had most of the basic courses done for CS, I didn't even know if that was what I had wanted to do at the time. The plus side is I have my gen-eds done, the downside is I haven't had an internship or anything yet. I applied for a development job at a research lab in a different academic department, but I haven't heard back yet (I probably will by the end of the week).
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Oct 31, 2011 21:29
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Look Around You posted:And I haven't had an internship yet.. there's a pretty long story behind it, but it comes down to the fact that I was having a hell of a time finding a major till like last year, so while I had most of the basic courses done for CS, I didn't even know if that was what I had wanted to do at the time. The plus side is I have my gen-eds done, the downside is I haven't had an internship or anything yet. I applied for a development job at a research lab in a different academic department, but I haven't heard back yet (I probably will by the end of the week). Where I work, a lifelong commitment and interest in computers and programming is seen as nearly essential. Probably grew out of the dot com era where everyone was throwing their hat into the ring for the money. It sounds like you have roughly one year of programming experience ever. You're going to be competing against people who have been programming since they were 12. Edit: I'm just trying to say, you need to either have more experience than it seems or have utterly worked your rear end off for the time you've been learning to be even remotely competent. baquerd fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Oct 31, 2011 |
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Oct 31, 2011 21:34
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But, that said, even if he's in the "newcomer to the wonderful world of programming" camp, so is the "average" computer science student. I know lots of people fitting that description who were able to find internships during undergrad; while they might not be as mind-blowingly awesome as someone who's been doing kernel hacking since they were 8, it's certainly possible to find a co-op term as an "ordinary" CS major.
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Oct 31, 2011 22:19
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baquerd posted:Where I work, a lifelong commitment and interest in computers and programming is seen as nearly essential. Probably grew out of the dot com era where everyone was throwing their hat into the ring for the money. It sounds like you have roughly one year of programming experience ever. You're going to be competing against people who have been programming since they were 12. Nope, I've been programming since like 9th grade. I just wasn't a CS major all through college. I'm definitely not a newcomer, I just haven't been in the major an extremely long time. I definitely know what you mean about how it looks though.
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Oct 31, 2011 22:45
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Look Around You posted:I know private loans are an option, but I would need a cosigner and I don't have anyone that would cosign (already asked my parents and grandparents, nobody else in my family would even have the credit). You can get a Stafford loan without a co-signer. Before quitting college I would talk to your financial aid department about your options for paying tuition. Also, go talk to you Co-op department or CS department about an internship. If you are good at CS there is no reason to quit with 3-4 semesters left before graduation to go be a barrista.
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Nov 1, 2011 16:01
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gariig posted:You can get a Stafford loan without a co-signer. Before quitting college I would talk to your financial aid department about your options for paying tuition. Also, go talk to you Co-op department or CS department about an internship. If you are good at CS there is no reason to quit with 3-4 semesters left before graduation to go be a barrista. He's probably maxing out his unsubsidized and subsidized Stafford as well as Pell and his state's equivalent of TAP and only halfway at the total for the semester. poo poo might be real difficult for a while, but even if he determines he Can't Pay at his current school he's better off transferring to a cheaper state school than dropping entirely imo
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Nov 1, 2011 16:56
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What sort of answers, generally speaking, should one give to the whole, "Where do you see yourself in X years" question? I had an interview a few weeks ago, and the guy asked that, and asked if I'd like to see myself in a project management sort of position at some point in the future. I tend to be fairly frank with people, so I told him I had no interest in project management. I've taken classes focused on such a topic and much prefer to be sitting at the keyboard hacking away code instead. I of course don't remember verbatim what I said, but more or less that was it. Never heard back from them. I felt the interview went well, though it was very very short- so I was confused where I went wrong. I've got another interview tomorrow morning and I'm just thinking of what questions give me trouble, normally. e; Also, I suppose it differs from employer to employer but this job would be a work from home kind of deal. How exactly does this work? Am I to sit at my home computer each day 8-5 and code, or is it more of a "get this work done whenever you can so long as it's done by this date"? An employer I've talked to in the past leaned more towards the latter, but I wasn't sure if that was the norm. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Nov 1, 2011 |
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Nov 1, 2011 23:14
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Sab669 posted:What sort of answers, generally speaking, should one give to the whole, "Where do you see yourself in X years" question? What you said is fine. The only really bad answer there is "I would like to remain in my cubicle churning out code". Say something that indicates you have ambition, like how you'd like to be leading projects/designing large scale whatevers/involved with clients/managing a team/blah blah blah. e: For the working from home stuff, there'll probably be an expectation that you're contactable during business hours via phone/email/instant messenger, but you can do your actual work any time you want so long as it gets done on time.
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