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Lola was such a good dog today. The postman came three times, and each time she was perfectly quiet when I left her in the living room to go to the door. Then, I had to take something very large and heavy up to the top of town (~twenty minute walk with the big old box). I decided to take Lola with me, so her leash was tied to my belt loop. The whole way up she was nigh on perfect (staring at some things, but no vocalisations), barely pulling at all, even though I couldn't give her any treats. She was even quiet when I was talking to my friend for five minutes or so - I was holding her because I couldn't concentrate on her on the floor and talk, and although she had no interest whatsoever in greeting my friend she didn't growl at him or anything (and people talking to me/her is one of her BIGGEST triggers).  --- quote:And then she was saying that she doesn't think the dog means the growling because she wags her tail sometimes when she growls, quote:But I don't think roommate will be up for clickers because she "doesn't want the dog to get too attached to food." sigh. quote:And yeah, the correction/praise thing was surreal. She would go from "NO" and then right when she finished "NO" she would have her hand on her head petting her and praising her. Of course the dog sat in her lap the whole time this is happening. quote:On top of all this happening today, last week the grate part of my fan fell off onto Dexter.
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Oct 25, 2011 19:30
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Fraction posted:Lola was such a good dog today. Awesome!  Go Lola!Fraction posted:I remember reading somewhere (no idea what the source, so grain of salt and all that) that a dog's tail wagging just shows a desire to interact. Whether that interaction will be positive or negative depends on the rest of the body language. It's a pretty good way for me to describe to people why a wagging dog is not necessarily a dog that wants to be your buddy. Fraction posted:Could you explain to her that dogs need something to work for -- like people wouldn't work for free? That food is a wage: and as people want higher wages/better incentives to do more strenuous or difficult tasks, so too do dogs. Fraction posted:Lola is such a scaredy cat with some things. Jacks tend to be really highly strung anyway, and I'm not sure if Dex will ever be entirely comfortable with the fan being on now. I think if you want to try though, you'll be best going through classical conditioning with him/the fan. I moved the fan to the living room and I might try bringing a smaller fan into the room and see if that one causes any problems. I tried sitting on the bed in front of the fan(while it was off) and opened up a jar of peanut butter. You could tell he wanted it, but was way too afraid of the fan to come closer. I am so used to him being a confident little punkass, so seeing him shivering in the closet and cautiously walking through the apartment because he is afraid the other dog will charge him is kind of killing me  Also, I am going to look into getting him an plastic airline crate for him today when I go out shopping. I keep hearing stories of dogs trying to break out of wire crates and the crates collapsing on them/the dog getting stuck and dying. I already take his collar off anytime he is in the crate to reduce the chances of things happening, but I am still a little worried about it. Also the mostly solid sides would be awesome for Dexter because he is apparently determined to pull everything he can into the crate. One positive thing with Dexter's training/reactivity problems: He greeted two dogs on leash today and didn't react whatsoever. I am 100% positive that he only turns into psycho killer dog when we are in the apartment complex parking lot.
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Oct 25, 2011 19:44
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cryingscarf posted:Awesome! Lola is getting much better in general too. Tt's now the rare event that we'll go through town and she'll vocalise at a person (dogs are still another story though  ), rather than it being the norm for her to bark 2-3 times at least.cryingscarf posted:I told her to not judge by the tail and that it doesn't always mean yay happy things. Who knows if anything actually registered with her or not though Some people have trouble grasping that dog with wagging tail =/= friendly dog. It's probably due to a lot of parents telling their kids not to approach a dog unless its tail is wagging, etc. It's a pain being a total doglady when the people around you aren't, I know. Good luck though! cryingscarf posted:I moved the fan to the living room and I might try bringing a smaller fan into the room and see if that one causes any problems. I tried sitting on the bed in front of the fan(while it was off) and opened up a jar of peanut butter. You could tell he wanted it, but was way too afraid of the fan to come closer. I am so used to him being a confident little punkass, so seeing him shivering in the closet and cautiously walking through the apartment because he is afraid the other dog will charge him is kind of killing me If he's confident, he should spring back sooner rather than later/never. I'm so used to my scaredy dog now that I forget how normal dogs are  Not sure about the crate thing. I still can't crate Lola when I leave the house because if I'm gone more than five minutes she starts screaming the place down and biting everything in sight and crapping and then standing in it and then she's filthy and poo poo covered and urgh  So I have to leave her in a room where she poops anyway 9 times out of 10.Goddamnit I suck at housetraining cryingscarf posted:One positive thing with Dexter's training/reactivity problems: He greeted two dogs on leash today and didn't react whatsoever. I am 100% positive that he only turns into psycho killer dog when we are in the apartment complex parking lot. He could possibly be (resource) guarding the complex parking lot and trying to get other dogs away from/out of 'his' thing. I'm not sure. Good for you for catching it before he decides to start generalising it though.
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Oct 25, 2011 19:56
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 This is Bella. She is a ridiculous Great Dane. With mucky weather afoot, I'd like to train Bella to sit on the carpet near the door so I can quickly wipe her feet. She's okay with it if I am in front of her and tell her to sit, but sometimes she gets way too excited to bust into the house and bolts upstairs before I can stop her. She's very food motivated and I have treats by the door, but as I said, I want to get her used to stopping and sitting every time. I tried giving her a treat each time she sat and slowly tapering off, but that didn't work. I'd appreciate any advice.
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Oct 26, 2011 01:26
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On bringing new dogs to your home: It depends on the dogs. I brought Naru, the Finnish Lapphund, aged nine weeks home to a situation, where I had an older intact sheltie male and another Finnish Lapphund female with three four week old puppies at home. I basicly dumped her on the floor (at 11 PM) after a trip on the train to get home and by morning time she was happily nursing with the smaller puppies. Of course I knew Naru had been around other puppies besides her littermates, before I allowed her to interact with the others as the age difference was rather large. But this is very much a case of know thy dogs. Mine have lived and otherwise interacted with a bunch of strange dogs throughout their lives and pretty much form one bigger pack with my closest friend's dogs. Also we had an encore of the extra puppy situation last spring, when Lili, a bitch I'd placed under breeding terms, came over to my place to have her litter. My closest friend had a toller litter at the time, which was about three weeks older than my lapphund litter. When they were a bit over seven weeks one of them came over for a visit and took advantage of the situation:  Can you tell which one doesn't belong?  Also Lili's mum, the afore mentioned Naru, did nurse my Healy's litter, as she happened to have her false pregnancy at the same time as Healy had her first litter. Fraction posted:Not sure about the crate thing. I still can't crate Lola when I leave the house because if I'm gone more than five minutes she starts screaming the place down and biting everything in sight and crapping and then standing in it and then she's filthy and poo poo covered and urgh
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Oct 26, 2011 16:14
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Riiseli - she's just under 13 months now. If I go out of the house and she's crated, shes almost instantly screaming, biting and worrying the bars, howling, toileting on herself etc. If I go out of the house and she's confined to a single room, she whines and paces a little but settles quickly. She still toilets if she needs to (on newspaper) but she doesn't get it on herself and is generally much much happier. Toilet wise if I'm in the house, she can be in her crate for 4-5 hours with no toilet break and will just sleep (unless I leave). And if she's loose she very very very rarely has an accident - maybe once over the past three or four months? It doesn't help anyway that my mum is anti leaving Lola in the crate for more than an hour, even if Lola was quiet and good in it 
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Oct 26, 2011 16:47
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Fraction posted:It doesn't help anyway that my mum is anti leaving Lola in the crate for more than an hour, even if Lola was quiet and good in it  Thirteen months is a thad old to not be completely housebroken yet. How do your nights go as far as accidents, none I assume? Have you considered adjusting her nutrition? How often does she go?
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Oct 26, 2011 16:55
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Riiseli posted:I'm anti too, since she isn't even destroying the house, while she's not in the crate. Dogs survive just fine without a crate Yeah she's definitely not seperation-anxious (on another training thing its been suggested she might have some sort of crate anxiety, I dunno) so I'm loathe to force her into the crate. It's just a pain because crating seems to make things easier, heh. Nights wise she hasn't had any problems since maybe 5 months old. She occasionally has a problem with a small amount of pee dribbling out if she gets super excited before the morning toilet time, but she's only got a small bladder sooo. She gets high end food (Wainwrights adult) - not the best of the best but better by miles than your average crap. She does get fed twice a day though, maybe a larger night meal only would be more appropriate? If I'm at home she'll tend to go twice in the morning for both (sau around 8am; first thing waking up, then about half an hour after feeding), once for a pee around 12-1; once for both about 3ish, 7ish and just before I go to bed at 11ish.
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Oct 26, 2011 17:02
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Fraction posted:Yeah she's definitely not seperation-anxious (on another training thing its been suggested she might have some sort of crate anxiety, I dunno) so I'm loathe to force her into the crate. It's just a pain because crating seems to make things easier, heh. So she poops five times a day? I know you excercise her a lot, which does have an affect. I'd still say it sounds like a lot, of course the amount and not the number of times is or isn't the real issue. I follow consistency and compare the amount of food intake to the amount of excrement (volume). There should be a noticeable difference. If there isn't I'll switch foods, even if the food seems to otherwise fit (based on coat quality etc.). I'm not too interested in how good of a quality a food seems to be based on the ingredients, but how it seems to fit my dogs. I just went from Taste of the Wild to Royal Canin, since the former didn't fit Healy. She actually had gas and even slightly watery eyes, which I haven't seen since I switched her from the Purina Pro Plan her first owner fed her to Robur, when she came to me at six months old. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 17:34
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Riiseli posted:But things aren't really easier, if she soils herself and screams, while in crate? I'll second that just because a food is high end, that doesn't mean it will be a good fit for every dog. We fed Psyche Innova for months and things were generally fine except her stool was softish most of the time. Not enough to be alarming but enough to give her gross poopy-butt a lot. When she got bored of the food, we switched to Blue Buffalo and it's a billion times better, her stool is hard and it's a fishy formula so it's great for her coat and she loves it. That does sounds like Lola goes to the bathroom a lot. I kind of like giving dogs variety, it seems silly for them to eat the same thing forever, unless they are super attached to it. I wish I could leave Psyche uncrated during the day, but I'm paranoid she'll eat something she shouldn't. She's not a huge chewer, but she still steals things occasionally and has no problem jumping on tables/desks if not redirected.
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Oct 26, 2011 17:50
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Riiseli posted:But things aren't really easier, if she soils herself and screams, while in crate? Yeah that's true. It's even more of a hassle getting her clean than cleaning up newspaper at least. Riiseli posted:So she poops five times a day? I know you excercise her a lot, which does have an affect. I'd still say it sounds like a lot, of course the amount and not the number of times is or isn't the real issue. I follow consistency and compare the amount of food intake to the amount of excrement (volume). There should be a noticeable difference. If there isn't I'll switch foods, even if the food seems to otherwise fit (based on coat quality etc.). I'm not too interested in how good of a quality a food seems to be based on the ingredients, but how it seems to fit my dogs. I just went from Taste of the Wild to Royal Canin, since the former didn't fit Healy. She actually had gas and even slightly watery eyes, which I haven't since I switched her from the Purina Pro Plan her first owner fed her to Robur, when she came to me at six months old. Around five times a day I think, yeah. I might try waiting until there's less of this food (only got a new 20kg bag a couple weeks ago that I don't really want to get rid of because my other dog does great on it, of course) and then see about changing between different foods. She's been pretty much solidly on Wainwrights, first puppy then adult (with different flavours obviously), since she was about 5 months old too I think. If you don't crate train, how do you get dogs to stop going indoors when you aren't there, by the by?
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Oct 26, 2011 17:51
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^ Would you have room to store another bag of food? I ended up getting Healy something else, while Naru ate the rest of that Taste of the Wild bag. Granted Healy had bigger issues with that particular food than Lola probably has with the one you are feeding her.Fraction posted:If you don't crate train, how do you get dogs to stop going indoors when you aren't there, by the by? My Aura was pretty much housebroken by seven months (moved once when she was 6mos), Naru took until a year (her close relatives have been slow learners too and we moved when she was 6mos and again when she was 10mos) and Healy was housebroken, when she came to me at six months. She did have a relapse probably due to my place being a completely different situation to her previous one. Aura and Healy both had their last accidents during their first heats. Naru wasn't housebroken at that time, so I didn't notice a difference. Naru did have a couple of accidents when she was 2,5yrs old, but those were due to a persistent uti.
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Oct 26, 2011 18:22
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Riiseli posted:^ Would you have room to store another bag of food? I ended up getting Healy something else, while Naru ate the rest of that Taste of the Wild bag. Granted Healy had bigger issues with that particular food than Lola probably has with the one you are feeding her. I guess I do have room yeah. I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can pick something up for the little devil. Would you say to look at an average kind of food and see how that effects her, rather than switching to another 'good' food? Riiseli posted:It's still their home even, if it is bigger than a crate. Ie. I don't really do anything specific. They just grow into being able to hold it for longer durations and will do so even, when I'm away. Usually bladder control takes noticeably longer to develop and bitches may have a slight relapse with it during their first heat. That makes sense. I know JRTs are notorious to housebreak as it is. I have noticed that Lola leaves less mess when she's on her own though - it used to be that if she was left for just hour we'd generally come back to both #1 and #2. Lola was spayed just before her first heat (around 5.5 months old maybe?), so relapsing during heats won't be an issue at least.
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Oct 26, 2011 18:41
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Fraction posted:I guess I do have room yeah. I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can pick something up for the little devil. Would you say to look at an average kind of food and see how that effects her, rather than switching to another 'good' food? Fraction posted:That makes sense. I know JRTs are notorious to housebreak as it is. I have noticed that Lola leaves less mess when she's on her own though - it used to be that if she was left for just hour we'd generally come back to both #1 and #2.
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Oct 26, 2011 18:51
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Writer Cath posted:She's very food motivated and I have treats by the door, but as I said, I want to get her used to stopping and sitting every time. I tried giving her a treat each time she sat and slowly tapering off, but that didn't work. Need some more information here. I may be a while in responding further but I'm sure A Life Less will be along shortly to help too. Describe your attempt to train this in as much detail as possible. What treat did you use, how valuable is it to her, how long did you attempt to train this, and how did you go about "tapering off?" Ideally, your treat would be valuable enough to really get her attention every time and make the behavior you are training a more rewarding experience than bounding into the house to chase or greet whatever she's after. When you begin to remove treats out of the equation, you need to be careful not to be too predictable about it. If you are only treating every third time, the dog can catch this pretty quickly. Variable rate rewards tend to be more motivating than 100% rate rewards, which is why phasing out the food is a good idea -- but you have to remember, if you're rewarding in a manner that is consistent, it's not variable, which is the key. The other potential issue is patience. If tearing off into the house is super fun, you can train that behavior out, but it can take months and you really just have to consistently keep at it until it disappears -- just have faith that it WILL disappear.
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Oct 26, 2011 21:25
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MrFurious posted:Need some more information here. I may be a while in responding further but I'm sure A Life Less will be along shortly to help too. Describe your attempt to train this in as much detail as possible. What treat did you use, how valuable is it to her, how long did you attempt to train this, and how did you go about "tapering off?" The treat isn't very high value, your basic dry doggie treat, but there is a fridge nearby so I can definitely put something a little higher value into the equation. For a week and a half, I would give her the treat each time she came into the house, say, three times a day. After that time, I would give her a treat two out of three times, replacing the treat with praise, but treating the other two times. I'd stay in that pattering - varying which time she got verbal praise - for another week and a half. By the time I got to one treat vs. two praises, she would just bolt past me and I'd start again. Usually she's bolting upstairs to drink/check her food dish to see if anyone was feeling particularly generous or up to her bed. You've been a tremendous help already, thank you.
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Oct 26, 2011 22:03
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Writer Cath posted:The treat isn't very high value, your basic dry doggie treat, but there is a fridge nearby so I can definitely put something a little higher value into the equation. It sounds like you rushed it a bit. You want to keep treating often/ with high value stuff until your dog has it 100%, then slowly taper it. You can also do repetitions-- go outside with her, turn right back around to the door, have her sit, give her a treat and praise, then repeat. When she has it totally down in your practice training sessions after a few days put a word to it. Then use that word when you come in the door for real. We taught our dog "go to your crate" this way. We only put him in the crate 2x a day (once when we're showering, once for bedtime) so teaching him to go there would have taken a really long time if we'd only done it at those times. Instead, we did little fun training sessions, going over sit, down, shake, go to your crate, sit, down, shake, go to your crate, etc. He saw it as a cool game where he learned new things and got delicious treats and now "go to your crate" is his #1 favorite command and he gets so excited when you tell him to go there.
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Oct 26, 2011 23:16
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Writer Cath posted:The treat isn't very high value, your basic dry doggie treat, but there is a fridge nearby so I can definitely put something a little higher value into the equation. In your shoes I'd up the ante on the treat. I'd make it something the dog loves but is still easy -- for us this is string cheese, but every dog is different. I'd also consider clicker training this. We don't use the clicker very often except for shaping certain behaviors, but when you really want to make sure that the dog is getting the message, clickers are excellent tools for marking the right behavior. I'd also keep her on leash when you wipe her paws and keep a hand on the leash. Alternatively you can use a hands-free leash or a euro leash. The point here is that you're not going to give her the opportunity to bolt anymore. If she attempts to bolt, give a no reward marker (if you use one), get up, go back outside and start over. Two weeks of doing that consistently will probably take care of your problem.
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Oct 27, 2011 14:34
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MrFurious posted:Need some more information here. I may be a while in responding further but I'm sure A Life Less will be along shortly to help too. poo poo has hit the proverbial fan in my personal life, so I'll probably not be around much to answer questions in a thorough fashion (or any fashion at all) for the next little while. Thanks for jumping in with some great advice. As for Writer Cath's issue, most people run into trouble when they fade out the rewards way too early. It takes 250 repetitions to successfully build a behaviour. And it takes quite a bit of work to "pay into" a desirable behaviour so that that behaviour eventually becomes more valuable to the dog than the alternative. The more energy, praise, value, play and excitement you pay into a behaviour the more valuable it will become - but it still takes time.
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Oct 27, 2011 17:02
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MrFurious posted:When you begin to remove treats out of the equation, you need to be careful not to be too predictable about it. If you are only treating every third time, the dog can catch this pretty quickly. Variable rate rewards tend to be more motivating than 100% rate rewards, which is why phasing out the food is a good idea -- but you have to remember, if you're rewarding in a manner that is consistent, it's not variable, which is the key. I wanted to add to this. In "The Other End of the Leash" Patricia McConnell makes a great comparison to help understand this. There's a reason slot machines are so successful and bring in a lot of money, because people never know when they're gonna get something good and feel they have to keep trying, because OMG WHAT IF I'M JUST ONE TRY AWAY FROM A JACKPOT?! NO? OKAY MAYBE THE NEXT ONE! However, with a soda machine where you're supposed to get something every time, if it fails once or twice to deliver your soda, how likely are you to try it again? Also if any of you have yet to read "The Other End of the Leash" you really should, it's a fantastic book.
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Oct 29, 2011 15:51
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I wouldn't say we're having problems with Hurley, but he is definitely showing behaviors I don't like at all. He is a 8 1/2 month old Cocker-Spaniel/Poodle. With me, he is nearly a perfect angel all the time. He listens to almost all of my commands, walks on a leash very well, and doesn't get too excited unless we are playing. When my Wife is home, he is a whirling funnel of destruction and terror. He jumps up on her, whines, cries, and barely listens to her at all. We both use clicker training and generally he responds well to that. I can see he is playing favorites, and that's not something I want him to do. He even pissed in front of his crate today because I guess he was angry that my Wife made him sit in the living room while she ate lunch. I don't see that being an "accident" when he just went out not too long ago. He hasn't had an accident in the house since he was new here about 3 months ago. How can we stop this dog from acting like an rear end in a top hat? Are we doing something wrong, or is this just typical "puppy" behavior? It's getting really frustrating. He is not neutered yet, but will be on November 10th. Will this stop all that dumb behavior? epic Kingdom Hearts LP fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 18:27
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get out posted:I wouldn't say we're having problems with Hurley, but he is definitely showing behaviors I don't like at all. He is a 8 1/2 month old Cocker-Spaniel/Poodle. Well, unfortunately, dogs under the age of 2-3 (depending somewhat on breed) are children/teenagers and therefore they ARE assholes. Sorry. I do think you are wrong that your dog pissed in front of his crate because he was angry with your wife. Dogs don't really do the revenge/anger thing. They DO, however, play favorites, though not in the cruel people sense of not loving your children equally or whatever. Dogs just respond to different people in different ways. Some only like the people they know, some like everyone, some hate people with beards, or men, or nervous people...there are a lot of subtle body language and visual cues that dogs respond to that we don't think of because we generalize groups of people (family, friends, enemies) according to our culture and dogs don't get that. So your dog may never respond the same to you as to your wife, though that doesn't mean you can't improve his behavior. Dogs usually respond best to the people that handle them most (duh). However, even there we can draw a line between obeying and behaving (the way people want). I handle/train my dog more than my husband by far and she listens to me more than him and will let me do things that frighten her more than him. But for months after we got her, when he was home, she was behaved and sleeping in a corner somewhere. When I was home, she was all in my face, constantly wanting attention, jumping on me, misbehaving... What I did was teach my dog to 'Say Please' when she wanted attention (she sits and waits for me to acknowledge her, which I make sure to do), I conditioned her to lay down when I was at my desk or watching tv by rewarding her whenever she did so, and I used timeouts in the bathroom or tethering when she was being over-excited (e.g. clawing at my arm which I couldn't just ignore) and needed to calm down. Since I was already the primary trainer, I was also doing things like daily training sessions and feeding her her meals by hand (for tricks/good behavior). I also made sure to really give her attention every once in a while, taking out time for a play break, and helping her bleed off her excess energy. The neutering might help and your dog will most likely settle more with age. I don't want to imply anything, but your wife should make sure she's being patient and ignoring/redirecting the bad behavior as much as possible because negative attention is still attention and will feed whining/crying/attention seeking behaviors. I had many a setback when I just lost my cool and started yelling/acting angry. Remember also that more exercise can only help the situation. I hope that helps!
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Oct 29, 2011 19:09
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Thank you, that was what I needed to hear. I will admit, sometimes I do lose my cool. I feel like a really terrible dog owner for losing patience, but sometimes I just have so much to do in a very short amount of time, and he makes it very difficult. Because of that, I feel like his progress has regressed a tiny bit. I think that my Wife does the same things I do, but with her being absolutely swamped with grad school work, she doesn't get to be as active with him as I am. I guess we will just keep plugging along until he is older. I am going to enroll him in the Petsmart classes just for socialization. He tends to get VERY excited when other dogs are around. What do you think the peeing is from? He hasn't had an accident in a very long time. It's not like him to do that. It has me a little concerned.
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Oct 29, 2011 19:50
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get out posted:Thank you, that was what I needed to hear. I will admit, sometimes I do lose my cool. I feel like a really terrible dog owner for losing patience, but sometimes I just have so much to do in a very short amount of time, and he makes it very difficult. I'm a grad student too, so I can sympathize. My dog is an alarm barker and it is really hard to stay patient with her. You just have to try to do your best and remind yourself not to take it out on the dog. Sometimes, I even have to just get some space. If I need to get work done (I work at home a lot), I do crate her for a few hours or have my husband take her. Crating is better than having the dog around annoying you until you blow up at them. Classes will be really good. It will help you learn to communicate with your dog and learn their body language. The better you can communicate with your dog, the more efficient you will be at teaching your dog which behaviors are acceptable and which aren't. Socialization is, of course, also good, particularly when they get overexcited because that can turn into really obnoxious or even reactive behavior. As for the peeing, it's hard to say because I wasn't there. Dogs do pee as a submissive signal, but I would think that would be pretty obvious (you would have to be there yelling or whatever). More likely you just missed the signal that he wanted to go out. How do you usually tell he needs to go out? It happens sometimes and the last time he peed isn't always a good indication that he doesn't need to again. My dog has, in the past, both held it for 12 hours, and peed several times in ten minutes without taking a drink (I swear her bladder takes up most of her body). If he keeps doing it, I would worry it's a medical issue, but otherwise, just make sure you don't miss the signals and it never hurts to reinforce that outside=bathroom.
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Oct 29, 2011 20:11
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He usually doesn't tell me, I just take him out at set times throughout the week. He sniffs on the ground in our house a lot, so it's hard to tell what is a signal and what isn't. I don't even know how to begin to teach him to tell me when he has to go outside. It sounds like a nightmare. As far as reinforcing that outside is the place to go, do I just click and treat him every time he pees or poops outside?
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Oct 29, 2011 21:26
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get out posted:He usually doesn't tell me, I just take him out at set times throughout the week. He sniffs on the ground in our house a lot, so it's hard to tell what is a signal and what isn't. I don't even know how to begin to teach him to tell me when he has to go outside. It sounds like a nightmare. Teaching a dog to give a signal isn't all that hard, particularly if the dog is already familiar with clicker training. We use a bell and this is how we taught Psyche to ring it to go outside: Step 1: Introduce the bell with your clicker and some treats. Most dogs will go right for a new object when it's put in front of them. If your dog doesn't or is startled away from the sound, then shape him interacting with the bell by clicking and treating any motion toward the bell until he gets that ringing it gets him a treat. Step 2: Put the bell next to the door. Every time you go out, ask your dog to ring the bell first. You can continue to give treats here if your dog is reluctant or just praise and go outside as a reward. If your dog is super, super reluctant, you can even start out ringing the bell yourself, but try to get him to interact with it. Step 3: Continue step 2 until that magical day when your dog rings the bell by himself. Immediately take him out. Step 4: (this is the hardest part) Take your dog outside every time he rings the bell, otherwise you may break the association. If your dog is bell happy and starts ringing it just to go outside and play, then limit the amount of time you spend outside to just bathroom time, so he gets that ringing only gets him a bathroom break and not play time. You can take him out separately for play time. It's a really good idea to have a clear signal and since your dog's signal (sniffing) isn't clear, I would definitely try a bell. Worst comes to worst and he doesn't use it or totally abuses it, you can just take it away or try something else. When reinforcing outside, I don't usually use a clicker, just praise when your dog is finishing up and give a treat. The clicker is very interrupting, I find.
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Oct 29, 2011 21:47
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Skizzles posted:However, with a soda machine where you're supposed to get something every time, if it fails once or twice to deliver your soda, how likely are you to try it again? ("Riding the extinction burst" is really difficult for the trainer to execute well, so I'm not recommending it, but you can use it to amp up the behavior you're building.)
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Oct 30, 2011 10:35
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Yeah most people don't even know what the hell an extinction burst is so I kept poo poo simple since a lot of people, myself included, would say gently caress it and leave if a soda machine didn't cough up. Or we'd go complain to get our $1.50 back. :iamafag:
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Oct 30, 2011 21:47
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Kiri koli posted:Good advice Thanks for everything. We're going to give this a shot soon. As far as the puppy behavior, I was under the impression that by a year old or so, that would stop. I guess not. Haha.
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Oct 30, 2011 22:11
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^^^ No problem. Puppies do a lot of annoying things, but you still don't want them to grow up too fast because there are a lot of exceedingly cute things they do that they'll grow out of too. Has anyone every tried teaching a dog to bark more quietly? We're at a hotel because power has been out at my house for a couple days and Psyche keeps getting startled by people slamming the doors (they're heavy doors, so they slam unless you make an effort to stop them). Barking for her serves two purposes, I think: a warning, which is part of her watchdog breed thing, but also as stress relief for her anxiety. She's laying on the bed right now, half asleep. I've been working to counter-condition the door sounds, so now she's not bothering to get up or even lift her head, but a small bark still comes out when we hear a door slam. It's like barking hiccups sometimes. I don't care if she does that because I really, really unlikely that I'll be able to suppress all her barking and no one can hear it. So I've been praising her for her small barks (which is pretty much the same as praising her for calming down) and I've just been wondering if there was a way I could isolate it and teach her to bark quietly so she's not disturbing the neighbors. Has anyone ever tried this or heard that anyone else tried it?
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Nov 1, 2011 18:22
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Sounds like a good time for shaping, Kiri. Does she bark on cue? If you can get her to bark to a hand signal, you can shape for a softer bark, and then reward for that. Name the cue when it's right. Ask her to do it a lot to build value, then try using it in situations where she'd be likely to bark and after she barks loudly, and it might just quieten her down if the softer barking is rewarded and the louder barking ignored eventually. It'll take a while though if she likes to bark 
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Nov 1, 2011 18:33
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Fraction posted:Sounds like a good time for shaping, Kiri. Does she bark on cue? If you can get her to bark to a hand signal, you can shape for a softer bark, and then reward for that. Name the cue when it's right. Ask her to do it a lot to build value, then try using it in situations where she'd be likely to bark and after she barks loudly, and it might just quieten her down if the softer barking is rewarded and the louder barking ignored eventually. Honestly, I've been scared to put her barking on cue. I couldn't really do it when we lived in an apartment (was always shutting her up as soon as possible), but now our neighbors say they can't hear her, so I should give it a try. I think it will be hard for her because she's used to me using the clicker to counter-condition or play Look At That which sometimes coincides with a bark (I try not to click when she is barking, but it's hard to predict, so it happens...like I said, it's like hiccups, even when she's calming down). I'm just not sure if shaping will work. Somehow I can't imagine her differentiating between volumes and she'll just see barking as barking. But I guess that's silly, dogs have a lot of different barks for different things.
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Nov 1, 2011 19:10
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Reminds me of how one of the trainers at Petsmart trained her Aussie/border mix to bark loudly or quietly depending on the hand signal. She'd hold her hand wide open like a mouth (like you would in a sock puppet) for the loud bark, and then hold her thumb and fingers closer together, like a smaller mouth, for the "little bark." I love her dogs.
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Nov 1, 2011 19:11
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I don't exactly know how to train the quiet bark but here is proof it can be done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NzQqwvp9IY
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Nov 1, 2011 19:25
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Kiri koli posted:Honestly, I've been scared to put her barking on cue. I haven't put barking on a cue because I feel the less barking the better in most circumstances but the one time I egg Major on is when I'm asking him if he wants to go out. If he's just barking at me I tell him its too much and ask again but if he starts to make quiet barks or woo-woos I go ahead and take him for a walk and so he's learned that making noises other than barks gets him what he wants. Now when I ask he almost always makes all sorts of bizarre woo-ing noises that cracks me up. Not quite the same as what you want to do but it can be done.
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Nov 1, 2011 20:10
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I haven't put barking on a cue because I feel the less barking the better in most circumstances but the one time I egg Major on is when I'm asking him if he wants to go out. If he's just barking at me I tell him its too much and ask again but if he starts to make quiet barks or woo-woos I go ahead and take him for a walk and so he's learned that making noises other than barks gets him what he wants. Now when I ask he almost always makes all sorts of bizarre woo-ing noises that cracks me up. Not quite the same as what you want to do but it can be done. 
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Nov 2, 2011 02:09
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I would like to thank all the little trick-or-treaters that helped Pongo go from apeshit barking at the doorbell to NO barking at the doorbell in just four groups of TorTers. I have no idea how to reinforce this. Have Halloween once a week?
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Nov 2, 2011 08:39
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Rhymes With Clue posted:I have no idea how to reinforce this. Have Halloween once a week? But you might tell your friends coming over to ring the bell and prepare to wait for a couple of minutes. I also tried telling my friends to ring my doorbell while they were passing by, but I don't think they ever did.
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Nov 2, 2011 08:57
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Here's a decent video discussing one of the hotter issues of dog training today: Why Cesar Milan Is Yesterday's Dog Trainer Pass it along.
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Nov 3, 2011 19:42
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| # ? May 18, 2024 01:51 |
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Aaaaaaaaaaaand I made the mistake of scrolling down to the comments section. Stupid, stupid. My wife just got another reference book on old working dogs. The terriers of the past are so drat amazing looking from their current show counterparts. There's even an example of a Bedlington that probably looks like the dogs who contributed to Notsoape's little Mouse
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Nov 3, 2011 19:52
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