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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Speaking of him, where is his in-story avatar now? We never saw him go back through that fifth wall THIS IS IMPORTANT
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Nov 2, 2011 16:10
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Whoops, forgot about that page. Glad that's settled, I would have lost sleep over this question!
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Nov 2, 2011 16:12
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I'm really glad that we're getting the reveal on Lord English now, instead of right before the actual climactic battle (though that's me assuming some things about what Act 6 is going to be like.) I like how this works. I was afraid that Lord English would be A. someone we'd never seen before and B. completely nonthreatening. Of course, he's not as scary as we'd imagine, because there's been nearly a year of buildup for the reveal, and nothing's as scary as what your brain fills in by itself. But I found Lord English legitimately unsettling, I may or may not have jumped a little when there was the bit with the skull.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:12
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I think a plain Big Cal would have been scarier for me, but maybe that would have been a little too on the nose. I also don't think this story will end in a thousand-page boss battle like Problem Sleuth did, but I suppose in order to be sure we'd first have to know what this guy actually does except indirectly arrange for everything to be really lovely, and what his relevance to the new session will be.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:16
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Well that's quite a way to punctuate the end of an act. I guess this means poo poo is finally Going Down and we're really starting to get near the endgame of the story. Well, the uh, relative endgame at least. I like how Lord English is pretty much a big green monster Cal, though. He's remained the weirdest 'character' throughout all this so it makes sense he'd be linked to Lord English in a more direct way than just being a basis for Scratch. Also I love that there was a horrible monster Cal head inside the cueball-head of Doc Scratch this whole time. Perfect. Looking forward to seeing how English actually operates and manipulates things now for sure, and a new post-scratch session is certainly a good opportunity to do such a thing without it being a bunch of AND LORD ENGLISH CAUSED THIS ALL ALONG reveals.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:18
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This whole time I was imagining some sort of pastiche of Cal and DMK. Making him roughly humanoid (and trapped in a sarcophagus) is a pretty different take on the JRPG Final Boss idea -- no matter who the villain is though most of the game, isn't the last fight usually against some sort of giant monster and/or abstract concept? I wonder what he'll turn into once they get him down to 2/3rds HP.  Also I guess he had to fit into that coat SOMEhow. e: come to think of it I guess he's roughly proportioned like the Lavos Core was. He just needs a couple of weird-looking plant pod dealies to hover next to him. loquacius fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 2, 2011 |
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Nov 2, 2011 16:21
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I don't think he's trapped in the sarcophagus- it's his timetravel method. He entered at the end of the Troll's universe, used his Cairo overcoat (a slang term for sarcophagus) to travel back to its beginning, where he can be all dastardly and poo poo.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:26
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I just noticed that the sarcophagus he uses has a skull for its head. Kelp Plankton posted:I like how Lord English is pretty much a big green monster Cal, though. He's remained the weirdest 'character' throughout all this so it makes sense he'd be linked to Lord English in a more direct way than just being a basis for Scratch. Also I love that there was a horrible monster Cal head inside the cueball-head of Doc Scratch this whole time. Perfect. This is what happens when Dave leaves Cal hanging for too long. He should never have left him hanging.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:26
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:I think a plain Big Cal would have been scarier for me, but maybe that would have been a little too on the nose. Yeah, I don't think we're ready for a Big Cal. I don't think the world is ready.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:35
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Mazerunner posted:I don't think he's trapped in the sarcophagus- it's his timetravel method. He entered at the end of the Troll's universe, used his Cairo overcoat (a slang term for sarcophagus) to travel back to its beginning, where he can be all dastardly and poo poo. Well, he has to at least go back an hour or so to grab Aradiancsector.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:57
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I've been ready for this ever since Scratch took off his jacket back during the [o] ==> updates.
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Nov 2, 2011 16:58
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So I guess that the Mirthful Messiahs et al are actually imprinted by Lord English on his corrupted session post-summoning. Its followers become murderous in the corrupt sessions but imprint more benign versions of themselves in the subsequent "failure" session, only for the benign version to become murderous again when the failure session is Scratched. You know what that means. In post-scratch Earth, juggalos are the most dangerous humans alive. You bastards, you blew it all up
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Nov 2, 2011 16:59
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Honestly I don't buy that Lord English is a seperate entity possessing Doc Scratch, I think it simply IS Doc Scratch transfigured by exposure to the heart of the Green Sun. He talks all the time about the master he serves. What if he's simply self-serving? By putting forth the notion that there is some other power he is working for, he shifts a lot of focus off of himself all the while technically telling the truth.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:10
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marsattacks posted:I'm really glad that we're getting the reveal on Lord English now, instead of right before the actual climactic battle (though that's me assuming some things about what Act 6 is going to be like.) Wow talk about non-linear time. The buildup you've seen as nearly a year was less than a week for me  re: peg leg, I think it's because Homestuck is the only MSPA I've read, but Lord English's peg leg reminds me more of a pool cue. It makes sense given his/its importance in everything.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:13
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Alright, so the LE/Plumbthroat connections don't make any sense, but I still think that Horrorterrors are mature and/or corrupted Universe Frogs, which would mean that Lord English is the one slaughtering them.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:15
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Fortis posted:Alright, so the LE/Plumbthroat connections don't make any sense, but I still think that Horrorterrors are mature and/or corrupted Universe Frogs, which would mean that Lord English is the one slaughtering them. Wasn't it established a long time ago that LE was killing the Horrorterrors? Or am I misremembering?
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Nov 2, 2011 17:29
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Evil Mastermind posted:Wasn't it established a long time ago that LE was killing the Horrorterrors? Or am I misremembering? Nope. All we have is the horrorterrors telling Rose that something is killing them off at an unknown point in time.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:32
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So after the 8-ball was potted, the cue-ball turned into a universe eating demon. In a way this makes sense. After all, at the end of a game the only ball still on the table is the cue-ball. It didn't really make sense for Scratch to be out of the game yet. After all, if you pot the cue-ball, it counts as a foul, the cue is put back on the table and your opponent gets a shot. Hussie potted the cue.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:32
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Mazerunner posted:Cairo overcoat (a slang term for sarcophagus)
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Nov 2, 2011 17:34
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Level Slide posted:re: peg leg, I think it's because Homestuck is the only MSPA I've read, but Lord English's peg leg reminds me more of a pool cue. It makes sense given his/its importance in everything. Yeah, it's even chalked and everything.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:43
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Evil Mastermind posted:Wasn't it established a long time ago that LE was killing the Horrorterrors? Or am I misremembering? As mentioned above, all we know is that something is killing them, but not what exactly. Popular guesses have been Lord English, Jack, and Eridan. I had just been thinking about how Sburb is how universes reproduce and that universes are frogs. Universes are marked for future visitation by a 'defect', which could be limited to the game session but might be more like a birth defect. The defect might manifest itself ultimately as turning the frog into a horrorterror, which LE then eats or whatever he actually does. This would of course mean that there are a LOT of universes corrupted by Lord English, which may or may not jibe with what Doc Scratch said about LE's propagation through paradox space, but I can't remember EXACTLY what he said and I can't look up the quote right now. I think Doc might have said that LE's propagation is "accounted for", which could just mean the fact that universes reproduce in the first place, since theoretically LE wouldn't be a huge cheater and basically mark every single universe (which at this point I'm guessing he does). However, he may have also said that LE's propagation was 'sanctioned' by paradox space, in which case I don't know. Fortis fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Nov 2, 2011 |
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Nov 2, 2011 17:47
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Since we already have a character who can instantly travel through space, can react nearly instantly, and destroy universes with a gesture, I wonder how Hussie will establish Lord English as the big threat? I hope it'll be better than a DBZ-style "Everyone moves clouds and shreds mountains when they power up, but when this guy does it, they act concerned." Random question: Why didn't the Black King from the trolls' session give up his staff after it got prototyped with the frog statue, like the Queen did with her ring? I've been rushing through to recap, so I might have missed it.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:53
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Dr Christmas posted:Since we already have a character who can instantly travel through space, can react nearly instantly, and destroy universes with a gesture, I wonder how Hussie will establish Lord English as the big threat? I hope it'll be better than a DBZ-style "Everyone moves clouds and shreds mountains when they power up, but when this guy does it, they act concerned." Not even Problem Sleuth sank that low after a hojillion updates against DMK. I think we can all be confident that English's power won't amount to making stuff explode harder or whatever.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:59
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JT Jag posted:Oh god dammit. Actually just to clarify because I misinterpreted what someone else said- A Chicago overcoat is slang for a coffin, so a Cairo overcoat is a twist on that .
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Nov 2, 2011 18:01
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Dr Christmas posted:Random question: Why didn't the Black King from the trolls' session give up his staff after it got prototyped with the frog statue, like the Queen did with her ring? I've been rushing through to recap, so I might have missed it. The Black Queen's decision was ascribed to "the vanity of a Queen" or some bullshit like that. Also, the Queen kind of rules from behind the scenes and was operating on the theory that it wouldn't matter that she didn't have the ring. The King fights on the front lines on the Battlefield and if he didn't have his Sceptre he would get curb-stomped in short order.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:01
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Dr Christmas posted:Since we already have a character who can instantly travel through space, can react nearly instantly, and destroy universes with a gesture, I wonder how Hussie will establish Lord English as the big threat? I hope it'll be better than a DBZ-style "Everyone moves clouds and shreds mountains when they power up, but when this guy does it, they act concerned." The key with Lord English is understanding how time travel works in Homestuck and how much control he has over influencing it how he wants. Essentially, once something's done in the Alpha timeline, it's happened. It cannot be changed. Lord English was already here, he already did everything he needed to in the past to set up his arrival, he ensures his own existence by knowing he needs to be the one to set it up, and doing so, in an endless loop. If he decided to deviate from this, presumably, he'd be shunted off into a beta timeline and, like anyone else, eventually meet some sort of end(die? who knows). To fight Lord English, you have to somehow change the Alpha timeline without it becoming a Beta. This is where glitches, bugs, and other assorted cheaty methods come into play. Escaping a scratched session, pulling in help from a dead universe, both of these are probably just the beginning of doing things the game doesn't 'allow' normally. John's death early on via Terezi trying to change the session showed us what won't work, so now we just need to see what will. Lord English won't be a Dragonball Z fight about one-upmanship. He's invincible and all-powerful. Lord English is going to be a puzzle, one centered around exploiting holes in the game's systems to do things that aren't allowed, to change circumstances until English can be weakened enough that he won't even arrive in the first place, or so he can be killed upon his arrival or something like that. It's going to be very messy, temporally.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:02
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Dr Christmas posted:Since we already have a character who can instantly travel through space, can react nearly instantly, and destroy universes with a gesture, I wonder how Hussie will establish Lord English as the big threat? I hope it'll be better than a DBZ-style "Everyone moves clouds and shreds mountains when they power up, but when this guy does it, they act concerned." I expect it's because Jack is ultimately a predictable known quantity, but Scratch / LE has the Green Sun omnipotence on top of also possessing some degree of subtlety. It's like the difference between Gamzee and Terezi. Jack can stab you through the chest, but Scratch can make you set it up for him so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty. On a mostly unrelated note, I keep forgetting to mention that during the EOA5 flash, when Slick killed Snowman, I got You Give Love A Bad Name stuck in my head. I'll let you figure out why. e: see, it was because Snowman's coronary chambers were pierced by a rapidly moving projectile, and Slick was the party responsible. One might even go so far as to say that this example makes the entire concept of attraction look unfavorable. Darlin'. loquacius fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 2, 2011 |
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Nov 2, 2011 18:03
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His head reminds me of Jigsaw I wonder if he will ask someone if they "want to play a game?"
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Nov 2, 2011 18:04
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So if LE only just emerged, does that mean that the LE that we see here is an LE later on his personal timeline from the moment he emerged from Scratch? drat time poo poo. I'm hope we find out more about English and get some background on this fella, rather than just him being a dude that always existed and eats universes for now reason.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:05
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People saying that Lord English is killing the horrorterrors should keep in mind that they are the ones who gave Dave the directions that led him and Rose to a point in time before the green sun existed and they are basically complicit in its creation for reasons that we don't know yet.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:24
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Lord of Laughton posted:So if LE only just emerged, does that mean that the LE that we see here is an LE later on his personal timeline from the moment he emerged from Scratch? drat time poo poo. Yes, hence "he is already here, but has not yet arrived". We just saw the moment of his arrival, and from here he goes on to jet around the history of the troll universe passing out time powers like cheap candy on halloween. Really, it's only complicated if you're confused about which temporal location is being referred to at any given time. All of that stuff LE did already happened from the perspective of his point of arrival post-universe-death, but when he showed up there he hadn't personally done any of it yet. The meeting with the Handmaiden for instance was in his local past (as in from the perspective of his location, i.e.: the troll universe) and personal future.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:29
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I like to think that Lord English (and Doc Scratch) take on attributes based on the universes they dwell in. The trolls created Scratch out of a cue ball and Li'l Cal (who was created by Gamzee), so Lord English has a scary Cal-ish head and is also sort of a juggalo. The cairo overcoat, sarcophagus, and maybe the peg leg are universal constants, like John Cusack (maybe). So in the kids' scratched session there will be a new Scratch (created by alchemizing the cue ball "seed" with something else) and thus a new English with different attributes. I don't get the ripped bod, though. Maybe Equius had some influence on English's physical appearance. But I really don't want to think about that...
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Nov 2, 2011 18:34
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loving called it. Welp! I guess I wasn't quite sure what I was expecting him to look like. This works.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:34
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yellowyams posted:People saying that Lord English is killing the horrorterrors should keep in mind that they are the ones who gave Dave the directions that led him and Rose to a point in time before the green sun existed and they are basically complicit in its creation for reasons that we don't know yet. I'd say it is still in contention just how much knowledge they have about the situation. They demanded Rose destroy the book that would make Bec, despite the fact that doing so had no effect on DD grabbing the copy. If they are limited to seeing events as they happen in a linear timeline and/or from a limited, physical perspective (like from Rose's point of view), then everything they have set up seems logical, including possessing Rose to go fight Jack and the Green Sun plan.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:35
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I'm so glad Lord English doesn't look "dapper" or whatever.tumblr posted:This is the opposite of what I wanted D: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tumblr posted:There might have been a couple people within 50 yards from me who might not have heard my frustrated “NOOOOO” Eat it, chumps.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:53
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> Retrieve your coat, there are dames to be enslaved! You are quite positive there has never been a coat in your office, and never will be.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:56
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Evil Mastermind posted:Whelp, didn't see that coming. I feel like I have to buy the Squiddles album now. There was another ~ATH file on John's computer at the beginning of the story, but who knows if it is actually important or not.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:59
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Re: English and the Horrorterrors. Scratch also used a Horrorterror to manipulate Troll society for eons. Maybe Gl'bgolyb was essentially enslaved? I mean, Gl'bgolyb is referred to as a "she" so it's fits English's MO in that respect, at least.
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Nov 2, 2011 19:00
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:I'm so glad Lord English doesn't look "dapper" or whatever. Anything that pisses off the shittier type of Homestuck fan is a success in my book! I almost want Hussie to stop making it just to see them react. Almost.
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Nov 2, 2011 19:00
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:I'm so glad Lord English doesn't look "dapper" or whatever.
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Nov 2, 2011 19:07
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