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The fuel system in Mafia served one purpose, people could shoot your gas tank, which would then drain. You'd either have to keep filling up or get a new car.
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Nov 5, 2011 16:13
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Cojawfee posted:The fuel system in Mafia served one purpose, people could shoot your gas tank, which would then drain. You'd either have to keep filling up or get a new car. I don't mind this idea. It's way better than the GTA3-era games where a stray bullet hitting you gas tank would cause you to instantly blow up and die. Having to stop and fill up would be dumb, but I could see them putting it in as another way to incapacitate a car.
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Nov 5, 2011 16:40
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Also I still firmly believe Tommy Vercetti is the best GTA protagonist, since his character in cutscenes and gameplay is actually consistent, rather than the other protagonists who make a huge deal about killing people in cutscenes then proceed to slaughter hundreds of people in every single mission.
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Nov 5, 2011 16:42
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It would be funny if like 5% of the time you jacked a car in GTA V it turned out to barely have any gas in it, and you had to immediately get another car.
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Nov 5, 2011 16:57
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Generic Monk posted:Also I still firmly believe Tommy Vercetti is the best GTA protagonist, since his character in cutscenes and gameplay is actually consistent, rather than the other protagonists who make a huge deal about killing people in cutscenes then proceed to slaughter hundreds of people in every single mission. "I love killing people for money." - Luis Lopez (in cutscene)
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Nov 5, 2011 19:03
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Who cares whether the character is psycho or not? They don't need to intersect at all. It's really simple: The missions = the character Sandbox time = you
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Nov 5, 2011 19:24
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ElwoodCuse posted:Who cares whether the character is psycho or not? They don't need to intersect at all. It's really simple: It's the inconsistency more than anything. It's really something that's been in the GTA series from the beginning, the fundamental disconnect between cutscenes, missions and sandbox time.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:27
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ElwoodCuse posted:Who cares whether the character is psycho or not? They don't need to intersect at all. It's really simple: Because if the character and the gameplay aren't meshed well enough, you end up with things like your friends calling you to ask you to play darts because they feel like the character stuff is more important than the gameplay stuff. If you don't work at melding the two, you end up with two opposing forces that never form a cohesive experience and serve to keep pulling you out of it.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:30
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Cutscenes are skippable. You can always pretend that every protagonist is a mute criminal freak like GTA III.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:30
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Gameplay and pure loving around can be separate, but niko complained about not wanting to kill, took a 500bux job to waste like 10 dudes 5 minutes later. That is really jarring.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:39
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Zedd posted:Gameplay and pure loving around can be separate, but niko complained about not wanting to kill, took a 500bux job to waste like 10 dudes 5 minutes later. Also complaining about not having enough money when just a few days earlier he robbed a bank and got half a million dollars.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:42
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Zedd posted:Gameplay and pure loving around can be separate, but niko complained about not wanting to kill, took a 500bux job to waste like 10 dudes 5 minutes later. Not to mention the whole thing of San Andreas having Carl being framed for killing a cop, and in order to prove his innocence, ends up spending the entire game killing cops. Separating the gameplay and the plot is cool, but Rockstar keeps on making mistakes that makes the two end up contradict each other. That's all they have to avoid, just make a character whose personality would reflect the kind of stuff you'd want to do when you're loving around and you're golden.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:42
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SA's reason didn't hold up but I could take that, GTA4 was very very jarring though. I know that the idea is that Roman keeps gambling away your money, but take away money from us then. That said I loved (3,vc,sa) or really liked (4) every main gta so far so I am still very excited for the game.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:44
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Zedd posted:I know that the idea is that Roman keeps gambling away your money, but take away money from us then. That would be really really annoying though.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:46
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The inconsistency in IV makes sense at least because Niko isn't meant to be a sympathetic character. He's come to Liberty City as part of a hair-brained revenge plot that probably won't even work. We're not given too many details about this whole "war" that hosed him up, and his inability to move on is what's driving him crazy. It's exemplified best in the cutscene where he kills Vlad, and after telling Roman why he came to Liberty City, his reaction is "JESUS CHRIST WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WE NEED TO HIDE THIS BODY." He loves violence, but he's too concerned with looking pitiable to admit it. This is the crux of the moment where he finally meets his squad's killer, and finds out the only pitiable thing he did in comparison to Niko was charge a lesser sum for hit killing. Niko's just as insane as the III-era protagonists, just in more of a pathetic way. Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 19:47
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Generic Monk posted:Also I still firmly believe Tommy Vercetti is the best GTA protagonist, since his character in cutscenes and gameplay is actually consistent, rather than the other protagonists who make a huge deal about killing people in cutscenes then proceed to slaughter hundreds of people in every single mission. Several actually do. Claude is pretty good, because he never talks, so he's basically just filling the shoes of mafia hireling #18123871, and well, the things he does outside the cutscenes and the cutscenes mesh fairly well. Tommy is ok, they basically just made him a sociopath both in and outside cutscenes, which I guess fits, but I found him a little over the top at times, and just honestly didn't like him as much as Claude. CJ was pretty terrible in cutscenes as he seemed to be an average 9-5 guy who just wants to clean up everything, but then goes in to game mode and absolutely wrecks everyone as some sort of death god. But he still has some motivation to continue following the story, I mean, he needs to help the grove/needs to escape/rebuild/kill everyone. While he's not really the best GTA protag, his personal story and motivations at least fit whats he's doing. e: Actually, yeah, there was that cop storyline, I totally forgot about that like 5 minutes in, whatever, I stayed playing and it fit because THE GROVE NEEDS ME DAWG. Nico is the worst of them all in terms of connectivity between cutscene and gameplay/missions, he constantly goes on about how he wants to clean up his act, then rather then working at a 9-5 job, he just goes around and kills people because why the gently caress not I guess. He's given at least 7-8 chances throughout the game to stop killing people and lead a seminormal life, and just keeps at it, bemoaning his fate the entire way. Its hilarity when you are outright killing Bank Guards, robbing a bank, and just in general being a dick, and suddenly Nico quips about how "He just wants to be a normal guy" Johnny and Luiz are pretty good, and probably some of the better Rockstar characters in terms of motivations and following up on what happens in game, Johnny doesn't really want to redeem himself at all, his vengeance just ultimately ends with his ending, and he doesn't really have any other choices, and since he is a bike hooligan, he doesn't really have any issues with going around roughing people up. Luiz is pretty much just a much better Claude, he outright says he doesn't give a poo poo about killing people/surviving, and most of what he does in the missions fills in with who and what he is, while maintaining that air of oldschool GTA. The only major issues with the Luiz storyline is the mom missions, which while bad, don't pull you out of his story as badly as Nicos constant remarks/nonsensical motivations with plot, or CJs normalness. Really, the only jarring one across the entire GTA gamescape would be Nico, as not only does his character not mesh with the freeplay, his character doesn't even mesh with the goddamn cutscenes/story missions. It was extremely jarring for him to go on about how he never wants to see a gun again, and how badly he feels every time he kills someone, then he picks up a knife, stabs 8 people to death in mission, shoots 20 more, all while yelling how he loves the taste of blood, and how Khorne needs more skulls. Its just absolutely nonsensical in every way.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:48
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I just like it when niko starts shooting innocents and says: 'This means nothing, I grew up in the war!  '
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Nov 5, 2011 19:51
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In the yelling at enemies department, nothing outclasses Marston. Especially when he's in Mexico. Sure, maybe there's a disconnect between that and his stated goal of settling down and being a farmer, but it's still very entertaining. Plus, if you really wanted to rationalize it, Niko does all that yelling when people are shooting at him, so it makes sense that he would revert to his old self in a kill-or-be-killed situation. And sure, he says he wants to change but obviously he doesn't.
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Nov 5, 2011 19:59
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For me, Niko is by far the worst GTA protagonist. I can't stand him at all, because he's such a loving dickbag to every character for no reason. "Hey Niko can you drive my friend over to the nearby 7-11 for snacks?" "Only if there's money in it for me." gently caress you Niko, you should die in a ditch. I maintain that Roman should have been the protagonist because not only would it have fit the american dream is a lie theme they were going for, but he's a far more likable character.
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Nov 5, 2011 20:56
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Everyone is GTA IV is loving annoying.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:00
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I actually really like Niko as a character, if they'd cut out the whole tragic backstory thing. What I was hoping for was being able to play as some kind of Slavic Scarface kind of thing, where Niko comes to America to make his fortune doing honest labor but ends up getting sucked into the criminal underworld, only to discover that he's got a knack for it and ends up succeeding at the American Dream, but only by murdering hundreds of people. Endgame involves you going everywhere in fancy limos, cruising around in suits, tooling up in mansion, et cetera. Make it a full-on satire of the American Dream so you can keep the fun craziness intact, while still having an opportunity for some serious storytelling in there. But instead they go the serious and gritty route, which is totally at ends with the goofy gameplay it tries to make, and then makes Niko, a dude I really like as a character, come off as an annoying hypocrite.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:01
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I really liked Brucie, I thought he was a great character.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:01
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Yep. Niko sucks for all the reasons highlighted. Look at his emails. Brucie sends a nice email about some cool poo poo and he berates him almost every single time.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:04
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Rookersh posted:Nico is the worst of them all in terms of connectivity between cutscene and gameplay/missions, he constantly goes on about how he wants to clean up his act, then rather then working at a 9-5 job, he just goes around and kills people because why the gently caress not I guess. He's given at least 7-8 chances throughout the game to stop killing people and lead a seminormal life, and just keeps at it, bemoaning his fate the entire way. Its hilarity when you are outright killing Bank Guards, robbing a bank, and just in general being a dick, and suddenly Nico quips about how "He just wants to be a normal guy" I really like the theory Pirate Jet just posted. His sole motivation for moving to America was revenge, not to get away from violence but to continue it. He never wanted it to end in the first place. His "I want to get away from the war and live a normal life" shtick is a cover, he's just acting like that so people will see him as sympathetic and take him in while he enacts his revenge. Niko's character makes a lot more sense when seen in this light.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:07
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He didn't really mean to move to America though. He got caught up in that thing on the ship and it meant he was stuck in America for the time being. But when that russian guy said the dudes he was after were in LC, he did go out for revenge I just think Niko is hosed in the head and at least somewhat crazy.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:14
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Generic Monk posted:It's the inconsistency more than anything. It's really something that's been in the GTA series from the beginning, the fundamental disconnect between cutscenes, missions and sandbox time. I think it only really applies to GTA:SA and GTAIV for the reasons that Rookersh posted, plus you're also forgetting the protagonists in GTA1 and 2 were basically sociopaths doing whatever they needed to do to get money/power. Maybe that's lack of cutscenes and backstory but the intro video to GTA2 makes it pretty clear how much of a violent loony Claude Speed is. I could also (sorta) live with the disconnect in SA because CJ is bound to be dragged back into the gangbanging lifestyle given that he returns to Sweet, Big Smoke and Ryder. The story thread that he's been framed for being a cop killer is really ridiculous and tenuous though. Install Gentoo posted:I just think Niko is hosed in the head and at least somewhat crazy. 
metalfingers fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 21:44
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metalfingers posted:I could also (sorta) live with the disconnect in SA because CJ is bound to be dragged back into the gangbanging lifestyle given that he returns to Sweet, Big Smoke and Ryder. The story thread that he's been framed for being a cop killer is really ridiculous and tenuous though. CJ's "I cleaned my life up" bit is a load of bull though. Sure he doesn't bang no more but he was still a stick-up man in Liberty, its not like he had a nine to five.
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Nov 5, 2011 22:49
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Well with CJ he's both amazingly good at killing people and doing ridiculous poo poo, while also incredibly weak willed. Its why he'll break into a top secret government base just because a hippy told him to.
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Nov 5, 2011 22:53
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I still want my corrupt cop GTA. You start off as an idealist, straight-shooting good cop but get ruined and end up a huge corrupt dick at the end of the story, except with no consequences for your character whatsoever, you just get to revel in the horrible corruption. GTA: Port of Call New Orleans.
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Nov 5, 2011 23:03
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I think the announcement got everyone playing multi. theres a to of people playing on live. At least compared to last time I was on.
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Nov 5, 2011 23:50
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I think one of the reasons why Rockstar chose to go with a single city map as opposed to an SA-style "region" is so they can release new cities in DLC. TLAD and TBOGT were far superior both in terms of story and game mechanics but it was kind of a shame that you got all this new awesome content... in the same good ol' Liberty City. I predict a Las Venturas content release following around Luis as he goes to work for some Sam Rothstein type at a big casino.
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Nov 6, 2011 00:01
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Crackerman posted:I still want my corrupt cop GTA. You start off as an idealist, straight-shooting good cop but get ruined and end up a huge corrupt dick at the end of the story, except with no consequences for your character whatsoever, you just get to revel in the horrible corruption. or GTA:Met Police.
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Nov 6, 2011 00:06
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Hey all, I want to play San Andreas again, buut my friend deleted my game save on my ps2 version. I don't want to play through the whole drat game again to get where I was, so I am thinking about getting the PC version to get a 100% save. Are the mods good enough to justify the 14.99?
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Nov 6, 2011 00:40
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I really like the theory Pirate Jet just posted. His sole motivation for moving to America was revenge, not to get away from violence but to continue it. He never wanted it to end in the first place. His "I want to get away from the war and live a normal life" shtick is a cover, he's just acting like that so people will see him as sympathetic and take him in while he enacts his revenge. Niko's character makes a lot more sense when seen in this light. I'm actually replaying vanilla GTAIV right now and it really is the best explanation. I just got to the first mission for Faustin, and in the cutscene beforehand, Roman is hiding for his life in a dumpster and Niko comforts him by saying that whoever comes along, they'll offer their services to. Real comforting, dude. Niko gives no shits about letting the cycle of violence in his life end, at least subconsciously. All of his attempts at stopping it are entirely halfassed. His solution to the Vlad problem is to just kill him, and acting like Vlad moving in on a woman that Roman was not even dating at that point was a crime worthy of execution - not to mention that Niko's comments during the mission are heavily objectifying, viewing Mallorie as Roman's property, and not as a woman he likes. The consideration that Niko is a hyperviolent manchild makes even more sense when you consider that The Lost and Damned is pretty much just Peter Pan, retold. I haven't played Ballad of Gay Tony yet, admittedly, though I do own it. There's a lot of spoiler bars in this post, I guess, and I apologize, but better safe than sorry.
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Nov 6, 2011 00:51
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0 rows returned posted:For me, Niko is by far the worst GTA protagonist. I can't stand him at all, because he's such a loving dickbag to every character for no reason. To be fair, his friends are all horribly annoying and force him to do boring poo poo all the time. They should be paying him to spend time with them.
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Nov 6, 2011 00:52
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GTAIV's gameplay and story would have meshed much better if there had been some sort of business management aspect to it. Just subtracting money to settle Roman's gambling debts would have been stupid, but if you were actively investing money into different business ventures then it would have been pretty awesome. Honestly, when I first played the game, I assumed the story was going to be about Roman and Niko's rise to the top. I was excited when Roman talked about wanting to open his own restaurant. I even thought that the relationship between Faustin and Dimitri was foreshadowing where Niko and Roman's relationship would eventually lead. EDIT: ChuckDHead posted:To be fair, his friends are all horribly annoying and force him to do boring poo poo all the time. They should be paying him to spend time with them. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 6, 2011 |
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Nov 6, 2011 00:56
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Install Gentoo posted:He didn't really mean to move to America though. He got caught up in that thing on the ship and it meant he was stuck in America for the time being. But when that russian guy said the dudes he was after were in LC, he did go out for revenge It's pretty clear that this is the case. When he's being interrogated in a dank basement by thugs with guns, he laughs in their faces and mouths off to their boss less than an hour later. He even outright states at one point that he no longer gives a poo poo whether he lives or dies. His revenge and all the dirty work leading up to it is just a flimsy excuse for him to not eat a bullet and get it over with. Which sort of ties in to his demanding money for just about every job. Most of the people Niko works for are the kind of slime you scrape off the criminal world's underside. He doesn't care enough to differentiate one kind of employer (or job) from another, but he also doesn't do anything out of the goodness of his heart unless it's for someone like Roman. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Nov 6, 2011 |
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Nov 6, 2011 01:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:GTAIV's gameplay and story would have meshed much better if there had been some sort of business management aspect to it. Just subtracting money to settle Roman's gambling debts would have been stupid, but if you were actively investing money into different business ventures then it would have been pretty awesome. Letting Niko actually alleviate Roman's debt problems would counteract the fact that Niko doesn't care one bit. Roman is actually the most sympathetic character in the story by far. While he's an idiot and a liar, he's constantly working his rear end off for a (unfortunately futile) goal, and his ignorance and dishonesty are caused mostly by the fact that despite all the bullshit that happens to him, he's an incredible optimist. He's putting up with so much poo poo to try and succeed that it's really kind of touching. Yeah he lied about what America was like to Niko, but we're lead to believe that Niko never really believed him that much in the first place anyways. Dude just wanted to be closer to his cousin. When Niko and him are driving away from their recently-cremated apartment, Roman points out that everything was going fine until Niko came along, and he's completely in the right. Niko's way to the top is through illicit and illegal means, a direct contrast to his cousin who spends almost all of his time working in a shithole taxi cab company for a dude he hates - but it's better than being on the lam from the law. Niko does save Roman when he's in danger, but it's a gradual turning point for him over the course of the story, climaxing when Dimitri straight-up kidnaps him. Roman is really the only dude who puts up with his poo poo.
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Nov 6, 2011 01:16
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Also Litte Jacob is essentially a comedy character and probably racist as well.
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Nov 6, 2011 01:21
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i got killed posted:Also Litte Jacob is essentially a comedy character and probably racist as well. Grand Theft Wiki posted:
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