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annatar posted:Thank god this thread stopped classic author comparison hour at Vladimir Nabokov and James Joyce. Jesus seriously let's all stroke off about how important this webcomic is to the new western canon what the gently caress.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:25
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Mr. Pumroy posted:Jesus seriously let's all stroke off about how important this webcomic is to the new western canon what the gently caress. Yeah seriously guys I like Homestuck as much as anybody but this is getting loving ridiculous.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:33
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New SBaHJ!
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Nov 7, 2011 04:43
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I still think "got to church!" is the funniest SBaHJ.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:56
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Now we can all argue all night about whether or not Homestuck competes with the works of Shakespeare or not, but clearly Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff exceeds the Bard's story telling capabilities.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:56
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That might be the most effective advertizement I have ever seen. I went to that page just to see if it even existed. I can think of no other medium and no other source that could have convinced me to do that.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:57
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creationist believer posted:Now we can all argue all night about whether or not Homestuck competes with the works of Shakespeare or not, but clearly Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff exceeds the Bard's story telling capabilities. Had it been created 90 years prior, SBaHJ would not be out of place in a museum.
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Nov 7, 2011 04:58
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FunkyAl posted:Had it been created 90 years prior, SBaHJ would not be out of place in a museum. Anyone who could have recreated SBaHJ's artificing before computers were even invented would have been a master artist indeed. And probably on a lot of very strange and powerful drugs.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:02
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FunkyAl posted:Had it been created 90 years prior, SBaHJ would not be out of place in a museum. I just hope I live long enough to see "How high do you even have to be??????" given as an essay prompt in high school English classes across America.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:05
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King of Solomon posted:I agree that Homestuck has flaws, but uh. That's not one of them. Most of the trolls are minor characters. Not every character needs to be as fleshed out as, say, Vriska.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:19
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What really gets me about Homestuck is that Hussie says that his next thing is going to be bigger. Even if it goes all Xenogears disc 2 and the brunt of the plot is relegated to paragraphs on tumblr, I really want to see how he'd do that.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:24
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Ograbme posted:Even Vriska didn't need to be fleshed out(because she is fat, and also i thought she was boring) This is why you are not the author.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:25
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If Homestuck is a first draft of itself, it makes me curious as to how the novelization is going to be. It'd already be a different experience just from being a wildly different medium, but if Hussie decided to tighten up parts of the story he wasn't happy with.. It could be interesting to see what differs.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:39
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Midnight Raider posted:If Homestuck is a first draft of itself, it makes me curious as to how the novelization is going to be. It'd already be a different experience just from being a wildly different medium, but if Hussie decided to tighten up parts of the story he wasn't happy with.. It could be interesting to see what differs. I'm mostly curious because I want to see how he transforms this thing with interactive media and fully scored animated sequences into something that will actually work in book form.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:47
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Midnight Raider posted:If Homestuck is a first draft of itself, it makes me curious as to how the novelization is going to be. It'd already be a different experience just from being a wildly different medium, but if Hussie decided to tighten up parts of the story he wasn't happy with.. It could be interesting to see what differs. I'd honestly expect nearly everything to be different. A huge amount of Homestuck as is just can't be conveyed in a book elegantly. He'd basically be starting from scratch, in a way.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:48
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King of Solomon posted:I'm mostly curious because I want to see how he transforms this thing with interactive media and fully scored animated sequences into something that will actually work in book form. It's not the crazy task it sounds like. Most pages are just static and will work exactly as-is. For the animated gifs that are just goofy jittering, they should still work in static form. For others, multiple frames of the animation can be shown if necessary. If he uses a portrait layout rather than landscape, then pesterlogs should fit quite well on the page. And since the flash animations contain no story-essential audio, their artwork can be adapted to conventional comic pages without any major narrative loss. The most tweaking would be with the interactive segments, with a limited selection of conversations and events being presented in a more standard, static form. But that's nothing to lose sleep over.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:56
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Captain Oblivious posted:I'd honestly expect nearly everything to be different. A huge amount of Homestuck as is just can't be conveyed in a book elegantly. He'd basically be starting from scratch, in a way. Seeing his webcomic become a failure, Hussie made a deal to salvage it. The story of Homestuck will be subjected to a Scratch and reset with better storytelling conditions to produce a better outcome. Doc Scratch will be our condescending unreliable narrator for the duration of the story.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:00
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Supercar Gautier posted:The most tweaking would be with the interactive segments, with a limited selection of conversations and events being presented in a more standard, static form. But that's nothing to lose sleep over. But just look at the opening for act 3. There's a lot that you can miss there but it's all recreated as static panels during act 3 so that the reader gets what happened. The model is there. The act of finding Easter eggs obviously won't translate to a book but otherwise I think the interactive bits are just icing on the cake, not the cake itself.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:04
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creationist believer posted:But just look at the opening for act 3. There's a lot that you can miss there but it's all recreated as static panels during act 3 so that the reader gets what happened. The model is there. The act of finding Easter eggs obviously won't translate to a book but otherwise I think the interactive bits are just icing on the cake, not the cake itself. I was referring more to [S] Past Karkat: Wake Up, which is still the most sprawling interactive flash. Andrew may well choose to print every single conversation, but I think he'll more likely stick to the essentials.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:14
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Supercar Gautier posted:It's not the crazy task it sounds like. Most pages are just static and will work exactly as-is. For the animated gifs that are just goofy jittering, they should still work in static form. For others, multiple frames of the animation can be shown if necessary. If he uses a portrait layout rather than landscape, then pesterlogs should fit quite well on the page. And since the flash animations contain no story-essential audio, their artwork can be adapted to conventional comic pages without any major narrative loss. Last I checked, we're talking about a novelization, not a graphic novelization yes? If I misunderstood Hussie's intentions that changes things dramatically. For a straight novelization, translating pages verbatim is really not all there is to it.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:26
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Supercar Gautier posted:I was referring more to [S] Past Karkat: Wake Up, which is still the most sprawling interactive flash. Andrew may well choose to print every single conversation, but I think he'll more likely stick to the essentials. I dunno... The conversations in that are either important or short enough to not be a problem to include. I feel like you could get the essence of [S] Past Karkat: Wake Up in a book by excluding all the chests and leave the conversations. Even the future Terezi stuff could be stuck in like it was a regular update I think. I've been trying to get my friend into Homestuck the last 5 months and he really went through acts 1 through 4 in basically one streak, and then slowed down through act 5. It seems like the troll typing quirks and the "effort" involved in the walk arounds has been getting to him. I guess it's just a thing that what interests me and drives me on won't appeal to someone else. He reached [S] Kanaya: Return to the Core and tried to just speed through the conversations in it when I was in "check everything for hidden clues" mode when I first saw it. I hope he appreciates [S] Seer: Descend since that was absolutely my favorite update until Cascade.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:36
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the scope and newness of the various mediums that a project encompasses don't excuse tying them together in a stilted way.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:42
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Midnight Raider posted:If Homestuck is a first draft of itself, it makes me curious as to how the novelization is going to be. It'd already be a different experience just from being a wildly different medium, but if Hussie decided to tighten up parts of the story he wasn't happy with.. It could be interesting to see what differs. I'd be interested to see how Hussie would deal with Act 1 when he starts working on the graphic novel version of Homestuck. It's "Problem Sleuth 2" feel is really out of place when compared to the rest of the acts (especially the later ones), and I think it would probably need some reworking in order for it to fit the tone of the later Acts. I can see him getting rid of the non plot-essential stuff (like the cake shenanigans) and trimming it down to the stuff that actually pertains to the rest of the plot and the explanation of things like Grist, along with keeping the Inventory gags. I think it'd flow a lot better that way.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:56
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Homestuck might have to be a book series, really, if you'd want to really keep the authenticity. Someone did the word count and it's nearly as long as Lord of the Rings. It'd have to be pretty much completely rewritten but it could very well be made into a trilogy.
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Nov 7, 2011 06:56
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JT Jag posted:Someone did the word count and it's nearly as long as Lord of the Rings. Pretty sure it only came out to two-thirds the length of LotR, which is still massively long, but considering that Act 6 and 7 are supposed to be shorter than Act 5, I doubt Hussie's going to break that word count.
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Nov 7, 2011 07:00
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Arrhythmia posted:Pretty sure it only came out to two-thirds the length of LotR, which is still massively long, but considering that Act 6 and 7 are supposed to be shorter than Act 5, I doubt Hussie's going to break that word count. Unrelatedly, it occurs to me during my archive trawl that this chatlog right here may very well have been the last thing John saw before he caused the Scratch. Awkward conversations abound on the other side. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 07:05
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Douglas Adams wrote on Shakespeare and Wodehouse:quote:Maybe its' because our greatest writing genius was incapable of being funny that we have decided that being funny doesn't count. Which is tough on Wodehouse (as if he could have cared less) because his entire genius was for being funny, and being funny in such a sublime way as to put mere poetry in the shade. The precision with which he plays upon every aspect of a words character simultaneously - its meaning, timbre, rhythm, the range of its idiomatic connections and flavours, would have made Keats whistle. Keats would have been proud to have written "the smile vanished from his face like breath off a razor blade" or of Honoria Glossop's laugh that it sounded like "cavalry on a tin bridge." Speaking of which, Shakespeare, when he wrote "A man may smile, and smile and be a villain" might have been at least as impressed by "Many a man may look respectable, and yet be able to hide at will behind a spiral staircase". People always scoff when you compare ANYTHING modern with great, dead artists, but only if said dead guys work is sufficiently serious business. If I said the writing in homestuck was as good as Wodehouse, or as good as Douglas Adams himself, I might have some people disagree with me (I might not fully buy it myself, the two men I just mentioned being absolute titans of humorous literature), but you can bet your arse the comparison wouldn't be met with such lip-trembling, blustering indignation as when a REAL dead artist is sullied by being mentioned in the same breath with something so base as comedy or comic books. How about these. Homestuck is: as funny as Terry Pratchett. as intricate with engaging detail as Tolkein. as groundbreaking and revolutionary within his field as Alan Moore. But obviously not as "good" as Hemingway or Nabokov or Shakespeare. You know, REAL writers. Fagtastic fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 07:58
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Fagtastic posted:but you can bet your arse the comparison wouldn't be met with such lip-trembling, blustering indignation as when a REAL dead artist is sullied by being mentioned in the same breath with something so base as comedy Shakespeare wrote a lot of (very good and well known) comedies and Pale Fire is funnier than Homestuck EDIT: Basically I'm not gonna engage this debate seriously because I haven't even read all of Homestuck nor do I care enough about it to do so for now, but I would advise at the very least that you guys consider waiting until the thing is complete before you start comparing its author to Shakespeare or even Alan Moore if you want people to take those claims seriously Baku fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 08:22
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Anybody who doesn't think Shakespeare is comedic hasn't been reading his plays right. Pretty much every scene with peasant characters being idiots at each other was written specifically for the penny audience on the floor. Nobody is saying "how DARE you compare comedy to something SERIOUS like these famous dead writers!" They're saying "don't you think it's a little loving absurd to compare a guy who writes a webcomic about trolls with candy corn horns to people widely acknowledged as the best writers of history?" It has nothing to do with comedy. It has to do with the fact that Andrew Hussie is writing a funny and entertaining (but very rough!) piece of web media and getting it into your head that he's totally comparable and influential to Western writing in general is loving stupid. Pratchett is way funnier than Homestuck and he's considered one of the current fantasy (and even general) greats of the industry -- so, see, it's not about comedy vs. seriousness. Tolkien is a better worldbuilder than Hussie because he took literal years to plan that poo poo out before he wrote it. And I don't know anything about Alan Moore so I can't comment on that one. But come on, really? It's loving Homestuck. We enjoy it but it's Homestuck. Let's not get on a goddamned high horse about how we're so intelligent because Hussie is a grandmaster. He's not and he slips up a lot and makes a lot of mistakes. That doesn't mean his poo poo isn't enjoyable, just that making it out as the next classic is dumb. EDIT: Like seriously I don't think even ASOIAF fans get on about how GRRM is "just like Shakespeare" or anything and they're almost as insufferable as Homestuck fans. Being one of both, I would know. dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 08:27
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Shakespeare wrote a lot of (very good and well known) comedies and Pale Fire is funnier than Homestuck Funny is even more personal than just about any other facet of art. That said, Shakespeares comedies are great plays, but mediocre comedy at best. Anyway, I doubt you can argue that there isn't an entrenched and undeserved elitist bias in both genre (drama>comedy) and medium (print novels > everything). I'm not saying, and I know no-one is saying, that Hussie is literally as good as shakespeare. Hussie even wrote a little essay about that comparison on one of his old formsrings, which I recall being very level headed and insightful. But the kneejerk reaction against the very idea of such a comparison is very much a product of the elitist bias just mentioned, and it's only going to get more quaint and obnoxious as time goes on and art that isn't a book about drama gains favour. Fagtastic fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 08:35
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You put sentences reading "Humor is subjective," and "Shakespeare isn't funny" right next to each other. Intentionally. Can we shut up about this now? The level of picking-apart-between-updates is getting a tad unbearable, what with all the literary theory being wafted around like turds people have opinions about. Here's the nice thing about literary theory: all of your valid interpretations are sound. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 09:10
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Homestuck does very neat things structurally that haven't really been explored with webcomics up to now. It's a quite versatile format - any page can have one to many images (sometimes animated) with no text or quite a lot. They can even have sound and full animated sequences, if needed, or even interactivity. I'd like to see a lot more comics in the same sort of format.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:17
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Factory Factory posted:You put sentences reading "Humor is subjective," and "Shakespeare isn't funny" right next to each other. Intentionally. Yep! quote:Can we shut up about this now? The level of picking-apart-between-updates is getting a tad unbearable, what with all the literary theory being wafted around like turds people have opinions about. Here's the nice thing about literary theory: all of your valid interpretations are sound. Fine, lets not discuss the literary value of the work or its place in the broader fields of human endeavour. What do you think we should talk about instead, mr. all opinions are equal and boring? Which troll is your favourite troll. What do you think of [absurd plot theory].
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Nov 7, 2011 09:19
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^^^ I like the absurd plot theories!  Shakespeare is funny. Homestuck is funny, but hardly the best thing ever. It's unique and inventive for its medium however, and that should be praised. I don't disagree with the criticisms of it being overly long however, I put off reading it for some time because of that. Looking back I wish I had started reading it when I first heard about it, but I put it off since I didn't have the time and didn't pick it up for about a year. Also because it's so wordy, not everyone is going to enjoy it completely, since some people just aren't word people.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:22
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...Can we just have the thread closed until the 11th? This conversation is really dumb.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:23
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Discussing the literary merit isn't bad per se. It's just that people are hurling incredulity and hyperbole at each other, and the topic of discussion keeps drifting from "What kind of merit does Homestuck have" to "Holy poo poo you're dumb." It's a classically structured Goon argument  But it also annoys me incredibly.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:24
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flatluigi posted:Homestuck does very neat things structurally that haven't really been explored with webcomics up to now. It's a quite versatile format - any page can have one to many images (sometimes animated) with no text or quite a lot. They can even have sound and full animated sequences, if needed, or even interactivity. Hunt down Kid Radd if you can. A lot of what MSPA's done--single panels at a time, animated gifs, music--Kid Radd did ages ago. It relied on some html trickery to work, though, and browser updates messed with it. The author abandoned it, I think, but I know there's some saved archives floating around. Story's finished and everything, it's just.. not online anymore. Which is a shame.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:27
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Oh you naysayers might be shaking your heads now, but novels weren't considered proper objects of study until shockingly recently; in a hundred years we'll be appalled at how people have the gall to compare AH's classic Homestuck to whatever entertaining but crass bilge they're beaming straight into your brains (this is a joke)
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Nov 7, 2011 09:38
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Honestly, while I do think Homestuck is pretty great and entertaining, it's a little silly to compare it to the greats at the moment for one reason: The drat thing isn't finished yet. While I trust Andrew Hussie not to gently caress it up in the next couple acts, he very well could, and for that we should probably wait until it's finished before we start making comparisons to Shakespeare et al.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:48
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So moving on to insane plot theories, which is what I do best, this page shows/showed the trolls timeline as cutting off in the near future. Is it because the trolls are moving into the furthest ring? Or, does Terezi still have the scratched disc, and a possibility exists to combine it with whats left of skaia to re-scratch the trolls session? Another theory I am holding on to concerns the (hinted) 48 players who create the trolls session. So far we know of three sessions, with 4, 12 and 8 players. If each session has two sets of players bordering a scratch we come up with the 48 players who've created the trolls, and leading the story to a nice circular loop of everything causing everything to happen, ex: 12>4>8>?>12. The horrorterrors are keeping the dead trolls aliveish for a reason right; what better reason than everyone being needed for the final session? I personally enjoy this theory as it fits into my supposition the trolls ancestors managed to escape their session pre-scratch.
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Nov 7, 2011 09:56
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