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Red2401 posted:The horrorterrors are keeping the dead trolls aliveish for a reason right; what better reason than everyone being needed for the final session? I personally enjoy this theory as it fits into my supposition the trolls ancestors managed to escape their session pre-scratch. Weeeeell, there is one stated reason. Feferi asked them to create the dream bubbles. I'm not sure if there's any reason beyond that. There could be (and if so, it's unstated as of now.)
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Nov 7, 2011 10:06
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aegof posted:Hunt down Kid Radd if you can. A lot of what MSPA's done--single panels at a time, animated gifs, music--Kid Radd did ages ago. It relied on some html trickery to work, though, and browser updates messed with it. The author abandoned it, I think, but I know there's some saved archives floating around. Story's finished and everything, it's just.. not online anymore. Uh, he didn't abandon it at all, he finished it completely. And it did do animated gifs, but the only music was in the bonus one-shots like the silly otaku 'these are a few of my favorite things' parody. Plus, it was limited textually to just what could be in the panels. And it's online. There's even a downloadable version complete with an old portable firefox just so you can see it as it was meant to be: http://www.bgreco.net/kidradd.htm It did do some neat things, especially the loving individually created and placed sprites (every comic is made of several different sprites upscaled and placed in the frame), but it doesn't have a lot of what I like about Homestuck's format.
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Nov 7, 2011 10:35
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flatluigi posted:the only music was in the bonus one-shots There's also a mirror at http://kidradd.muddasheep.com/kidradd_guillaume/ which has been modified to work in modern browsers, although it's not perfect in opera or chrome according the that page. Zereth fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 10:42
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Hobo Lobo of Hamelin is a recently started webcomic with extraordinarily innovative use of elements that the internet can give to sequential art, if you're looking for things that try to break the mold like homestuck does. I'd love to see this kind of multimedia/interactivity being more or a trend, really setting webcomics apart from print comics and print-style comics in terms of what you can do in the medium*. Bring on the death of the panel. *Not that 'the medium'. Fagtastic fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 10:47
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If by 'recently started' you mean 'horribly ambitious project with three pages since January of this year' then sure. 
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Nov 7, 2011 11:01
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The parallax thing is interesting, but not particularly reliant on the medium. That and the art direction makes me feel like it would come out better as a continuous animation with a narrator reading out the panel text. Certainly the pacing would be better, since I have no loving clue how fast I'm meant to scroll onward to make everything sync up properly. It's kind of a cool use of technology, but also completely pointless by way of being fake interactivity: it doesn't need to be me personally commanding the story to advance, and the story gains nothing from that being the case. The story has its own pace that it would be best told at, but I don't know what that should be until after I've read it; contrast with the walkaround segments of Homestuck (and similar games or interactive stories elsewhere, like Looming) where being able to set your own pace is part of the telling, and immerses you in the character's situation. tl;dr: 'Interactive' stories that don't need to be are really loving irritating. Roll on the multimedia webcomics, sure, but let it be used to make the story better rather than worse.
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Nov 7, 2011 14:11
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MrBims posted:While I believe it is very likely that beta-John actually came to the alpha timeline as part of The Choice, it hasn't been shown yet. We will probably get back to that 5 or 6 months down the line when Hussie realizes he is still only a quarter of the way through Act 6. Basically this. Hopefully you're right since otherwise this could get very confusing. The "easiest" way for the dream bubbles to work is that only those who died in the alpha timeline end up in one, and if one of a player's two selves are dead then that self is in the dream bubbles but if they go god-tier they merge back together. That way, all the god-tier players have no (alpha) selves in the dream bubbles, and all the doubly-dead characters like Tavros and Nepeta and so on have just one self in the dream bubbles. It'd still mean there's a Karkat, Terezi, Kanaya, and Gamzee (Um... Sollux?) in the dream bubbles since their dream selves are dead and they'd be following Jade's example, but still, keeps the clutter down. And I guess we'll always have the hundreds of Aradias, couple of extra Daves, and the mystery of beta-John. Hey, if beta-John made it to this timeline, Rose 'returned' through her dream self, and of course future Dave came back and became Davesprite, does that mean the only kid lost forever from that timeline was Jade? Any chance whatever shenenigens John pulled to come back to the alpha brought Jade (even if dead) with him? It'd be nice if Davesprite could be with 'his' Jade after getting kicked repeatedly in the junk by fate whoops who typed that lies and slander. Dolash fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 14:53
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Dolash posted:Hey, if beta-John made it to this timeline, Rose 'returned' through her dream self, and of course future Dave came back and became Davesprite, does that mean the only kid lost forever from that timeline was Jade? Yeah, Beta Dave and Rose speculate that she never even made it off Earth.
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Nov 7, 2011 16:11
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YF-23 posted:Apologies in advance, but Alright, but the implication that more words = worse is really annoying and should stop being bandied about as stylistic gospel by people who've never published work in their life. I don't think Hussie's writing is the best ever, but I recognise what he's doing with the fluffy, verbose style, and comparing him to Tim Buckley as if they're united in the same technical mistake is childish.
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Nov 7, 2011 16:51
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Anyone who unironically compares Andrew Hussie to Tim Buckley because of  is obviously a sad sack of tears who can't move past it and heal. Hussie and Buckley are both verbose, but everything Buckley writes is either equivocating white noise or offensively awful attempts at humor. Hussie writes a lot, but he writes things that are actually entertaining in a non-bile fascination way.Also Hussie can actually draw and tell an engaging story.
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Nov 7, 2011 17:25
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Similarities between Tim Buckley and Andrew Hussie (a complete list):
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Nov 7, 2011 17:44
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Both have extremely notable facial features (Buckley's birdhair, Hussie's lips)
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Nov 7, 2011 17:48
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Well Manicured Man posted:Anyone who unironically compares Andrew Hussie to Tim Buckley because of "That's like, just your opinion man."  -a real person, somewhere on the internet In conclusion, the last five pages have been the stupidest this thread and its predecessors have ever been. Yes, that includes Vriskachat and the pesterchum roleplaying. Friday cannot possibly come soon enough.
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Nov 7, 2011 17:50
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They also run completely different webcomics in vastly different styles. CAD is episodic and meant to set up a scenario at the beginning of a comic strip and end with a punchline. MSPA comics are continuous stories where no single page stands alone as an entire story arc. The reason why people make fun of CAD for being full of words is because it doesn't suit the medium. Word bubbles aren't meant to contain complete 3-4 sentence paragraphs. They are often big enough to make it appear as if the characters and art were crammed into the panel around the word bubbles rather than the word bubbles being placed in the empty space that the artist intended for them. In Homestuck, pesterlogs tend to be so long and drawn out because they're presented in the form of chat logs. Because of the medium through which the story is being driven, Hussie can get away with a lot of words, especially since they're all moving a story forward. And then you have Karkat, who can be redundant and ramble on through several sentences without making the point he was setting out to make. But that's characterization. Mr. D Bewildering fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 17:54
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Hussie actually knows how to play with the English language. Buckley only thinks he does. That makes a world of difference. Also as best as I can tell Hussie is not a gigantic self-important douchebag.
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Nov 7, 2011 17:56
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Thundarr posted:Hussie actually knows how to play with the English language. Buckley only thinks he does. That makes a world of difference. Some people seem to get that impression of him. I'm not completely sure why, he always seemed self-effacing in his "self-aggrandizement".
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Nov 7, 2011 18:03
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The only reason I made the comparison at all is because the jist of what some people were saying was "Homestuck is always good therefore more of Homestuck is always better and the concept of too much does not exist when Hussie gently caresses his computer's keyboard". Anyway I thought we were done talking about this.
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Nov 7, 2011 18:49
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Thundarr posted:Also as best as I can tell Hussie is not a gigantic self-important douchebag. But I saw him once at a con and I'm pretty sure he's a sociopath. 
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Nov 7, 2011 18:54
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Mr. Lobe posted:Some people seem to get that impression of him. I'm not completely sure why, he always seemed self-effacing in his "self-aggrandizement". I was always under the impression he was a pretty chill guy in person, but played up a ridiculous personality for the internet because he found it hilarious. I dunno though, maybe he is a jerk in real life? As for the comic itself, Homestuck feels to me like it rests in a weird prototype stage - like the Apple Newton. It does a lot of new things that are pretty amazing, but it is rough and unpolished. But I think a couple years down the line people are going to catch on to what he did but with the hindsight of being able to look and see what worked and what didn't, to make a much more refined product. Leading the pack will probably be Hussie, but after having learned what did and didn't work over the course of the comic.
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Nov 7, 2011 19:37
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Mr. Lobe posted:Some people seem to get that impression of him. I'm not completely sure why, he always seemed self-effacing in his "self-aggrandizement". One recurring criticism I've noticed is that some people take his tendency to over-explain stuff as being condescending. It probably doesn't help that sometimes he does outright talk down to people in response to some of the dumber questions readers have, so I can't blame people reading his more neutral nuts-and-bolts commentaries as also being smug. He also sticks to his guns, hard, which really irritates some people. I don't think it's fair to compare him to Buckley on this point; while a few of his rants have been kind of petty he does usually acknowledge flaws, he just tends to justify them as acceptable trade-offs.
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Nov 7, 2011 19:51
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Dolash posted:It'd still mean there's a Karkat, Terezi, Kanaya, and Gamzee (Um... Sollux?) in the dream bubbles since their dream selves are dead and they'd be following Jade's example, but still, keeps the clutter down. And I guess we'll always have the hundreds of Aradias, couple of extra Daves, and the mystery of beta-John. I don't think their dreamselves are in the bubbles at all times, just when the person in question is asleep. Do you remember when Aradia was going through a tour of the different dreambubbles, people kept phasing out (I assume because they were waking up) all the time. If the dreambubbles dreamselves only exist when the person in question is asleep, then there's no real issue of both existing at the same time. Ammat The Ankh fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 19:53
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MrBims posted:The idea of a story that starts with a bad potty humor joke being worshiped as classical literature in middle-school classrooms in the far future is... well, poo poo, I don't know how I would feel about that. Chaucher's Canterbury Tales has fart jokes in it.
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Nov 8, 2011 00:41
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SoupyTwist posted:Chaucher's Canterbury Tales has fart jokes in it. Everything has fuckin' fart jokes. Elizabethan drama is absolutely rife with saucy tooting.
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Nov 8, 2011 00:45
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I know (hope) we're past the literary comparison throwdown, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare was considered downright trashy in his day. I mean, theater was pretty persecuted in Puritan England, there's a reason they had to build them alongside the bordellos just outside the city limits. Anyway. I don't think Homestuck would translate well to any other medium. Hell, I don't even know if it ages well, so much of it comes from the moment-to-moment interactions and reactions of the fanbase and the authour. Does the jokey troll romance tantrum make sense unless you were there to read all the angry posts about trolls? Do the big flash updates carry the same weight if you haven't waited weeks for each of them? What about the injokes you're just not going to notice, like the PantsKat stuff? Short of cramming the whole thing on to a disc/into a file that's formatted to store the whole comic as-is in an easily interactable medium, any other effort to deliver Homestuck would be akin to writing the whole thing over from scratch. Almost none of it would work with books like Problem Sleuth does (the text is unsuited and goes on for a length comparable to Lord of the Rings, try to make that fit nice on a page as a column of instant messages. Music is right out, interactive flashes can't be interactive, gifs are frozen, hell the only thing that might work are the mostly-still panels). I'd be sort of idly interested to see how it might translate to a novel since all the fan-fiction writers, even the ones who are actually not bad (well, not totally bad) writers, have failed to capture the essence of the comic itself even if they can capture some of the characters. Maybe only Hussie could perform that sort of magic, but I don't know how his prose holds up and I don't know if he'd ever care to try it.
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Nov 8, 2011 01:51
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Dolash posted:I know (hope) we're past the literary comparison throwdown, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare was considered downright trashy in his day. I mean, theater was pretty persecuted in Puritan England, there's a reason they had to build them alongside the bordellos just outside the city limits. Well, it's not like it would go to print completely unedited (even discounting things that simply wouldn't make it to print). That troll romance tantrum could very well be removed just because it's an in-joke that new readers wouldn't understand. Or maybe he'd just add some commentary to add the necessary context to it in order to preserve the joke in some sense. Assuming he's not just going to distribute discs with the website on it (which of course he won't), Homestuck will need to be edited anyways. There's no reason not to really clean it up.
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Nov 8, 2011 02:05
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Dolash posted:I know (hope) we're past the literary comparison throwdown, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare was considered downright trashy in his day. I mean, theater was pretty persecuted in Puritan England, there's a reason they had to build them alongside the bordellos just outside the city limits. Shakespeare was most definitely not regarded as trash in his day. Dude performed for royalty, that was about as far from trash as you could get in those days. He was also very well respected by his peers. Sorry, I just like talking about Shakespeare. quote:Anyway. I don't think Homestuck would translate well to any other medium. Hell, I don't even know if it ages well, so much of it comes from the moment-to-moment interactions and reactions of the fanbase and the authour. Does the jokey troll romance tantrum make sense unless you were there to read all the angry posts about trolls? Do the big flash updates carry the same weight if you haven't waited weeks for each of them? What about the injokes you're just not going to notice, like the PantsKat stuff? I think Hussie's made it clear that Homestuck adapted into any other medium wouldn't be Homestuck anymore. He knows that a Homestuck graphic novel/novel wouldn't be able to do the same tricks as Homestuck the webcomic, and that's kind of the point of adapting anything into any other medium. He's exchanging the strengths of one medium for the strengths of another. quote:Short of cramming the whole thing on to a disc/into a file that's formatted to store the whole comic as-is in an easily interactable medium, any other effort to deliver Homestuck would be akin to writing the whole thing over from scratch. Almost none of it would work with books like Problem Sleuth does (the text is unsuited and goes on for a length comparable to Lord of the Rings, try to make that fit nice on a page as a column of instant messages. Music is right out, interactive flashes can't be interactive, gifs are frozen, hell the only thing that might work are the mostly-still panels). I have no idea how he plans on pulling it off of if even he himself knows yet. If he is planning to adapt it from scratch, as I imagine he has to, then I can't see him working on it and keeping up with the next MSPaint Adventure concurrently, unless the guy forgoes eating and sleeping.
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Nov 8, 2011 02:13
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Dolash posted:I know (hope) we're past the literary comparison throwdown, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare was considered downright trashy in his day. I mean, theater was pretty persecuted in Puritan England, there's a reason they had to build them alongside the bordellos just outside the city limits. Not downright trashy, but not really like, haute couture I guess. He had mass appeal but the thing is like, English was still in the throes of artistic puberty and we didn't consider the study of English literature to be like, a thing. The Queen liked him though, you know? It's a really interesting question because the 16th through 17th centuries are more than any other time the period where English was very much caught between its past as an agent of workaday culture and informal language, and its future as a respected artistic medium. You could in a more direct (and only dubiously correct) sense stick a pin in Paradise Lost and say, "There", but Shakespeare despite being eighty years or so behind very much has a place in that dialectic too. In fact his plays embody it - it's very famously known and very true that he has two broad tones for his characters, one rarefied and one bawdy, and although of course these two intermingle it's usually easy to immediately spot which character is written to the spoken culture of the groundlings and which is written to the people with an interest in artistic English. Imagine like a rapper with clever, intricate lyrics, might be a good analogy. Some people are gonna say that's art, others will say it's just pop culture. People listening to it can probably find both or either and enjoy both or either.
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Nov 8, 2011 02:18
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The reason I brought up novel changes in the first place because I heard(although I don't remember WHERE, now, which makes it all exceedingly unhelpful) that Hussie wasn't even going to go the Problem Sleuth book route, but actually adapt Homestuck entirely into actual novels, which would really make them entirely different beasts.
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Nov 8, 2011 04:09
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That would be totally weird and I wouldn't like that at all. Homestuck is a webcomic that can only really be a webcomic. It doesn't make sense in any other format.
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Nov 8, 2011 04:12
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Pretty sure he was just going to make book collections. He was talking about it near the start of the hiatus and said it would take about 30 books.
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Nov 8, 2011 04:17
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I only just now kinda got the whole "Speaker of the Vast Croak"/"Speaker of the Vast Joke" thing. There's no huge significance behind it, I can just sorta imagine agents of the black kingdom being all "MORE LIKE A VAST JOKE AMIRITE".
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Nov 8, 2011 04:49
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Kit Walker posted:But I saw him once at a con and I'm pretty sure he's a sociopath. I love you for this. Let's never forget that one guy.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:22
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JT Jag posted:I only just now kinda got the whole "Speaker of the Vast Croak"/"Speaker of the Vast Joke" thing. There's no huge significance behind it, I can just sorta imagine agents of the black kingdom being all "MORE LIKE A VAST JOKE AMIRITE". Where is "speaker of the vast joke" mentioned, I don't remember that. I've only read through it once though, so it probably slipped my mind trying to figure out all the timey-wimey poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:25
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I think it was just a derogatory term the Dersites used for the Vast Croak. Scratch talked about it a little during his exposition about the Signless.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:26
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Level Slide posted:I think it was just a derogatory term the Dersites used for the Vast Croak. Scratch talked about it a little during his exposition about the Signless. anyway look at this comic http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005288 Cal "abandoned Hussie for Captain Hook" Lord English has a peg leg I don't think it's a coincidence
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Nov 8, 2011 05:32
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JT Jag posted:anyway look at this comic http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005288 Captain Hook doesn't have a peg leg. Though for some reason the idea that he has an eye patch has made its way into popular culture. He does however have blue eyes, black hair and a prosthetic hand, and he stabbed Rufio through the chest.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:39
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(regarding Kanaya transforming into a a glowing vampire thing) AA: you are undergoing a metamorphosis which you have been groomed for since you were very young AA: much like i was for my various personal iterations including this one (referencing her reaching God Tier) Considering the suspicious circumstances by which her dreamself found itself on that quest bed along with strange statements like this, it kinda tosses another one on the "Aradia is working for Lord English, whether she knows it/is willing or not" wagon.
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Nov 8, 2011 07:58
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I don't really buy into the whole "everyone is serving Lord English!" thing, or at least they don't consciously. I think the master Aradia references serving is paradox space itself, which is implied to be in some way sentient. Although given how well Doc Scratch plays everyone there's a good chance they're doing it unwittingly, I'll grant that.
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Nov 8, 2011 09:06
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I'm still personally buying into "Aradia was used by Scratch/Lord English up until the critical moment, but now that he's summoned she's free to do whatever the gently caress she wants and 'what she wants' is to kick his monstrous particolored rear end." Really don't buy Dave and Rose being servants of Lord English, either. All of it just really reminds me of "Rose is turning evil!!!  " Hey remember that big log between Rose and John that was basically like "no, you fuckwits, she's really not"? I'm basically expecting to see one of those for the "servants of Lord English" thing. (I figured "including this one" meant more of her ghost-robot self considering the statement also applies to her other iterations, none of whom went godtier.)
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Nov 8, 2011 10:51
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The simple way I see it, this late in the game it makes no sense to suddenly introduce a bunch of new villains. Handling LE by himself will be hard enough as it is.
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Nov 8, 2011 12:40
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