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NGL posted:Your analogy doesn't work, though. Vader didn't surrender to anyone. He didn't provide the Alliance with any information that would end the war. He sacrificed himself to kill the Emperor. I wasn't going for a one to one analogy, I was just trying to put Vader into some kind of real life context: the number two guy under an evil dictator who himself was directly responsible for unimaginable horrors. The question is, is that kind of person ever redeemable or even forgivable? If so, that puts a real Catholic spin on SW (and obviously I'm not the first to say that). And if anything, wouldn't that reflect poorly upon Himmler/Vader? That he didn't really give two shits about the entire galaxy, who he killed, etc., but once he got his rear end whipped and the Emperor was ready to dump him, then he goes "good". quote:If, on the other hand, Himmler saved the life of his long lost Jewish son by killing Hitler (and sacrificing himself to do so), then people would probably look a bit more kindly on him. Wow, I would think the exact opposite. His motives would have been entirely selfish (and yes, giving your life for your child can be a selfish act). I would think that if he had done something that put his family at risk to end the war, then he would be looked at more kindly. But still not kindly overall.
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Nov 8, 2011 03:46
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This thread has taken an oddly  turn.
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Nov 8, 2011 03:47
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:I wasn't going for a one to one analogy, I was just trying to put Vader into some kind of real life context: the number two guy under an evil dictator who himself was directly responsible for unimaginable horrors. The question is, is that kind of person ever redeemable or even forgivable? If so, that puts a real Catholic spin on SW (and obviously I'm not the first to say that). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Vader would - or even should - be universally forgiven for his war crimes. But that doesn't lessen the sacrifice he made or what it accomplished.
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Nov 8, 2011 04:02
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Did anyone save the text of that fan fiction about how C3PO and R2 were in control the whole time or whatever? I want my girlfriend to read it...
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Nov 8, 2011 04:54
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gently caress every time I read this thread, besides dreaming about how much better the PT could have been, I want to pick up a decent Star Wars EU book. I've read the Thrawn trilogy and became disinterested with the story of Bane. Any recommendations?
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Nov 8, 2011 05:24
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Kneel Before Zog posted:gently caress every time I read this thread, besides dreaming about how much better the PT could have been, I want to pick up a decent Star Wars EU book. I've read the Thrawn trilogy and became disinterested with the story of Bane. Any recommendations? The X-Wing books are pretty enjoyable, I thought.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:28
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Kneel Before Zog posted:gently caress every time I read this thread, besides dreaming about how much better the PT could have been, I want to pick up a decent Star Wars EU book. I've read the Thrawn trilogy and became disinterested with the story of Bane. Any recommendations? There is a thread linked to in the OP but I'm pretty sure the x-wing series is something you would be interested in. e;fb -_-
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Nov 8, 2011 05:31
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151 5 star reviews on Amazon. Nice. Does it feature Luke primarily, or revolve around Jedi and the force? Cool Jedi and force power fights is really what i'm most interested in.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:37
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Kneel Before Zog posted:151 5 star reviews on Amazon. Nice. Does it feature Luke primarily, or revolve around Jedi and the force? Cool Jedi and force power fights is really what i'm most interested in. No, it's more about Rogue Squadron, with Luke playing a pretty small role. If you want Force power battles and the like, I'd suggest reading Labyrinth of Evil, the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, and possibly Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. I hear Shatterpoint is really good, too, but I've not read it.
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Nov 8, 2011 05:40
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I've gotta say that Shatterpoint is one of my favourite EU PT (ish) novels, its rather dark though with an extra helping of grit sprinkled with grit. Essentially its Star Wars vietnam  But it makes Mace Windu out to be the badass that we knew we wanted to see in the PT - definetly one of Matthew Stovers most awesome books (Right up there with the ROTS book)and has some great momentsThat reminds me, I'm reading The Shadows of Mindor at the moment I was kinda put off with all the shadowspawn spacewizard stuff, but as I'm getting further into the book, I'm finding it much much better! I really like his characterisations of the big three (Leia, Han and Luke), I feel he writes them in a much more natural fashion than anything else I've read so far.
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Nov 8, 2011 06:10
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Red Robin Hood posted:Did anyone save the text of that fan fiction about how C3PO and R2 were in control the whole time or whatever? I want my girlfriend to read it... Here you go.
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Nov 8, 2011 06:27
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Torael_7 posted:Here you go. Thank you, sir! 
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Nov 8, 2011 06:48
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Not A Bear posted:That reminds me, I'm reading The Shadows of Mindor at the moment I was kinda put off with all the shadowspawn spacewizard stuff, but as I'm getting further into the book, I'm finding it much much better! I really like his characterisations of the big three (Leia, Han and Luke), I feel he writes them in a much more natural fashion than anything else I've read so far. Just think of all the dark wizard stuff as an exaggeration of what was really going on, since it's supposed to be a movie about what really happened.
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Nov 8, 2011 14:19
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arioch posted:Just think of all the dark wizard stuff as an exaggeration of what was really going on, since it's supposed to be a movie about what really happened. Whoa whoa whoa, total spoilers there dude.  (don't worry Red Robin Hood, it's a minor plot point at most)
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Nov 8, 2011 14:23
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Other than a few daft moments 'Death Star' is worth picking up.
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Nov 8, 2011 15:25
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Not A Bear posted:I've gotta say that Shatterpoint is one of my favourite EU PT (ish) novels, its rather dark though with an extra helping of grit sprinkled with grit. Essentially its Star Wars vietnam He pitched it as 'Apocalypse Now with Jedi.' I'm probably out of the mainstream here but I think Shatterpoint is Stover's best book, far better than the ROTS novel. My girlfriend likes sci-fi but other than enjoying the OT is not a Star Wars fan at all, but she read and loved Shatterpoint.
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Nov 8, 2011 17:34
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Kneel Before Zog posted:151 5 star reviews on Amazon. Nice. Does it feature Luke primarily, or revolve around Jedi and the force? Cool Jedi and force power fights is really what i'm most interested in.
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Nov 9, 2011 01:36
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Yeah, that's probably the best you're going to get for Jedi adventures without looking at the prequel era stuff, which I don't know as well. "I, Jedi" is basically two books stapled together. One, the first bit, has the eponymous Jedi part of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Temple as a decent author tries to salvage via slight background editing an important bit of the universe that was rather mishandled by Kevin J. Anderson. Then, partway through, he leaves and joins his own new plotline as he tries to use his new Jedi abilities to save his wife in a completely different story with basically no characters or plot carrying over. It'll make more sense if you read the Jedi Academy books first, but those aren't very good. I understand there might be a tolerable summary of those in the Book Barn thread if you'd like to approach it that way instead.
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Nov 9, 2011 02:10
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:The real answer is that the carbonite is visually bitching and adds a bit of old timey serial feel to it. Anyone got an in-universe explanation? I'm expecting some good poo poo on this one. The Clone Wars CG had Anakin and some others frozen in carbonite to get past life sign detectors. And in the new MMO there's a bunch of people frozen and hung up like Han was in one screenshot. So it was a thing they did. 3500 years before. Yeah.
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Nov 9, 2011 04:23
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I really hate that too because Lando's dialogue in ESB heavily implies it's never been tried before, since they want to test it first. And if it had been done in secret by some pirates or something, I'm sure Lando of all people would know something about it.
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Nov 9, 2011 05:37
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RagnarokAngel posted:I really hate that too because Lando's dialogue in ESB heavily implies it's never been tried before, since they want to test it first. And if it had been done in secret by some pirates or something, I'm sure Lando of all people would know something about it. Well, you see, I believe the George Lucas Approved Retcon is that Vader says, "This facility is crude, but it should be adequate to freeze Skywalker for his journey to the Emperor" and so a regular facility would have done just fine, but Bespin wasn't up to date with technology from 20 years ago, I guess. Although my favorite George Lucas Approved Retcon is that R2D2's rocket boosters (the ones which enabled him to fly during The Clone Wars/PT) were damaged between episodes 3 and 4 and since R2 is an older model, the necessary repair parts were too rare and hence he was never able to fly again.
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Nov 9, 2011 08:19
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RagnarokAngel posted:I really hate that too because Lando's dialogue in ESB heavily implies it's never been tried before, since they want to test it first. And if it had been done in secret by some pirates or something, I'm sure Lando of all people would know something about it. I agree. Yet another terrible thing done in an attempt to chip away at ESB.
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Nov 9, 2011 16:20
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White vader for whoever asked: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:WhiteVader.jpg http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Infinities:_Return_of_the_Jedi
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Nov 9, 2011 17:22
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Pope Mobile posted:White vader for whoever asked: I just read the swap.avi review on the frontpage, but somehow this is more depressing.
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Nov 9, 2011 17:29
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Pope Mobile posted:White vader for whoever asked:  So he keeps the Nazi helmet and the demon mask and everything, but just turns white? Subtle, EU, very subtle.
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Nov 9, 2011 17:50
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It would barely make sense that the rebellion might not have the time/equipment to build him a fancy new life support helmet to replace the Vader one (although they gave Luke a sweet hand, but maybe Vader's stuff would be more specific/customized, whatever). But then you'd think he's just do something about the giant black cape and other 'soft' furnishings, maybe get a hood to take the edge of his look. Nope, apparently they just broke out some spare autopaint from sprucing up the x-wings. Should have at least airbrushed some flames on the helmet.
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Nov 9, 2011 17:55
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Forum Actuary posted:The Clone Wars CG had Anakin and some others frozen in carbonite to get past life sign detectors. And in the new MMO there's a bunch of people frozen and hung up like Han was in one screenshot. So it was a thing they did. 3500 years before. Yeah. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter had one of the main characters getting voluntarily frozen in an attempt to make Maul think he was dead (and then go back to try and kill Maul for some brilliant reason)
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Nov 9, 2011 18:20
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Some stupid ensign accidentally threw his cape in with the whites. There was no turning back after that.
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Nov 9, 2011 18:50
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thrawn527 posted:I agree. Yet another terrible thing done in an attempt to chip away at ESB. Don't forget though that in the same scene Threepio says that Han should be fine if he survives the freezing process implying that it has been done before & its possible Threepio has seen it happen before.
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Nov 9, 2011 19:44
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I always that line was just 3P0 being 3P0 and stating the obvious. He'll be safe in there...IF he survives the freezing process? That's a pretty big if.
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Nov 9, 2011 20:15
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Carbonite freezing was probably something that maybe slipped in and out of popularity. With FTL travel, the need for it in the 'modern' age probably slipped from being useful. Also, there is the possibility of extreme harm during the process that makes it scary for most people to try because most people who would try it aren't skilled enough to do it safely. However, the Emperor already has one severely injured Sith Lord at his side: Would he really be opposed to his replacement having some similarly controllable injuries due to a bad "Carbonite Manuever". If Luke came out needing robotic eyes, a new arm, artificial organs or having brain damage or emotional problems, he's already used to that out of a Skywalker.
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Nov 9, 2011 20:24
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Maybe so, but he'd be at 75% force power because he lost an arm.
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Nov 9, 2011 23:01
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Finishing up my Star Wars watchthrough and decided to follow up the blu-rays with Lego Star Wars: The Padawan Menace and holy poo poo, this thing is awesome! It occupies a higher place in my personal canon than the entirety of the prequel trilogy. Yoda fistbumping little kids owns hard and don't try to tell me otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2011 14:48
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Hemp Knight posted:Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter had one of the main characters getting voluntarily frozen in an attempt to make Maul think he was dead (and then go back to try and kill Maul for some brilliant reason) Hell-bent on revenge. He would have succeeded if his blaster had had a few more shots and he hadn't stood there going "Holy poo poo it worked!" in the five seconds that the stun bolt kept Maul down, too.
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Nov 10, 2011 14:51
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Torael_7 posted:Hell-bent on revenge. So what you're saying is Hokey Religions And Ancient Weapons Are No Substitute For A Good Blaster At Your Side?
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Nov 10, 2011 15:56
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I know we've talked about this before, but why aren't there any regular/non-blaster guns in the EU again?
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Nov 11, 2011 10:27
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Admiral Goodenough posted:I know we've talked about this before, but why aren't there any regular/non-blaster guns in the EU again? Because at the height of the Old Republic your regular criminal/soldier/space postman was still highly unlikely to run into a Jedi or Sith. Also although you have two power sources in a blaster(gas canister and power cell) those two sources will give you thousands of shots on one load. I think there were a few slugthrowing weapons in Republic Commando but even then they're referenced as being really archaic and clumsy.
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Nov 11, 2011 10:41
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Also something about armour protecting you from bullets but not from blasters.
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Nov 11, 2011 10:52
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I still think it's funny that no one was smart enough to develop a Final Fantasy style triple-bullet angle gun: I think it'd be almost impossible for a Jedi to deflect those all at once since a straight line can only block two angles.
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Nov 11, 2011 10:59
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arioch posted:Just think of all the dark wizard stuff as an exaggeration of what was really going on, since it's supposed to be a movie about what really happened. Yeah I've just finished the book, and that actually makes a lot of sense, it almost had a bit of a pulpy feel going on. The whole stuff with the Dark was kind of different also - not in a hugely bad way though Lando was definitely the best as well, it was good to see him in the role of a competent general - not just a wacky sidekick. The end was a bit weird though, was it just me, or did the character at the end seem like a bit of a self insert for the author? Complaining about deadlines and things? Chairman Capone posted:He pitched it as 'Apocalypse Now with Jedi.' Oh yeah that's a great way to describe it, I really enjoyed that element of the story. I'd definetly agree, I'd have to say that the novelisation of ROTS isnt far behind and I rather enjoyed Traitior (I think that's the one) as well though, even having not read much of the EU really.
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Nov 11, 2011 11:25
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