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Subparr posted:Apparently I'm not communicating my point well enough. Dude, you fail so hard at reading you do not appear to be able to distinguish between the people pointing out what an idiot you are. Please point out anything in my post about delicate sensibilities or brutishness. Please. My point continues to be that people going for high risk moves that they can't properly execute is a bad thing. By all means, please continue to tell us about the time you won the kumate with a flying heal hook to prove that idiots with no skill should be doing the same.
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Nov 8, 2011 03:41
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isn't judo designed to nullify the strengths of wrestling anyway
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Nov 8, 2011 03:49
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No, that's being Japanese. The judo thing is just coincidental. Anyway you know what's great? The crucifix. The crucifix is great. Also I totally do Eddie Bravo's twister roll for non-twister related things now, anybody else find themselves using it often?
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Nov 8, 2011 04:21
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I do love me some crucifix for trying to set up a side triangle or a far side americana or kimura. Stops me getting bench pressed by the massive dudes I roll with sometimes.
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Nov 8, 2011 07:00
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Siamang posted:Went to my second competition this Saturday. I was the only 154 pounder in my division(30+ white belt), and they merged me into 168. I won by sub in my first fight, then the match between two other guys ended in like two minutes and I wound up having to fight again right after that. Like an idiot I declined the offered 3 minute rest period, was too gassed to do anything right against a guy who hadn't fought yet and was in good shape, and lost the match on points. Still, it was a lot of fun, and once again the competitors were class acts. You had really good back control in that first match. Really good. As for declining the rest period, what did you learn? (Always take the rest period, you paid for entry, so take all the time you can get)
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Nov 8, 2011 07:18
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Siamang posted:Went to my second competition this Saturday. I was the only 154 pounder in my division(30+ white belt), and they merged me into 168. I won by sub in my first fight, then the match between two other guys ended in like two minutes and I wound up having to fight again right after that. Like an idiot I declined the offered 3 minute rest period, was too gassed to do anything right against a guy who hadn't fought yet and was in good shape, and lost the match on points. Still, it was a lot of fun, and once again the competitors were class acts. I dont know much about how BJJ comps are scored. Do you get points at all for throws? Or are they purely used to enter groundwork?
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Nov 8, 2011 07:36
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Throws would count as a takedown, which does score you points. No more than a shot or the ever effective fake foot sweep a dude pulling guard technique however, apart from style points (or an opportunity to set yourself up in a good position immediately off the throw). I actually meant the other crucifix blindsite.
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Nov 8, 2011 07:52
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Crazyeyes posted:I dont know much about how BJJ comps are scored. Do you get points at all for throws? Or are they purely used to enter groundwork? Depending on the competition, throws are either always 2 points, or 2/3 points (2 for a throw/takedown that lands you in guard, 3 for one that lands you in a better position)
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Nov 8, 2011 09:27
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Acinonyx posted:Dude, you fail so hard at reading you do not appear to be able to distinguish between the people pointing out what an idiot you are. Please point out anything in my post about delicate sensibilities or brutishness. Please. I totally did that. Twice. Maybe you can't read my posts. I'm saying there is no way for YOU to know what OTHER PEOPLE can execute and that you shouldn't assume things about people who aren't you. Making BLANKET statements about the effectiveness of ANY specific technique is just ignorant. That is the only point I've been trying to make. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, but dealing in absolutes is just flat out incorrect. However, feel free to get mad and just keep calling me stupid if it makes you feel better on the internet. ANYWAY, sorry to derail, has anyone ever seen the Ciao Terra DVDs? AZCollins fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 17:39
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Subparr posted:Maybe you can't read my posts. I'm saying there is no way for YOU to know what OTHER PEOPLE can execute and that you shouldn't assume things about people who aren't you. Making BLANKET statements about the effectiveness of ANY specific technique is just ignorant. That is the only point I've been trying to make. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, but dealing in absolutes is just flat out incorrect. this is dumb and wrong and certain techniques being more high-percentage is tautologically true in every sport please stop this nonsense
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Nov 8, 2011 18:03
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Dante posted:this is dumb and wrong and certain techniques being more high-percentage is tautologically true in every sport please stop this nonsense This is totally correct. Let me rephrase. This was said: "Most people in non-advanced divisions trying flying techniques have little to no chance of hitting them." That's an opinion. My point was, there's a time and place for every technique, there are different skill levels between individuals, and that just because it's high-risk, it shouldn't be eliminated from consideration. It's not 'spaztard nonsense.' There are too many factors. Sorry if I didn't communicate that well enough. This was also said, "One of the guys I fought at a promotional was nearly knocked out cold attempting a flying armbar on me (a technique, while not expressly forbidden, is highly frowned upon due to the utter idiocy of nearly everyone who attempts them). Wasn't even a large enough tournament to need to do such crazy antics." This is calling "nearly everyone who attempts a flying armbar an idiot." Do you guys agree? AZCollins fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 18:07
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but flying armbars IS spaztard nonsense 
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Nov 8, 2011 18:28
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Subparr posted:This is totally correct. Let me rephrase. The problem is it's high risk for no point at all. Just two pages ago there was a video of someone breaking their opponent's leg or something ridiculous like that when they went for a flying armbar. I'm not a fan of saying to a white belt 'I trust you are skilled enough to not injure yourself or me while flying through the air attempting to latch onto one of my arms'. It's cool you won by flying armbar or whatever but honestly what if your opponent simply spiked you headfirst onto the mat if you went for it? What's the loving point?
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Nov 8, 2011 18:54
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Just two pages ago there was a video of someone breaking their opponent's leg or something ridiculous like that when they went for a flying armbar. When that happens who wins the match?
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Nov 8, 2011 18:57
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origami posted:When that happens who wins the match? I don't know. I would assume a no contest or draw or something and the guy with the not broken poo poo advances. In a fair world he would be disqualified and the dude with the injury given a win but I'm not sure.
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Nov 8, 2011 18:59
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I don't know. I would assume a no contest or draw or something and the guy with the not broken poo poo advances. It was the gold medal match and the guy who wasn't injured won gold since the injury was accidental and not the result of an illegal technique. If it makes any difference he certainly didn't feel very good about it.
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Nov 8, 2011 19:14
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Wow he won? I have my first tournament coming up so I may just open every match jumping and flailing at my opponent.
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Nov 8, 2011 19:17
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colonel_korn posted:It was the gold medal match and the guy who wasn't injured won gold since the injury was accidental and not the result of an illegal technique. If it makes any difference he certainly didn't feel very good about it. I don't think flying armbars should be illegal, I just think they're stupid. That said I don't like how they decided to give the other guy the win. I'm sure his intention was to not colossally fail at flying armbar but honestly he was nowhere close to hitting it and to say 'whoops, who knew that launching my body at my opponent through the air could hurt him?' seems a bit disingenuous.
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Nov 8, 2011 19:24
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:The problem is it's high risk for no point at all. Just two pages ago there was a video of someone breaking their opponent's leg or something ridiculous like that when they went for a flying armbar. I'm not a fan of saying to a white belt 'I trust you are skilled enough to not injure yourself or me while flying through the air attempting to latch onto one of my arms'. Yeah, and that person sucks at flying armbars and shouldn't do them in a tournament. It is high risk and can be detrimental. It's a technique though, a technique you practice and can get good at if you really wanted to. I'm not advocating telling people to do something they've never or rarely practiced if they have better techniques to do. I'm also not saying there aren't better things to drill. In my case I was lucky as hell and I know it. There are guys that flying armbar people, even at the top level. Jacare and Aoki used to do it quite a bit. Is it high risk? Heck yes. Should people constantly do them? Of course not, but there's a time and a place and it works for some INDIVIDUAL people.
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Nov 8, 2011 19:57
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Subparr posted:In my case I was lucky as hell and I know it. There are guys that flying armbar people, even at the top level. Jacare and Aoki used to do it quite a bit. how much is 'quite a bit' more exactly?
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Nov 8, 2011 20:17
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Well, Vinny Magalhaes did it twice at ADCC in 2009, in the same tournament. Here's some highlight video for Jacare showing him doing it a bunch (gi and no gi), even mixing in flying triangles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WD36oHTnU Aoki's nickname is Tobikan Judan, which I think means flying submission master. There are lots of grappling videos floating around of his. Now these are obviously top level guys, who have obviously practiced doing this technique a lot. Edit: I forgot how badass that Jacare video is. AZCollins fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 20:32
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Subparr posted:Well, Vinny Magalhaes did it twice at ADCC in 2009, in the same tournament. Here's some highlight video for Jacare showing him doing it a bunch (gi and no gi), even mixing in flying triangles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WD36oHTnU how many high level judokas throw flying arm bars or triangles?
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Nov 8, 2011 20:36
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origami posted:how many high level judokas throw flying arm bars or triangles? I have no idea. Why does that matter?
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Nov 8, 2011 20:39
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Subparr posted:I have no idea. Why does that matter? Because this entire discussion started with talking about judo, not BJJ.
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Nov 8, 2011 20:42
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Subparr posted:I have no idea. Why does that matter? I think you should agree with whoever you're arguing with that you're both dumb and move on.
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Nov 8, 2011 20:51
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Because this entire discussion started with talking about judo, not BJJ. The people who've actually responded were just bashing the flying armbar as a useless technique. I can't comment on competition Judo, nor did I ever try to. Even the video you talked about was a BJJ match.
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Nov 8, 2011 20:54
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Dave Camarillo was all about flying attacks in judo comps. Shinya Aoki also uses flying attacks in judo comps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl48nAw0n7U Both originally judokas, but BBs in BJJ as well. e: Aoki's opponent, Koji Komuro, is an instructor at the Kodokan. Bangkero fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 21:18
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no he's right actually it started out on the topic of judo which in my opinion is kind of an important distinction considering the amount of time that people in BJJ and nogi wrestling spend on submissions compared to judo fighters it's still a dumb technique that is rarely used at high level for good reasons. the reason it's a dumb technique is because the amount of times it's used grows inversely to the skill level of the practictioners using it, showy highlight videos notwithstanding Subparr posted:Yeah, and that person sucks at flying armbars and shouldn't do them in a tournament. It is high risk and can be detrimental. It's a technique though, a technique you practice and can get good at if you really wanted to. I'm not advocating telling people to do something they've never or rarely practiced if they have better techniques to do. I'm also not saying there aren't better things to drill. you're basically making sense here and i'm not sure why after this you continue to defend this thing except on principle bearing in mind that we are obviously (?) discussing local tournaments here, not world superstar fighters
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Nov 8, 2011 21:19
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Well, in my specific instance, I was down on points, I had no time, the dude was a better wrestler than me, and I went for the only hail mary I could think of. It was something I had practiced some, I was about to lose, so eff it. I tried. My point is, it's a technique. A technique can and will work differently when done by different people with different skill levels and under different circumstances. The negatives involved in my opinion, do not make it completely useless, nor do I think anyone should make that decision for other people. That goes for any technique really. The only useless techniques I can think of are ones that are banned, because doing them gets you DQed. I fully respect your right never to use the flying armbar or whatever other technique you don't think works. Sorry for the huge derail. AZCollins fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 21:32
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My only qualm with the flying arm bar is that there's very little time to actually do anything to prevent yourself from getting your poo poo wrecked. I don't trust a white belt to not rip my poo poo out of my socket or land on my knee or anything like that. Would you like it if I instantly applied calf slicers (were they legal in the tournament) at full force without giving you a chance to tap?
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Nov 8, 2011 22:01
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Subparr posted:Sorry for the huge derail. No one here ever said the move doesn't work, or shouldn't be done. No one has said that you should not try a flying triangle. I will continue to say that it should not be done by people who are just going to injure themselves and/or others while accomplishing nothing. The discussion started because someone saw an idiot injure themselves going for a flying move. I feel safe in saying that a dude who throws himself in the air and lands on his head like a spaz should not be trying flying triangles live. I have no idea why you keep interpreting this position as a personal attack and a slight against the honor of flying triangles.
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Nov 8, 2011 22:34
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I think the flying armbar is a bit of a silly technique. It works sometimes, but its dangerous for both players. If you need a hail mary then go for it. The other thing is it is overused in lower levels of competition. I really don't understand why people love it and other flying moves.
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Nov 9, 2011 01:14
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Subparr posted:
Don't be sorry, you're talking about grappling in the grappling thread. We have Robert Drysdale teaching a week of classes at our gym in a month or so. To think this dude would ever come to my small city (Townsville, Queensland, Australia) is insane. Has anyone taken a class from him or been to a seminar?
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Nov 9, 2011 01:29
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westcoaster posted:I really don't understand why people love it and other flying moves. Instant win potential. People love shortcuts.
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Nov 9, 2011 03:30
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huh posted:Don't be sorry, you're talking about grappling in the grappling thread. I haven't trained with him but yesterday I trained with one of his purple belts and he was really good. The guy I trained with said Drysdale is a nice guy and a really good instructor.
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Nov 9, 2011 05:35
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is your team affiliated with any larger organisations? that might be why they've managed to get such a big name. we have a small gym called fightzone here in stockholm and they had a seminar hosted by leo vieira a couple of months ago i assume made possible mainly because they are affiliated with checkmat
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Nov 9, 2011 10:08
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Drysdale is doing a bit of a tour of Australia right now. There was a seminar at my club in Perth a couple of weeks back. I don't think it's that unusual, anyway; Rodolpho Vieira is running a week long programme at a local club that isn't a big centre or anything.
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Nov 9, 2011 10:13
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Neurosis posted:Drysdale is doing a bit of a tour of Australia right now. There was a seminar at my club in Perth a couple of weeks back. I don't think it's that unusual, anyway; Rodolpho Vieira is running a week long programme at a local club that isn't a big centre or anything. Hey Perth goon, just wondering which club are you at? I tried out the trial at Legion 13 a few months back and enjoyed it, just haven't been able to commit to it due to school and lack of funds recently. Any recommendations for grappling gyms in Perth?
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Nov 9, 2011 12:53
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the periodic fable posted:is your team affiliated with any larger organisations? that might be why they've managed to get such a big name. Yeah, our club is with The Arena MMA. Not sure but I think that's Drysdale's team(?) I get the reasons why he's coming here it's just that I would never have thought we'd get an opportunity like this. We don't even have a brown belt in the whole city. Neurosis, how was the seminar? Was it gi or no-gi? What was covered?
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Nov 10, 2011 02:37
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Gladstone posted:Hey Perth goon, just wondering which club are you at? I tried out the trial at Legion 13 a few months back and enjoyed it, just haven't been able to commit to it due to school and lack of funds recently. I'm at the Academy of MMA in Mirrabooka. I've only trained at Fight Club/Mach 1 in Osborne Park and AMMA so I couldn't really comment on how it is overall. AMMA is good if you want more of a focus on no-gi. I find no-gi to be a ton more fun so it works for me. All of them are tremendously expensive. The Beaufort street one is probably the worst offender. Fitness Fight Centre in northbridge had some okay prices but that is also a notorious hangout for bikies and was recently shot up over a bikie feud. quote:Neurosis, how was the seminar? Was it gi or no-gi? What was covered? Second-hand information says it was good; I had to miss it because of exam commitments. It was no-gi.
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Nov 10, 2011 06:02
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