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Because you can't always trust what people say to be the same as what they actually want, or to remain that way indefinitely. Much of the time it is what they want and want consistently, but tastes can change and evolve, as can wants, as can character motivations; and even out of the gate the paradox of choice is a very real thing. Capable improvisation and prioritization is a tool that will never, ever do you wrong.
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Nov 9, 2011 17:46
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I've been DMing a pathfinder/3.5 game and I'm a little worried that the players are getting bored. First let me explain the setting and how ridiculously powerful the PC's are. First I must explain this is an evil party of skeletal champions. The anti-paladin is a dead disgraced son of a noble who's body came into the hands of the necromancer, who's attempting to regain his lands with the begrudgingly assenting other skeleton PC's who follow out of fear more then anything, except greed. He's also taken leadership with hilarious results, having recruited a skeletal champion drunken master monk who before a wish could not drink alcohol. I could literally write a whole post just about this one character and the shenanigans surrounding him. The Rogue Sorceress, an elf with magic item creation feats, has been using literally every scrap of gold and magical material components to Boost the parties overall power. They have also helped build an evil cathedral for Undead Huenefer Jesus (read the epic 3.0 book monster section +20 levels of cleric) The Pole-arm weapon master, dude with a stupid powerful magic spear of super critical damage. He was banned from the game before because of inherent stupidity and picking fights with the group  .The Cleric who sacrifices children to lava to protect them from the catholic church, and who hasn't shown up to the last couple dozen games. A ninja who leaves a lot of brooms lying around from disappearing. A fighter who died of plague also brother to anti-paladin, who tries to disease anyone or thing he can. The DMNPC's include the succubus bard lover of the anti-paladin who's now shacked up permanently in the castle not bothering to accompany her anti-paladin husband into danger. Then baubles, the Babau demon rogue, who has a long assorted fetish for boxes and killing people who open them. The favorite of everyone in the Game is Kenka Deisui, The Drunken Skeleton monk, giving hope to the dead N/PC's that they too can enjoy unlife. They literally spent a one shot chance wish to let this dude drink again. The anti paladin's cohort list caps out with his sister, a straight universal wizard. Who will be filling out the ranks of the now baron Anti-paladins army. This game has been fun for all concerned until recently, where most challenges for them have been extreme in either direction, too easy or kill everyone in the party if the fighters die. The main problem I'm thinking is they are just entirely too powerful, so anything of their appropriate challenge rating just can't compete. What can I do to make my game fun again?
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Nov 9, 2011 18:25
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Worlds Smuggest posted:This game has been fun for all concerned until recently, where most challenges for them have been extreme in either direction, too easy or kill everyone in the party if the fighters die. The main problem I'm thinking is they are just entirely too powerful, so anything of their appropriate challenge rating just can't compete. First off, are all your challenges combat challenges? Because you can easily spice up the game by forcing the characters to make decisions in other contexts. Maybe there's something that they need to steal instead of fighting their way to, or they encounter a more powerful enemy who is only willing to negotiate with them. Sometimes they might need two artifacts to resolve a problem, but there's only time to retrieve one. More importantly, you can take their actions during the noncombat encounters to provide them with advantages and disadvantages during combat to make it more varied. Let's say your party's going to fight a bunch of cultists in the near future. If they do some thorough research beforehand (which could be anything from reading a book to speaking to an NPC to a full on side quest) then you can give them some kind of bonus or ability that would make a normally insurmountable fight with the cultists into something that the PCs have a chance of winning. Conversely, if you're running an encounter with weaker enemies that the party can tear through, then maybe an NPC has given the cultists information that gives them the edge against the party. I've found that players really dislike it when you arbitrarily introduce these kinds of things, but when the players can trace them back to decisions that they themselves made, they're actually entertained by it. Secondly, you can play at changing up the terrain to make what would normally be an even fight into one where one side has the advantage. Chasms and impassable terrain can make ranged attackers difficult to reach, difficult terrain can give melee attacks who can shift or teleport a huge advantage, and using enemies that can stealth or go invisible can help capitalize on any gaps in the defense of the party. Using combat tactics in unexpected ways is a good way to shake up a boring encounter, but it's even better if you can recognize your own tendencies and consciously avoid them. Play around with unusual configurations of attackers, with varied types of terrain, with magical effects and natural disturbances on the battlefield, and with the abilities of your foes. Finally, you could also consider wrapping up the loose plotlines and finishing the campaign. Maybe your players are just getting bored in these roles and they'd enjoy the chance to inhabit new characters with new motivations and new abilities?
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Nov 9, 2011 19:08
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Currently I'm running them through an underground volcanic lava tube system near their established residence, I'm figuring once out of the tube, and the anti-paladin obtains his Sword, that hold the soul of the first paladin he's ever killed that's been Forced back into life and will have a dicey time of using the helm of opposite alignment put on them repeatedly until it suits their needs, then their soul stuffed into the sword. Once that's done I plan to put the game on hold to possibly resume it after holidays. But I think some undead bane weapons might be in order.
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Nov 9, 2011 19:14
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:
I like a lot of this advice, but I would expand it using the principle of letting the players have fun. That fight with the mugger might not be Important, and your players might not want to make it Important by taking an interest in the poor wretch and trying to help him out/make him an ally. But there's another reason not to skip the fight - if your players don't want to. For some players, a big part of the fun in rolling the dice and smiting the opposition, even if it isn't the final climactic battle. They like the action scenes, getting to swing their sword or shoot the guns or whatever. For a group like that, even "unimportant" fights need to be there because that's part of what brings them to the table. For groups who don't care as much then just cutting to the mugger in a pool of blood and his own teeth is fine. Obviously could have some of each and have to balance things too.
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Nov 9, 2011 19:25
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Worlds Smuggest posted:This game has been fun for all concerned until recently, where most challenges for them have been extreme in either direction, too easy or kill everyone in the party if the fighters die. The main problem I'm thinking is they are just entirely too powerful, so anything of their appropriate challenge rating just can't compete. I don't think there's anything you can do to save that campaign, bud. Pathfinder is notorious for power imbalances and being hyper-swingy. It sounds like you're using a bunch of different splatbooks for characters too, which is going to throw things even further out of wack. Wrap it up and find a different system that can handle a kitchen sink party in both a narratively and mechanically satisfying way. I think the Dresden Files RPG might be right up your alley.
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Nov 9, 2011 19:27
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I'm having a slight DnD 4E problem, namely that my party are very very good players! They have a dedicated healing Artificer, a stealthy ranged Ranger, a Dwarf Barbarian (not exactly optimised I know), a Tank Paladin and a Controller-y Monk. I literally can't kill them. The Artificer throws out so much THP its hard to even damage them! Currently they're halfway through an encounter which I'm trying to force them to run from but they're standing their ground and winning, even though its supposed to be "too hard". Any tips and tricks? I've managed to get them on the ropes with multiple Dominations and a chain stun of the healer, but I can't just do that as otherwise he can't do anything which is a massive dick move on my part, as he's here to play DnD.
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Nov 10, 2011 10:33
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Throw more monsters at them! Double the number of standard monsters! Add another handful of minions each round, and tell them that a larger hoard is approaching! Also, use forced movement, hazards, and zones to make them feel like they're not in control of the battlefield (and move them out of range of the healer, or make the healer pick which half of the party to stick with), and use ongoing damage to sap their temporary hit points. This might also require having a chat with them about how some combats are intended to be fled from, rather than fought to the bitter end. UrbanLabyrinth fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Nov 10, 2011 |
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Nov 10, 2011 10:45
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Uplevel things. If they're good, they can handle everything they meet being 1-4 levels higher than them (and most things lower level than them won't pose much of a threat at all, anyway, due to how accuracy and defenses work). Throw in a big bulky elite, either to draw fire or to smash flat opportune targets. Throw in two for extra fun. Or three (but be careful, multi-elite fights can be quite lethal compared to some solos or groups of standards of the same XP value). Aggressively violate marks if you have a chance of scoring a hit on a squishier target. And, well, sometimes they'll prevail against all odds anyway. Sometimes they'll kill that level+7 solo. Sometimes they'll fight the horde, and win. And sometimes you just gotta ride with that.
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Nov 10, 2011 11:06
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True. I think I know how I'll play this one then, how would you feel as a player if I did the following: They're in the City of Dis, Second Level of Hell. They illegally entered it in a flashy manner involving explosions and killing a Balor using a factory, and are on the run. A police force known as the Timekeepers (adaptation and alteration of some 3.5ed fluff about a 4th Level internal police force) have caught up with them outside a (fake and illusionary, but thats a different matter) hotel. They're fighting some zombie minions, a head honcho and some archers on the street outside, which is littered with barricades. If I made the main guy retreat and then lead them into a second, harder, ambush, would that be too forced? They're getting mildly tired of not having had a rest for a while, but I've pointed out that 1) This is Hell. 2) They're being incredibly bad at finding out any information about where they're going, what they're doing, etc. Only the Ranger/Rogue hybrid is good at this, and she's often ignored by the Paladin. "Harder" encounter I'm thinking of having a Maguffin involving a terrain shaper splitting the road in half or whatever, make it more interesting. If they lose they just wake up in Mentiri, the Dis version of the Bastille. And then get tortured.
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Nov 10, 2011 11:16
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Lord Twisted posted:I literally can't kill them. The Artificer throws out so much THP its hard to even damage them! You're probably playing this right but we didn't in my first campaign so just to make sure... Temporary hit points don't stack. If someone is throwing out 5thp, no one can go above 5tph no matter how many times it's granted. Unless, for instance, someone else can grant 7thp, in which case it would override the 5 and the most anyone could have is 7thp. Not playing by those rules made things... easy.
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Nov 10, 2011 15:17
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fosborb posted:You're probably playing this right but we didn't in my first campaign so just to make sure... Question on this! The text from the Player's Handbook page 294 says "Don’t Add Together: If you get temporary hit points from different sources, use the higher value as your temporary hit point total instead of adding the values together." A warlock with the Infernal Pact gains temporary hit points as a function of the pact boon. PHB page 131 says "When an enemy under your Warlock’s Curse is reduced to 0 hit points or fewer, you immediately gain temporary hit points equal to your level." Does the pact boon in general count as a single source for temporary hit points or does each enemy count as a different source? In other words if a level three warlock kills three minions does he get 9 THP or a maximum of 3?
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Nov 10, 2011 16:05
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My interpretation would be max 3 but someone else chime in because I get a bit fuzzy around this area honestly and I don't have a rulebook or errata handy.
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Nov 10, 2011 16:19
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For THP it doesn't matter what the source is, they don't normally stack. If something grants 3 THP, that's the highest it will go using that power. If another power/feat/whatever grants 5 THP, then that's the new maximum, not 8. There are a few exceptions where THP can be added directly, but unless it says it explicitly somewhere I would assume they do not. In the case of the warlock, he'd get 3 THP each time a cursed enemy is brought to 0, but if he already has 3 (or more!) then nothing happens.
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Nov 10, 2011 16:24
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Yeah, I would rule that as you get three instances of three THP, so you just end up with three THP total. The wording would have to be something like "For each enemy you reduce to 0 HP or less with an attack, gain temporary hit points equal to your level." to get stacking per kill.
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Nov 10, 2011 16:25
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csammis posted:Does the pact boon in general count as a single source for temporary hit points or does each enemy count as a different source? In other words if a level three warlock kills three minions does he get 9 THP or a maximum of 3? He gets 3 temporary hitpoints 3 times, and they don't stack as per the rules. So he has 3 hitpoints.
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Nov 10, 2011 16:33
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How would you solve a situation where the PC's want to break someones arm for example, or if a NPC wants to do something similar? Skill challenge? Attack roll? Str vs Str and Con check? 3 consecutive successes and you break the arm, 1 failure and you only bruise him (x dmg)?
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Nov 10, 2011 16:58
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Affi posted:How would you solve a situation where the PC's want to break someones arm for example, or if a NPC wants to do something similar? Skill challenge? Attack roll? What system are you using?
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Nov 10, 2011 17:25
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Affi posted:How would you solve a situation where the PC's want to break someones arm for example, or if a NPC wants to do something similar? Skill challenge? Attack roll? I'd have him do an attack roll, and if it didn't suck, congratulations, he broke the arm. This doesn't seem worth investing a lot of rules and effort into; either he does it or he screws up, move on from there.
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Nov 10, 2011 17:29
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Regarding arm breaking: generally you shouldn't allow this unless it's as a narrative convenience. Breaking an arm is really cool when Tony Jaa does it in a movie but in a mechanical sense it's either going to be too difficult (so no one does it) or too easy (so they are always doing it). Also, expect lots of "fun" player suggestions after an NPC's arm actually gets broken. "Oh he should get a -2 to attack rolls, he's in a lot of pain because his arm is broken. Oh he should get -3 damage, he can't counterbalance the swing with his broken arm properly. Oh he should tell us whatever he knows, or I punch him in the broken arm."
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Nov 10, 2011 17:35
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Yeah, I wouldn't recommend letting PCs try it against someone who can actually fight back, because you're kind of bypassing the hit point system by arbitrarily inflicting crippling injuries. If the target can't fight back in any meaningful way, though, just make it an attack roll, or maybe one roll to grab them and a second one to break the arm if they're actively trying to run away and it's in the middle of a fight or something.
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Nov 10, 2011 17:40
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Out of combat? They've got the guy pinned down, i.e. helpless? Unarmed melee attack coup de grace, or weapon attack is appropriate too, if they hit then sure his arm's broken or whatever. Yes this has the potential to outright kill a guy depending on how much they already beat him up, that's my intention because I like when players can't do that sort of thing indiscriminately. In combat? Ask if the character has a power that gives something like -2 to attacks or defenses until the end of the encounter or whatever effect you think is appropriate. If they do, have them use that. If they don't, spontaneously I'd say have them make a grab attempt, if the enemy's still grabbed next turn, they can attempt an unarmed or weapon melee attack to break it, dealing damage and applying whatever penalty you think is appropriate. Again, the higher chance of failure/action cost is supposed to be a deterrent against getting a free additional encounter power from description. Important: tell your player the penalty you're going to apply before he commits to the idea, and don't budge when he tries the "but he should also get" thing. Mechanics cause description, description doesn't cause mechanics. Also keep the penalty somewhat in line with what they can regularly cause. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Nov 10, 2011 |
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Nov 10, 2011 17:53
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Affi posted:How would you solve a situation where the PC's want to break someones arm for example, or if a NPC wants to do something similar? Skill challenge? Attack roll? When he hits 0 HP, instead of dying his arm is broken and he gives up.
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Nov 10, 2011 19:44
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poo poo forget everything I said, that's the way to go.
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Nov 10, 2011 19:55
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I got so sick of crunchy cumbersome D&D style combat that could take an hour to resolve at times. Even a good fight would end up slightly boring and just seem to take too long. So we've gone to a more narrative based system. Rounds are simultaneous. Everyone states their goal for the round, as do the bad guys. I roll a d6 for everyone and add in their related skill. If their number is higher than their opponents, they win and accomplish their goal to a degree related to the gap between their and their opponents rolls. So if a guy just says "This round I want to focus on that axe bear and try to quickly kill it" him and the axe bear roll, add bonuses and compare. Even or close to even results: "You charge and attack the axebear with your sword but it blocks with its bear axe. You two are locked in a pitched fight with no one having the upper hand or paw!" Player comes out a little on top: "you and the axe bear trade blows, parrying and dodging in a brutal melee of fur and steel. You get in a few good slices on the bears arms but the fight will continue next round" (I then give the axe bear a penalty next round for being injured) Player wins large difference "You leap at the axe bear, you are too fast for it and plunge your sword deep into its neck before it can raise its heavy axe to defend its self. The axe bear is dead!" Combat goes way faster now, and the players seem a bit more engaged and not as quickly bored. It's also very very scaleable and handy in huge fights. Certainly not for everyone though. There's a certain fun with playing with very set and quantified mechanics. Some people play just for the mechanics, some people play just for the story and role playing, most somewhere in the middle. It's good to find out whee on that axis your players are.
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Nov 10, 2011 21:22
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Baronjutter posted:I got so sick of crunchy cumbersome D&D style combat that could take an hour to resolve at times. Even a good fight would end up slightly boring and just seem to take too long. So we've gone to a more narrative based system. How do you calculate skill scores, and what does your list of skills look like? I'm curious because D&D skill ratings tend to assume you're adding a d20 - rolling a d6 instead doesn't give enough variance to account for the difference between skill ratings. If you just took an arbitrary 4e character for instance, half his skills would be so low that even rolling a 6 wouldn't put the result over his higher skills (so against any given enemy the player would know that either his better skills will be auto-wins or his lower skills will be auto-fails.) So what sort of system are you using in the background? How does character advancement work? I'm curious because the system sounds cool, but if you haven't put thought into those parts then I know it's not going to work for me - and if you have put thought into them, then I'd like to hear more.
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Nov 11, 2011 06:55
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Baronjutter posted:I got so sick of crunchy cumbersome D&D style combat that could take an hour to resolve at times. Even a good fight would end up slightly boring and just seem to take too long. So we've gone to a more narrative based system. You should really check out a FATE based system.
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Nov 11, 2011 07:02
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Or, indeed, almost anything that isn't D&D.
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Nov 11, 2011 08:08
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Yeah that sounds like you could be having a lot of fun with PDQ# since that's D6 based iirc. And allows for a lot of narrative freedom!
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Nov 11, 2011 09:48
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Fiddler's Three, Spigs, Epicurius and Barrack HUSSEIN - Don't read this! So I'm running a game over in the play by post section - Savage Worlds where each of the players controls a wee goblin trying to find their way back home after a magical mishap. The goblins are currently trying to obtain The Heart of Darkness - a PLOT ITEM that lets them DO THING. The whole quest-chain is based on Apocalypse Now. The Heart of Darkness is currently in the possession of another goblin who, due to immense charisma, has been welcomed as leader of a tribe of forest trolls. I gave the players a few side-quests to do on the way - mostly to play with some of their character plot-hooks, but rather than react to these in a self contained fashion, they have embraced them as part of the larger story. One quest involved taking stones from self-proclaimed King of The Ogres, but rather than killing him, they have convinced him to wait for them at the Troll HQ and assist in obtaining The Heart. They are currently helping out a local minor forest god, and I think they will ask them for help too. My question is this: What is the best way to handle this assistance from outside? On the one hand - I want their choices to reap rewards. I want the ogre and the god to give some serious assistance because I like that they have asked for help, and I feel they would enjoy this paying off. On the other hand I feel like whatever I give the ogre and god to deal with - the players will be like "aaaaw! A dragon! That's aweomse! Why aren't we fighting that?" or whatever. There is the obvious answer of just having the ogre and the god clearing legions of fodder to leave the path clear to cool boss fights for the players...but that still feels a bit like letting NPCs do all the work... Help me TG! I want to eat my cake and have it too! Any ideas?
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Nov 11, 2011 15:45
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Am I supposed to spoiler my reply? Whatever. The main idea is to have them help in ways that aren't just beating up poo poo. What else are they good at? The Ogre is more of an issue than the God. An Ogre can lift heavy things, break down walls and buildings, or any other feats of strength that might be necessary in the plan. He can also kill anyone who gets in his way, but the key is to give him something important enough to do that it doesn't make sense for him to come along with the PCs and overshadow them in combat. A God, on the other hand, would tend to act in more subtle ways - giving the players a bonus to their actions while in the forest (maybe give them an extra d6 to represent the God's assistance - that way they'll mostly get by on their own talents but when they roll badly on their usual dice the "god die" can back them up), obstructing enemies who find that when trying to fight the PCs they keep tripping over tree roots and getting caught on branches, guiding the PCs a secret location in the forest that will help them in some way.
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Nov 11, 2011 16:40
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So I recently came up with a campaign idea for a generic/universal system (I had GURPS in mind at first, but more later on that). Basically, the gist is, they're in Fantasy Not-Europe, but with three major differences from the norm: one, there's no magic. Two, there's elves and dwarves, but they're a small minority and considered mutants and the spawn of evil by the majority of humans. Three, while the general tech level is low (medieval with minor clockpunk elements), there's small caches of modern/futuristic tech left lying around in ruins or caves by a precursor race. However, very few people know how to repair the out-of-place tech, even though using it is simple enough; this leads to, for example, snake cults that do ritual sacrifices by firing squad with skull-adorned AK-47s, but charge into battle with spears and swords. From there, I managed to come up with three plot hooks for the campaign. First off, I'd have the PCs hear news of a tribe of goblins that had managed to reverse-engineer firearms and modern weaponry, and were selling their crude, primitive things (think the weird weapons Chechen rebels used) to other unsavory elements. Then, assuming they decide to pursue that, I'd have them try to uncover evidence as to where the tribe was located, if I decide to have the rumor of it being goblins be accurate at all. For the most part, this plot hook would be fairly combat-light and kind of noir-ish, except for the whole "kill the arms dealers once you find them" thing. Second off, I'd have them investigate a tip that an old abandoned mine contained treasure. What they would actually find is a cult, perhaps led by or simply containing the person who tipped them off, centered around worshipping some very large and broken down piece of kit like a sci-fi tank or a giant mecha. They'd kill or otherwise disperse the cult and go on a quest to find spare parts and someone with the knowhow to graft them on. Third, now that they have something very big that puts them at a huge advantage against anything in the area, I'd have them be... visited by the alien race that left the tech there in the first place (humans from our universe, perhaps). And by "visited" I mean they'd be attacked with the intent of taking them as slaves; the PCs could either join a guerrilla movement fighting the aliens, using their giant vehicle to their advantage, join the aliens and go offworld, or simply run like gently caress and try not to die. What system would probably do the best for this? GURPS is alright, but it's a little overwhelming and hex maps are balls hard to find. FATE seems like it'd work really well, honestly, but it might be a bit too rules-light.
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Nov 11, 2011 22:54
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WickedIcon posted:What system would probably do the best for this? The generic system which you and your friends most enjoy playing. Any system works for any setting. If you'd like to narrow it down, tell us about how you want the game to be.
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Nov 12, 2011 02:41
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The concept just screams Savage Worlds to me, if only because it sounds like something you'd read over 8 installments in a pulp rag.
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Nov 12, 2011 03:20
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Mr. Maltose posted:The concept just screams Savage Worlds to me, if only because it sounds like something you'd read over 8 installments in a pulp rag. Looked up Savage Worlds and it sounds great. It seems way less crunchy than GURPS (always a very, very good thing), but just a bit more crunchy than FATE. Also, setting isn't completely independent of system. There are systems out there that are relatively generic, but designed to accommodate a certain feel or general setting; Savage Worlds and pulp, or Spirit of the Century and costumed adventurers, for instance. That's more what I meant; the GURPS and FATE bits were just there to give an idea of how I wanted the game to actually play (crunchy enough that we're not just making stuff up as we go along, but not GURPS crunchy). SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 04:39
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WickedIcon posted:What system would probably do the best for this? GURPS is alright, but it's a little overwhelming and hex maps are balls hard to find. FATE seems like it'd work really well, honestly, but it might be a bit too rules-light. Why do you think you need hex maps for GURPS? It's fine if you're doing tactical map poo poo, but it's not necessary at all.
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Nov 12, 2011 05:30
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The impression I get is that Legends of Anglerre has as many if not more rules than GURPS (which is not necessarily a bad thing). Or you could just play GURPS lite? I don't know, all these games look alike to me, I guess I don't have much help to give on the subject.
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Nov 12, 2011 21:00
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I'm a first-time DM running Pathfinder for some MMO friends. Since we're all pretty new to pen and paper games, it's mostly hack'n'slash. While everyone's having fun, I've made some stupid mistakes and there are some things I'm not sure how to deal with. The wizard (an evoker  ) only prepares direct damage spells. He uses all his highest level spells on the first monsters the party encounters, and then plinks away at the bosses with force missiles. Also, he's been complaining that his AC is too low compared to the rest of the party. I asked him why he doesn't use scrolls of mage armor - I've given him a bunch! Apparently it'd be a waste since the scrolls "only" last for an hour.The rogue has ridiculously high acrobatics and could probably tumble past anyone's CMD to flank and get sneak attacks, but insists on sneaking up on enemies in the middle of combat. He sneaks up on enemies by running behind a tree (we use maptool), rolling for stealth and then walking right back out thinking stealth works like in Neverwinter Nights. I gave him an amulet that lets him turn invisible for one round twice per day to get him to stop doing this, but he never uses it in case he needs it later. This fear of wasting resources kind of runs through the entire party - they've all got a bunch of potions and the paladin has a wand of cure light wounds, but they almost never use any of them in case they'd be wasted. In the first somewhat-lengthy dungeon they went through, they spent all their resources fighting a sealed chamber full of ghouls and then a group of gnolls and their leader. With the wizard having something like 3 hp and everyone else around half their max, they pressed on to fight the actual boss, a sea hag who'd been abducting villagers to eat or whatever. I had planned for the sea hag to ride a giant lobster and call for help from another group of gnolls. I didn't want to get a TPK so early in the campaign, so I turned the sea hag into a joke boss, whose harmless lobster only swam around as she threw sea urchins at the party chasing her in a rowboat. In the end the fighter died, but everyone else made it. Should I have let them get the entire party killed? I'm not sure if I should try to adapt to their unwillingness to use consumables or not, but I just can't seem to change their minds about it. I've directly told them after a session that they should use their items, and while they all agreed that they should they still don't.
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Nov 14, 2011 02:59
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Nanja Monja posted:I'm a first-time DM running Pathfinder for some MMO friends. Since we're all pretty new to pen and paper games, it's mostly hack'n'slash. While everyone's having fun, I've made some stupid mistakes and there are some things I'm not sure how to deal with. You did the right thing making sure the party didn't wipe, since you're all new and don't want to turn anyone off. I understand completely the mindset of the packrat player, so here's my advice. Give them a wand or something that has a set number of heals per day, so that they don't have to feel like they're wasting an item. Make it something that would be ridiculous for a normal group: like 10 charges or something. They won't use them all, but maybe they would try using one or two of them and go from there. For the evoker, maybe have the party fight a single mage as a throwaway encounter. Have the mage cast some spell that locks down the party for a while: sleep, web, etc. It shouldn't kill anyone, but hopefully it will show your mage the usefulness of spells other than straight damage. It sounds like you tried the right tack with the rogue. Again, the only tactic that might work is upping the number of charges. I'm sure they're all still in the mindset of an MMO, where consuming healing items is a direct consumption of money and resources. Given that mindset, the best you can do is make healing items plentiful and cheap, and keep talking to them. Another thing you can try is making them go through the pain in the rear end process of raising their fighter. Make them go pay out the rear end for the priest to raise him, or maybe he has a quest they have to do first. Make them not want to die again.
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Nov 14, 2011 09:40
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Cantorsdust posted:Another thing you can try is making them go through the pain in the rear end process of raising their fighter. Make them go pay out the rear end for the priest to raise him, or maybe he has a quest they have to do first. Make them not want to die again. Yeah, a TPK is a huge mood-kill for most groups, but a single death can often be highly memorable and motivating in the long run. My group (or at least the majority of them) used to think that I wouldn't let them die in combat, a notion I quickly disabused them of. The actual death was shocking for them, and really forced them to re-evaluate their strategies during combat. Most importantly, though, they still talk about that death, both as a motivating factor in their decisions (like scouting the land, amassing consumables, gaining intel from various sources, etc.) and as one of the defining moments in the campaign. (In their words, it's when "poo poo got real, yo."). So sometimes a death can serve a really valuable function, especially with players who don't seem terribly worried about it. I would never overdo it (none of the players have died since, though not from any lack of effort on my part) but like Cantorsdust said, you can make them realize that using their items is preferable to having one of them kick the bucket.
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Nov 14, 2011 15:05
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