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Bobulus posted:Now, whether Lord English is Already Here or not? We don't know that yet. What if Jake has some connection to the Batter Baroness' empire? That would make him... Lord English! 
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Nov 13, 2011 08:47
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JT Jag posted:I couldn't help myself. I literally had to stare at that for half a minute before I realized what you even changed. The  is just in the blood I guess.
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Nov 13, 2011 08:58
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Have we actually heard from someone who knows what they're talking about that you need Heroes of Time and Space? Its all just conjecture from the kids/trolls right? As long as you have a beat mesa/Forge you should be fine right? Is there anything to say that only Time and Space get those? We only have two examples out of theoretically infinite previous sessions.
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Nov 13, 2011 09:03
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Strongylocentrotus posted:Thinking the same thing, they'll have U instead of T to make it an RNA reference this time around. Or the chumhandle abbreviations will be three letters long, i.e. they'll be codons.
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Nov 13, 2011 09:04
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KoB posted:Have we actually heard from someone who knows what they're talking about that you need Heroes of Time and Space? Its all just conjecture from the kids/trolls right? As long as you have a beat mesa/Forge you should be fine right? Is there anything to say that only Time and Space get those? We only have two examples out of theoretically infinite previous sessions. I don't think there's anything really suggesting that the Beat Mesa has to be on the Time hero's planet, but as far as we know, it is the Space hero's job to create the frog that will become the new universe. It may not necessarily require the time/space players to exist, but it is sensible (as far as conjecture goes.)
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Nov 13, 2011 09:06
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I would be amazing if this Dad manages to nonverbally embarrass John just as well as if he were John's own dad. Even better if he pulls it off on both Jane and John at the same time.
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Nov 13, 2011 09:16
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King of Solomon posted:I don't think there's anything really suggesting that the Beat Mesa has to be on the Time hero's planet, but as far as we know, it is the Space hero's job to create the frog that will become the new universe. No, I'm pretty sure that Doc Scratch explicitly stated that the Scratch Thing is always on the Hero of Time's planet. Somewhere in his conversation with Rose.
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Nov 13, 2011 09:16
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KoB posted:Have we actually heard from someone who knows what they're talking about that you need Heroes of Time and Space? Its all just conjecture from the kids/trolls right? As long as you have a beat mesa/Forge you should be fine right? Is there anything to say that only Time and Space get those? We only have two examples out of theoretically infinite previous sessions. IIRC Doc Scratch tells Rose that the Beat Mesa appears only in the Hero of Time's land. EDIT: quote:Yes. http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005528
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Nov 13, 2011 09:16
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For that matter, I still think that Aradia's equivalent to the Beat Mesa was shown here
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Nov 13, 2011 09:41
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Bobulus posted:I think people are overthinking the whole scratch 'where did the various people come from' thing. Since the ectobiology process seems to always create two sets of people, I should think that if these new kids exist at all that should pretty much guarantee that the old kids exist in this new universe in some form. And while the original session had the kids create ectobiological clones of the guardians, the trolls, (presumably since Karkat doesn't beleive in ancestors) ecto-cloned themselves, and they were in a second session too. KoB posted:Have we actually heard from someone who knows what they're talking about that you need Heroes of Time and Space? Its all just conjecture from the kids/trolls right? As long as you have a beat mesa/Forge you should be fine right? Is there anything to say that only Time and Space get those? We only have two examples out of theoretically infinite previous sessions. Like was said above, space is needed to create the genesis frog and their planet contains the Forge and time is needed as their planet always contains the Reset button. You could argue, I guess, that each session needs a Knight too, since they both seemed to assist in the genesis frog's creation but that's probably a more tenuous connection. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 09:43
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Prison Warden posted:Since the ectobiology process seems to always create two sets of people, I should think that if these new kids exist at all that should pretty much guarantee that the old kids exist in this new universe in some form. And while the original session had the kids create ectobiological clones of the guardians, the trolls, (presumably since Karkat doesn't beleive in ancestors) ecto-cloned themselves, and they were in a second session too. How separate is Skaia from our Universe? If we assume theyre separate then the past timeline where John created the ectobabies still exists and the babies still teleport into the universe normally. Theyre simply appearing in a post-scratch universe this time and the Guardians-now-kids will enter their own incipisphere, where they wont create ecto-babies. John created them because it was inevitable. He existed, therefore he had to create them.
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Nov 13, 2011 09:56
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That's how I am reading things as well, but I think we won't really know until we get a better idea of how what the scratch actually does.
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Nov 13, 2011 10:34
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Calling it, new bro will be a huge anime nerd and has his hair like vegeta, just like on of his japanese animes!  Also, if sopor slime consumption turns trolls into stoners, then sopor slime = troll weed. These guys sleep on weed.
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Nov 13, 2011 11:06
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If Bro doesn't try to be this guy (except with different hair I guess) I will be very disappointed.
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Nov 13, 2011 11:12
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My guess is that alt-Bro grew up wearing Ben Stiller shades just like his guardian alt-Dave, until Jane gave him pointy anime shades for his 13th birthday...
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Nov 13, 2011 11:14
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Kid Bro's name will by Andy Hussman. That's really all you need to know.
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Nov 13, 2011 12:16
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I know nobody cares, and it was a pretty obvious conclusion, but god dammit I never get to do this, so - called it:Starmaker posted:The next page will be "Enter Name" Well, close enough. I'm actually pretty excited that all that heavy foreshadowing wasn't misleading. This seems like the perfect way to flesh out the guardian characters, as well as allow the story to revisit a lot of the story elements and mechanics from the first chapter that have been left aside lately. I'm also pretty happy that I was right about Dad - he is a universal constant. I'm still calling a Johnsprite though, because Jane's Grandpa is totally dead. I mean he has to be. Poor Scratch John  I wonder if Jake's guardian will be an omnipotent cat. VVVVVV It seems pretty obvious that the Scratch versions aren't paradox clones. And as we already know a universe where the players didn't make themselves is LE's calling card. So I guess he's already there and their universe is already doomed. Oh well! Starmaker fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 12:45
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KoB posted:How separate is Skaia from our Universe? If we assume theyre separate then the past timeline where John created the ectobabies still exists and the babies still teleport into the universe normally. Theyre simply appearing in a post-scratch universe this time and the Guardians-now-kids will enter their own incipisphere, where they wont create ecto-babies. John created them because it was inevitable. He existed, therefore he had to create them. I think Skaia is separate to some extent, but then again the whole POINT of the scratch is to reset the universe and enable another session to take place. And while our heroes have escaped their session, it seems like the session itself was undone. The Denizens wanted Jade to take them with her, for example and the previous Hivebent session Trolls dont seem to be chillin out in the outer ring or anything
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Nov 13, 2011 12:50
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rokkit posted:So, is Bro's 'bunny' going to be Cal, or a smuppet? Because neither of those are 'innocuous,' for sure... All we know about his bunny was that it was a bit disturbing and made from scratch.
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Nov 13, 2011 13:22
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Starmaker posted:VVVVVV Not sure there's an actual concrete correlation there, but I'm fairly sure that assuming that they are paradox clones is a safe bet, and the text about being related to DAD was just more dramatic irony. We may have a different ectobiologist (one of these four new kids -I'm guessing Jane if it mirrors things) using their guardians (our former kids) as the base to create all eight of them. And since it is ectobiology rather than biology working in the reverse of the session we know and love creates identical results anyway. Comic fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 13:35
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It's possible, but I figured since the only other scratch we knew of, the Troll one - which only had the ectobiology in one session, not both - that this would mirror that. Nothing's confirmed or anything, obviously, I just thought it was a pretty strong hint, that and the mention of LE's calling card. Or maybe we will get more babies. That's fun too
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Nov 13, 2011 13:44
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Starmaker posted:It's possible, but I figured since the only other scratch we knew of, the Troll one - which only had the ectobiology in one session, not both - that this would mirror that. Nothing's confirmed or anything, obviously, I just thought it was a pretty strong hint, that and the mention of LE's calling card. All sessions have ectobiology, it is what characterizes them as the players for the session are created through it. You've got some wires crossed somewhere I think. In the first troll session before the scratch there was ectobiology, with two sets of 12 trolls. Karkat and co were sent as ancestors and the ancestors were the kids (players). This didn't work well, so it was reset. In the one we're more familiar with, two sets of 12 trolls were created through ectobiology still, but the ancestors were sent first this time, while Karkat and co are the kids (players). [The confusing part here may be the bit about the Sufferer getting memories from the past session. He was still a new version of himself, not the old one however.] Same thing happened here - two sets of 4 kids per session, only the sets have been reversed after the reset.
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Nov 13, 2011 13:52
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DAAAAAAAAAD!!!  When I saw him I stuck my arms straight up and had a gigantic grin on my face for like a minute.
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Nov 13, 2011 14:04
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Comic posted:All sessions have ectobiology, it is what characterizes them as the players for the session are created through it. You've got some wires crossed somewhere I think. Doc Scratch posted:Though they could not recognize it for the bad omen it was, this session was not the one in which they had been spawned. Such is the symptom of a subtle glitch affecting certain sessions, an error designed to trigger an unfathomable cascade of misfortune throughout paradox space. This glitch is the calling card of the one I serve. It is the discreet, gentlemanly manner in which he reserves his place in a universe for later visitation. From here. I dunno, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like they didn't make themselves. I don't know where they came from, but I guess that's what makes it a glitch. My jump in reasoning is that the same thing will happen to the kids, only in reverse this time (so the second version has the glitch). It might not! But that bit about LE makes me think there's more to this than a simple throw-away line. Plus it would, you know, make LE an immediate and apparent threat to the kids, whereas right now they don't even know he exists.
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Nov 13, 2011 14:23
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Starmaker posted:From here. ...or there WILL be ectobiology, it will simply result in the creation of all 8 guardians between the 2 earth sessions.
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Nov 13, 2011 15:11
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Starmaker posted:From here. Hmm, I don't think I caught that. I still think my line of thinking is correct, but I believe you're right in that there is more here- in some way perhaps post-scratch universes are necessary for the creation of the initial universe they were reset from? Because we saw concretely that the guardians John made were sent back to their own timeline to become the guardians they were cloned from. The actual nature of this 'glitch' isn't really explained, though it would have to be a gitch as it's doubly paradoxial if you create yourself yet still not be the self you created.
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Nov 13, 2011 15:43
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So, assuming the original kids are present in this universe in some form, and that their roles are roughly the same as the guardians' in the past, then does that mean that Dad is John's son? Craaaaaazy.
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Nov 13, 2011 15:51
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Nate RFB posted:So, assuming the original kids are present in this universe in some form, and that their roles are roughly the same as the guardians' in the past, then does that mean that Dad is John's son? Craaaaaazy. Please, I don't even want to think about Dad coming out of John's wife's personal torso.
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Nov 13, 2011 15:57
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Comic posted:Hmm, I don't think I caught that. I still think my line of thinking is correct, but I believe you're right in that there is more here- in some way perhaps post-scratch universes are necessary for the creation of the initial universe they were reset from? Because we saw concretely that the guardians John made were sent back to their own timeline to become the guardians they were cloned from. Personally I'm saying that the glitch is affecting things so that there is some sort of travel/communication between the pre- and post-Scratch sessions. For the Trolls it was that the original players were spawned in the post-Scratch session, and for the Kids it was the Liv Tyler bunny (created by Jake in the post-Scratch and sent to the pre-Scratch). If there is something from the post-Scratch in the pre-Scratch, then that assures that a Scratch must occur right? Gotta complete those timeloops. Paradox space, once it has an end goal (a Scratch) takes care of the rest by setting any events that lead up to it as the alpha timeline.
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Nov 13, 2011 15:58
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Seeing LE's influence on the universe through the names is disturbing, but I think it'll all work out in the end. We do have John and Jade coming through this time (a characteristic I doubt other scratched sessions did), and given that Jade has Hero of Space+God Tier+First Guardian powers I honestly don't think the current earth's first guardian, should they be LE's agent, is going to be much of a deal. Perhaps after John and Jade gather the Ancestor Kids they could have preScratch memories return like the Sufferer did. What I'm concerned about is, if I remember correctly, in the Act 6 flash intro I don't think we saw Lil Cal's face. I'm not sure if Cal is as much of a universal constant as he has appeared to be up to now.
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Nov 13, 2011 16:02
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Please clarify this for me, since this has been a question on my mind for a bit. During [s] Cascade, Rose and Dave took a trip into the troll session via the green sun, correct? Does that mean they're still there post-scratch, or are them and the trolls gone?
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Nov 13, 2011 16:08
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Mazerunner posted:For the Trolls it was that the original players were spawned in the post-Scratch session ...wait. I'd just been assuming that Karkat had been referring to 'the extra 12' trolls meaning their own ancestors, but maybe it was an extra 12 on TOP of the ancestors? If so then suddenly everything you said makes sense, as those 12 could be sent to the pre-scratch session and thus creates the inevitability of needing to be reset. Edit This is amazing I love realizing new things thank youuu Pastrymancy posted:Please clarify this for me, since this has been a question on my mind for a bit. During [s] Cascade, Rose and Dave took a trip into the troll session via the green sun, correct? Does that mean they're still there post-scratch, or are them and the trolls gone? Green Sun exists outside of sessions, in it's own area of existence with the horrorterrors. They still exist there with Aradia and Sollux and the trolls and aren't assumed to be in the reset session at all, but could easily be (with all the surviving trolls) if only due to having a god tier of time with them. Comic fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 16:10
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Pastrymancy posted:Please clarify this for me, since this has been a question on my mind for a bit. During [s] Cascade, Rose and Dave took a trip into the troll session via the green sun, correct? Does that mean they're still there post-scratch, or are them and the trolls gone? The area beyond the furthest ring is kind of a multiversal common ground -- all universes share that same space between universes. Dave and Rose took the tumor there and created the green sun, then emerged from it. The trolls traveled there on their asteroid via Sollux. They're together, but not in the troll session.
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Nov 13, 2011 16:12
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Now that Dad is confirmed, isn't he now Dad Crocker rather than Dad Egbert? If scratch John was his father, he's have been John Crocker, adopted child of Sassacre and The Batterwitch. I don't think even a different version of John would have been able to put up with that, so maybe something different happened this time.
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Nov 13, 2011 16:15
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I know this was talked about briefly before, but for some reason the forums search isn't really bringing up the relavant pages from this thread. I can't seem to get get the "right" look of the text just right (observed here: http://mspaintadventures.com/scraps2/mspafont.gif). Whether I turn ClearType on or off, the m's especially still look like a solid black block. It never bothered me before, but of course now that Hussie has pointed it out it does. What's strange is that turning ClearType on/off appears to make no impact on MSPA's font at all, at least not the font used in-comic (for example the archive logs do change when turning it on/off).
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Nov 13, 2011 16:26
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Comic posted:...wait. I'd just been assuming that Karkat had been referring to 'the extra 12' trolls meaning their own ancestors, but maybe it was an extra 12 on TOP of the ancestors? If so then suddenly everything you said makes sense, as those 12 could be sent to the pre-scratch session and thus creates the inevitability of needing to be reset. Edit This is amazing I love realizing new things thank youuu You're welcome! But I don't think you need an extra 12 Trolls. This is weird time bullshit remember? It's just that Karkat makes 24 Trolls (12 the group we know, 12 the 'ancestor' group) and they get sent off on the meteors to head through the portals to Alternia. Possibly thanks to the glitch, as they go through the meteors they are sent to both the pre- and post-Scratch Alternias. One groups becomes the ancestors in the pre- and the players in the post- and vice verse for the other group.
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Nov 13, 2011 16:28
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I can't believe nobody has brought up what is clearly the most important question of all: If Mom is now a kid, does that mean Dad Egbert is going to have an epic romance with . . . Rose? (John is gonna be so mad! Getting cockblocked by your own son/brother/dad/guardian, totally uncool.)
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Nov 13, 2011 17:10
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Nate RFB posted:I know this was talked about briefly before, but for some reason the forums search isn't really bringing up the relavant pages from this thread. I can't seem to get get the "right" look of the text just right (observed here: http://mspaintadventures.com/scraps2/mspafont.gif). Whether I turn ClearType on or off, the m's especially still look like a solid black block. It never bothered me before, but of course now that Hussie has pointed it out it does. What's strange is that turning ClearType on/off appears to make no impact on MSPA's font at all, at least not the font used in-comic (for example the archive logs do change when turning it on/off). Make sure your browser isn't overriding it somethow? Maybe it's enlarging (or shrinking) the text size which is messing with it.
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Nov 13, 2011 17:14
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Slime posted:Now that Dad is confirmed, isn't he now Dad Crocker rather than Dad Egbert? If scratch John was his father, he's have been John Crocker, adopted child of Sassacre and The Batterwitch. I don't think even a different version of John would have been able to put up with that, so maybe something different happened this time. I assume that Jane was Jane Crocker even in the pre-scratch session, but she married Grandpa Egbert and thus was Dad spawned. I dont even wanna THINK on the unlikeliness and possible creepy implications of the genetics required to have Dad be identical in both universes.
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Nov 13, 2011 18:01
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Prison Warden posted:I assume that Jane was Jane Crocker even in the pre-scratch session, but she married Grandpa Egbert and thus was Dad spawned. Maybe in the Most Shocking Twist Yet preScratch dad will be revealed to have been adopted.
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Nov 13, 2011 18:07
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