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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I don't know much about filipino hand to hand stuff, but I would assume that if you haven't seen it in MMA yet, it's probably less effective than boxing or whatever. Doesn't mean that it's bad or anything. It's probably because it's far less mainstream. I assume there's few FMA gyms focused on training for MMA competition, too. Look how long it took karate to get credibility in MMA.
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Nov 12, 2011 08:26
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Senor P, what would your strategy have been to defeat Ricco Rodriguez in that match? Let's say, in the interest of fairness, he's roughly 50cm taller than you, roughly 30kg heavier than you, he's a strong former UFC champion and you don't lift weights. He looks pretty barrel chested, so it's probably safe to assume that if you mounted him, your knees wouldn't touch the ground. Which submission would you go for and why? Which position? edit: I'm not saying Marcelo is above making mistakes. I'm saying, I can't comprehend any better way to deal with that opponent. In that Yoshida video, you can see his mistake: instead of putting his arm down, he should've allowed himself to fall. Instead of going for the back choke, Marcelo should have ______? 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 08:53
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Yuns posted:From archives: Ahaha, oh dear, that was an embarrassing read. Thanks for linking it, though, I've looked for it before! I should have celebrated my anniversary by asking for a rematch with my ninja friend.
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Nov 12, 2011 11:50
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Halloween Jack posted:Filipino martial arts get a lot of respect from the combat sports community for its aliveness and realism in weapons training, yet I don't see anyone implementing Filipino empty-hands stuff into MMA or kickboxing. Why is that? Marc Denny and the Dog Brothers have done a fair bit of work on this, look up "Kali Tudo". Not sure what sort of success rate they've had with it, though.
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Nov 12, 2011 13:22
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TheVigilante posted:Marc Denny and the Dog Brothers have done a fair bit of work on this, look up "Kali Tudo". Not sure what sort of success rate they've had with it, though. I would say Kali Tudo is more about incorporating other rulesets and arts into FMA, as opposed to having a subset of techniques that could be used for MMA. Also, it doesn't seem like the Dog Brothers have expanded the scope of their training or affiliations much.
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Nov 12, 2011 14:45
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I'm pretty sure that Yoshida move isn't a mistake, given that high level judoka constantly break or hyperextend their elbows while trying to prevent the ippon. It's a calculated risk that everyone is aware of.
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Nov 12, 2011 17:24
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I met a lazy man today - but he was not lazy, only thought himself as such. I proclaimed "do 20 of these" to which he responded "No". I asked why. He could not find a particular reason so I told him to attempt even one which would be perfectly laudable, and he did that, and then did all the rest. Sometimes even the tiniest bit of encouragement goes a long, long way. edit: kimbo305 posted:I would say Kali Tudo is more about incorporating other rulesets and arts into FMA, as opposed to having a subset of techniques that could be used for MMA. I'm pretty sure that in one of their videos Denny or someone was talking about how FMA would be in the near future be incorporated or make in impact in the the MMA circle, that is to say, that their particular art would "break through" in the free fighting rings once understood as useful as it supposedly is. Has not happened this far though. I don't think that's a surprise: it's so survival mode I do not think it would translate very well into a prize ring, not that I know anything much about such things. Ligur fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 17:36
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Ligur posted:I met a lazy man today - but he was not lazy, only thought himself as such. I proclaimed "do 20 of these" to which he responded "No". I asked why. He could not find a particular reason so I told him to attempt even one which would be perfectly laudable, and he did that, and then did all the rest. hahah that is pretty lazy
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Nov 12, 2011 17:43
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mewse posted:hahah that is pretty lazy Come on, this person underestimated himself, isn't funny. He really thought he couldn't, or did not want, to do X or Y. In fact that was his modus operandi - "I am too out of shape and weight too much to do these things" yet I am here, and then managed everything quite well and, at least I think, had fun. Edit: if anyone has clues, apart from feeding cake or ribs with a chili sauce, on how to make a person who dislikes physical exertion to do a variation of crunches (never mind burpees) I would welcome the exchange of this information. Right now I'm thinking pints of beer but according the the British Medical Journal this will prove at least in length counter-productive, likewise with cigars. Ligur fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 17:53
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Ligur posted:I proclaimed "do 20 of these" to which he responded "No". this is the funny part, it's mostly how you wrote it
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Nov 12, 2011 18:00
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I adore deadpan writing (or communication in any event) and wish to emulate such style when given chance.
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Nov 12, 2011 18:01
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Zeigeist / any other LB / N. OC peoples wanna join a chill BJJ class / open mat, here's the address and directions from the main road in an easy map: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5185027 Feel free to email me, sbellende at yahoo. 2:30-till whenever every saturday. Normal gi classes are Monday and Tuesday 7pm. You can pay 5bux for parking or you can street park on Bellflower / Atherton and walk the 5 minutes, which is what I do 'cause I'm broke. Wooooo open maturday is my favorite day. Ligur posted:Edit: if anyone has clues, apart from feeding cake or ribs with a chili sauce, on how to make a person who dislikes physical exertion to do a variation of crunches (never mind burpees) I would welcome the exchange of this information. Right now I'm thinking pints of beer but according the the British Medical Journal this will prove at least in length counter-productive, likewise with cigars. I think you already hit upon the answer - you made him reflect on why he gave you an excuse and then he found the motivation inside himself (the only place it can really come from I'd say) to just shut the gently caress up and do it. You can yell and coerce and berate and whatever until you're Leben red but he's gotta make that decision, the best thing you can do is encourage and prompt his own thoughts to go down that road. Good luck with that, depressed mopers are annoying as hell. r.y.f.s.o. fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 18:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Filipino martial arts get a lot of respect from the combat sports community for its aliveness and realism in weapons training, yet I don't see anyone implementing Filipino empty-hands stuff into MMA or kickboxing. Why is that? Pretty much what kimbo305 and 02-6611-0142-1 said. But most of all, FMA has always been a weapons based system first and empty hand second. The empty hand stuff is known as panantukan. Historically, it's based off the knife work (quick jabs, a lot of evasive footwork, and a high guard to PROTECT YO NECK). When the Philippines was colonized by the US after the Spanish-American War, western boxing began integrating into FMA via US servicemen. This is the lineage that is dominant in North America today (thanks to Inosanto and co), although some lineages of FMA integrated karate into panantukan (that are more popular within the Philippines). The grappling portion of FMA is called dumog. The history is not as well documented, but it has roots to around the same time Muslims began settling on the islands. My instructor is convinced that modern dumog is mostly made up or taken from other arts. There are a lot better grappling systems out there, imo. edit: just to add more, as someone who took up boxing about 6 months ago - the science of boxing is phenomenally more deeper than FMA. That is, the mechanics of learning how to throw a proper jab, cross, hook and uppercut in boxing is a lot more in depth than what I learned in FMA. My FMA experience is mostly weapons based though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Ligur posted:I'm pretty sure that in one of their videos Denny or someone was talking about how FMA would be in the near future be incorporated or make in impact in the the MMA circle, that is to say, that their particular art would "break through" in the free fighting rings once understood as useful as it supposedly is. Has not happened this far though. I don't think that's a surprise: it's so survival mode I do not think it would translate very well into a prize ring, not that I know anything much about such things. I'm trying to find the book on amazon, it was pre-2004...I'll try find the link and post it later. e: VVVV my bad, it was Arthur Davie! VVVV Bangkero fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 19:28
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Meat Effete posted:I'm pretty sure that Yoshida move isn't a mistake, given that high level judoka constantly break or hyperextend their elbows while trying to prevent the ippon. It's a calculated risk that everyone is aware of. That's even something I tell my students: Don't post your arm... unless you're in an Olympic medal match.
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Nov 12, 2011 21:10
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Bangkero posted:Really long time ago I was reading a book about the early history of UFC. When Dana White just took over the UFC he was going around looking for a stable of fighters that he could sign on. When the Dog Brothers demonstrated their weapons based sparring to him, he turned them down due to it being too extreme at the time for mainstream viewers. I think I remember this story as well it's AFAIK not simple legend but true, people beating each other bloody with sticks being too horrible to show on television (while it's ok to have to 170lbs fighters punch each other a bloody mess with glorified cycling gloves for protection though but whatever). From what I've seen on Dog Brothers, say, a BJJ artist fighting against someone with a stick and trained against resistance would not end well for the person without the stick. The Dog Brothers are awesome. And Die Less Often is scary.
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Nov 12, 2011 21:15
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Ligur posted:). From what I've seen on Dog Brothers, say, a BJJ artist fighting against someone with a stick and trained against resistance would not end well for the person without the stick. Often the DB fighters will be cross trained, so you'll see these crazy stick chokes from the fighters using sticks. Here's the letter: http://dogbrothers.com/?page_id=15
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Nov 12, 2011 22:08
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Instead of going for the back choke, Marcelo should have ______? Marcelo manages to pretty effectively attack/defend from a sitting position. Marcelo gets that low sitting/hanging from the back at 2:40 in the video. (Arms around his oppponents hips, legs in the back of his knees.) This effectively drives him to the ground. Then he proceeds to jump to the back, his opponent is now able to stand up. Marcelo then is just kind of chilling out, not really attacking. I don't see how he's going to get an RNC without getting his opponent to the ground. Unless he accepts the fact his opponent will try to slam him, then immediatley go for the RNC. (This happens but Marcelo does not scramble for the RNC, in fact he takes a breather.) If he wants to jump up to the back and drag the guy down, then the person needs to be off balance. If he's perched on the back and his opponent can stand straight up, then he is doing it wrong. Earlier in the video Marcelo sits down on the ground and pretty much forces the other guy to play his game. (Which works very well.) Personally I felt if he made more attempts to attack the ankle, particularly when he manages to get the single leg, this would have ended sooner. Back to your question, instead of going for the back choke, Marcelo should have continued with what worked in the beginning of the match. Fighting from a sitting position, getting the single leg, jumping low onto his back and dragging him down to the ground. Go for the RNC if he can keep him down, maybe try attack the ankle more. Meat Effete posted:I'm pretty sure that Yoshida move isn't a mistake, given that high level judoka constantly break or hyperextend their elbows while trying to prevent the ippon. It's a calculated risk that everyone is aware of. It is a giant contradiction. Ukemi goes from, "learning to fall safely and also being able to return to attacking your opponent with newaza." to "Who cares? I just need to not land on my back" Senor P. fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 22:10
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Apologies for the Bravoism but it seems to me that Marcelo should have switched to Truck as soon as his opponent fell to his knees and gone to back the way Ryan does here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJT_PgVgPY when he stood back up. I realize that this isn't Marcelo's 'style' but it really seems like the 'right answer' to that problem imo. Also judo and sport judo are basically diametrically opposed in both philosophy and tactics, hence the contradiction of having incredibly high level judoka do completely un-judo things in a sport judo competition. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 22:25
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Ligur posted:I met a lazy man today The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Do twenty sit-ups!"... and I'll whisper "no."
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Nov 12, 2011 23:50
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Do twenty sit-ups!"... and I'll whisper "no." You wonderful man. This is where my mind went as well. e: Senor P. posted:
I'm not going to presume to guess at Marcelo's game, but usually, from that sitting position, he teaches you to go to the x-guard. There's a lot of good entries into it if you get that one leg from a sitting position. Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 03:43
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Made weight (got 1 kilo under) Go 2nd place in my pool. Bronze medal in my weight class. loving happy for a first competition! Should have some embarassing videos to come! First fight I was just out of my game and got dominated like an idiot. Second fight I did well. Third fight I won by point (1 wazari 1 yuko to 1 yuko) Then I thought it was over but I learned at the last minute that I was part of a semi-final and was out of my game. The guy was much stronger than me and beat me without too much trouble but I got out of his hold on the ground twice so that was good. Also had him in a hold at some point but I misunderstood the judge and thought he said mate so I let him go  Also posted my arm when he threw me :L that hurt a little bit uhuh.
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Nov 13, 2011 21:41
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Thats great for your first tourney. Jealous man here.
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Nov 13, 2011 22:01
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KingColliwog posted:Made weight (got 1 kilo under) congrats man, good job
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Nov 13, 2011 22:15
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Thanks to both of you, but now I just looked at the video and hahahaha, I'm sort of ashamed of many parts of them! But hey it was a first so it's ok I guess.
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Nov 13, 2011 23:05
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KingColliwog posted:Made weight (got 1 kilo under) Congrats, love to see the videos.
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Nov 13, 2011 23:30
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Kumo Jr. posted:Congrats, love to see the videos. Just finished uploading them. Funny thing is I usually am best a ground work but did all the worst thing ever in ground work at the comp haha. I'm the guy with the long hair and tape all over his injuries. My first fight : I was loving stressed and did nothing except suck and lose the fight. http://www.youtube.com/user/KingColliwog#p/a/u/2/y2Mz0PQI6Js My second fight : I felt better and it was fun. Established my grips the way I wanted. Missed a couple of opportunities, but did a loosy kouchi that worked pretty well. http://www.youtube.com/user/KingColliwog#p/a/u/2/_eyRemWu1D0 My third fight : Went through the whole 3 mins. Did many horrible things but ended up winning by points (I'm really passive in the last minute because I was ok with just keeping the point advantage). Had the guy in a hold but when the judge said that the timer was starting I thought he said mate so I let the guy go like an idiot! If the guy had any ground work skill I would have lost on many occasion. There's no word to describe how much I was gassing out during this fight. http://www.youtube.com/user/KingColliwog#p/a/u/0/1G19ELyNa68 My fourth fight : Didn't know I was supposed to fight until like 1 min before the fight so I wasn't into it (after my pool was over, I thought it was done but there was enough people in my weight class to make some semi-finals and since I was 2nd best in my pool I was to fight against the winner of the other pool). Hurt my elbow when I posted my arm during that throw. Pretty happy with my escape from side control and from mount. Bonus point for one of the girls in my club being loving energetic in the corner all fight long hahaha http://www.youtube.com/user/KingColliwog#p/a/u/0/JKNPX3GnnOI The two guys I lost again were both quite a bit stronger and more experienced than me so that's cool too. edit : watching the videos I noticed that wow... I almost only did ko ouchi gari the whole comp :|. Also, I really like that small Ko uchi to Ouchi gari combo in the second video. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 01:05
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pretty presumptions, thinking to know what MARCELLO GARCIA 'should' have done. Cool tourny, King Colliwog!
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Nov 14, 2011 04:01
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Syphilis Fish posted:pretty presumptions, thinking to know what MARCELLO GARCIA 'should' have done. I did suggest he use what worked well in the match. (Attacking from low on the back, arms around the hips, legs on the back of the knees, dragging the guy down to the ground.) However, Marcelo goes for the high back twice. I don't think it is presumptuous to say that using the same strategy to attack is not going to work the second time if it did not work the first. Particularly when this is on video. There are of course videos where Marcelo has jumped to the high back of a standing opponent, and dragged them to the ground. But if you don't have the person off balance or an RNC, then you have nothing. The entire point I wanted to make is that jumping up on someone's back in a tournament, where defending submission attempts with slams is legal, may not be the smartest idea. Particularly if you're not able to secure a submission or get them off balance and to the ground. Since I am so wrong to criticize Marcelo. How is jumping up onto someones back, with no RNC an effective attack? Especially if the person you're attacking is able to remain standing and in control? What about when they outweight you by 150 lbs and you're nice and high off the ground? I mean it's a great position to be in if you're sure the guy won't fall back on top of you, or that you're sure you can take it. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 06:17
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I just assume that while I am staring at a leglock Marcelo is staring through space and time and contemplating all possible futures in all possible alternate universes, meditating upon an infinity of armlocks that transcend our pathetic mono-reality. Could anyone who's done extensive cross-training of Judo and BJJ give me a run down of the newaza rules/etiquette? Last time I went there I felt like I was being an rear end in a top hat because I truly didn't know what I couldn't do. I knew I couldn't do leglocks, but I didn't realize I couldn't attack shoulders, and I didn't realize that I couldn't put my hand on their face to grind out a RNC, among other things. Are things like guillotines illegal? Am I bound to just do armbars and blood chokes?
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Nov 14, 2011 12:46
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^^^^^Pretty much. If Marcello did it, it was probably the right thing to do at that moment. I cannot presume to know what he was thinking/trying to accomplish. I do know that if it is a much bigger dude, you got to get to his back (or feet) or you're hosed. edit/ps I wasn't trying to attack you personally dude, I just would never presume to know what Marcello should have done until I pass an ADCC trial and could face him in competition. I know Im not that good (yet). Syphilis Fish fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 14:25
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Syphilis Fish posted:I just would never presume to know what Marcello should have done until I pass an ADCC trial and could face him in competition. I know Im not that good (yet). That's why I made sure to state exactly that in my post  I'm convinced through personal experience that Marcelo possesses the ability to cheat at real life and noclip through the floor in order to take your back.
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Nov 14, 2011 16:16
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Yo, Xguard86... trying to get a hold of you but you don't have Plat apparently. Even tried to buy it for you, but I guess I need your email address to do that. Could you shoot me an email at Phrost at Bullshido d0tcom? Thanks.
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Nov 14, 2011 17:40
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Senor P. posted:Except it is pretty much going against everything that is taught in Judo from day 1. It's not really a contradiction. Posting can prevent takedowns, at the risk of injury. You are taught not to post because usually, it's not worth risking injury to make a throw less effective. In the Olympics/World Championships, fighters will gladly risk breaking an arm to give themselves a greater chance at winning.
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Nov 14, 2011 17:59
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Phrost posted:Yo, Xguard86... trying to get a hold of you but you don't have Plat apparently. Even tried to buy it for you, but I guess I need your email address to do that. Could you shoot me an email at Phrost at Bullshido d0tcom? Thanks. Email sent
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Nov 14, 2011 18:57
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I just assume that while I am staring at a leglock Marcelo is staring through space and time and contemplating all possible futures in all possible alternate universes, meditating upon an infinity of armlocks that transcend our pathetic mono-reality. Yeah it's pretty much limited to arm bars, elbow locks, and blood chokes. You can check out the newaza links at judoinfo.com for a bit more detail. Neck/spine attacks are illegal, but carotid/trachea chokes aren't, so careful with the guillotines but if you're doing them right it's legit (I'd still avoid them in comps). Also, while you can't grind the face to sink your RNC you can drive your thumb knuckle into the soft spot where their jaw connects to their ear to generate enough discomfort that they lift&turn their head. Mechafunkzilla posted:It's not really a contradiction. Posting can prevent takedowns, at the risk of injury. You are taught not to post because usually, it's not worth risking injury to make a throw less effective. In the Olympics/World Championships, fighters will gladly risk breaking an arm to give themselves a greater chance at winning. you don't see a contradiction there? judo is meant to teach people to resolve conflicts gently, without causing harm to anyone involved. posting to block throws can mean preventing an opponent from throwing you safely in order to avoid losing a tournament- that's the exact opposite of judo, and also totally devoid of common sense. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 19:08
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Ridleys Revenge posted:you don't see a contradiction there? judo is meant to teach people to resolve conflicts gently, without causing harm to anyone involved. posting to block throws can mean preventing an opponent from throwing you safely in order to avoid losing a tournament- that's the exact opposite of judo, and also totally devoid of common sense. It's only a contradiction because you've got this really weird view on what Judo is that nobody outside your lineage agrees with.
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Nov 14, 2011 20:23
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Ridleys Revenge posted:Yeah it's pretty much limited to arm bars, elbow locks, and blood chokes. You can check out the newaza links at judoinfo.com for a bit more detail. Neck/spine attacks are illegal, but carotid/trachea chokes aren't, so careful with the guillotines but if you're doing them right it's legit (I'd still avoid them in comps). Also, while you can't grind the face to sink your RNC you can drive your thumb knuckle into the soft spot where their jaw connects to their ear to generate enough discomfort that they lift&turn their head. Sometimes you have to win or you die. That's the essence of judo to.
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Nov 14, 2011 20:32
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Ridleys Revenge posted:you don't see a contradiction there? judo is meant to teach people to resolve conflicts gently, without causing harm to anyone involved. posting to block throws can mean preventing an opponent from throwing you safely in order to avoid losing a tournament- that's the exact opposite of judo, and also totally devoid of common sense. I think you've established your opinion that sport judo is nonsense. But in that context, why are you even bothered that Yoshida, a through-and-through sport judoka, sorry, gi sport grappler, did what he did?
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Nov 14, 2011 20:37
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Meat Effete posted:It's only a contradiction because you've got this really weird view on what Judo is that nobody outside your lineage agrees with. It's not actually that weird, Kano was very clear in ALL his Judo writings that it's designed to teach people seiryoku zen'yō (精力善用?, maximum efficiency, minimum effort) and jita kyōei (自他共栄?, mutual welfare and benefit). Who but its creator has is more qualified to say how Judo should be? Syphilis Fish posted:Sometimes you have to win or you die. That's the essence of judo to. No it isn't, you're just making that up, and that's definitely not the case in the situation under discussion. kimbo305 posted:I think you've established your opinion that sport judo is nonsense. But in that context, why are you even bothered that Yoshida, a through-and-through sport judoka, sorry, gi sport grappler, did what he did? I compete regularly; I don't think sport judo is nonsense. I think judoka on the whole these days are incredibly misguided in their belief that winning is everything (note above). It bothers me that Yoshida put himself in a dangerous position to avoid losing because it demonstrates that even the best judoka are being corrupted by the shallow "win at any cost" ideology, and because posters here continue to praise his decision and imply that we should emulate his mistakes because of his successes.
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Nov 14, 2011 21:26
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Ridleys Revenge posted:It's not actually that weird, Kano was very clear in ALL his Judo writings that it's designed to teach people seiryoku zen'yō (精力善用?, maximum efficiency, minimum effort) and jita kyōei (自他共栄?, mutual welfare and benefit). Who but its creator has is more qualified to say how Judo should be? Kano also would have gotten his rear end thrown all over the place by Yoshida sooo Judo is also supposed to be about smaller people being able to throw bigger people so I guess weight classes are anti-judo? It's a sport, the point is to win. You play according to the rules.
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Nov 14, 2011 21:51
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