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Can we please stop having this argument all the loving time? I know I participated in this many time but gently caress does it get old. The only true meaning of judo is to sweep the leg like Johny  IMG_6525 by king colliwog, on Flickr KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 15, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 21:58
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Yes, weight classes are anti-judo, a Kano vs. Yoshida match would be silly for a variety of reasons and wouldn't prove anything, and I agree with you wholeheartedly KC- this discussion comes up way too often, but what does it say about us if we let the wrong attitude propagate because we're just too tired of the discussion to correct it? It's a definite 'rock and a hard place' situation for me
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Nov 14, 2011 22:09
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Kano versus Yoshida would be terrifying because one man has been dead for over sixty years.
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Nov 14, 2011 22:22
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Xguard86 posted:Kano versus Yoshida would be terrifying because one man has been dead for over sixty years. At 10th Dan you learn how to re-animate.
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Nov 14, 2011 22:29
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dead men don't post their arms
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Nov 14, 2011 22:39
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origami posted:dead men don't post their arms except for a few hours right after death where that's all they do.
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Nov 14, 2011 22:55
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I've been thinking about learning Judo, there's a place that teaches it a little way from here, but like many goons I'm pretty overweight, and I'm worried about hurting myself* would it benefit me to lose weight before going? Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to be Batman levels of badass, what martial art[s] would you recommend to me? e: I guess I should quantify how fat I am, 5' 8" and 220lb * I'm also worried about being beaten up by an 81 year old man. Crankit fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 23:26
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I remember once when I was a green belt, I spent the day working on cartwheeling out of tomoe nages (circle throws), and got pretty drat good at it. Later, I was in randori against a black belt who was training for Nationals, and he hit me with a yoko tomoe nage (sideways circle throw). I attempted to post my hand to cartwheel, but because the sideways variation changes the angle of the throw, I realized too late that I was about to fall the wrong way over my wrist, and I couldn't lift it up because my weight was already on it. I vividly remember looking in horror at the judoka who was throwing me (while flying through the air), and seeing him split-second register the source of my fear, and change the angle of his throw to free my wrist before it broke. I learned more judo that day than I did through my first clean throw.
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Nov 14, 2011 23:34
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Crankit posted:I've been thinking about learning Judo, there's a place that teaches it a little way from here, but like many goons I'm pretty overweight, and I'm worried about hurting myself* would it benefit me to lose weight before going? Don't worry about losing the weight, just go, see if you like it, and the weight will work itself out with the improved discipline and motivation that comes with getting into a martial art. At least that's how it did for me. I was a bit of a tubbo, 6'0" and 215, but I was definitely lacking in anything resembling muscle from years of lifting nothing heavier than a notebook and my fingers to type on it. I got sick of feeling like a wet noodle constantly and chose BJJ / Muay Thai in the hope it would beat the fear and fat out of me, and it did. Once I got into the groove of training, suddenly I was thinking, I better have my cardio in order before the next roll, so I'm not lying in the corner puking again while 16 and 60 year olds laugh at me. I was forced to acknowledge that a better diet and overall fitness approach was necessary if I wanted to hang in the gym. Just dive in man. Judo is awesome and great fun, western boxing is great, Muay Thai is great, and there's always the obvious one I'm gonna recommend, BJJ.
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Nov 14, 2011 23:53
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Ridleys Revenge posted:I remember once when I was a green belt, I spent the day working on cartwheeling out of tomoe nages (circle throws), and got pretty drat good at it. Not to be an rear end or dog-pile, but I don't usually go around trying to break the arms of people I train with in MT or Jits. Sportsmanship and concern for your fellow partner's safety is hardly something unique to Judo.
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Nov 15, 2011 00:07
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Crankit posted:I've been thinking about learning Judo, there's a place that teaches it a little way from here, but like many goons I'm pretty overweight, and I'm worried about hurting myself* would it benefit me to lose weight before going? Do it. Do it. "Batman levels of badass": crosstrain a striking art with a grappling art, typically for MMA this will be kickboxing/BJJ
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Nov 15, 2011 00:12
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TheStampede posted:Not to be an rear end or dog-pile, but I don't usually go around trying to break the arms of people I train with in MT or Jits. Sportsmanship and concern for your fellow partner's safety is hardly something unique to Judo. You and I applaud the good sportsmanship, but from the all-too-prevalent 'win or die' perspective, that kind of thing is just weakness, which is why modern judoka (especially at the top levels) do employ everything from eye gouges to biting if they think they can get away with it. See why I'm so concerned about letting that attitude stand unquestioned?
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Nov 15, 2011 00:20
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Ridleys Revenge posted:Yes, weight classes are anti-judo, a Kano vs. Yoshida match would be silly for a variety of reasons and wouldn't prove anything, and I agree with you wholeheartedly KC- this discussion comes up way too often, but what does it say about us if we let the wrong attitude propagate because we're just too tired of the discussion to correct it? It's a definite 'rock and a hard place' situation for me How many people have changed their views on this issue in this forum since the first time this argument came up? It's cool that we have a discussion about posting arms to avoid fall, but let's not make it about real judo or whatever. It's about as useful and constructive as all those arguments between atheists and hardcore Christians that pop up from time to time. Posting your arm to avoid falling on your back is a stupid decision, except when you're in a very high level championship where it might change your life if you manage to not fall on your back (breaking an arm suck, but it's not the end of the world either). At this level it's not even a question that really relates to judo. Most people would probably accept to have a high risk of breaking their arm if it meant they would get similar money and fame that will come from a gold medal at the Olympics. I know I would gladly take the broken arm. I broke a few bones in the past and while it's certainly not pleasant, it's really not that horrible either.
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Nov 15, 2011 00:33
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You're not being fair. This would be comparable to a debate between theists and atheists if the atheists were claiming to be Catholics (and if we could prove God personally wrote the Bible) And minds don't change quickly. As long as we lead by example and tell the facts, we're doing what we can. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Nov 15, 2011 |
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Nov 15, 2011 01:03
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mewse posted:"Batman levels of badass": crosstrain a striking art with a grappling art, typically for MMA this will be kickboxing/BJJ Also I would like to note that going into a martial art with the intention of becoming batman / badass / a badass batman man is silly and a bad idea. In this case it's not fatness that's gonna cause injury, it's the notion that you're there to learn to be a bad bad man. I've been training for 4 years and I am decent but I am not an asskicker. I am a nerd who likes competitive ground hugging with no illusions about that. Ridleys Revenge posted:You're not being fair. This would be comparable to a debate between theists and atheists if the atheists were claiming to be Catholics (and if we could prove God personally wrote the Bible) No True Judoka fallacy.
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Nov 15, 2011 03:09
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Also I would like to note that going into a martial art with the intention of becoming batman / badass / a badass batman man is silly and a bad idea. The funniest thing about doing martial arts is that the more you do them, the more you realize that human beings are pretty fragile fleshbags, which makes you less of a batman and more of a ghandi. And that, is martial arts in a nutshell.
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Nov 15, 2011 03:42
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Also I would like to note that going into a martial art with the intention of becoming batman / badass / a badass batman man is silly and a bad idea. I just want to point out, the batman scenario wasn't serious, in case you're all now thinking I'm a madman going to defend puckins with my bare hands.
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Nov 15, 2011 04:03
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Drewjitsu posted:The funniest thing about doing martial arts is that the more you do them, the more you realize that human beings are pretty fragile fleshbags, which makes you less of a batman and more of a ghandi. This is too true. I learned to be a lot more careful after a bad fall left me hosed up for a couple years. Much more careful now. Crankit posted:I just want to point out, the batman scenario wasn't serious, in case you're all now thinking I'm a madman going to defend puckins with my bare hands. No worries, I just felt compelled to say something because I remember entertaining similar thoughts before I got into the swing of things and I know lots of others think that way. Some of my least favorite memories of the gym involve ragin' dudes trying to be real hard like. Also I want to emphasize the difference between real world self defense techniques, such as: 1.) Run 2.) Run and scream 3.) Run and call the cops 4.) Avoid the situation altogether ... and all the things you're gonna learn in the gym. Couldn't be further apart.
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Nov 15, 2011 04:13
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I understand that self defense is way more than knowing martial arts, and I understand the conventional wisdom that it is best to create separation between you and an aggressor. But I'm getting tired of the platitude that you only need Nike-do and that martial arts are useless in a self defense situation. Of course if it is just you and you have the opportunity to deescalate or run that is fine but there are a lot of real situations in which you cannot. Years ago before I did martial arts, I stopped an attempted murder-suicide by a friend's ex-boyfriend. I could have ran and called the police but my friend would have been injured or killed during that time. Having no real choice, another male friend and I tackled the ex-boyfriend although we were unarmed and he had a weapon. Another time, a female roommate answered our door to find a stranger pushing his way into our home assuming she was home alone. I had no ability to retreat without leaving her alone to defend herself so I had to charge the guy. I know many others in my gym who have had to use their training to defend themselves or others. These were not simple bar room ego contests. These were life threatening situations. It isn't always as simple as just giving up your wallet or retreating, and it does help to know an effective martial art.
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Nov 15, 2011 05:06
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Yuns posted:I understand that self defense is way more than knowing martial arts, and I understand the conventional wisdom that it is best to create separation between you and an aggressor. But I'm getting tired of the platitude that you only need Nike-do and that martial arts are useless in a self defense situation. ... It isn't always as simple as just giving up your wallet or retreating, and it does help to know an effective martial art. Maybe I was too broad with my words, I don't disagree, but I never meant to portray practicing how to fight as completely useless in a fightin' situation, just that the first things that you should think of when it comes to non-sport physical confrontation is "don't" with the obvious caveat that if it comes to a fight, you'd better win and win fast. When someone mentions batman or hero-like aspirations, however facetiously, in their rationalization of starting martial arts I emphasize how silly that is. I remember a story of a talented MMA fighter getting stabbed to death while mounted on the smaller dude and raining down punches. A previous relationship of mine was with a girl who had been assaulted years before, and I insisted we drill self defense basics like what to do if someones restraining you, trying to choke or smother you, etc. Repeatedly went over how to throw a punch / knee / whatever (to the throat and nuts especially) and emphasized the need to not freeze and act on muscle memory in panic situations. A year after we broke up she called me at 2 AM in a panic, her most recent ex had tried to force himself on her and wouldn't let go of her, she knee'd him in the nuts and got a good throat shot in, left him on the floor, ran and called the cops, then me. I'm still proud of that and am a believer that knowing and training how to deal with that is a Good Thing for anyone. Some years before that I got assaulted in the middle of a bad breakup argument, she took a swing at my eyes with nails out (still have scars on my hand from where I blocked it), I was able to restrain her without hurting her until she calmed down, and I attribute that ability to my time training. So I understand the power of training a martial art, don't get me wrong, but when I'm giving advice to people thinking about starting it up I will always skew it in the direction of deflating any notions of being a hero and kickin' rear end. The chances of you needing to use it are slim, and should only be seen as a very very last resort.
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Nov 15, 2011 06:52
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220 and 5'8" is not too fat to start Judo. I started at 340 and 5'10". In fact I'm still 290. My weight probably does hold me back from being very good (which is why I'm trying to lose it). If you want to lose weight you're going to need to exercise. So if you start Judo now and just throttle back the intensity to match your fitness level you will start to get in shape in a way that a)is more fun than treadmills or whatever and b)teaches you some skill.
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Nov 15, 2011 14:23
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Hellblazer187 posted:220 and 5'8" is not too fat to start Judo. I started at 340 and 5'10". In fact I'm still 290. My weight probably does hold me back from being very good (which is why I'm trying to lose it). If you want to lose weight you're going to need to exercise. So if you start Judo now and just throttle back the intensity to match your fitness level you will start to get in shape in a way that a)is more fun than treadmills or whatever and b)teaches you some skill. That. I'm not fat at all, but there's plenty of guy who are either fat or used to be fat when they started. You'll have advantages and disadvantages that will come with your weight. Learn how to use them and you'll do well. Also, you will lose weight, especially if you don't do many sports right now. And, doing judo (or any other competitive martial arts) might give you some motivation additional motivation to train out of the dojo too! Being fat is no reason to not start right now. If you wait you'll always say to yourself that you were dumb for wasting all that time not training.
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Nov 15, 2011 15:05
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KingColliwog posted:Just finished uploading them. Funny thing is I usually am best a ground work but did all the worst thing ever in ground work at the comp haha. nice going KC! The guy stepped around you nicely to get a pretty good throw on you in the first fight.  The second and third looked good - you were pushing the pace in both matches. God drat that last fight - the upper belts regularly counter me on that move the same way. Dude looked strong. Hearing your dojomate's Quebecois for all the videos was probably my favourite part. "ATTACK LE LEG!"
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Nov 15, 2011 15:27
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Bangkero posted:nice going KC! The guy stepped around you nicely to get a pretty good throw on you in the first fight. thanks for the comment! Yep in the first fight the other guy definitely deserved the win haha. It was really a no contest, but I think I could have done much better if he hadn't been my first opponent! Learned that he trains 6x a week after the fight, he was a pretty fun guy too. For the last fight yeah the guy was strong. Looked quite a bit more muscular than me (not like that's a huge achievement). Talked to him a little bit after the tournament and it turns out he also does boxing and MMA. He's the one who ended up getting first place in my division (the one who beat me in the first match finished 2nd). When he did some sort of Hiza Guruma and spun me around at the beginning of the fight I instinctively used my arm to stop my fall and poo poo does my elbow hurt right now! Haha yeah, our group was probably the most vocal one at the competition. Especially the girl that is yelling all the time hahaha, she's always like that it's hilarious. Most of the time she was telling me to throw my opponent backward because he was already out of balance. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 15, 2011 |
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Nov 15, 2011 16:53
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:I was a bit of a tubbo, 6'0" and 215, but I was definitely lacking in anything resembling muscle from years of lifting nothing heavier than a notebook and my fingers to type on it. I got sick of feeling like a wet noodle constantly and chose BJJ / Muay Thai in the hope it would beat the fear and fat out of me, and it did. Putting this in the OP
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Nov 15, 2011 17:22
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I'm super pumped how well the big guy (he's about 6' and over 230 or so) is doing in my 'mma striking' class. ( I don't presume to teach kickboxing, as I've never had a sanctioned match ). He's holding his own in a basic way after only two/three weeks. Unlike the 16 year old kids who just want to try and hit stuff, but then are too afraid during sparring, there is no fear for this guy, he just tries and asks questions. (Sometimes too many questions, when I just want them to STFU and drill the drat 1-2-3-legkick combo, but more is better than none) Just chiming in that at least training should be for everyone.
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Nov 16, 2011 14:42
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Hey guys, it's time for the concessional injection of nerdy HEMA/WMA videos. The Swordfish event in Gothenburg, Sweden happened two weekends ago. Along with the normal workshop-type classes, the event hosted longsword test cutting, sabre, sword & buckler, rapier & dagger, women's longsword and open longsword tournaments. The finals for all of these tournaments were broadcasted live online and everything went quite well. North America took second in cutting, 3rd in sabre, 4th in rapier and 2nd in women's longsword. Here are my three fights... critique them please, even if you don't really know anything about swords. General rules: full body, except back of the head, were targets... a clean hit is a point, a double hit (a hit at about the same time) was thrown out and an after blow (a hit in response to a received hit that is performed within one step, half a second, one tempo or whatever you want to call it) that negates the other guy's point. Blows to the head would preclude afterblows. Starting on the left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxfRXj2yEbk On the right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviBcGFVKpY On the right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMFT5YxLwT0
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Nov 16, 2011 20:22
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A flying piece of posted:Hey guys, it's time for the concessional injection of nerdy HEMA/WMA videos. I really don't know what to critique since I have absolutely 0 idea how to fight with a sword, but that looks quite fun. It's also a lot less nerdy than one might think just hearing about this. Do you specialize only in longsword?
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Nov 16, 2011 20:51
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KingColliwog posted:I really don't know what to critique since I have absolutely 0 idea how to fight with a sword, but that looks quite fun. It's also a lot less nerdy than one might think just hearing about this. Do you specialize only in longsword? Our club spends a huge majority of our time on longsword, but we also claim to do grappling (which is allowed in almost every tournament, no matter the weapon), messer (a single edged sword-like knife), dussack (a leather training weapon similar to a sabre or falchion traditionally used for tournaments), sword & buckler and spear/quarterstaff.
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Nov 16, 2011 21:32
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A flying piece of posted:Our club spends a huge majority of our time on longsword, but we also claim to do grappling (which is allowed in almost every tournament, no matter the weapon), messer (a single edged sword-like knife), dussack (a leather training weapon similar to a sabre or falchion traditionally used for tournaments), sword & buckler and spear/quarterstaff. If I was a good wrestler could I go to a tournament and just take everyone down?
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Nov 16, 2011 21:37
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niethan posted:If I was a good wrestler could I go to a tournament and just take everyone down? I don't know how well takedowns work when you are bleeding to death from a sword wound.
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Nov 16, 2011 21:42
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niethan posted:If I was a good wrestler could I go to a tournament and just take everyone down? Potentially, yes. Throws are a huge part of pretty much every historical European weapon system... I know that one of my problems is that I don't switch to grappling when I collide with someone or otherwise get too close with our swords bound up. A dutch guy did something similar in a tournament two summers ago. There was a guy there he didn't particularly like and, in that tournament, a stout punch to the face counted as a point. He said he was going to punch the guy he didn't like in the face over and over... and he did just that. He'd walk up, parry or otherwise bind up the guys sword and nail him. Tournaments are currently moving away from awarding points for punches, kicks and throws and now view them as their own advantage. You should be able to cut, thrust or clearly demonstrate domination (in the case of throws) after you perform them to get the point. However, if you're asking if you can just totally give up the weapon and try to shoot for people's legs... well... that might not work so well. There's a pretty good basic takedown at the end of this video from the women's longsword finals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slaSa9QWbac A flying piece of fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 16, 2011 |
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Nov 16, 2011 21:45
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I feel like stuff a shot takes on a whole new meaning when you can jab them in the back with your huge sword.
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Nov 16, 2011 22:14
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Xguard86 posted:I feel like stuff a shot takes on a whole new meaning when you can jab them in the back with your huge sword. That option would work better with a shorter sword. You'd have to pop your hand up to the bottom of the blade where there's no edge to get decent angle. Does anyone dual wield or use sword and buckler? 
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Nov 16, 2011 23:06
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kimbo305 posted:That option would work better with a shorter sword. You'd have to pop your hand up to the bottom of the blade where there's no edge to get decent angle. You can actually grab anywhere along a sharp blade without gloves provided you grip it correctly (with pressure on the flats) and don't let your hand slip too much. It's called half-swording... but this is done with one hand on the grip and one on the blade similar to a spear, not with just one hand on the blade. Not the dual wielding you're thinking of. No one is running around with two longswords. There was a rapier tournament with daggers in the offhand, though: http://www.youtube.com/gothenburghfs#p/u/80/3C19TpfLJc0 Personally, I think rapier alone is more fun to watch... soooo many double kills in rapier/dagger but that was also true with rapier at all back then. And then from the sword and buckler finals, this is an American (who lives in Norway) fighting a guy who doesn't do HEMA at all.. he does some type of stick fighting and JSA. I'm not really sure how he got to the final fight, but the HEMA girl beat him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7bh9RHfOnI Edit: 'Not really sure how he got to the finals' isn't to put down stick fighting or JSA, but rather watching the way he fights in that video. He barely uses the buckler to defend himself and, at least earlier on in the tournament, a lot of his hits were with the flat rather than edge of the sword. A flying piece of fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 16, 2011 |
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Nov 16, 2011 23:16
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A flying piece of posted:Hey guys, it's time for the concessional injection of nerdy HEMA/WMA videos. I put the webstream of swordfish on my bigass tv and ate popcorn while living vicariously through other people's accomplishments. I felt like a fat, nerdy sports lover. This is the problem with everyone wearing the same black fencing jackets and masks, I can never tell anyone apart. The fights were pretty cool! Only useful critique I can give is the standard stuff: you should watch your back foot--you have a tendency to lift up your heel a lot when striking, and when going into the high guard. Also, I think you have tend to wait for the opponent to make the first move, instead of seizing the initiative. You scored a few nice hits, though. We need more HEMA tournaments streaming/recording their fights.
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Nov 17, 2011 00:41
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Rhaka posted:I put the webstream of swordfish on my bigass tv and ate popcorn while living vicariously through other people's accomplishments. I felt like a fat, nerdy sports lover. Wait are you someone I'd know? Yea, the 'everyone is in black' issue is one of the reason's I painted my mask. I have our Maryland KDF banner straight down the middle of it. I'm also totally for putting patches on arms and printing names across the back of jackets. We're already planning to stream the tournament here at Longpoint in Maryland come June... we just might not have the awesome commentators.
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Nov 17, 2011 02:53
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niethan posted:If I was a good wrestler could I go to a tournament and just take everyone down? IIRC grappling in the armed arts tends to resemble Judo more than Wrestling. You try to bind weapons and then go for a hip throw or trip.
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Nov 17, 2011 03:31
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Fitocracy re-worked the points for grappling and now it is worth way more. I am still totally digging it. There are 48 people in the Martial Arts Goons group and I think it's cool seeing the actual workouts of lots of the posters here. We have a group specific invite now. If that doesn't take you straight to the group just do a search for "Martial Arts Goons" once you register.
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Nov 17, 2011 03:39
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Thoguh posted:Fitocracy re-worked the points for grappling and now it is worth way more. I am still totally digging it. There are 48 people in the Martial Arts Goons group and I think it's cool seeing the actual workouts of lots of the posters here. We have a group specific invite now. If that doesn't take you straight to the group just do a search for "Martial Arts Goons" once you register. i signed up but they don't have western boxing so i'm going to log my workouts as "hiphop dancing"
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Nov 17, 2011 03:49
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