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1st AD posted:I'm surprised arm triangle isn't higher on that list. I don't follow competitive grappling, so are those stats fairly close to what you'd see in grappling comps? This is pure guesswork but they're probably pretty different. For one, that information is a bit dated, and for two, in MMA you rarely bother with a submission from mount, you just go punch-crazy. I imagine pure grappling would look quite a bit different, but I couldn't find any statistics. At a wild guess, armbars, RNC's and triangles would still be huge, but then you'd have a bunch of mount chokes pretty high up? And yeah, I'm sorry for dragging that issue back up, I realize now that I look like an rear end in a top hat for returning to the subject after it'd settled down.
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Nov 16, 2011 12:39
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1st AD posted:I'm surprised arm triangle isn't higher on that list. I don't follow competitive grappling, so are those stats fairly close to what you'd see in grappling comps? In addition to what's already been said, IMO you'd see fewer guillotines in competition grappling, but that's just a guess
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Nov 16, 2011 15:26
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nemoulette posted:I don't want to continue this dumb argument, but this is really the krux of the issue. I'm not of the opinion (and who says that you're correct anyway?) that this is precisely what "high percentage" refers to. The whole reason why I'm annoyed at the people calling cortx (and me by extension) sperglords is because "high percentage" is an incredibly dumb term to begin with. I'm not arguing that a banana split is an easier and more simple submission to pull off than armbars and I would never tell you that you shouldn't make armbars/triangles/RNCs your priority. It's just that "high percentage" is as a dumb concept as "p4p" is for rankings. It isn't a dumb concept at all, everyone normal intuitively knows what it means and its a useful word to describe certain things and situations, only sperglords get angry about the semantics of it
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Nov 16, 2011 15:41
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james earl pwns posted:It isn't a dumb concept at all, everyone normal intuitively knows what it means and its a useful word to describe certain things and situations, only sperglords get angry about the semantics of it
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Nov 16, 2011 16:05
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james earl pwns posted:only sperglords get angry about the semantics of it
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Nov 16, 2011 16:24
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nemoulette posted:if you by "intuitively" mean "people who don't actually think about what expressions mean and would gladly say dumb poo poo like 'i could care less'" then yeah maybe Well, I guess when you put it that way, about the dumb poo poo, you're completely right. I'll spread the word around that the phrase 'high percentage' has been debunked by internet linguists, hopefully everyone stops the dumb poo poo.
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Nov 16, 2011 16:24
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1st AD posted:I'm surprised arm triangle isn't higher on that list. I don't follow competitive grappling, so are those stats fairly close to what you'd see in grappling comps? Not really. In gi BJJ you see three finishes making up probably 90% of submissions in (black belt) matches. The bow and arrow is by far the most finished submission at the higher levels(I don't think anyone tracks numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more bow and arrow finishes than all other finishes combined at Worlds among black belts). After that you have cross chokes from mount, armbars, triangles, omoplatas and assorted leg locks making up the majority of the rest. The kimura, guillotine and arm triangle are basically non existent in high level gi matches. At this years ADCC the most common submission was probably the heel hook, followed by guillotines and arm bars. I know Gabi Garcia hit an americana, but I don't think there were any kimuras hit. Also I'm pretty sure that there were no darces or arm triangles at all this year
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Nov 16, 2011 18:54
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nemoulette posted:I don't want to continue this dumb argument, but this is really the krux of the issue. I'm not of the opinion (and who says that you're correct anyway?) that this is precisely what "high percentage" refers to. The whole reason why I'm annoyed at the people calling cortx (and me by extension) sperglords is because "high percentage" is an incredibly dumb term to begin with. I'm not arguing that a banana split is an easier and more simple submission to pull off than armbars and I would never tell you that you shouldn't make armbars/triangles/RNCs your priority. It's just that "high percentage" is as a dumb concept as "p4p" is for rankings. If I actually had the tapes of everything I would sit down and count up the ADCCs and mundials. It would be pretty fascinating number material. Dante fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Nov 16, 2011 |
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Nov 16, 2011 19:15
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I wonder if leglocks are so commmon because they are less utilized in other tournaments, and so the defenses aren't as good or if they are intrinsically easier to finish. After watching ADCC, I've been working more leg attacks and have tapped quite a few people that I usually don't submit.
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Nov 16, 2011 19:42
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Xguard86 posted:I wonder if leglocks are so commmon because they are less utilized in other tournaments, and so the defenses aren't as good or if they are intrinsically easier to finish. To be fair Palhares counts for like a quarter of those all by himself
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Nov 16, 2011 19:45
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Xguard86 posted:I wonder if leglocks are so commmon because they are less utilized in other tournaments, and so the defenses aren't as good or if they are intrinsically easier to finish. The fact that heel hooks aren't legal at a lot of the other big tournaments might play a small role in how prevalent they were, but I don't think it's a big part of why they were so common. I think there's a couple reasons you saw so many heel hooks at ADCC. One of the main reasons is that you can set them up from almost anywhere(top, bottom, in the guard, past the guard etc). The other reason is that a properly applied heel hook doesn't give you enough time to defend and escape, if it's on it's basically over.
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Nov 16, 2011 21:04
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Just saw this through Stephan Kesting's facebook account. Pretty slick finish right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cEr2SIzm7o&t=35s (There's a breakdown of the technique on Stephan's site here).
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Nov 17, 2011 12:44
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I did not click on that link expecting to see the leg kimura/reverse omoplata or whatever you want to call it. I also whiffed on which guy was going to win, the guy in red is a mean mugging champion if not a sambo world champion.
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Nov 17, 2011 16:31
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dokomoy posted:I think there's a couple reasons you saw so many heel hooks at ADCC. One of the main reasons is that you can set them up from almost anywhere(top, bottom, in the guard, past the guard etc). The other reason is that a properly applied heel hook doesn't give you enough time to defend and escape, if it's on it's basically over.
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Nov 17, 2011 17:21
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I think 50/50 guard being the new hotness is probably leading to a lot more leglocks as well.
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Nov 17, 2011 17:58
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fatherdog posted:I think 50/50 guard being the new hotness is probably leading to a lot more leglocks as well. I thought 50/50 was big because its the leg attack position. Chicken and egg situation.
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Nov 17, 2011 18:31
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Xguard86 posted:I thought 50/50 was big because its the leg attack position. Chicken and egg situation. Not really; it started getting big primarily in gi tournaments.
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Nov 17, 2011 18:36
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fatherdog posted:Not really; it started getting big primarily in gi tournaments. so it is a stall position. You lied to me Ryan hall you LIED!
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Nov 17, 2011 18:42
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Xguard86 posted:so it is a stall position. You lied to me Ryan hall you LIED! What's funny is seeing two guys who are good at it go back and forth. Sweep! Sweep! Sweep! Sweep!
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Nov 17, 2011 18:49
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nemoulette posted:It's just that "high percentage" is as a dumb concept as "p4p" is for rankings. Yes. james earl pwns posted:It isn't a dumb concept at all, everyone normal intuitively knows what it means and its a useful word to describe certain things and situations, only sperglords get angry about the semantics of it It's a useless term used by people who are afraid of fun and terrified of innovation. People who want to shut down possibilities before they've even been given a chance. colonel_korn posted:Just saw this through Stephan Kesting's facebook account. Pretty slick finish right here: Yeah this move loving rules. And I can't hear Russian without thinking of Aleks' rap song now.
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Nov 17, 2011 19:20
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1st AD posted:I'm surprised arm triangle isn't higher on that list. I don't follow competitive grappling, so are those stats fairly close to what you'd see in grappling comps? I went to this years ADCC and there were a shitload of leglocks, something you don't see a lot of in MMA.
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Nov 17, 2011 22:07
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Roger Gracie not quitting MMA; says he's going to focus on it more intensely for future fights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jLATBzweP4 I want to believe he's serious about it but my heart has been broken too many times by BJJ aces underperforming to give it much credence.
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Nov 18, 2011 09:39
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Who Gotch Ya posted:It's a useless term used by people who are afraid of fun and terrified of innovation. People who want to shut down possibilities before they've even been given a chance. "gotch ya"
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Nov 18, 2011 10:00
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Do any Chicagoons have input on this place? I've been going back and forth with myself about giving them a call, but I don't like not knowing about a place first. The online reviews seem good, but I don't have a context for them, so I don't really want to base it on just that. Plus it's down the street from my school. http://www.graciebarratheloop.com/index.html
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Nov 19, 2011 07:49
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Smartest thing you can do is probably go there and inquire about their free classes and try it out for yourelf!
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Nov 19, 2011 08:28
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gently caress, this isn't hard. You aren't literally calculating the probability of winning with a triangle or whatever. It's a general statement that can be applied to a lot of things. A hail-mary is a low percentage play, a standard rush or short pass is higher percent. A jab is high percent, a superman punch is low percent. The actual event is deterministic, if you jab at the wrong time it isn't going to work and if you superman at the right time it's going to work.
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Nov 19, 2011 08:53
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Who Gotch Ya posted:It's a useless term used by people who are afraid of fun and terrified of innovation. People who want to shut down possibilities before they've even been given a chance. Actually, the vast majority of these possibilities have been given a chance and found wanting - that's pretty much the basis of Judo, and thereafter JiuJitsu.
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Nov 19, 2011 09:08
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Who Gotch Ya posted:
This is 100% wrong. There has been a ton of innovation at the highest levels of jiu jitsu that shows techniques working consistently against good people. 10 Years ago nobody played x-guard, 1 legged x guard, 50/50 or deep half. People did play DLR and R-DLR but they didn't really do any of the inverted stuff that's popular right now. The leg drag pass has gone from being an afterthought to one of the most popular guard passes. Just because people aren't working on there gogopaltas from side control bottom doesn't mean people(and jiu jitsu) isn't constantly evolving.
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Nov 19, 2011 09:38
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Little Miss RKO posted:Do any Chicagoons have input on this place? I've been going back and forth with myself about giving them a call, but I don't like not knowing about a place first. I train at the other GB school in Chicago, Gracie Barra Chicago which has classes in Lincoln Square and Lakeview. One of the instructors from GB Loop (purple belt I think) taught at our school once and it was a great class. He mentioned we were welcome at the Loop classes, but as far as I can tell the schools aren't affiliated other than both being Gracie Barra. I really like GB Chicago where I'm at. My only complaints are the standard GB complaints - you have to buy their gi and it's kind of expensive. Edit: If you are looking for downtown options, it looks like Carlson Gracie just moved his school from Old Town to the Loop: http://carlsongraciefederation.com/home.html Tambreet fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Nov 19, 2011 |
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Nov 19, 2011 13:42
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you know those interviews where chael isn't playing a heel but is actually just being himself and it kind of owns because he's not a clown for a little while? well here's 30 minutes of that http://www.flowrestling.org/video/517497-Thirty-minutes-with-Chael-Sonnen he talks about his thoughts on American wrestling (  ), the American wrestling Olympic team (), the respect wrestlers deserve, and comparing wrestlers in MMA to pure wrestlers.chael makes me want to follow wrestling.
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Nov 19, 2011 19:36
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Bubba Smith posted:
I didn't know so much in wrestling is only "one ball grab away". I know what it means but it sounds funny to hear. Nifft fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 19, 2011 |
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Nov 19, 2011 21:27
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx_w5A4ggMA Tons of crazy stuff is possible in BJJ, and is fun. This sweep is kind of crazy but entirely possible to pull off and involves some good fundamental positions and movements. Compare that to the techniques which we were criticizing like omoplata from bottom sidemount or gogoplata. A few people already beat me to it (fatherdog and dokomoy), but I also wanted to post this cool technique.
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Nov 19, 2011 21:39
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do any of you guys who have been grappling for a while ever use the tornado guard?
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Nov 19, 2011 22:23
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origami posted:do any of you guys who have been grappling for a while ever use the tornado guard? I don't personally, but one of the black belts here has been doing it a lot lately. In my experience rolling with him it's a lot like deep half or X guard, in the sense that the main struggle is getting into it; once you've actually got the position you're probably going to get the sweep.
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Nov 19, 2011 22:32
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I had an interesting grapple the other day. I went down and trained with some guys who do pure self defense based stuff, bits from thai boxing, judo, wrestling, cranks, joint locks, like Krav Maga I suppose but refined by some guys who've got a mess of experience in various martial arts. Interesting to approach guys who're trained to crank the poo poo out of whatever they get hold of with a BJJ guard looking for sweeps and triangles. My neck is sore as gently caress and I'm covered in bruises from the grinding of elbows and knees in various positions but it was cool to go from a more sport mindset of playing back and fourth trying to bait an opponent to more of a mindset where you feel like someone is trying to kill you if you don't defend and attack properly. I still triangled people like it was cool and hit some nice hip bump sweeps and guillotines from my guard, but yeah, very weird to grapple with people who's mindset was completely different. Good fun, I learned some nasty neck cranks.
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Nov 19, 2011 23:31
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BlindSite posted:I had an interesting grapple the other day. I went down and trained with some guys who do pure self defense based stuff, bits from thai boxing, judo, wrestling, cranks, joint locks, like Krav Maga I suppose but refined by some guys who've got a mess of experience in various martial arts.
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Nov 19, 2011 23:38
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Dante posted:I got a little showing of "real" self-defense grappling one time and it involved horrific unspeakable combo moves which made me very comfortable with BJJ being a pure sport. Yeah I wouldn't want to train some of the poo poo they did week in and out, but at the same time it was kind of cool to see what works and what doesn't that I've learned if someone's trying to mess your poo poo up instead of win a match.
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Nov 19, 2011 23:57
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BlindSite posted:Yeah I wouldn't want to train some of the poo poo they did week in and out, but at the same time it was kind of cool to see what works and what doesn't that I've learned if someone's trying to mess your poo poo up instead of win a match. Basically if the situation is that you're walking in a favela and you spot terere running for you foaming at the mouth you should just get a gun and train with that instead.
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Nov 20, 2011 00:14
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Dante posted:I don't really know to what extent you can actually train stuff like this without causing serious injury, I guess you can practice some simple moves but really there's only you and the four other psychopaths in the training session who've ever practiced counters to biting someones bicep to immobilize the muscle and stabbing your thumb in their eye socket. Realistically in a situation where you for some reason can't punch or run away you would just bounce the guy off concrete by throwing or doublelegging then back off, and if you absolutely had to incapacitate someone choke them unconscious because of legal reasons. Pretty much you tap fast and often and verbally as well, for stuff like eye rakes it's just a gentle hand over your face in that area, just to show, "yeah right now I'd be messing up your eyes". It's aggressive and there's force but it's controlled. I'm bruised and sore it hurt but not agony. These dudes do get a bit chute boxe esque when training though. Like I said, not something for week in and out but interesting.
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Nov 20, 2011 01:48
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