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I lived in Back Bay for a while and I didn't even see that many Minis - mostly A4s, 3-series and 5-series, luxury SUVs etc. Not really sure where they would populate in Boston - Allston/Brighton? Cambridge? Somerville?
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Nov 17, 2011 15:41
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In Cambridge and Boston, I've seen Minis swarming the place since they came out. Obviously it's not even fair to compare them on the street right now. The one 500 I've seen consistently is the one Enterprise rents out in Central Square. Seriously, walking the two blocks to the Central Square T, I fully expect to see 3-5 Minis go by.
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Nov 17, 2011 15:46
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I like the look and concept, but as someone put it earlier in the thread "An Italian car assembled in Mexico? What could go wrong?!" I want to see if they are complete basket cases or not. My gut tells me the first iteration is probably going to have some bugs to be worked out.
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Nov 17, 2011 15:58
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Sten Freak posted:"An Italian car assembled in Mexico? What could go wrong?!"
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Nov 17, 2011 16:29
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A Mercedes built in Alabama. A Toyota built in Texas, Indiana, or California. Fords built in Mexico, Hondas and GM cars built in Canada. Where its made is related to the available labor pool and its costs, materials transportation, and local government tax breaks. A significant portion of Ford cars are built in Mexico, and they haven't seemed to have problems (related to labor). DJ Commie fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Nov 17, 2011 |
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Nov 17, 2011 16:45
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I don't care where it's made, small urban cars like this are a niche in North America. Fact is that you'd be pressed to fit a typical north american grocery order in there and you really couldn't take much home from Ikea using it. So if you like to do things like go shop at Costco, or if you prefer to run more than one errand at a time, the Fiat 500 is most likely not the car for you. So that leaves it a good car for fashionistas for whom being seen is everything, and perhaps wealthier, multi-car households who can afford to buy a not-so-practical car, but in general they're likelier to buy a sports car.
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Nov 17, 2011 17:51
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el topo posted:I don't care where it's made, small urban cars like this are a niche in North America. Fact is that you'd be pressed to fit a typical north american grocery order in there and you really couldn't take much home from Ikea using it. So if you like to do things like go shop at Costco, or if you prefer to run more than one errand at a time, the Fiat 500 is most likely not the car for you. I wasn't quoting nor replying to you, so I have no idea why you think I am. There are plenty of Minis around, they are incredibly popular. They aren't a SUV, but are plenty useful for a significant portion of people who have one or two people using them. I think the yearly sales numbers for Mini are in the 50K range, so you're saying that beacuse not very many people that aren't aligned with your tastes are buying them, its a stupid car? If people only bought cars with utility in mind, we'd all have minivans.
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Nov 17, 2011 17:55
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DJ Commie posted:If people only bought cars with utility in mind, we'd all have minivans. Subaru Bajas. AWD? Check Turbo? Check Easy to get in? Check High enough off of the ground? Check Truck bed for the two times a year I buy topsoil from Home Depot? Check
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Nov 17, 2011 18:26
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I only really see Fiat 500s here on the highway, never in the city. I don't exactly understand why.
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Nov 17, 2011 18:39
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Phone posted:Subaru Bajas. Well I had never considered a Baja before but...well, I'm sold.
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Nov 17, 2011 19:25
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I haven't driven one, but my initial excitement for the 500 has waned substantially since I've read reports of the cheap feeling interior materials, super light steering and clutch, and gearbox feel. Honestly if I were in the market for a small hatchback right now I'd pick up a Mazda2 with no hesitation.
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Nov 17, 2011 19:41
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Well, the Abarth apparently makes you hallucinate hot chicks: http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/post_event/?sid=913526&pid=70554898&adid=248785754&channel=display
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Nov 17, 2011 20:00
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Previa_fun posted:I haven't driven one, but my initial excitement for the 500 has waned substantially since I've read reports of the cheap feeling interior materials, super light steering and clutch, and gearbox feel. I'm thinking the Abarth should fix most of the problems that you mentioned, but again, it does remain to be seen. also loving lol at the guy who can't fit groceries in it. How is that possible? I fit two normal sized suitcases and a retard sized briefcase in the one I borrowed without any issues. of course I also don't have any issues going to IKEA and cramming all the poo poo I buy in to a 128 so maybe I'm just not severely spatially disabled?
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Nov 17, 2011 20:17
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I still maintain that Fiat need to sling their AWD system under a 500. With a bit of poke in something so small it'd make for a very nippy beastie indeed. They can pretty much parts-bin 95% of what they'd need to be able to sell people a 3/4 scale Golf R32 or whatever.
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Nov 17, 2011 20:24
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DJ Commie posted:There are plenty of Minis around, they are incredibly popular. A Mini is a lot larger than the 500. Large enough to be useful.
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Nov 17, 2011 20:41
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Previa_fun posted:cheap feeling interior materials, super light steering and clutch, and gearbox feel. Cheap interiors are standard on cheap cars. It's a cheap car. I can see how people don't like the light steering because soul and passion and a sporty driving experience and all that. There's still plenty of feedback once you get a feel for it, though. But what's the problem with a light clutch action, do you really need to feel like you're doing leg presses every time you change gears? Gearbox feels fine to me, apart from not being very fun to downshift when it's cold, probably the synchros being sluggish or something. Just another excuse to work on your double clutched downshifts 
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Nov 17, 2011 20:57
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KozmoNaut posted:I can see how people don't like the light steering because soul and passion and a sporty driving experience and all that. There's still plenty of feedback once you get a feel for it, though. But what's the problem with a light clutch action, do you really need to feel like you're doing leg presses every time you change gears? The same reason people dislike light steering: no feedback. Trying to slip a clutch (or even just engage/disengage cleanly) when you can't feel it is frustrating at best.
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Nov 17, 2011 20:59
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:The same reason people dislike light steering: no feedback. Trying to slip a clutch (or even just engage/disengage cleanly) when you can't feel it is frustrating at best. Still, it doesn't seem to be a problem in my car (Panda, but same underpinnings), I have no problems finessing the clutch even though it's really light. You just have to calibrate yourself to it.
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Nov 17, 2011 21:33
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InitialDave posted:I still maintain that Fiat need to sling their AWD system under a 500. With a bit of poke in something so small it'd make for a very nippy beastie indeed. They can pretty much parts-bin 95% of what they'd need to be able to sell people a 3/4 scale Golf R32 or whatever. Kozmonaut already noted how little space there is for things in the Abarth (which for the US, is probably the only thing you'd want powering an AWD system). Putting a center diff up there seems like a killer packaging headache. Do the Panda and 500 have very different engine bays?
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Nov 17, 2011 21:40
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kimbo305 posted:Uh oh, prepare to get grilled by Throatwarbler. It's an Italian car assembled in Mexico by Chrysler on the old PT Cruiser line. What could possibly go wrong?  The seat adjustment lever in Edmunds' long term tester snapped clean off in less than a week.  http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2012-fiat-500-sport-broken-seat-adjuster.html  I think a bigger problem for FIAT dealers is that there will be no American Alfas until 2013. They're not going to make much money just having 1 niche car for 2 years.
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Nov 17, 2011 23:13
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^^^^That must have taken some abuse. The handle in my Panda is doing fine after three years of normal use.kimbo305 posted:Do the Panda and 500 have very different engine bays? The Pandas engine bay is probably ever so slightly bigger due to the 500 being more rounded everywhere, but it's a tiny difference.
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Nov 17, 2011 23:21
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I am starting to see more and more 500s in South Minneapolis, but people here tend to have eclectic tastes for cars. I once saw four different Isuzu Vehicrosses in one 20 minute drive.
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Nov 17, 2011 23:34
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I took a close look at the Fiat when I was recently in the market for a commuter car, because they are dropping the prices to crazy low levels. The MSRP on a 500 Pop is $15,500 + a $500 dest/delivery, so $16,000. I got an email from the local dealer that they were offering them at $13,990 including destination, so $2000 off MSRP, for cars that were not even on the lot (in transit vehicles). I liked the car, it was comfortable and nice. In the end, the deal breaker for me was that I wanted a car to spend 2+ hours per day in rush hour stop and go traffic, and for that I want an automatic transmission. They would not extend the steep price discount to anything except the basic Pop with no options, so I walked away, as I couldn't get a car that would actually meet my needs for less than $18k, which is far higher than their competition for basic commuter cars.
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Nov 18, 2011 04:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I lived in Back Bay for a while and I didn't even see that many Minis - mostly A4s, 3-series and 5-series, luxury SUVs etc. Not really sure where they would populate in Boston - Allston/Brighton? Cambridge? Somerville? I see a lot of MINI's (I have one) in the Norwood/Dedham/Foxboro (I'm in Norwood). Lots of other BMW's here since we have a big BMW dealership, plus lots of Hondas, Mazdas and Subarus.
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Nov 18, 2011 04:22
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KozmoNaut posted:^^^^That must have taken some abuse. The handle in my Panda is doing fine after three years of normal use. To be fair, the Edmunds long term test fleet takes some serious abuse. It's not exactly "normal use." Then again, I don't think any of their other cars have had a seat adjuster break.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:55
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The Locator posted:I took a close look at the Fiat when I was recently in the market for a commuter car, because they are dropping the prices to crazy low levels.
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Nov 18, 2011 08:37
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I went and saw a 500 the week they went on sale in my area a few months ago. We showed up at the "studio" that had it's grand opening that day. I went with a friend who as in the market for a small fun car. The studio was mostly empty with a few items strew about. They had 12 cars on the lot that day. The dealer said that this was what they had gotten from the initial run of cars. A couple things struck me. First, the materials just felt cheap. Some of the bits felt loose. It didn't feel very well made. Second, the car is really small on the inside. I drive a MINI and it's much much smaller. When I went for a test I mean, I really wanted to like the thing. I was thinking about replacing a MINI with a Abarth when it's time came. Maybe they'll get their act together.
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Nov 18, 2011 09:50
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Previa_fun posted:To be fair, the Edmunds long term test fleet takes some serious abuse. It's not exactly "normal use." Then again, I don't think any of their other cars have had a seat adjuster break. One issue might be that any way you slice it the seating position is a little strange, so if you're not used to the car and you get to the limit of adjustment you could keep trying and put a lot more strain on the mechanism. edit: inre the mini and interior space, I found that the front passenger and driver space on the Fiat was far superior but the rear passenger space is pretty much a joke.
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Nov 18, 2011 12:23
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I went to the LA Autoshow today and went straight for the Fiat stand. The Abarth area.  Couple shots of one in Grigio, which isn't in any of the press shots that I've seen. This is the color I'd get, although with red stripes.    White looks great too, but thinking about keeping those wheels clean makes me want to cry.  Red leather interior. Note that the seat height lever is already broken.  The seats and steering wheel make it a way nicer place to be than a standard 500.  Intercooler on either side at the front.  Not vents at the back- they are blocked off.  Engine cutaway. Note Chrysler stamping on the right side of the head, not that it matters.   Seeing it in person didn't make me want it any less. The only thing I'm not sold on is the driving position. It seemed a bit better than a standard 500 but the seat still needs to go a little lower and the clutch pedal needs about 1.5" less travel. Otherwise I end up pulling my foot back way more than is natural for me.
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Nov 20, 2011 06:53
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electronically controlled valvetrain  I thought the MultiAirs were GDI too. Welp.
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Nov 20, 2011 07:03
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I was behind one of these at a drive thru in my 75 fiat spider, and I honked my squeaky horn and waved furiously, but I think the guy ahead of me just thought I was an enormous weirdo.
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Nov 20, 2011 13:39
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Freedom
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Sten Freak posted:Well, the Abarth apparently makes you hallucinate hot chicks: I have to be honest, if I bought an Abarth I'd probably get the scorpion tattooed like the model in the commercial. Yes I know it's a fake tat.
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Nov 20, 2011 19:33
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:The same reason people dislike light steering: no feedback. Trying to slip a clutch (or even just engage/disengage cleanly) when you can't feel it is frustrating at best. Combine a light clutch with DBW throttle and it becomes nearly impossible to get a good feel for it. I still have trouble with smooth shifts in my 330i. Light steering I actually like though, as long as it gives good road feedback. It just makes the car feel so much more tossable.
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Nov 21, 2011 00:28
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Crustashio posted:Combine a light clutch with DBW throttle and it becomes nearly impossible to get a good feel for it. I still have trouble with smooth shifts in my 330i. There is nothing inherently wrong with DBW. There are some really dull/laggy implementations on the market (VW,  ), but there are some that are very good.
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Nov 21, 2011 01:50
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I really like the Abarth. But I am holding out for the Giulietta to arrive here in a few years. Give me a Cloverleaf in Profondo Blue with the red leather interior and I'll be a happy happy man.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:07
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I rented a 500 on a trip to LA last weekend and I was pleasantly surprised. It looked incredibly small from the outside but we fit 3 people 5'9" and above in the car with no issues. My friend (who is 5'10") sat in the back on a 2 hour drive on the 405 with its lovely concrete and had no complaints. And it was amazing fun on a hill climb into the mountains, even with the automatic. It had some trouble accelerating if I didn't force a downshift, but the ability to go from Orange County to the valley on 1/8th of a tank on the highway and then tear up a mountain side all in the same car was pretty great. I imagine the manual Abarth would be amazing and very tempting, depending on the price point.
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Dec 8, 2011 23:09
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Admiral Snuggles posted:I was behind one of these at a drive thru in my 75 fiat spider, and I honked my squeaky horn and waved furiously, but I think the guy ahead of me just thought I was an enormous weirdo. Do people with handbags from the same designer wave to each other?
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Dec 9, 2011 11:53
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VideoTapir posted:Do people with handbags from the same designer wave to each other? When I'm in my Corvette, I'd say 90% of other Corvettes that pass me or I pass wave or nod. In parking lots they even go so far to speak words. *gasp* If the hand bag were some kind of niche hand bag, then yes, I imagine they would.
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Dec 10, 2011 00:00
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Abarth 500 feature on Jay Leno's Garage: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/2012-fiat-500-abarth/1371751/
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Dec 10, 2011 11:49
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Hashal posted:When I'm in my Corvette, I'd say 90% of other Corvettes that pass me or I pass wave or nod. In parking lots they even go so far to speak words. *gasp* I'm suggesting that the car is a fashion accessory to a lot of people. As far as I know, two people using Macs aren't much more likely than anyone else to strike up a conversation about it if they see one another. Windows users won't, because for most of them it's an appliance, and they didn't give any shits about the OS. Linux (or anything weirder) is a conversation starter. People buying 500s because they're "cute" aren't going to know WTF about enthusiasts who like its dynamics. Most Corvette buyers have at least SOME appreciation of that, or else they'd be buying something softer. Windows = appliance cars...Camrys and such. Linux = enthusiast-only cars. Sports cars, rotaries, serious off-roaders, Saabs and such. Mac = a mix of enthusiasts and "it's cute!" buyers. The latter will not understand the former.
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Dec 10, 2011 13:31
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