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Chernabog posted:Just because you don't work in a game you like it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy your job anyway. My last job was basically a farmville with fairies type of game and I still enjoyed working on it even though I would never play that in my spare time if I hadn't worked on it. Does anyone find that working on games that they would play in their spare time sort of takes the fun out of the game? I don't work in the game's industry, I'm just curious. I assume that being involved in testing something every day could get you pretty sick of it when the release rolls around.
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Nov 18, 2011 17:31
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Chalks posted:Does anyone find that working on games that they would play in their spare time sort of takes the fun out of the game? I don't work in the game's industry, I'm just curious. I assume that being involved in testing something every day could get you pretty sick of it when the release rolls around. This is exact reason I would never pursue a job at Valve or Blizzard. I enjoy their games immensely and working on them would ruin it. It's a weird thing... I will absolutely play the multiplayer component of our game when it comes out, but I'll likely never touch the single player.
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Nov 18, 2011 17:34
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I probably wouldn't mind. I guess it is a personal thing.
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Nov 18, 2011 17:36
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I wouldn't mind, because there are a million fantastic games out there. Not enjoying one of them as much at release every few years because I've already played portions of it to death and worked on it and helped craft this fantastic, fun experience is really a great problem to have. I enjoy making games as much as I enjoy playing them, so the notion of avoiding one pleasure for the other seems awkward to me. And I stilled enjoyed the hell out of RFG when it came out, despite having literally spent dozens of hours smashing up the 900 iterations of the tutorial level with all the weapons while testing poo poo, etc. If I was doing QA, I'm sure it'd be different - I don't know if after doing multiple crit paths, speed runs, and rubbing my face all over a level for 6 months that I'd be interested. But on the development side, you don't really get the full experience of the game unless you actively seek it out.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:06
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Sigma-X posted:If I was doing QA, I'm sure it'd be different - I don't know if after doing multiple crit paths, speed runs, and rubbing my face all over a level for 6 months that I'd be interested. But on the development side, you don't really get the full experience of the game unless you actively seek it out. ... but you will nitpick the crap out of it, and see all the errors that no one else notices, and possibly irritate your friends with exasperated "bu-but you didn't see that?! OMG SO BAD!" comments.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:11
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Sigma-X posted:But on the development side, you don't really get the full experience of the game unless you actively seek it out. (If you're a designer and you haven't played the whole game then boo to you.)
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Nov 18, 2011 18:15
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Changing subjects, I want to make some new materials for my animation reel since it is lacking 3D stuff. What would be some good things to have? Action shots? Cycles? Acting shots? Right now the bulk of it is a whole bunch of 2D Flash walk cycles and a couple of shots from a really old 3D project that I want to replace with something better. Also, is it acceptable to present everything in a simple environment with a free generic rig? I want to start looking for 3D jobs ASAP so I don't want to spend hours modeling and rigging if I can avoid it.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:58
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Spent a small fortune going on an assessment day yesterday, got a rejection at 10am this morning. I have been unemployed 10 months now and things only seem to get worse. Nothing I do or have ever done seems to make the slightest difference, whilst idiots come straight off bullshit degrees into design, and from QA to Production in months. This is bullshit, and I don't want to play any more. I may as well be dead, the life I lead.
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Nov 18, 2011 19:00
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Sigma-X posted:There is blind optimism but the problem there is blind, not optimism. I'm totally stealing this to hammer into my students, thanks. And I think that list is a little  for its own good. All of those things can happen sometimes, yes, but not all at once. And I'd say the majority of games I've worked on have been ones I believed in and enjoyed, the shovelware games have been by far the exception and not the rule.
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Nov 18, 2011 19:01
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That list is basically to scare off newbs. It's basically NO poo poo. I've seen that list like multiple times each time a site covers about videogame jobs. I have a personal question, how many times have people run into those type of people in their jobs? The ones who are like basically what list is trying to scare off. I've only met one, and that person ended up hating videogames.
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Nov 18, 2011 19:30
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Chalks posted:Does anyone find that working on games that they would play in their spare time sort of takes the fun out of the game? That said I don't play Point and click adventures and I'm working on a Naked Gun point and click right now, just me and some jerk programmer  I still throw myself into games when I get home and have a far greater respect for games now I'm "in" so to speak. Assassin's Creed in general has blown my mind several times over with the love gone into it.Chernabog posted:Also, is it acceptable to present everything in a simple environment with a free generic rig? I want to start looking for 3D jobs ASAP so I don't want to spend hours modeling and rigging if I can avoid it. Shindragon posted:I have a personal question, how many times have people run into those type of people in their jobs? The ones who are like basically what list is trying to scare off. I've only met one, and that person ended up hating videogames. All the stuff in that list desperately needs to be said over and over and over since everybody already knows the good parts to game dev and the stereotypes aren't going away any time soon. GeeCee fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 20:02
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Shalinor posted:... but you will nitpick the crap out of it, and see all the errors that no one else notices, and possibly irritate your friends with exasperated "bu-but you didn't see that?! OMG SO BAD!" comments. Oh no. I've already started doing this lately. 
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Nov 18, 2011 20:09
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BizarroAzrael posted:Spent a small fortune going on an assessment day yesterday, got a rejection at 10am this morning. I have been unemployed 10 months now and things only seem to get worse. Nothing I do or have ever done seems to make the slightest difference, whilst idiots come straight off bullshit degrees into design, and from QA to Production in months. Stand the gently caress up and keep going. It will happen. Also, go for mobile/iOs studios. Our tiny studio has taken on four non-experienced scummy grads in the past three months including me and mobile gaming is a huge growth sector in the UK right now and is in my eyes the best chance for graduates at the moment.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:12
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Dinurth posted:This is exact reason I would never pursue a job at Valve or Blizzard. I enjoy their games immensely and working on them would ruin it. Hell no. I would find it much more satisfying to go through the creation process with a team of smart people over a year or two and solve challenges and create something I'm proud of than to just play it in my free time for a day or two. I can always enjoy another company's game.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:15
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Shalinor posted:... but you will nitpick the crap out of it, and see all the errors that no one else notices, and possibly irritate your friends with exasperated "bu-but you didn't see that?! OMG SO BAD!" comments. Of course, I think the opposite's true too: It's extremely easy to lose perspective if you're intricately familiar with a project and you really do need some unfamiliar outside eyes telling you that the thing you think is easy to understand because you've been working on it for 4 months is actually pretty cryptic and not terribly fun.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:22
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Vino posted:Hell no. I would find it much more satisfying to go through the creation process with a team of smart people over a year or two and solve challenges and create something I'm proud of than to just play it in my free time for a day or two. I can always enjoy another company's game. I can't imagine Blizzard has much of a challenge for anything. They have all the time and money in the world. Their games are for the most part already decided, you'd just be making the next iteration. Not so say that wouldn't be great experience, but there is great experience to be had everywhere. I'd hate to ruin one of my all time favorite series (diablo) by working on it for 6 years and literally made decisions about what's in the game. /ruined For me part of the joy of a great game is the ability to lose yourself in it, you can't do that with a game you work on. VV Didn't realize it was a "debate", I thought people were just expressing opinions? Dinurth fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 20:23
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Yeah, I don't see things that way at all. As someone above said, it's personal, so the debate is kind of silly.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:30
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Aliginge posted:Time is cheap when you haven't got that job yet. Every aspect of the showpieces you are making is selling all of your skills and going that extra mile will help put you above the five hundred other guys applying for the same job. Yeah, I agree with this. I didn't mean it in a "I want to do the least amount of work possible" way. I just want to find something ASAP.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:39
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BizarroAzrael posted:Spent a small fortune going on an assessment day yesterday, got a rejection at 10am this morning. I have been unemployed 10 months now and things only seem to get worse. Nothing I do or have ever done seems to make the slightest difference, whilst idiots come straight off bullshit degrees into design, and from QA to Production in months. A) Why did you spend a small fortune? Did they not reimburse or pay to bring you in? B) Keep going, if it was easy to get into the industry, everyone would. The person who posted about trying iOS/Mobile/Facebook/whatever is right. Hell, I worked my rear end off for the last six years to go from Programmer to Project Manager in the Simulation / Serious Game industry and it has finally paid off to go be a Producer at a game company. But, please if your really mean that you may as well be dead, please please please talk to someone. Heck, if you want you can e-mail me at pdriggett@gmail.com and we can chat. You can do it, it may take a long time, but you can do it.
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Nov 18, 2011 21:14
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BizarroAzrael posted:Spent a small fortune going on an assessment day yesterday, got a rejection at 10am this morning. I have been unemployed 10 months now and things only seem to get worse. Nothing I do or have ever done seems to make the slightest difference, whilst idiots come straight off bullshit degrees into design, and from QA to Production in months. You keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. If you're being knocked down consistently? Something is wrong. Interpersonal skills? Lack of experience, or incorrect sorts of experience? Needing to diversify your talents? No idea, but there are a hell of a lot of things you could be doing beyond "apply to business's one QA-related position -> pitch a fit when you get denied." The industry in your area right now is changing, with studios rapidly shifting to being smaller and mobile focused. Have you considered that your talent base is a poor fit for that market, and that perhaps it is time to try other career paths within games outside of the narrow band you qualify for? For instance: you're taking a cheap shot at Designers getting in via bullshit degrees? Great, try that. Throw up your design portfolio, we'll critique it, and you can try for design or technical design work.
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Nov 18, 2011 21:19
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Aliginge posted:That said I don't play Point and click adventures and I'm working on a Naked Gun point and click right now, just me and some jerk programmer I play all the games I make a lot during development, but other than my first job and the current crop of stuff we're working on I've never really made anything I'd buy. I'd buy these point and click games, though. And Warheads. I should totally play the latest build of Warheads. It feels good to be making real games and not just word/logic puzzle compilations! At home I'm the same as you, Aliginge. I play the poo poo out of big budget games (goddamn I've put 132 hours into Dark Souls now) but I don't think I'd ever like to work on one. I like completely owning a project  Except now I have prima donna artists in the studio to deal with, I miss outsourcing  Edit in case it's not clear: this post contains hyperbole and jokes. Akuma fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 21:39
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Chalks posted:Does anyone find that working on games that they would play in their spare time sort of takes the fun out of the game? I don't work in the game's industry, I'm just curious. I assume that being involved in testing something every day could get you pretty sick of it when the release rolls around. Nope. You'll go through peaks and valleys of engagement, but at the core if the thing you're making ever isn't fun to play, then your game just isn't fun period and you need to figure out why. quote:... but you will nitpick the crap out of it, and see all the errors that no one else notices, and possibly irritate your friends with exasperated "bu-but you didn't see that?! OMG SO BAD!" comments. This is absolutely true though. You will see all of the warts and you will feel them in your soul. Keep a notebook or an iPad or an open text file with you at all times when playing a game (any game) and write down the problems. Then later, go back and figure out the fixes to those problems and what they would cost in terms of time/man hours/ripple effects on other game systems. Or, if it's really easy, just go fix it so it gets picked up in the next patch. Bugging your friends (unless they're also on the team making the game) is just counterproductive and makes their experience worse. :P That problem comes with the territory of being a game designer though - once you've started thinking about games in those terms and looked behind the curtain, you can't turn that off ever. The worst part is, as you learn more about how to build games you see more stuff. It happened recently for me when I learned some level design and spawning techniques (I'm systems designer normally so typically my nose is buried six-feet deep in a spreadsheet or I'm attacking a training dummy to see if tweaks I've made are correct) and then played Modern Warfare 3. Seeing the meticulous way in which their level design and your NPC companions carefully herd you through the level and ensure that you're looking directly at every epic moment as it happens really does break the immersion a little, even if I can admire the impeccable craftsmanship required to do it.
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Nov 18, 2011 21:51
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Akuma posted:I don't think you've ever actually played a build of the game!
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Nov 18, 2011 21:58
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FreakyZoid posted:Wha...? This is a joke, right? I've dabbled with it occasionally but I'm just not really into adventure games. I'll be giving it a stab when it's done though, it is still cool to see your own art doing it's thing in-game. It's worth remembering that our emotional investment into 3-4 month projects may not be as consuming as games taking 2 years to make. Akuma may disagree  Akuma posted:Except now I have prima donna artists in the studio to deal with, I miss outsourcing 
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Nov 18, 2011 23:59
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Akuma posted:I should totally play the latest build of Warheads. This better not be one of those jokes, guy. Especially now that it has a (badly written) tutorial level that I spent most of today on.
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Nov 19, 2011 00:26
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Aliginge posted:I'll be giving it a stab when it's done though, it is still cool to see your own art doing it's thing in-game. I cant work with "don't play the game" people. They drive me mental.
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Nov 19, 2011 09:00
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That's a little unfair don't you think? Any way I try to answer that, I'm made to look bad at my job.
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Nov 19, 2011 13:10
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FreakyZoid posted:So you don't think it's worth an artist checking that all of their own art is being displayed properly? Or that you might spot extra bits that look fine in the assets, but look really drab and empty? Or just extra visual flourishes that would really help it shine? I can't work with people who make sweeping unfounded assumptions about people or their work ethic or professionalism based on a misinterpreted statement They drive me mental.Outside of design, "play" does not mean "review and test my work." Don't treat it as such. No one has said that they never look at the game. Or that they don't do walkthroughs, art reviews, etc. But if I didn't work on level 8 I'm too busy working on level 6 to give a gently caress about what level 8 looks like right now. If I make the laser rifle I do not need to spend 8 hours crit-pathing the game to know that it works correctly. If I did the pistol-whip animation I don't need to test the piledriver animation again. I don't need to play the first three levels when I'm testing the cutscene scripting for level 4. Get over yourself. AAA games are too big and complex to regularly "play" for long periods of time if you're an artist - there is very little art-wise to gain from beating level 6. And most of your arguments I would imagine do not apply to a game of such small scope as the one Ali is working on. I'm pretty sure the 2d environment is not going to wildly change between photoshop and the dev kit such that he needs to solve some puzzles he's solved before to make sure the blues are still blue.
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Nov 19, 2011 14:42
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Welp, one of my groomsmen and former colleagues is looking at a publishing deal for his third game. Big congrats to him, he deserves it. Here's his previous work: http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Cute-Things-Dying-Violently/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258550936
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Nov 19, 2011 15:51
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I know someone wanted to know when our website came online and it finally has. Rather spiffy it is to http://www.fullfat.com/
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Nov 19, 2011 21:01
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Crikey, how many goons are from Fullfat and Razorback? I ask because our newest artist has worked at both of those studios. She has way more experience than I do though.
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Nov 19, 2011 21:05
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Freelancepolice posted:I know someone wanted to know when our website came online and it finally has. About time Thanks for letting me know. No job descriptions but may apply for the Test Engineer role depending on the salary. I would definitely be interested in the Production Planner role but as I have never used any of the methodologies I know (PRINCE2 and Scrum) in my role I think I'd come up short. Add job descriptions ;-) Thanks again!
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Nov 19, 2011 23:02
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I'm going to confess to being really confused about when I want to start applying to game jobs as a graduating senior. I know that most tech jobs (Google, etc.) want you to apply around now, but I remember talking to a few companies at my university's career fair and they said that in general their HR companies wouldn't look at resumes until two months before my graduation date. Does anyone have a bit more info so I don't end up sleeping on a friend's couch for two months post-graduation?
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Nov 20, 2011 04:48
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It's different company by company. Some studios are a week from resume to interview to offer, whereas I think the leadtime on Blizzard is now around six months. One HR friend told me stories of him getting his recommendations all put together after two weeks, submitting them to the leads who would make the next decision, and not hearing from them for six weeks. So if you call or e-mail HR after they seemingly dropped off the face of the earth, there's a not-insignificant chance that it's just completely out of their hands at that point and there's literally nothing for them to tell you.
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Nov 20, 2011 05:27
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FreakyZoid posted:So you don't think it's worth an artist checking that all of their own art is being displayed properly? Or that you might spot extra bits that look fine in the assets, but look really drab and empty? Or just extra visual flourishes that would really help it shine? He's also working on other games here and there at the same time. The way we work isn't going to line up with everyone else's experiences.
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Nov 20, 2011 19:27
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GetWellGamers posted:It's different company by company. Some studios are a week from resume to interview to offer, whereas I think the leadtime on Blizzard is now around six months. One HR friend told me stories of him getting his recommendations all put together after two weeks, submitting them to the leads who would make the next decision, and not hearing from them for six weeks. So if you call or e-mail HR after they seemingly dropped off the face of the earth, there's a not-insignificant chance that it's just completely out of their hands at that point and there's literally nothing for them to tell you. This is extremely true. I remember one year I applied for a summer internship at Blizzard, and by the time their response email arrived, so much time had passed that I was reading it at my desk at the summer job I'd already started somewhere else. To clarify and emphasize, the process was: 1. Apply to Blizzard 2. Apply to Company #2 (and several others but that's not relevant) 3. Receive response from Company #2 4. Have phone interview with company #2 5. Have onsite interview with company #2 6. Receive offer from company #2 7. After appropriate amount of time mulling it over, accept offer with company #2 8. Finish school year 9. Begin summer job with Company #2 10. Receive response from Blizzard In the case of Blizzard and some other companies (notably Google, to give a non-games example) they're free to pull stuff like this because they're famous and beloved enough that there's actually a good chance people will cancel prior plans for the chance to work for them, but I've experienced smaller companies being slow with interviews / responses too, because they won't actually have the money to hire you until another three months after you interview. Conversely, Turbine scheduled my phone interview for something like a week after I applied, told me they wanted an onsite something like an hour after that was finished, and told me I was hired before I'd even arrived home from the onsite. You really can't tell what's going on in those offices until you're inside. e: To give more of a direct response to the original post: Yeah, start applying now. Maybe some of the companies work more short-term, but you don't want to have to rely on that since some of them definitely don't. No harm in getting your foot in the door early anyway.
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Nov 20, 2011 19:46
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My friend: 1. Apply to Blizzard 2. Apply to job #2 3. Get job at #2 and stay there for a few months 4. Receive offer from Blizzard 5. Refuse offer because Blizzard throws out lowball offers to really talented people. 6. Stay at job #2 Blizzard pisses me off the more I hear experiences about working there the less I actually want to ever work there. Right now Irrational is my dream studio because it's so close to my family and they are working on a badass project.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:28
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Blizzard's job application process is the most ridiculously slow of any I've ever encountered. I don't think it's anything to do with the fact that they get enough applicants that they can pick and choose, because I've been through the process with some other big names in the industry (that can definitely just pick and choose), and their processes were always relatively quick and efficient. That said, I guess running an MMO, and having to have an operations side of the business, in addition to development, probably doesn't help matters. Chalks posted:Does anyone find that working on games that they would play in their spare time sort of takes the fun out of the game? No. Generally when I'm working on a game, I get so into it, that I still want to play it in my spare time when it comes out. I guess I've been quite lucky though, in that out of all the games I've worked on, there's only one I didn't like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-uVA7iAgU (yes they made a sequel) All the others, even though they're not all perfect, and I can certainly see the flaws in them, I still want to play them. Nowadays, when looking for work, I always try to find a project where, even if it's not a genre I normally play, or a series that I'm already a fan of, I can understand why it's fun, and can see my tastes changing enough that I'd end up getting hooked on it eventually. The Oid fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Nov 20, 2011 |
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Nov 20, 2011 23:51
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Some of you may have heard about the Horde 4 Charity event that ran this weekend. Well I was part of that. We played Gears of War 3 Horde mode on insane for 48 hours straight. We all want to die now.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:53
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Thanks for all the replies! I have heard three separate friends warn me about Blizzard so I'll think hard about working there if I get accepted (if I get accepted ) but I'll work on putting my submission material together now.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:57
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