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Nessa posted:I think that really just depends on how you play. I never finished Yukari's link, so Akihiko and Junpei felt like more important characters to me. I never finished Mitsuru either cause hers is just a pain to finish. I did finish Yukari's link, and she was a pretty major character to me (mostly for plot reasons; not really her social link.) This is not a good thing, I utterly despised her. She just came off as being needlessly mean.
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Nov 19, 2011 06:41
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King of Solomon posted:I did finish Yukari's link, and she was a pretty major character to me (mostly for plot reasons; not really her social link.) This is not a good thing, I utterly despised her. She just came off as being needlessly mean. Well, I didn't hate her, but I didn't love her either. Then again, I played P3P as a girl, so she'd stick up for you against Junpei at the beginning of the game and you'd go shopping together when she wasn't acting like a damsel in distress. She was pretty needlessly mean to Junpei though. Junpei was my buddy. In rough order from best liked to least liked characters in Persona 3 and 4, I'd have to say: Naoto Akihiko Kanji Junpei Chie Shinjiro Teddy Koromaru Fuuka Aigis Rise Yukari Mitsuru Ken Yukiko Yosuke
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Nov 19, 2011 07:12
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Nessa posted:Well, I didn't hate her, but I didn't love her either. Then again, I played P3P as a girl, so she'd stick up for you against Junpei at the beginning of the game and you'd go shopping together when she wasn't acting like a damsel in distress. She was pretty needlessly mean to Junpei though. Junpei was my buddy. The lovely exposition fairy was your favorite character?  And yea Yukari always came off as a bitch for no reason, I dropped her as soon as I got another healer, good thing P3 has so many guys with healing spells plus Ken was a better healer anyway and got the good poo poo earlier.
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Nov 19, 2011 17:16
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I thought Yukari was fine, until I played FES.
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Nov 19, 2011 17:25
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King of Solomon posted:I did finish Yukari's link, and she was a pretty major character to me (mostly for plot reasons; not really her social link.) This is not a good thing, I utterly despised her. She just came off as being needlessly mean. I felt like in the main game, Yukari was alright. Yeah, she was horrendously mean to Junpei at some particular key (and inappropriate) moments, but she never really ventured that far beyond the "joking around" phase of things. Yukari in The Answer, on the other hand... Yeah, there was no excuse for that one.
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Nov 19, 2011 17:27
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Nighteyedie posted:I thought Yukari was fine, until I played FES.
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Nov 19, 2011 17:51
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MechaX posted:Yukari in The Answer, on the other hand... Yeah, there was no excuse for that one. I didn't play The Answer, can you give me a quick summary on what she did that was so bad?
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Nov 19, 2011 17:57
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I played it and didn't finish it because it got so boring can someone spoil all of it 
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Nov 19, 2011 18:34
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Alteisen posted:The lovely exposition fairy was your favorite character? I love Naoto. I think she's adorable, and I generally love detective characters. I want to see her go on detective adventures with Kanji as a sidekick and Chie as back-up. 
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Nov 19, 2011 19:30
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I didn't play The Answer, can you give me a quick summary on what she did that was so bad? I'll try to give a heavily abridged version, but it has some significant spoilers for the Answer. After 10 or so hours of pure dungeon crawling, the cast finds out that they have the choice to essentially go back in time (each member has a "key" and when all the keys are aligned, they can go back to a certain time period). Yukari, seemingly having a bit of a thing for the MC, wants everybody to go back in time to fight Nyx again and potentially save the MC. Akihiko and Ken don't think this is a good idea and Yukari and Akihiko start getting into a really heated argument. Junpei chimes in and is like "I see what you're saying, but what if we go back and lose this time?" Yukari is especially mean to Junpei at this point, goes off a little bit on Akihiko and suggests that the party actually fight each other tournament style to decide who gets the keys. Mitsuru pairs up with Yukari simply because they're friends, Ken and Aki are buddy buddy, Aigis stays with her robot sister (long story on this one but just take my word for it), and Junpei pairs with Koromaru. After Aigis beats up the three groups and Aigis gets the completed key, Yukari is literally like "gimme that key!", tries to snatch it from Aigis insinuating that Aigis still doesn't really deserve the key because Yukari seems to believe that she loves the MC the most (just not in so many words), but she eventually breaks down over it. It may not sound too bad from the summary, but it is more Yukari's actual dialogue and voice direction that really drives the point home that she's a little bit off-kilter in this part of The Answer.
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Nov 19, 2011 19:37
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Nessa posted:I love Naoto. I think she's adorable, and I generally love detective characters. I want to see her go on detective adventures with Kanji as a sidekick and Chie as back-up. As long as she was the murder victim at the end. P4 is my fave game of the series, above Nocturne for me but when she shows up it just drags, makes me wish you could keep going even if you didn't rescue somebody. I just don't get it why everyone turns into gibbering retards and its just constant fawning over her, oh naoto you're so smart, the game tries so desperately to make me like her, then she tells me all events that have occurred up until that point on 3 separate occasions. Aigis was lovely to but she was relatively quiet at least so I didn't dislike her so much. Not saying you're wrong for liking her off course, just staying my opinion of why I dislike her. Alteisen fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 19, 2011 |
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Nov 19, 2011 19:59
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I still liked Yukari even after playing through the Answer. Yes, she was a bitch and things would have gone a lot more smoothly without some of the stunts she pulled, but I can understand why she'd be off-kilter in a situation like that. Then again, I usually like the mage-type characters. I'll put up with a lot for full-party healing and Ma-dyne spells.
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Nov 20, 2011 02:57
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gently caress, The Answer is one more reason why I like Yukari so much. She's really deep down in the stages of grief, so far down that no one else is able to help her. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. She starts off in the Answer refusing to even acknowledge anything with the MC's death, avoiding doing anything that might remind her of him. I believe she even skipped his funeral in her contemplation. The anger comes throughout the Answer, constantly lashing out at everyone who disagrees with her line of thought. She irrationally wants to take on Nyx again, even if they wouldn't have a chance of victory, just so she could potentially rescue the MC. When she loses against Aigis, she still attempts to have things her way by trying to take the key anyway. When she realizes she can't do anything, she finally just slumps down in anxiety and pours her soul out to everyone. It's only at the end of the Answer that she can finally accept the main character's death for what it was and move on with her life, becoming an even better friend to Aigis in the process. Honestly, I feel like Yukari should be the real star of the Answer. Everyone goes through this poo poo in their lives at some point or another.
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Nov 20, 2011 03:12
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The Grimace posted:gently caress, The Answer is one more reason why I like Yukari so much. She's really deep down in the stages of grief, so far down that no one else is able to help her. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. She starts off in the Answer refusing to even acknowledge anything with the MC's death, avoiding doing anything that might remind her of him. I believe she even skipped his funeral in her contemplation. The anger comes throughout the Answer, constantly lashing out at everyone who disagrees with her line of thought. She irrationally wants to take on Nyx again, even if they wouldn't have a chance of victory, just so she could potentially rescue the MC. When she loses against Aigis, she still attempts to have things her way by trying to take the key anyway. When she realizes she can't do anything, she finally just slumps down in anxiety and pours her soul out to everyone. It's only at the end of the Answer that she can finally accept the main character's death for what it was and move on with her life, becoming an even better friend to Aigis in the process. Honestly, I feel like Yukari should be the real star of the Answer. Everyone goes through this poo poo in their lives at some point or another. Agreed. Her motivations make the sense. She's irrational, but considering the circumstances, I'd say she has a right to be. If anything, The Answer would be much better than it is if they had delved more indepth into how everyone coped with P3's ending, instead of being Aigis's story.
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Nov 20, 2011 12:52
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It's always weird to me when people hate characters for having emotions, or flaws.
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Nov 20, 2011 14:48
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Wendell posted:It's always weird to me when people hate characters for having emotions, or flaws. Yeah, me too. There's a tendency to condense character, conditions, and a whole spectrum of emotions and reactions, into one word descriptors. "Angst", "Sperg", etc. It's kind of frustrating when you want a critical description of a character and it sometimes gets dumbed down to one nondescript term. I really appreciate the spoilers/summaries also though, I never got around to playing The Answer too.
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Nov 20, 2011 15:20
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Wendell posted:It's always weird to me when people hate characters for having emotions, or flaws. Acknowledging that a character is well-written and actually liking said character's personality are two different things. I will admit that Yukari does go through some pretty strong character development in The Answer. That's a good thing, and it shows that she's a fallible human being (which is a far cry from the type of character archetypes we would see from 99% of every other JRPG ever). With that said, I still personally agreed with hardly anything Yukari did, even if I can understand why she did it. She might be a well-written bitch to me, but she's still a bitch (okay, bad way of phrasing it, but you get my point).
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Nov 20, 2011 15:25
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There's a level beyond a charcter being merely 'flawed' at which point they become annoying to sit through. This level tends to be brought even lower in games because the 'flaws' tend to directly lead to problems that you, playing the game, have to solve. And if the gameplay itself isn't particularly good (The Answer fits that bill), that just makes the problem worse.
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Nov 20, 2011 15:46
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Nessa posted:I love Naoto. I think she's adorable, and I generally love detective characters. I want to see her go on detective adventures with Kanji as a sidekick and Chie as back-up. If you talk to her in dungeons it's kinda inferred she doesn't like or at least doesn't respect Kanji very much. Personally I don't like her because not only does she turn the style from "group of friends stumbling through a murder story but getting closer and closer" to "Naoto takes total control of the investigation but is kind enough to pretend that you have some agency" and the game takes every possible opportunity to shove how awesome it thinks she is down the player's throat. She's also an uptight stick in the mud. I think she's probably my second least favorite character besides Ken including P1/2. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Nov 20, 2011 |
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Nov 20, 2011 19:39
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Naoto is not only an unbearably bad character, she is also the most pandering, fanservicey character in... hell, all of SMT.
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Nov 20, 2011 19:48
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I don't like Naoto, but I think Aigis blows her out of the park in that department.
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Nov 20, 2011 20:06
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Technique posted:Naoto is not only an unbearably bad character, she is also the most pandering, fanservicey character in... hell, all of SMT. Ah, you must be unfamiliar with Metis. You are very fortunate. Just to be safe: There are Persona 3 spoilers on that page, for anyone who hasn't played/finished it.
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Nov 20, 2011 20:13
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I never really bothered with the Answer. What makes Metis so bad?
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Nov 20, 2011 20:14
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MechaX posted:Acknowledging that a character is well-written and actually liking said character's personality are two different things. exactly. I recognize that Yosuke is a well written character with depth and flaws and all that, but that doesn't make me hate him any less.
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Nov 20, 2011 20:22
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Radish posted:I never really bothered with the Answer. What makes Metis so bad? You know how sometimes in anime/jrpgs sibling relationships sometimes come off as kind of creepy? Metis was basically that but ramped up.
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Nov 20, 2011 20:24
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Metis was bad too, but nowhere near as creepy as Naoto, because Metis was never useful at all and you learned to just filter her out.
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Nov 20, 2011 22:21
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Radish posted:I never really bothered with the Answer. What makes Metis so bad? For me, Metis was just kinda "blah". She has the typical protective big sibling complex that Japanese story-writers seem to love, but that usually goes by unnoticed by the actual cast. Metis is Exposition-n-Info-Dump Machine 3000, however. With that said, she is a pretty useful party member gameplay-wise; she has no real weaknesses and gets the Super Mode that Aigis had in normal P3.
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Nov 20, 2011 22:53
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Technique posted:Naoto is not only an unbearably bad character, she is also the most pandering, fanservicey character in... hell, all of SMT. What do you mean by this? I skimmed over her social link because she didn't seem interesting so I might have missed out on something, but beyond hinting at her secretly being well endowed there didn't seem to be anything egregious.
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Nov 20, 2011 22:56
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Rinkles posted:What do you mean by this? I skimmed over her social link because she didn't seem interesting so I might have missed out on something, but beyond hinting at her secretly being well endowed there didn't seem to be anything egregious. She was basically put in the game for all the people who love traps or whatever, and then just to make it even creepier you can tell her to put on a school uniform.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:01
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Technique posted:She was basically put in the game for all the people who love traps or whatever, and then just to make it even creepier you can tell her to put on a school uniform. I didn't even like Naoto but your first point is pretty off. She was pretty much a textbook example of a play on the extremely popular "boy genius detective" trope that Japan is absolutely bonkers about (same thing with Kanji and the hardened badass delinquent trope) Her dressing like a guy wasn't really ever presented as "sexy" or sexual. The second point I won't touch though because I thought that was pretty off too.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:11
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Technique posted:She was basically put in the game for all the people who love traps or whatever, and then just to make it even creepier you can tell her to put on a school uniform. I'm usually fairly cynical when it comes to these things, but I don't think her character was any less a standard anime archetype than most of the other characters and there wasn't anything blatantly exploitative about her. If anything Atlus tends to play around and subvert those tropes. Everything's fetishized by someone or another, and even if that's a criteria in Atlus' character design process, I didn't find anything much about her character to be objectionable. Well beyond her being a tad bit boring.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:23
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Aren't traps people who look really girly but are actually men? Naoto seems like the complete opposite of that. I just thought they put her there cause clearly we're all morons, gotta know what happened in the story again and again and again for our short attention spans. The fact that she filled a fetish quota was just a bonus for Atlus.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:32
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I felt like Naoto fit quite nicely into the character theme of reversing popular Japanese TV tropes and conceptions in P4. Plus, her critical hits in battle were badass as gently caress.
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Nov 20, 2011 23:38
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Most of the game you have characters thinking through the clues and coming to different conclusions, some of them closer to the mark than others but it felt like you were zeroing in on the answer. Once Naoto joins, suddenly she knows almost everything and all plans go through her first. For me she really ruins the mood and is also a huge bummer. If she had joined the Investigation Team earlier she's be that person in the group that is always complaining about other people having fun. Luckily she came in late enough to not have as big an effect. I mean how big of a killjoy do you have to be to go to a club to make sure it's not serving alcohol on your own initiative?? Also the amount of times the game goes "Isn't Naoto so cool and awesome? Here's another reason she's so cool and awesome and all these characters are telling you they think she's cool and awesome!" it makes me dislike her just out of stubbornness. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 20, 2011 |
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Nov 20, 2011 23:46
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It really doesn't seem fair to blame Naoto for getting stuck doing all the exposition, I'm sure the writers would just have had someone else do it if she weren't there.Technique posted:She was basically put in the game for all the people who love traps or whatever, and then just to make it even creepier you can tell her to put on a school uniform. You never actually tell her that, you just suggest she should speak in a more feminine way and the uniform was on her own initiative. That she only wears once. In private. For her boyfriend on what iirc is essentially Japan's #1 romantic holiday. Still a little  for the "talk like a girl" thing, but not really as bad as people make it seem.I didn't choose that option, by the way 
U.T. Raptor fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 00:44
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U.T. Raptor posted:It really doesn't seem fair to blame Naoto for getting stuck doing all the exposition, I'm sure the writers would just have had someone else do it if she weren't there. Naoto could have been a perfectly pleasant character if they took away the only reason she was there, yeah. Unfortunately, her sole purpose was to be a condescending plot fairy, so that's how we judge her. How do you fix a character that does nothing but plot dump?
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Nov 21, 2011 01:10
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Well, what reason do any of the other characters have for being there? I don't really think much would change if say, Yosuke didn't exist.
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Nov 21, 2011 01:42
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A lot of what the rest of the crew were thinking up was a waste of time. Yeah it was important for fleshing them out and establishing their relationships, etc. But I was pretty glad when Naoto came in and just cut to the chase so we could actually get somewhere in the story.
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Nov 21, 2011 01:43
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Momomo posted:Well, what reason do any of the other characters have for being there? I don't really think much would change if say, Yosuke didn't exist. Yosuke's the MC's mouthpiece, a lot would change if he wasn't there. If Naoto wasn't there the story would probably be more like the scooby theme they had going as they get closer and closer till they figure it out instead of the Naoto power hour it turns into(who is so totally cool and amazing).
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Nov 21, 2011 01:47
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Alteisen posted:Yosuke's the MC's mouthpiece, a lot would change if he wasn't there.
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Nov 21, 2011 01:50
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