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readingatwork posted:Oh GOD DAMNIT Hussie now you're just loving with us. Don't worry, all the loving will be applied in a constructive direction.
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Nov 21, 2011 05:48
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Obviously Jake is going to put all this stuff on a mannequin, prototype it and a pool/billiards set, and then that will wind up creating Lord English when the ring from this session falls into the wrong hands. 
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Nov 21, 2011 06:05
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Hmm. So far, there's two main ways we can take what UU is saying: As beneficial to the kids, and as malicious. Beneficial version: - Probably mostly talking at face-value. - Seems to be typing from an Exile station and be a troll. We've seen that Exile stations can be used to hop sessions (Bec Noir did just that). - In this version, UU played the game, synced up with the B2 heros linearly, and is now at the end and has gone back to be all "spoilers!  " and to help maintain any paradox loops that cropped up. - Given that scenario, my best guess would be that she is from a "C" session, the successful product of B2, where there is no trace of Lord English, and possibly, no world-ending cataclysms. This would let Hussie give us a happy ending without the need for a lengthy epilogue, as we'd be finding out the details as we go. Malcious version: - Probably doing the Doc Scratch thing and mostly telling truths while actively working against the goals of the players. - Given the nature of glitches and scratches and stuff, may actually be the equivalent of Doc Scratch for the B2 session. This might be why she doesn't want to give her name, since, when John and Jade show up, they'd immediately be on guard against such a person, hopefully. Worth noting: Off-white text compared to Doc Scratch's pure white text. - In this version, UU is setting up more of the loop that helped summon Lord English, like helping with the bunny.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:18
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One thing to consider is that Doc Scratch had no chatting handle, nor did he have a quirk (other than being a grammatically correct smug rear end in a top hat. I suppose by the same line of reasoning Rose doesn't either.)
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Nov 21, 2011 06:24
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So it's been a while since I checked this poo poo out. I'm completely lost, who are those kids? Their ancestors but in the future? What's with this UU stuff and did Gamzee turns out to be lord english in the end or what? I can't properly mock this crap if I don't know the details. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 21, 2011 06:26
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Luckyellow posted:So it's been a while since I checked this poo poo out. You couldn't properly mock it when you had the details either!
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Nov 21, 2011 06:28
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Gabriel Pope posted:You couldn't properly mock it when you had the details either! Details, details... where's the cliffnotes for this stuff anyway?
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Nov 21, 2011 06:31
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You know it's not a rule you actually *have* to be probated in the MSPA thread 2 or 3 times a year, right Luckyellow?
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Nov 21, 2011 06:32
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For years, people have attempted to finger the fifth column in Homestuck. Why? It's such a fruitless line of thinking. There's only been one character who was secretly evil (Gamzee), and that was his gimmick. There's never been another solid reason to believe that anyone else was secretly evil.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:37
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It's Luckyellow's payday, he has another 10bux to burn.Zoolooman posted:For years, people have attempted to finger the fifth column in Homestuck. Why? It's such a fruitless line of thinking. There's only been one character who was secretly evil (Gamzee), and that was his gimmick. Gizmotinker fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 06:38
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Zoolooman posted:There's only been one character who was secretly evil (Gamzee), and that was his gimmick. There's never been another solid reason to believe that anyone else was secretly evil. Well, what about Scratch? I would count him.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:43
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Ominous Jazz posted:Well, what about Scratch? I would count him. Secretly evil.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:44
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Ominous Jazz posted:Well, what about Scratch? I would count him. He explicitly told the reader that he was the lieutenant of a very evil man almost immediately after his introduction. He was a villain from that point forward.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:44
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Where's the secret part of Doc Scratch's evil?
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Nov 21, 2011 06:44
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And where's the evil part of Gamzee?
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Nov 21, 2011 06:46
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I'm raging against speculation that Rose/Dave/Aradia are secretly evil or UU is secretly evil or Jake is secretly evil etc etc etc. That poo poo is shotgun speculation. If you say everything, you might say something true, but in the meantime, you'll spew a bunch of ridiculous crap.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:49
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pandaK posted:And where's the evil part of Gamzee? http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005345
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Nov 21, 2011 06:50
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Regy Rusty posted:Where's the secret part of Doc Scratch's evil? Doc Scratch wasn't secretly evil, but he wasn't overtly evil. I didn't actually pick that he was an antagonist until... I think the time Aradiancestor turned up. He doesn't make it specifically blatant, but he never says otherwise.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:50
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Cleretic posted:Doc Scratch wasn't secretly evil, but he wasn't overtly evil. I've seen several people say this. I think there were two ways people read him. One was to take him at face value and trust what he said. The other was to believe that he was the archetypal Devil-figure, who lies by telling only the exact truth. The latter is how I read him, since he clearly told the audience that he was the first lieutenant of the Big Evil.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:52
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Regy Rusty posted:Where's the secret part of Doc Scratch's evil? One of the best parts about Doc Scratch is that, ostensibly, he wasn't that evil to any of the characters. We know he's evil now of course, but for a long while he was pretty convincingly benevolent.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:52
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http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005530 "My master is a very evil man."
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Nov 21, 2011 06:56
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I just recently read homestuck in its entirety and I can say that I thought it was pretty obvious that Doc Scratch was evil from the beginning, what with the "works for the devil" introduction. Yeah he may have helped some characters but it was obvious it was all to further his own goal, which was to bring in Lord English.
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Nov 21, 2011 06:56
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Zoolooman posted:There's never been another solid reason to believe that anyone else was secretly evil. Don't you see? It's the perfect cover. 
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Nov 21, 2011 06:58
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Zoolooman posted:http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005345 He's just overreacting is all 
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Nov 21, 2011 07:02
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Zoolooman posted:I've seen several people say this. I think there were two ways people read him. One was to take him at face value and trust what he said. The other was to believe that he was the archetypal Devil-figure, who lies by telling only the exact truth. The ironic thing is that he could have told them the unabridged truth since the green sun was going to be created anyway. He flat out told them that deploying the tumor wouldn't prevent Lord English's entry but they still went along with a futile plan.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:02
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I think it would be magical if before the final boss fight we had a teaser le fight where it was Lord English vs Lord English [God Tier Jake]. I mean that would be like the best thing. Unless Jake was like killed then or something, that wouldn't be very cool. That wouldn't be very cool at all!!
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Nov 21, 2011 07:04
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Hikarusa posted:I think it would be magical if before the final boss fight we had a teaser le fight where it was Lord English vs Lord English [God Tier Jake]. I mean that would be like the best thing. Unless Jake was like killed then or something, that wouldn't be very cool. That wouldn't be very cool at all!! kidMom will finally express her feelings to Jake, kissing him before the final battle. Jake will eventually have to sacrifice himself to create an opening whereupon kidBro and crew activate their rainbow fighting spirit to triumph over all odds.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:08
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Dmitri-9 posted:The ironic thing is that he could have told them the unabridged truth since the green sun was going to be created anyway. He flat out told them that deploying the tumor wouldn't prevent Lord English's entry but they still went along with a futile plan. Lord English wasn't the problem they were trying to deal with. They hoped to destroy the sun to reduce Jack to the final boss he would be without its power backing him. They could fight that. But with his First Guardian powers, he was essentially untouchable for them. LE's march through paradox space was a secondary concern with Jack hunting them down.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:08
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Zoolooman posted:I've seen several people say this. I think there were two ways people read him. One was to take him at face value and trust what he said. The other was to believe that he was the archetypal Devil-figure, who lies by telling only the exact truth. For most of the comic when he was around I had him pegged as sort of an unwilling accomplice of evil, because it didn't enter my mind to read him as anything else. He was working for Lord English, who at the time was ostensibly a bad guy (remember that we didn't know anything really about him before he talked about him to Rose), but I read it that Scratch wanted out of it. There might be bad things happening if Scratch died, but his chief goal was to orchestrate events that led to his death ike the destruction of the Green Sun, and he wanted to die to get the hell out of his life of doing evil things. It didn't enter my mind that he could be actually evil because at the time I had Homestuck pegged as a complex story in a 'scientific' sense, like trying to fit a whole season of New Doctor Who together - all these disparate facts that are probably connected, you just need to figure out how, why and to what. I didn't expect the element of more 'psychological' complexity, where you need to work out exactly how true what you're being told is, given the actual concrete facts you have (also you need to work out what facts you have are concrete and what were lies judging by the source, which gets confusing after a while). Of course I turned out to be about as wrong as you can get.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:10
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Don't overthink it. When the narrator says he is an officer of a demon, you can assume he's evil and continue from there. When he brags about always succeeding in summoning his master, you can redouble your judgement.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:14
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On the subject of Lord English: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003070quote:You've got dibs on English. He's all yours. I can't help but feel this is going to be significant. Like the kids will be the ones breaking 5-dimensional causality or whatever it takes to make LE killable, but some version of Jack will be the one to finish him off.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:23
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Everything about scratch led us to suspect that while he was an agent of lord English, he had secret motivations that ran counter to his masters agenda. All the talk of wanting to die, and wanting to help destroy the source of his masters power. All of the buildup to the SUCKERS revelation, in fact. He was built up as a mysterious, vaguely untrustworthy entity, but ultimately one that was aiding the characters, even though possibly for his own ends. When we discovered that he was actually playing them, assuring the creation rather than the destruction of the Sun, and that his wanting to die thing was not about being tired of his existence or desiring to leave English's service through death, but an act directly serving him, that was the moment he was confirmed as an outright villain, and not before. Otherwise the whole revelation that the kids were creating, not destroying the sun (probably the single least obvious twist in the story to date) would make no sense. Scratch was always shifty as gently caress, but the kids still trusted his plan because they didn't expect him to be straight up screwing them. If you did expect that, good for you but the story was deliberately attempting to mislead readers away from that conclusion.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:31
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dp
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Nov 21, 2011 07:31
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pandaK posted:kidMom will finally express her feelings to Jake, kissing him before the final battle. Jake will eventually have to sacrifice himself to create an opening whereupon kidBro and crew activate their rainbow fighting spirit to triumph over all odds. Gurren Lagann sucked. The shades were the only thing worth salvaging.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:35
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Fagtastic posted:Everything about scratch led us to suspect that while he was an agent of lord English, he had secret motivations that ran counter to his masters agenda. All the talk of wanting to die, and wanting to help destroy the source of his masters power. He said from the beginning that he had to die to summon his master.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:36
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It's hard to say what's good grounds to speculate in Homestuck. It's intentionally hard to predict, with a good mix of genuine, total surprises, clearly forecasted moves, and absolute red herrings. All this Lord English stuff around Jake, for example, might mean something really ominous about his connection to Lord English, or it might mean the opposite (artifacts of his defeat, or a sign that Jake is in a special position to defeat him), or it might mean nothing meaningful at all (basically a big coincidence). Hussie might do any of these things, and exploring the possibilities is what speculating about Homestuck is all about. You can't knock shotgun speculation if it's the only method with a chance of hitting anything!
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Nov 21, 2011 07:40
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Gizmotinker posted:Well, technically, Gamzee was just crazy. Just like Eridan was just pathetic. Like Tavros was misguided. Like Vriska was tragic. I wouldn't say murderspree-Gamzee is crazy, actually. He's sober and lucid for once in his life (and his actions come off as deliberately measured and manipulative for maximum terror/hilarity), and while he's been very angry about his crisis of faith and identity, that's about it. It's even culturally/biologically acceptable for someone of his blood color to kill for basically shits and giggles, so calling him 'evil' is a little simplistic. Yeah, going around killing and scaring the wits out of your friends is kind of a lovely thing to do when you guys are hopelessly stuck on an asteroid, but not as lovely as it would be if he were a human and not from segregated warrior murderplanet. And it's not like he's cast off societal norms either, since he's accepted Karkat's moirallegiance. The rest of the trolls just want to stick him in a quadrant somewhere and not boot him off the asteroid, so I guess they're more or less cool with it too? I think he's certainly associated with evil at least in part, since the sign of Capricorn is half goat and all. Which fits in with Gamzee being Cal's (Scratch's) friend and his role in making Bec Noir what he is right now.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:47
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Remember when it was a social faux pas to bring up the 13th troll? There was a good example of shotgun speculation paying off. Or not as it were because no one could mention it without being badly beaten.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:51
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standard owl posted:his role in making Bec Noir what he is right now. What exactly did he do again?
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Nov 21, 2011 07:54
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Tardstar posted:Remember when it was a social faux pas to bring up the 13th troll? There was a good example of shotgun speculation paying off. Yes, sometimes random guesses do hit the mark. Remember when that guy won the lottery? That was a good example of buying a lottery ticket paying off. quote:What exactly did he do again? Made the harlequin doll show up in John's dreams that he then scribbled on the wall, leading Dad to buy the harlequin doll that got prototyped and caused Jack to flip out and kill the queen over hat disagreements.
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Nov 21, 2011 07:55
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