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AtomikKrab posted:Awesome Alphas the mongoose, gives 0 fucks and kicks the hermes, ignore the raven it is a non threat. Good chance for one mech to kill two in a turn, everyone else should start moving southwards. If this is correct then this is the course of action. Have the other mechs move into cover from the bombardier and the gaussie and use your storm powers thingy.
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Nov 21, 2011 09:59
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AJ_Impy posted:Hmm. With her piloting skills, can we risk just walking backwards into the water? Well... This turn it would take you out of melee range, and the Awesome would benefit from the four heat sinks in its legs effectively having upgraded to Clan Doubles. Its heat capacity would rise from 28 to 32, meaning it would easily dissipate all the heat from alphastriking. But, it would take you out of melee range, meaning you couldn't deliver a JUSTICE FOOT to one of those little pests. Next turn, they could move in to box you in, and now you're facing up to three kicks at short range, one of which is hitting on the punch table. If the enemy 'mechs in question were heavier, I'd say absolutely, positively not. As it is, though, well... It's very risky, and I wouldn't, but it's not a deathly stupid idea, either. quote:Failing that, can we take the inhibitors off? Don't do that. Without the inhibitors, the PPCs have no minimum range, they just run the risk of blowing up if your dice roll low enough. With the inhibitors on, you just have a penalty to-hit that Rebecca's massive piloting score easily compensates for.
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Nov 21, 2011 10:25
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Ignore what ShadowDragon says regarding PPC inhibitors. They are terrible things only meant to cause lesser men peril. True warriors do not fear explosions, but revel in them. Therefore the only course of action is to disable the PPC inhibitors for the noble purpose of crushing oversized beer cans.
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Nov 21, 2011 10:41
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ArbitraryTA posted:Ignore what ShadowDragon says regarding PPC inhibitors. They are terrible things only meant to cause lesser men peril. True warriors do not fear explosions, but revel in them. Show them pain. Edit: Well I'd forgotten just how dangerous that could be. Only do this if you're drunk enough to black out after sending in your orders. 90s Cringe Rock fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 10:56
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Well, let's crunch the numbers on saying "drat the torpedoes, all PPCs ahead!" Rebecca has a Gunnery skill 2. Minimum range +3. Before weather and movement, she's shooting on 5s... Not ideal, but not terrible. The Raven moved 3 hexes. +1 The Hermes moved 6 hexes. +2 The Mongoose moved 8 hexes. +3 If the Awesome uses its break in the wind (or if one of its teammates benevolently declares their own this turn,) then the Awesome, without disengaging its PPCs is shooting as follows: Raven: TH 6 (72.22% chance of hitting per shot) Hermes: TH 7 (58.33% chance of hitting per shot) Mongoose: TH 8 (41.66% chance of hitting per shot.) The Raven gives the best odds of hitting it, but the least utility in shooting it given that it's already been neutered and all it can do is kick you. The Hermes has better-than-even odds of hitting it, and it has two Medium Lasers, paper-thin armor and a Flamer (Oooh, watch that!), while the Mongoose, despite being five tons lighter than the Hermes, is more heavily-armed and armored, carrying three medium lasers and a small laser. Now, let's look at those odds with the PPC inhibitors off, shall we? Raven: TH 3 (97.22% chance of hitting per shot.) Hermes: TH 4 (91.66% chance of hitting per shot.) Mongoose TH 5 (83.33% chance of hitting per shot.) Well, those numbers are a lot better, I'll grant you. Even if shot at the Mongoose, you stand a good chance of just blowing it up outright in one salvo... And, at Range 1, you stand a good chance of blowing yourself up outright. You need to roll a 10+ to avoid PPC explosion at range 1 with the PPC inhibitor off. That means that each shot you fire has an 83.33% chance of blowing up your PPC and dealing 10 Internal damage to each location. You'll kill your target, but you'll more than double their weapon output against you and castrate yourself in the process. This is not a good plan. The only time this is a good plan is when it's the last enemy on the field and you'll have him dead-to-rights if you blow the inhibitors. Also, you've got to watch out for that flamer. If it hits (and it will probably hit,) it's going to raise your heat level by 3. Firing all your PPCs and the small laser will generate 31 heat, the flamer will raise it to 34. You'll sink 28, leaving you at heat 6, which will penalize you next round...... Under better circumstances, I'd never recommend any of the following: Backing down a hill (technically not allowed under current TW rules, but PTN has already set precedent for allowing it), backing into depth 1 water, or hugging the edge of a map-sheet. Now I'm going to recommend all three: back into 0301. You'd get Partial Cover, negating any shots that roll up leg locations, and increase your heat capacity from 28 to 32, but you'll be making PSRs. You'll develop 34 heat in the most likely scenario, sink 32, and be primed to alpha-strike again in the next round. The enemy will have 5 chances to do 5 damage to you and 1 chance to do 3 damage to you, so there's a possibility you'll fail a PSR and fall in water, but she's a good pilot. You'll also have to roll just to make the move: according to the precedent set in The Vipers of Somerset update 5, backing down a hill is a PSR with no modifier. There's also a PSR for entering depth 1 water, at a -1 modifier. That's a roll of 3 (97.22% chance to pass) for backing down the hill, and a roll of 2 (100% chance to pass) for entering the water... It's not a sure thing; the Wolfhound that made the move that set this precedent blew a 97.22% chance of backing down a hill and knocked his leg off in the process... But it beats the alternative, which is taking a savage mauling from five medium lasers and getting your heat spiked so badly you'll have to not shoot one of your PPCs in order to avoid overheating, followed up by those three 'mechs kicking you in the shins. It will also raise your TH numbers by 1: Raven: TH 7 (58.33% chance of hitting per shot) Hermes: TH 8 (41.66% chance of hitting per shot) Mongoose: TH 9 (27.77% chance of hitting per shot.) But the resulting defensive bonuses; ignoring all leg hits, not suffering the fate of every movie bad guy to ever get gang-banged by five-year-olds with hard shoes - are worth it, in my estimation. My advice, Canopus? Back into 0301 and alpha strike the Hermes. The enemy won't be able to kick you, and their shots will be at just under 1/4th of a chance to be ignored completely. You'll stand a good chance of disabling, or at least diminishing the Hermes, and unless those Piloting 5 pilots want to risk the water, only one of them can move in to melee range next turn - granted, he'll be kicking on the punch table, but at this point your choices are limited to "risk mitigation," not "risk avoidance." My advice to the rest of the Lance: Rescue the Awesome. It's facing a gang-bang that's far too close to being a fair fight for your liking, and it's your can-opener, you need it alive. ShadowDragon8685 fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 12:13
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AJ_Impy posted:Hmm. With her piloting skills, can we risk just walking backwards into the water? You can't back down a level change, period.
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Nov 21, 2011 12:16
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I highly disagree with any plan to turn off the inhibitors 
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Nov 21, 2011 12:18
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PoptartsNinja posted:You can't back down a level change, period. Well, that changes a lot and renders my previous tactical analysis invalid (hint: Alpha Strike the Hermes, kick the Hermes if it's still alive or the Raven if it isn't, and pray to God/Allah/Sol Invictus/The Flying Spaghetti Monster your teamies rescue you before next round.) But PTN, you already set precedent to allow backing down a level change. In The Vipers of Somerset, Tactical Update 7, you allowed Spencerb to back his Wolfhound down a level change at a null PSR modifier. (You also, I believe, allowed Mukaikubo to back his 'mech down a hill later on in that same fight.) Granted, it didn't work out so well for them either time, but the Wolfhound's legs being made of balsa wood instead of steel was a fluke of the dice, and Samantha had already been beaten to hell before she tried and flubbed the PSR. ShadowDragon8685 fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 12:20
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:You need to roll a 10+ to avoid PPC explosion at range 1 with the PPC inhibitor off. That means that each shot you fire has an 83.33% chance of blowing up your PPC and dealing 10 Internal damage to each location. Please do not do this. 
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Nov 21, 2011 13:52
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Artificer posted:Please do not do this. Don't... Give advice? Don't quote the numerical probability of an Awesome explodinating itself with the PPC inhibitors off at point-blank range? Don't fire three PPCs at point-blank range with the inhibitors off?
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Nov 21, 2011 13:55
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Don't... Give advice? Don't quote the numerical probability of an Awesome explodinating itself with the PPC inhibitors off at point-blank range? Don't fire three PPCs at point-blank range with the inhibitors off? Seems obvious to me.
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Nov 21, 2011 14:20
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Affi posted:Seems obvious to me. Me too, but with the internet and the lack of context, it was hard to be certain.
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Nov 21, 2011 14:21
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Me too, but with the internet and the lack of context, it was hard to be certain. No, no, no... stop giving well thought out advice, with numbers to back it up. That's just ruining the thread track-record.  
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Nov 21, 2011 14:27
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Tarquinn posted:No, no, no... stop giving well thought out advice, with numbers to back it up. That's just ruining the thread track-record. Alright, here's some alternate advice, then. drat the torpedoes, blow the inhibitors and fire everything at the Raven, then kick it so many times you make that Awesome do the Russian squat-dance on its mechanical corpse. Five medium lasers? Flamer? PPC explosions? Gross misuse of time and opportunity? Who gives a toss, annihilate the little bastard! The only reason I'm not advising a DFA is because you ain't got jump jets, so this is the next most self-destructively  thing I can think.
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Nov 21, 2011 14:32
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Just because you aint got jumpjets don't mean your mech can't jump does it? ELBOW DROP
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Nov 21, 2011 14:38
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Affi posted:Just because you aint got jumpjets don't mean your mech can't jump does it? Unfortunately, Mechanical Jump Boosters won't be invented for another 30 years. Affi posted:ELBOW DROP And they're explicitly disallowed from use for DFA attacks.
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Nov 21, 2011 14:49
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Unfortunately, Mechanical Jump Boosters won't be invented for another 30 years.
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Nov 21, 2011 14:57
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Me too, but with the internet and the lack of context, it was hard to be certain. I meant don't turn the inhibitors off, yeah. 
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Nov 21, 2011 15:27
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What are PPC inhibitors supposed to be/do? Why do clan PPCs (apparently?) not have them? I have never heard of them before.
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Nov 21, 2011 15:35
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Arglebargle III posted:What are PPC inhibitors supposed to be/do? Why do clan PPCs (apparently?) not have them? I have never heard of them before. clans only have erppcs which have no minimum range. Basically without cut and pasting the rules, turning off the field inhibitor of a ppc remove the minimum rnage but with the chance the ppc will explode.
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Nov 21, 2011 15:36
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Axe-man posted:clans only have erppcs which have no minimum range. Basically without cut and pasting the rules, turning off the field inhibitor of a ppc remove the minimum rnage but with the chance the ppc will explode. Honestly if the chance that the PPC will explode is if you roll under ten then.. yeah.. that loving sucks. If it had been like a 5 or something it'd at least be useful occasionally.
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Nov 21, 2011 15:43
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Okay but why do PPCs even explode at all? When ERPPCs don't?
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Nov 21, 2011 16:06
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Affi posted:Honestly if the chance that the PPC will explode is if you roll under ten then.. yeah.. that loving sucks. If it had been like a 5 or something it'd at least be useful occasionally. actaully, i'm checking tacops on that. I never do it personally. yeah, it's 10+ roll for it, range of 1 is a bitch for it, but range 3 is 3+ range 2 6+ so it's mainly good for things just inside the range. I personally wouldn't take the risk, but then again, I tend to have kinda bad streaks. personally, i'd have the awesome go for some long range shots on the other gauss urbie, and melee the lights. VVVV Axe-man fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 16:07
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Thankfully, this scenario works out well for the players. The Awesome can easily take whatever piddling damage the lights and the Whitworth might do, and you might be able to neuter the rest of the lights. As long as three of the enemy mechs are sitting back that far, you have the advantage of weight of fire to go along with your superior pilots and armor. Turkey shoot. As for the PPC Inhibitor. It is a roll of 10 on a target 1 hex away, 6 on a target 2 hexes away, and 3 on a 3 hex target. Just not worth it. KnoxZone fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 16:08
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay but why do PPCs even explode at all? When ERPPCs don't? ERPPCS have no minimum range at all. PPCs the fluff reason why is there is a field inhibitor that allows the ppc to function, but make it hard to charge and aim at close range. ERPPCS are updated versions of it, that were made just before the fall of the star league. in reality it was more that in the old days ppcs filled a different role than they do now days. TacOps has alot of rules for older weapons that tries to make them more effective with the modern ruleset and weapons. IS ERPPCS don't do it either VVVVV Axe-man fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 16:21
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay but why do PPCs even explode at all? When ERPPCs don't? Because clan everything is better.
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Nov 21, 2011 16:21
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ISERPPCs have no minimum range either. PPCs are still amazing and inexpensive weapons. The 5 less heat is very nice. 9Q is the best AWS for this reason.
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Nov 21, 2011 16:23
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So how does spotting work? Because it looks to me as if the Awesome is set up to take two LRM-20s and two LRM-10s in addition to the attacks from the lights... unless it's possible for one of the lights to spot indirect missile fire onto the back of some other mech. Can you only spot if the target is in front of you, and can you torso-twist to meet that condition?
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Nov 21, 2011 16:34
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Narsham posted:So how does spotting work? Because it looks to me as if the Awesome is set up to take two LRM-20s and two LRM-10s in addition to the attacks from the lights... unless it's possible for one of the lights to spot indirect missile fire onto the back of some other mech. Can you only spot if the target is in front of you, and can you torso-twist to meet that condition? A mech can spot for any mech sporting LRMs that is in range, but has no Line of Sight. Standard TH modifiers apply, along with a +1 TH for spotting, a +1 TH if the spotter is firing, and the spotters movement modifier. The Whitworth already has Line of Sight on the Awesome and the Bombardier will probably have a better shot on a different mech, so it probably isn't a concern. That might change if the players decide to clear the weather this turn.
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Nov 21, 2011 16:47
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay but why do PPCs even explode at all? When ERPPCs don't? for game balance? I can't imagine aiming at something close up would cause anything except stormtroopers to explode, so it must have something to do with arming whatever comes out of the PPC too early? Which doesn't seem to make any sense at all since it's an energy weapon if I guess correctly... What's the PPCs destructive force made out of anyway? Is it something more solid that would require some sort of arming process? To me, with my very limited knowledge, it seems it'd make more sense to forbid shooting at very close ranges and just apply huge negative modifiers for the to-hit, but I guess that'd screw up the weapon too much. Narsham: I think those LRMs are inside its minimum range. I think they'll be going elsewhere (not sure whether a mech can fire missiles in a different direction from where it is facing, but probably, otherwise it'd be pretty difficult to hit fighters). cwDeici fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 16:53
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cwDeici posted:for game balance? PPCs are basically man made lightening cannons. to get more into it, would require either looking up TacOps or a btech novel.
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Nov 21, 2011 16:57
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Axe-man posted:PPCs are basically man made lighting cannons. to get more into it, would require either looking up TacOps or a btech novel. Oh, they're BT tesla-cannons? That acually makes some sense at least. : ) I'll check it up myself. Thanks ^^
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Nov 21, 2011 16:58
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Axe-man posted:PPCs are basically man made lightening cannons. to get more into it, would require either looking up TacOps or a btech novel. Not true! It might look like lightning, but the PPC actually fires an ion or proton bolt from a magnetic accelerator. The electrical part is actually a burst of static. The PPC Capacitor is there to prevent the unfocused static from overloading the electronics.
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Nov 21, 2011 17:03
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Felime posted:ISERPPCs have no minimum range either. PPCs are still amazing and inexpensive weapons. The 5 less heat is very nice. Reasons like not having an XL engine, not carrying any ammo, being a crit-eating unkillable zombie, and packing a Guardian ECM because why the gently caress not?
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Nov 21, 2011 17:11
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Mary Annette posted:Reasons like not having an XL engine, not carrying any ammo, being a crit-eating unkillable zombie, and packing a Guardian ECM because why the gently caress not? Indeed! Though occasionally I wish it packed an extra DHS or two instead of the GECM. Make it slightly more heat-stable.
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Nov 21, 2011 17:18
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Shoeless posted:Indeed! Though occasionally I wish it packed an extra DHS or two instead of the GECM. Make it slightly more heat-stable. Check the -9Qs crit tables. It's jam-packed except for two slots each in the CT and legs. There is literally no room for another DHS, even though the weight is there.
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Nov 21, 2011 17:23
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Mary Annette posted:Check the -9Qs crit tables. It's jam-packed except for two slots each in the CT and legs. There is literally no room for another DHS, even though the weight is there. I would love to see a 9Q with the ECM, small laser, and half a ton of armor stripped off, replaced with c3i. It combines the pure bullshit that is c3i along with the amazing power of four PPCs on a zombie mech. SO GOOD!
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Nov 21, 2011 17:32
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Mary Annette posted:Check the -9Qs crit tables. It's jam-packed except for two slots each in the CT and legs. There is literally no room for another DHS, even though the weight is there. Well crap. Yeah, I suppose that wouldn't work then.
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Nov 21, 2011 17:39
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Axe-man posted:PPCs are basically man made lightening cannons. to get more into it, would require either looking up TacOps or a btech novel. I think this is yet another Stackpole-ism. PPC stands for Particle Projection Cannon so presumably they are some kind of superpowered cyclotron hooked up to a magnetic firing chamber. I guess they probably would cause all kinds of electrical weirdness when you shoot them*, but that's a side effect. The damage is caused by transferring momentum to the target just like any projectile weapon, only in the particle beam's case the mass is super-low and the speed is super-high. If you could use a neutron beam there would be no electrical side effects, but you can't use a cyclotron to accelerate neutrons. *I have no idea of the realistic scale of those effects. If only there was some Battlemech-portable device that generated very fast neutrons. Something like, I dunno, a fusion reactor. And they would need some kind of neutron-reflective material to focus it, like, for example, the housing of a fusion reactor. Then maybe you could create a neutron weapon that would bypass the electrical side effects of a proton beam. If only the BT universe had access to those kinds of technologies...  Still, I had never heard of PPCs having a built-in explosion device. Presumably ERPPCs get around this fundamental physics problem in their almost-identical cousins somehow?
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Nov 21, 2011 18:29
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I believe the ability to disengage the PPC Inhibitors is a TacOps optional rule anyway.
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Nov 21, 2011 19:00
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