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Swingline posted:Welp, 0 for 4 on even getting a first round. Life of mediocre corporate 9-5 here I come Trust me, your health and your personal life will thank you for not becoming an IB analyst
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Nov 21, 2011 00:15
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So tons of my over-achieving finance colleagues who have 3.9+ GPAs and tons of club involvement at our target school also struck out big time on even getting first rounds. A kid with a 3.98 went 1 for 6. Such an awful hiring environment. Is going to law school with big law in mind still a lovely idea or has that bubble calmed down a bit? I'm trying to figure out what to do now that my plan A has been all but crushed. As a recommendation to seniors in high school or underclassmen in college, don't make the same mistake I did. Unless the market makes a miraculous recovery by the time you're a junior even a 3.9 and plenty of club/finance involvement will not even come close to guaranteeing you a job on wallstreet these days. Keep working towards your dream but develop a plan B, and C, and D so you're not scrambling to figure out what to do your junior year if things don't go as you planned. Swingline fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 03:48
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Law school is an awful idea. Unless you go to a top (and I mean tippy-top) program, BigLaw is out of the question. Even they pretty much didn't bring on any associates in the past cycle, or so I heard. I know a few of my MDs have JDs though, not sure how that happened since they were definitely on the banking (as opposed to legal or whatever) side. Edit: also I'm surprised you're already hearing rejections, apps at my school aren't even due until mid/late January (or at least that's how it was when I was applying for Summer Analyst positions). It's definitely WAY too early for you to give up on getting a banking internship. Just keep pluggin out apps (to smaller banks, etc.) and networking and you'll wind up with something. I got my offer on May 7th. Think it was late April that I got invited to interview. This was at a top-3 bulge bank for a decent group (ie better than vanilla DCM but not, you know, M&A). Keep fuckin' plugging and don't give up. tolerabletariff fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 09:05
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Citi, JPM, DB, and Houlihan Lokey had November 13th application deadlines for OCR. They notified people the 19th. All of the other BBs are January 11th or 18th deadlines and 5-6 other banks like Lazard MM, William Blair, and Macquarie are January as well. I hear back from Goldman's early application process in December.
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Nov 21, 2011 09:24
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Odd. Earliest banking due date I saw last year was December 28th, and that was for a boutique in Houston (my top choice at the time). I guess it's different for every school. Which is surprising because I remember seeing a bunch of kids from different schools on my superdays in February. edit: lol Houlihan Hokey
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Nov 21, 2011 21:07
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Any advice as to asking for an extension on an offer deadline? They gave me three weeks but I'm also simultaneously hearing back from several other places about a week after that. It's tough because they want me to fly out for a "welcome day" for people who received offers so I have to simultaneously schedule that as well. I'm just not sure what the etiquette is for this I guess.
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Nov 22, 2011 04:44
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Leo posted:Any advice as to asking for an extension on an offer deadline? They gave me three weeks but I'm also simultaneously hearing back from several other places about a week after that. If it is a bulge bracket I would expect zero (or close to zero) flexibility on this If not you might want to give it a shot, but I suggest doing so over the phone so you can grovel more effectively The important thing to keep in mind is that they care much less about you than about filling the slot, and you're pretty interchangeable with the 50 or so kids they have on the alternate list
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Nov 22, 2011 09:18
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Swingline posted:Unless the market makes a miraculous recovery by the time you're a junior even a 3.9 and plenty of club/finance involvement will not even come close to guaranteeing you a job on wallstreet these days. Keep working towards your dream but develop a plan B, and C, and D so you're not scrambling to figure out what to do your junior year if things don't go as you planned. (this is to the general "you") Hiring is incredibly volatile. It's anyone's guess what it'll be like in 3 years time. If you decide that Finance is your calling and you really want it, you can make it happen. On the flip side, this should deter your from getting into banking just because you heard about the models and bottles that they have As for me, I wasn't sure that I wanted it until I hit the beginning of junior year in college
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Nov 22, 2011 09:45
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tolerabletariff posted:Law school is an awful idea. Unless you go to a top (and I mean tippy-top) program, BigLaw is out of the question. Even they pretty much didn't bring on any associates in the past cycle, or so I heard. Visit the Law School thread in this same sub-forum. It will appropriately depress you. The job market is massively over-saturated. They will tell you don't get a JD unless you want to be a lawyer. With that said transactional law is pretty close to banking, you are the middle man legal stamper instead of the middle man finance person. I work in public finance, investment banking for governments, and my boss worked in the law side and transitioned over to the banking side very well due to all her relationships and intimate knowledge of the field. If you graduate with NOTHING and have no other options and think you can get in to a top five law school MAYBE it's worth pursuing. I would still take a nonbanking job that uses excel/analytic skills/your brain and go back to business school when the economy is better. Law school sucks, law students and lawyers suck, and Biglaw sucks the worst, especially if all you really wanted to do was finance. You will incur 200k of debt studying arcane torts law for a slim to bad chance at a brutal soul crushing job in transaction law. Also raise your hand if you're working through Thanksgiving. Not that glamorous. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 24, 2011 |
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Nov 24, 2011 03:35
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Glad I found this thread. I will be working FT at a middle market IBD after graduation. In many ways I got very lucky and I wish the best to all those still plugging away in this environment. I'm in law school now and managed to get in through a lot of networking/hustling, anything's possible goons, keep your chin up! Edit: To contribute to the above, don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer. I'm coming out relatively unscathed (the biggest drawback for me being three years of not working FT), but I don't recommend my path whatsoever, way too risky fougera fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 15:31
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Anyone have any good excel modeling courses that they would recommend? I majored in math and econ so I'm more familiar with matlab/maple/stata. Working as an analyst at an asset management firm and I feel like I'm severely lacking in that area.
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Dec 2, 2011 05:16
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lizardking posted:Anyone have any good excel modeling courses that they would recommend? I majored in math and econ so I'm more familiar with matlab/maple/stata. Working as an analyst at an asset management firm and I feel like I'm severely lacking in that area. http://macabacus.com/
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Dec 2, 2011 13:56
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Leo posted:Any advice as to asking for an extension on an offer deadline? They gave me three weeks but I'm also simultaneously hearing back from several other places about a week after that. I'm an MD at a mid market tech firm, and I agree with whoever here said call them. Try and get a principal too who liked you, not the recruiter who has been told don't accept any changes on the dates. The problem is, they also have probably 3 candidates they like slightly less than you for that job. If I really liked someone and they called and I thought I still had a good shot at getting them, I would give them a little more time. But if the other candidates were great and it was tight, I'd skip it and go to the next guy because inevitably when we hire we do it weeks later than we should have. I'd go to the welcome day, but explain your situation before they buy you the ticket.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:06
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Thoogsby posted:http://macabacus.com/ Thank you.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:13
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Spent yesterday morning walking around the floor of the NYSE. Got in through an alumni connection. The place is essentially a museum at this point but it was still pretty cool. I got to talk to one of the specialists from Goldman and he showed me all his screens and some stuff he was running on his prop book. I also fought the urge to give Jim Cramer a noogie. Have a blurry cell picture: 
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Dec 6, 2011 16:58
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I'm currently working in tech at a large-ish hedge fund in London. I'm thinking of doing my CFA exams - company might not pay for them but they're paying me enough that I can afford to do it if I want to. Do you guys rate it as a qualification, and what benefits will it give me?
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Dec 8, 2011 20:06
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I have the CFA and it hasn't helped me. Only do it if your company pays for it or wants you to have it. The CFA is primarily for people working as Financial Advisors at wealth management firms. It's about portfolio management and equity research, if you don't want to work in either of these fields you are wasting your time. Don't make the same mistake I did and blowing a fortune and 600 hours just to have a certification no one in the industry takes all that seriously. EDIT: On top of that, the CFA program is saturated with candidates. Even with something like a 40% pass rate, enough people take the exam per year that you still end up with a ton of successful candidates each year. The CFA charter just isn't as valuable as it used to be. With the economy the way it is today, a lot of people from English Majors to Political Science majors are taking it with the hope that it'll make them more employable. If you do want to work as an Investment Advisor, keep in mind that they have been hit really hard with the way the economy has been going lately. A lot of "Investment Assistants" have been laid off as a result of the losses people have been experiencing in their portfolios. Of course this shouldn't dissuade you because all that means is the bad people got laid off and there's an even bigger demand for the "good" assistants. Where I live however the average person who starts in that industry is about 30 years old, and makes about $50k per year. The job is stressful (especially in these times) and has a high turnover rate. You're probably better off remaining where you are and climbing your way up the ranks in the back office. Despite what everyone says it's a cushy life with nicer hours and you can still find yourself making 200k by the end of your career. DerDestroyer fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 9, 2011 |
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Dec 9, 2011 00:53
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I kind of agree with DerDestroyer. I'm only doing the CFA because if I don't end up going to bschool I'll end up staying in PWM and my current employer is paying for it / expecting me to take the CFA exams. If you don't have any intention of working in PWM then I don't seeing it being that useful unless there is a large CFA society you can network with in your area. Just my two cents though.
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Dec 9, 2011 02:36
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I'm good at math (so far, calc 2) but just beyond bored of physics and widgets/trinkets. I've always been interested in economics, finance, and for that matter administration and management, if only because I get tired of seeing people screw up and having to fix things in my personal life. While I know a desire to fix things and handle money and do math is positive, it's vague, and nobody would ever want to hire me as a manager because of my intense desire to prevent problems and fix existing ones, making me now wonder - what do I do? I'm two years in, and right now flip flopping between stats, CIS, or maybe econ, and since the stats degree that my university offers requires a minor, going down the middle seems fair. At the same time, a big change in gears to do Finance seems possible, though it means going 'back' to do accounting classes with people putting off taking business calc. What would you say is best for me to do? Analysis is extremely interesting, but so is 'moving up' in some regard; I care more about having a say in how things are done than simply chasing money. I care more about stability and people in my life than money and an expensive car to commute from an exurb with, anyway. Interest in a wide field gives flexibility, but meh, I have to specialize, don't I?
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Jan 2, 2012 07:31
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Interest in a wide field gives flexibility, but meh, I have to specialize, don't I?
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Jan 2, 2012 07:43
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realqueenbetty posted:If you want to go the management route, you'll probably want to look into an MBA after you've gotten a couple of years of work experience in. You could prepare now for the GMAT and take it after graduation, as the scores are good for five years. (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.) Well, what do I do as a u-grad then?
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Jan 2, 2012 07:45
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Well, what do I do as a u-grad then? realqueenbetty posted:You could prepare now for the GMAT
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Jan 2, 2012 07:55
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I should probably mention that UNF isn't exactly the hottest of state schools. Given that I'm not going to have a lot going for me except what I actually bring to an interview, instead of a name on a piece of parchment, what would I be realistic in orienting to for a goal?
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Jan 2, 2012 08:00
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I don't come from a target school either. What year are you? I'm assuming you're an underclassman.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:53
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realqueenbetty posted:I don't come from a target school either. 2nd.
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Jan 2, 2012 09:04
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2banks1swap.avi posted:2nd.
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Jan 2, 2012 09:21
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Before I finally fall asleep, the big thing I'm not sure about is if I should study stats, econ, finance - or if it even really matters. I should have been more clear about it. Bleh. Kinda wish I actually WANTED to be an engineer, though I did at least like all the math I picked up along the way.
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Jan 2, 2012 09:29
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I need some help, have a bunch of pfs due like a week ago and its for an independent study with an engineering prof so he can't help. Trade expense. Not trade payable, trade expense. I'm doing a three-statement model and I'm trying to figure out if it's something you back out of net income to get cash from ops. It's a for a media company so trade in this case is enough to make an impact on the IRR... Google is not being helpful at all and I don't have the best accounting background so I'm having trouble thinking this through: I'm thinking since it's a non-cash expense it should get backed out with depreciation, etc. But I also know that whatever was traded FOR gets recorded as revenue... so maybe the expense should be left in so that you don't count the trade revenue as cash?
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Jan 4, 2012 00:49
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Before I finally fall asleep, the big thing I'm not sure about is if I should study stats, econ, finance - or if it even really matters. I should have been more clear about it. Banking is a lot of accounting with a little finance theory. Study this. Econ and stats are largely irrelevant to corporate finance.
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Jan 9, 2012 08:07
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tolerabletariff posted:I need some help, have a bunch of pfs due like a week ago and its for an independent study with an engineering prof so he can't help. I think you should back it out as a non-cash expense, I'm not quite following your other reasoning. If you incurred another non-cash expense in the generation of revenue would you not treat it the same way? quote:Operating Cash Flow may be defined differently by different people. I know someone whom I greatly respect who defines OCF without including trade revenues or trade expenses. Including them in calculating OCF may change OCF in a given year due to timing differences of revenue and expense recognition, but inclusion of trade revenues and trade expenses is part of GAAP http://www.charleswarner.us/articles/ReadingFinancialReports.htm In http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UCNea8rf22hAX_A It is included in supplemental disclosure and in the liabilities section. Look how they handle it. I think it's pretty clear I don't really know what I'm talking about here but maybe some of these resources help, I'm not quite following you. Why would trade revenue be counted as cash? Why isn't it just revenue? I have a job question. I'm recruiting for a number of jobs on various time lines, some several months apart. Specifically, I have a few offers coming in the next few days and am just starting a process with GE Capital on a timeline that could take months. How long do you have to stay at one job before you leave for another to the point it's disrespectful. Three months? Six? Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 08:33
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Its Miller Time posted:I have a job question. I'm recruiting for a number of jobs on various time lines, some several months apart. Specifically, I have a few offers coming in the next few days and am just starting a process with GE Capital on a timeline that could take months. How long do you have to stay at one job before you leave for another to the point it's disrespectful. Three months? Six? I don't know if there's a hard rule but I would say 6 months seems right. Coincidentally I'm starting an FMP rotation with GE in two weeks.
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Jan 9, 2012 16:12
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edit: Question answered.
Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jan 10, 2012 |
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Jan 10, 2012 10:39
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Strange question (and I'm not quite sure I'm in the right thread): would doing this be a bad idea?
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Jan 10, 2012 17:32
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Fuschia tude posted:Strange question (and I'm not quite sure I'm in the right thread): would doing this be a bad idea? Do you like coding in C++?
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Jan 10, 2012 17:44
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Vomik posted:Do you like coding in C++? Yes! It's not my favorite language, but I do have a bachelor's in CS.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:58
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Any of you have any opinions on Northwestern as a target school? I'm considering going there for a Bachelors in Economics. After that there's a certificate you can get for Financial Economics which would really be the only time I'd be going to Kellogg. I know Kellogg is right behind Wharton, Harvard, and all the top schools in terms of the prestige for their MBA program, but I don't know how well respected their undergrad program is. I'm looking at Business Institutions as a minor. My other option is UChicago which from what I hear is no better than NU and is an awful school to be at. If there's ever a big recruiting session at UChicago I could just drive there from NU, so I'm not really looking at it too hard. Also, I know the GMAT takes months and months of studying, but can you get by on the studying without having a background? I'd like to take it before I start working on scholarships because that'd be a hell of a credential to have compared to all these kids fresh out of high school. Can you get by on just learning specifically for the test or is it too based on advanced concepts? Everything I've seen has indicated that there's no way I could learn everything for it in 6 months from where I sit now, but I wanted to hear the personal opinion of someone who's already taken it or knows a lot about it.
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Jan 12, 2012 02:07
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Fuschia tude posted:Yes! Then it's something you should look into. I was just asking because being a quant is majority programming and not a lot of "investment banking" necessarily... some people have a different view, but if you really enjoy programming and want to work in finance it's worth the consideration. I have no opinion about the school though, sorry. alex_carrigan posted:Any of you have any opinions on Northwestern as a target school? I'm considering going there for a Bachelors in Economics. After that there's a certificate you can get for Financial Economics which would really be the only time I'd be going to Kellogg. I know Kellogg is right behind Wharton, Harvard, and all the top schools in terms of the prestige for their MBA program, but I don't know how well respected their undergrad program is. I'm looking at Business Institutions as a minor. My other option is UChicago which from what I hear is no better than NU and is an awful school to be at. If there's ever a big recruiting session at UChicago I could just drive there from NU, so I'm not really looking at it too hard. GMAT isn't that hard, and it's a standardized test so you don't need a "background." Don't take the GMAT in high school... scores pretty much expire in 5 years and you won't go to business school until you've worked a couple years. And I can't imagine any scholarships will care that you took the GMAT
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Jan 12, 2012 16:53
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Not meant to derail or create an Occupy debate, but does anyone have some insight into the investment banking world since OWS? I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business. The reason I ask is because I'll be an undergrad at Northwestern in the fall and I've strongly considered majoring in Economics, and I've toyed with the idea of investment banking. It seems like a genuinely interesting job that I might enjoy, however, I don't think I could work for a firm that contributes heavily to the current financial crisis. Granted, I know investment banking is for the greater good in theory, but I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business and how your role relates to the financial sector as of late.
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Jan 14, 2012 10:09
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SuperKoopa posted:Not meant to derail or create an Occupy debate, but does anyone have some insight into the investment banking world since OWS? I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business. The reason I ask is because I'll be an undergrad at Northwestern in the fall and I've strongly considered majoring in Economics, and I've toyed with the idea of investment banking. It seems like a genuinely interesting job that I might enjoy, however, I don't think I could work for a firm that contributes heavily to the current financial crisis. Granted, I know investment banking is for the greater good in theory, but I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business and how your role relates to the financial sector as of late. The average "investment banker" is just a person like you and me who works a job that requires long hours and a metric fuckton of dedication. Trust me the only thing you're doing wrong is generating revenue for them that they might use for something indecent. You're a grunt, a very well paid grunt but a grunt none the less. If you divide your pay by the actual amount of hours you worked you aren't even all that well paid either. You're also subject to the same issues the 99% would be subject to in an economic downturn. If you made the choice to study finance and get into banking you're simply making a choice for how you survive in this world. DerDestroyer fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 15, 2012 |
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Jan 15, 2012 04:30
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SuperKoopa posted:Not meant to derail or create an Occupy debate, but does anyone have some insight into the investment banking world since OWS? I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business. The reason I ask is because I'll be an undergrad at Northwestern in the fall and I've strongly considered majoring in Economics, and I've toyed with the idea of investment banking. It seems like a genuinely interesting job that I might enjoy, however, I don't think I could work for a firm that contributes heavily to the current financial crisis. Granted, I know investment banking is for the greater good in theory, but I'm curious what you all think of the morality of the business and how your role relates to the financial sector as of late. I don't know that there has been any difference in the banking industry as a result of OWS. While it got a lot of press I don't think their message ever made an impact because it was a little all over the place. Not that the idea behind was wrong but I think it turned into a joke pretty quickly once the craziest among the protesters got all the attention. Approaching a career path from a morality standpoint is a difficult place to start. If you think banking or finance is the field for you then do it, be good at it, and act ethically. No one can expect more from you and all the mud slinging and finger pointing is for the birds. A broken system is what caused the financial crisis and there were maybe a handful of people that had the vantage point to see it coming and they hosed it up or were ignored. Chances are you'll never be one of those people. As far as jumping into an undergraduate business/finance program I think the best advice I can give is to be as well informed about the hard facts from the last couple years but leave whatever prejudice you have about whose fault it was at the door. Especially at a great school like Northwestern you'll probably have really intelligent professors and even if you disagree with their political leanings you can learn a lot from them. I took a Macro-Theory course last semester and my professor couldn't have been more right-wing if he wanted to and while I didn't totally jive with a lot of his ideas it was probably one of the most enjoyable classroom experiences I've had.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:29
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