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What else do they make those guard rails out of? All the ones here just seem to be a steel or metal of some sort and i've never seen them rusty.
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Dec 1, 2011 17:59
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Why do towns like the rusty ones, is it because it blends in better? A lot of the parkways in NJ and NY have guardrails that look to be just painted brown and that would have the same effect wouldn't it?
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Dec 1, 2011 18:05
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washow posted:How busted must the roads be before they get patched? Street in front of my house is busted as hell with quite a few potholes and recently it was patched but only one section of the road. Speaking from moderate ignorance, generally 2.5%-5% of coverage area needing care. And they do a lovely job because it's cheaper immediately than doing a good job, and pubworks is generally operating 'within the margins' that is, on a cash-flow basis and unable to make significant forward investments in improving service quality. Also, the 'weathered steel' ones look like hell, like they just haven't been cared for. It never occurred to me that it was on purpose. That's like letting your car rust out because it looks better - no, it doesn't. They should just paint the damned things and/or seal them with lacquer or epoxy if they want 50 years of performance.
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Dec 1, 2011 18:40
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washow posted:How busted must the roads be before they get patched? Street in front of my house is busted as hell with quite a few potholes and recently it was patched but only one section of the road. Step 1: Write a complaint to whoever owns the road. Keep a copy for yourself, notarized. Step 2: In a month, file a claim for car damage against them. It'll get paved pretty quick, and you can get your tires replaced and axles re-aligned!
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Dec 1, 2011 22:35
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Baronjutter posted:What else do they make those guard rails out of? All the ones here just seem to be a steel or metal of some sort and i've never seen them rusty. They're steel, but they're not galvanized. It's the galvanization that keeps them from rusting. Install Gentoo posted:Why do towns like the rusty ones, is it because it blends in better? A lot of the parkways in NJ and NY have guardrails that look to be just painted brown and that would have the same effect wouldn't it? Rusty guiderails stand out less against dirt and tree trunks than galvanized rails. Painting them costs more than just letting them rust, plus it scrapes off. In its study New Hampshire considered painting and epoxy-coating, but the sacrificial zinc plate is cheaper. Chaos Motor posted:Also, the 'weathered steel' ones look like hell, like they just haven't been cared for. It never occurred to me that it was on purpose. That's like letting your car rust out because it looks better - no, it doesn't. They should just paint the damned things and/or seal them with lacquer or epoxy if they want 50 years of performance. Unfortunately, this is another case of the people who make decisions not caring about performance. Weathering steel is a context-sensitive thing meant to boost PR; I don't think that safety was ever a consideration.
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Dec 1, 2011 22:40
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That's crazy! Those are functional safety devices, not decorations. Also the rust look like poo poo. It's like building a bridge or something out of rust. What the hell that is insane. So I guess all the ones where I live are galvanized?
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Dec 1, 2011 22:50
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Cichlidae posted:Step 1: Write a complaint to whoever owns the road. Keep a copy for yourself, notarized. I tried to do that in High School, when a pothole at the juncture of a paved state road and a gravel county road blew my tire - and each side claimed that I had to file against the other. I tried to do this again a couple years ago, when a pothole in a turn lane broke my anti-sway bar... turning into the repair shop to get an inspection. The spot had at least six identifiable (by color) patches on and around it. The trick is, the City Attorney is the person who has the forms, and unless they choose to issue you a claim form, you're going to have to hire an attorney, which will cost more than the claim... you can see where this rotten hole leads. I did once get out of a speeding ticket by tracking down MODOT condition analysis reports that gave a recommended limit 10MPH higher than posted, and prove that the posted limit was posted illegally according to MODOT regulation (which requires the posted limit to be the same as the recommended limit if a condition study is performed). Now that was a trick! Chaos Motor fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 1, 2011 |
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Dec 1, 2011 23:35
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Cichlidae posted:
Driving on roads with the just plain brown guardrails, I've never seen them scraped off, and there's no way they've got people painting them often enough to avoid. Here's some of that guardrail on the Garden State Parkway, with our former governor's SUV from when it got in a collision with a pickup and ended up landing on the guardrail:  Story about the accident: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2007/04/14/48251-injured-n-j-governor-corzine-undergoes-2nd-surgery/ And another picture of the guardrail near an accident :  And a larger one near another accident, where a part that was clearly impacted by a vehicle is just scraped to a rust color instead of brown: http://i.imgur.com/rLUMI.jpg The Parkway itself has the brown guardrail along most of its length, perhaps NJ is using some special kind? As you can see the brown coating is also on many signposts as well. Maybe all the CT towns who want their guardrail to blend in should call up the New Jersey Turnpike Authority.
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Dec 2, 2011 00:39
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It's time for a Field Visit! All of these photos are available much bigger. This is Portland, CT. It's just across the river from Middletown. Portland's economy in the past has hinged on shipbuilding and brownstone quarrying. Most of the brownstones in New York and Boston owe their stone to Portland. Unfortunately, the quarry flooded in the 1930s. It's now an adventure park, with kayaking, diving, and zip-lines.  And the project location is the entrance to Portland, along Main Street, CT 66 and CT 17. The ADT here is about 33,000, most of it through traffic. Portland decided to invest some cash in beautification in the hopes of attracting more visitors and business.  The project introduced a nice wide sidewalk and street furniture, at the expense of on-street parking. The open space is also great for improving sight distance and getting rid of backing accidents.  These in-pavement solar lights were sprinkled randomly across the project. They're inset in the stamped concrete border along the edge of the road that adds a protective element.  Unfortunately, they stick up a few millimeters. As we all know, anything that sticks up is bound to get wrecked by snowplows! This one got pulled out. Given they're a few hundred bucks each, the town probably won't replace it, or any more that disappear.  The same fault applies to the stamped concrete.  The trees, on the other hand, have done very well. They're callery pears, and miraculously didn't get mauled by the freak snowstorm. They even have little tiny fruit!  These trash cans cost several thousand dollars each. I'm not sure why they're filled up with water; you'd figure someone would be cleaning them.  Pretty benches and flagpoles aren't going to bring business by themselves. Getting rid of the on-street parking might make life tougher for restaurants, especially, even now that they have a convenient patio for outdoor dining.  This flagpole, in fact, has already been smashed up. I'm betting a truck took the corner a little tight and its side mirror caught the banner. But enough of that depressing stuff! This project actually worked out well from a traffic perspective. There are only a few problems, so let's see if you can spot them.    Only three problems! Not bad at all.  Since someone asked about sign recycling, this is a recycled sign. You can see where the previous sign had bolt holes, and it was just cleaned and re-sheeted.  Here's one of my traffic monitors for the adjacent Arrigoni Bridge project. They're intended for freeway use, but putting one mid-block works decently well. While the streetscape was ongoing, though, the construction equipment really confused the poor thing.  And that'll do it for Portland.
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Dec 2, 2011 01:02
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Install Gentoo posted:And another picture of the guardrail near an accident : That looks like weathering steel, though. Are you sure it's paint?
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Dec 2, 2011 01:07
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Cichlidae posted:But enough of that depressing stuff! This project actually worked out well from a traffic perspective. There are only a few problems, so let's see if you can spot them. For those of us playing at home, can you list what the problems are and spoiler them?
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Dec 2, 2011 01:14
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Cichlidae posted:That looks like weathering steel, though. Are you sure it's paint? It's a very uniform brown color and doesn't look the rusting stuff you showed in Connecticut. I've never seen stuff like you posted from the small towns along the side of the road, and since they've been using this brown guardrail for a long time now if it was going to happen I think it already would have. You also never see new pieces of the guardrail looking different from old ones. Perhaps it's weathering steel that's also painted or something? Some kind of crazy weathering steel plating on normal steel innards? Or maybe the Turnpike Authority is out there replacing the guardrail preemptively for some reason. While looking up what exactly they use I found a project listed in the NJTA 2008-2009 Projects list for $11.5 million on "This project will replace all weathering steel guide rail posts between MP 127 and MP 172 on the Parkway, with galvanized protected weathering steel posts. The existing weathering steel posts are severely corroded and do not function as intended." https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/stimnjeconomynjtaprojects.pdf No mention is made of projects to replace the guard rail itself though. Edit: and the Standard Drawings all specify "GARDEN STATE PARKWAY ELEMENTS AND POSTS ARE TO BE. WEATHERING STEEL AND HOT DIP GALVANIZED 6"MlN. ABOVE PROPOSED GROUND LINE" https://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/StandardDrawings_Tpk-std-drw-GR08.pdf And a study on galvanized steel bolts used with weathering steel things was published in 1998 and stated that as of then the GSP had used them for up to 15 years already, meaning by now they've used weathering steel almost exclusively since 1983 http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=NACE-98344&soc=NACE&speAppNameCookie=ONEPETRO Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 2, 2011 |
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Dec 2, 2011 01:35
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What are the rules on speed surveys? Specifically, where on the road does the speed have to be measured? (I'm in California so requirements may well be different here than in CT, but this is only for curiosity's sake anyway). There's a stretch of road I travel frequently that has no speed limit, presumably because that little stretch cuts into and back out of the city line, and the city never bothered with a speed survey for it. Today I noticed they've run a set of those pneumatic rubber sensors across the road, so I'm assuming they're doing a speed survey. However, they stuck them in the only curve in this otherwise straight stretch of road; people might normally drive 45 to 50 on this stretch, but at the curve (which happens at the beginning/end depending on your direction) they're going 20-25 (the curve already has a yellow sign recommending 20mph).
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Dec 2, 2011 02:07
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Volmarias posted:For those of us playing at home, can you list what the problems are and spoiler them? Sure. 1. They used double posts on the far leg. 2. The sign behind the STOP sign obscures its shape. 3. The warning strip shouldn't be that long. The ramp needs to be redesigned. Choadmaster posted:What are the rules on speed surveys? Specifically, where on the road does the speed have to be measured? (I'm in California so requirements may well be different here than in CT, but this is only for curiosity's sake anyway). There aren't any "rules" per se, it's all engineering judgment. Obviously whoever set those up wants a low speed limit. I'd encourage you to set some land speed records over those things!
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Dec 2, 2011 02:11
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Choadmaster posted:Today I noticed they've run a set of those pneumatic rubber sensors across the road, so I'm assuming they're doing a speed survey. Might not be a speed survey but just a measure of traffic volume/vehicle-miles traveled. In Ohio, where I live, the state calculates VMT estimates for every county annually. Then we use the numbers to do fun statistics.
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Dec 2, 2011 02:49
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One day a lovely stagnant town will develop a sidewalk improvement so wonderful, it will magically revitalize the town. Until then we get 3 flooded thousands of dollars each garbage cans and poorly thought out stamped concrete...
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Dec 2, 2011 02:59
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Baronjutter posted:One day a lovely stagnant town will develop a sidewalk improvement so wonderful, it will magically revitalize the town. Until then we get 3 flooded thousands of dollars each garbage cans and poorly thought out stamped concrete... Down the road, a gas station owner wonders why we put "ENTER ONLY" signs at the entrance to his driveway. A pedestrian trips over a solar-powered light and curses. Later that evening, a homeless man stares at the $5,000 flagpoles every 100 feet and wonders how many sandwiches they could have paid for. So it goes.
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Dec 2, 2011 03:39
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Why are those garbage cans so expensive? They look like they should have cost a couple hundred bucks, at most.
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Dec 2, 2011 03:51
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Baronjutter posted:One day a lovely stagnant town will develop a sidewalk improvement so wonderful, it will magically revitalize the town. Until then we get 3 flooded thousands of dollars each garbage cans and poorly thought out stamped concrete... Personally, I blame those architectural renderings presented to elected officials that show tons of people enjoying the sidewalks in cafe benches, walking their dogs, and carrying shopping bags. No one ever really stops to think: "Given the stores currently located, why are these people here? How did they get here? Why are they going to stay and street shop?" One of my hometown favorites is "Downtown Dadeland" from Miami. Dadeland is an interior facing suburban shopping mall that is best known among old Miamians for being a great spot for dove hunting 40 years ago. The city powers that be however decided that it was going to house all the nightlife for the economic powerhouse that it fed. Artists rendering:  How it is now: http://g.co/maps/6p83p all the stores in the interior area keep going out of business
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Dec 2, 2011 03:58
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Cichlidae posted:Sure. Was there no double post on the other leg? I thought thought the picture just cut it off.
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Dec 2, 2011 04:06
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Volmarias posted:Was there no double post on the other leg? I thought thought the picture just cut it off. Nope, just on the one leg. They took an existing two-post sign and stuck a one-post sign to it. FORUMS USER 1135 posted:Personally, I blame those architectural renderings presented to elected officials that show tons of people enjoying the sidewalks in cafe benches, walking their dogs, and carrying shopping bags. No one ever really stops to think: "Given the stores currently located, why are these people here? How did they get here? Why are they going to stay and street shop?" Very true. It's so easy to sway someone's opinion with a pretty video. I try to use my powers for good, though!
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Dec 2, 2011 13:28
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Baronjutter posted:That's crazy! Those are functional safety devices, not decorations. Also the rust look like poo poo. It's like building a bridge or something out of rust. What the hell that is insane. So I guess all the ones where I live are galvanized? It's supposed to just be surface rust. It does get used in architecture, like this is the John Deere headquarters building:  I guess the problem is when you put out hundreds of miles of it in a road environment, it doesn't work so well.
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Dec 2, 2011 14:57
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Cichlidae posted:
I'm guessing those aren't trash cans but planters minus the pots which have probably been removed for the winter. Here's a pathetic case of blogger trying to play traffic engineer from urbanmilwaukee.com. I don't know where to start critiquing him... quote:Last week, the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) gave a presentation regarding the possibility of adding a bike trail on the Hoan Bridge. The DOT laid out five potential alternatives, that covered a wide range of costs, and potential impacts such as traffic congestion. Neutrino fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Dec 2, 2011 |
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Dec 2, 2011 16:29
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Neutrino posted:I'm guessing those aren't trash cans but planters minus the pots which have probably been removed for the winter.
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Dec 2, 2011 17:28
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FORUMS USER 1135 posted:One of my hometown favorites is "Downtown Dadeland" from Miami. Dadeland is an interior facing suburban shopping mall that is best known among old Miamians for being a great spot for dove hunting 40 years ago. The city powers that be however decided that it was going to house all the nightlife for the economic powerhouse that it fed. They made a few key mistakes in their plan to make it attractive for pedestrians. First of all the sidewalks needed to be wider and the arcades not taking up the entire sidewalk. Second they needed to make the street feel more pedestrian. Low curbs and sidewalks that seem to fluidly change to the parking surface. Next they needed to get rid of all the view obstructing pillars in the architecture, so anyone standing on the street can, at a glance, see all the shops around them. At the moment it's a cramped dark tunnel of an arcade.
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Dec 2, 2011 17:40
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GWBBQ posted:They're definitely trash cans, Stamford has them all over downtown. Here's one with trash visible in it http://g.co/maps/76q8f The dead giveaway is the platform without a trash hole, the height and the fact that there are three adjacent units. It would be a major screw-up to have three trash cans placed like that even outside of a stadium exit. Metal Planters
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Dec 2, 2011 17:44
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Baronjutter posted:They made a few key mistakes in their plan to make it attractive for pedestrians. First of all the sidewalks needed to be wider and the arcades not taking up the entire sidewalk. Second they needed to make the street feel more pedestrian. Low curbs and sidewalks that seem to fluidly change to the parking surface. Next they needed to get rid of all the view obstructing pillars in the architecture, so anyone standing on the street can, at a glance, see all the shops around them. Reminds me of Main Street on Roosevelt Island in NYC:  
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Dec 2, 2011 18:45
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Oh yeah I'd feel safe walking there at night... with the poor visibility and all those dark places for mal-intents to hide.
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Dec 2, 2011 19:19
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Weird thing I noticed today: http://g.co/maps/4wa5c Check out the street view at the starting point and at each of the two waypoints (orient the view along the route as driven). This is apparently the "suggested" route to get to I-695 from there. It's certainly better than the direct route (and the one I had to fight gmaps to show), which is going through that big traffic circle a few blocks north of the starting point, and congested as all hell from 8am-10pm. (Still beats the alternative of a 5-way signal with extra signals in the middle of the intersection, I did a post about that a few weeks ago.) No one actually drives this way, for several reasons: 1) The E-W portion of Fairmount is one of the main entrances into the mall, and regardless of the light timing, you're going to be waiting to turn left there for quite a while during evening rush hour. Considering this is the route out of the largest business district in the whole county, that ain't happening. 2) That may actually be the reason for the double-left at the Fairmount-Fairmount intersection, since there's not going to be that much traffic getting through the Towsontown-Fairmount left turn, being a single lane. 3) It's right by a bunch of County administrative buildings, and you can bet your rear end they're radaring those 30mph side streets. I think there may even be speed cameras there now. Now go back to the map, center it on MD-45 (York Road) and look on the west side of your screen. See that big, 6-lane boulevard? That's the Towson Bypass, and while it does get used for bypassing traffic, even during the busiest times of day it's only mildly used. The worst congestion is 5:05-5:15pm when all the county buildings let out, and after a couple of light cycles everything clears up. There's even a handy route to 695! (Which, by the way, is a really weird interchange, but it works well.) York & Bosley also backs up though, so it's not really that great an alternative. I guess the signs were probably put up to try to get people off of York in general, and maybe to set up that speed trap. There should probably be a question in here, so What are your thoughts on why they'd try to route traffic through those particular streets? That all being said, there's an interchange which sees almost zero traffic at any time of day and has become my favourite escape route for when I need to go east. (And then there's my preferred route for getting home during rush hour, which looks convoluted but is pretty nice for avoiding traffic and is usually faster due to the limited number of signals.)
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Dec 2, 2011 20:55
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Bored with US 220, I took US 52 home from WV to SC after thanksgiving and got surprise SPUI'd in Salisbury, NC! http://g.co/maps/ymptd It took over half an hour to explain to grandma why one stoplight made me freak out like a little girl at a Biebs concert.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:53
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So, I know the AZ143N->AZ202W ramp came up earlier in the thread for being dumb and lovely because it had meters. Drove through it this week, and guess what, no meters anymore! Still signed for them but the meter lamp / post has been long removed from the look of things. Also, they've totally updated the meter behavior all around the state. No longer does a meter only operate at half speed if cars only line up at it in one lane; it will double-time the lane with traffic if there's only one line.
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Dec 3, 2011 00:04
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Neutrino posted:I'm guessing those aren't trash cans but planters minus the pots which have probably been removed for the winter. Whatever they're supposed to be, they're mosquito breeders now. Roflex posted:What are your thoughts on why they'd try to route traffic through those particular streets? First off, if they're trying to get all traffic onto I-695 using the same exit, they'll likely pick the nearest exit to downtown: 27. Rather than routing the traffic through the traffic oval and the narrow downtown streets, they picked the nearest alternative, which happens to be Fairmount Avenue. As to your route home being convoluted, my route from Rhode Island to Connecticut puts me on Route 3 three separate times, and Route 138 thrice as well. The Proc posted:Bored with US 220, I took US 52 home from WV to SC after thanksgiving and got surprise SPUI'd in Salisbury, NC! I know, aren't they great?  IOwnCalculus posted:Drove through it this week, and guess what, no meters anymore! Thank god. I wonder how many geriatrics got fatally rear-ended there before they figured that one out.
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Dec 3, 2011 03:59
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I guess I'll ask my question in the stupid questions thread here too, though I dunno if this is part of traffic engineering exactly: Recently most crosswalk lights have a counter during the time that the red hand is flashing. At the same time though, that period of time has gotten way WAY the gently caress longer, and the white "walk" part is now five seconds long or less. According to the instructions you're only supposed to enter the intersection during the white part, but how does that even work? Is this set up the way it is for some cover-your-rear end type situation I am not aware of, or is it playing some kind of weird mind-game with me or something?
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Dec 7, 2011 00:07
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Samurai Sanders posted:I guess I'll ask my question in the stupid questions thread here too, though I dunno if this is part of traffic engineering exactly: First, the reason the time is longer isn't because they're countdown heads. It's because the walking speed we design for has dropped, from 4.0 feet per second to 3.5. Older signals were designed for 5 fps or more. When they're redesigned to bring them up to standards, the flashing don't walk time goes up to standards, too. Second, the walk time shouldn't be any shorter, though the solid don't walk time should be a little longer. Maybe another state deals with it a different way, but we almost always give 4-7 seconds walk interval (7 is for places where slower pedestrians are likely or the pole is far from the ramp), (L/3.5)-4 seconds for flashing don't walk (the countdown period), and 4 seconds for solid don't walk before the next phase comes in.
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Dec 7, 2011 01:16
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Cichlidae posted:First, the reason the time is longer isn't because they're countdown heads. It's because the walking speed we design for has dropped, from 4.0 feet per second to 3.5. Older signals were designed for 5 fps or more. When they're redesigned to bring them up to standards, the flashing don't walk time goes up to standards, too. edit: why not just have the "walk" sign with the counter telling you how much longer it will be before it ends? Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 01:22
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Samurai Sanders posted:Why set up a system with instructions seemingly designed to be ignored? Lawsuits.
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Dec 7, 2011 02:02
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Cichlidae posted:Thank god. I wonder how many geriatrics got fatally rear-ended there before they figured that one out. Not enough  And on crosswalks, as I am the kind of weakwilled person who will almost always only enter on a walk signal, I would like a countdown added to it (not in place of the countdown on the flashing don't walk) so I know if I need to hustle my rear end to get there in time to enter on a walk versus OMG JAYWALKING I'M GOING TO JAIL
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Dec 7, 2011 02:09
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Samurai Sanders posted:edit: why not just have the "walk" sign with the counter telling you how much longer it will be before it ends? Because it'll only be on for 4-7 seconds. You shouldn't need to know how long is left; if it's white when you get there, go, else stop. We don't put counters on green lights for the same reason. The countdown during the flashing don't walk phase is to let you know, if you're a faster walker, you can probably go for it, and to fight anxiety for people who are afraid of getting run over. There's nothing illegal about entering an intersection while it's flashing don't walk (at least not here); just don't be still in the intersection when it turns solid red... after the 4-second grace period.
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Dec 7, 2011 02:50
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Cichlidae posted:Because it'll only be on for 4-7 seconds. You shouldn't need to know how long is left; if it's white when you get there, go, else stop. We don't put counters on green lights for the same reason. The countdown during the flashing don't walk phase is to let you know, if you're a faster walker, you can probably go for it, and to fight anxiety for people who are afraid of getting run over. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 02:55
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Samurai Sanders posted:Hm, lemme rephrase a bit: Who decided that the solid walk light was going to be only 4-7 seconds long, and why? It's not a practical issue or anything, I'm just curious, I have been for years, ever since they installed those countdown things and it showed me just how long that flashing red period was. It's clear that thought was put into how long the flashing down't walk period was, so I'm wondering what the thought was behind the length of the walk sign. I think it's less a matter of deciding that the walk light's only going to be 4-7 seconds long and more a matter of actual traffic phases. Let's say that a road is 4 lanes wide, with no turn or acceleration lanes, and that the traffic light is red for 25 seconds. The minimum width of a through lane is 10 feet, and lane markings are 6" wide (IIRC). Add a 3' shoulder on each side, and the total width of the road is (3'+6"+10'+6"+10'+18"+10'+6"+10'+6"+3') = (3'*2+10'*4+0.5'*4+1.5') = 49.5' from sidewalk to sidewalk. (We'll ignore the time it takes to step off of and onto the curb.) Since the designers are assuming 3.5 feet per second walking speed, the time to cross the street is 14.14 seconds, which they have to round up to 15. That's the absolute minimum that the flashing Don't Walk hand can be up (because they have to allow for people who entered the crosswalk at the last possible moment during the Walk signal). There's a 4-second grace period after the flashing Don't Walk turns to the solid Don't Walk, and the solid Don't Walk doesn't turn into the Walk signal until a second into the phase. So the walk signals look like this: 25-second cycle phase starts Don't Walk (S): 1 second Walk: 5 seconds Don't Walk (F): 15 seconds Don't Walk (S): 4 seconds Phase ends TLDR: The length of the Walk signal isn't consciously determined; it's what's left over in the phase after the Don't Walk times are taken out. If the phase were extended to 30 seconds, that Walk signal could go up to 10 seconds, and so on. It's not unheard of, on signaled intersections between very busy streets and very not-busy streets, to have stop phases on the cross street that last up to a minute, which would give you a 40-second Walk signal given the conditions above. SneezeOfTheDecade fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 03:45
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