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Soviets posted:I'd love to risk my sanity in these threads, (especially the fan-fiction thread. Those people fascinate me.) but I can't find them. Any chance for links? You may also enjoy the Fandom!Secrets thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3271075
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Dec 4, 2011 18:18
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e:f,b The Bibeau thread takes a little time to gather steam, but holy gently caress when it does.
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Dec 4, 2011 18:22
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Knight of the
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To The Saddest Rhino, My work shift begins at 8 AM to 4 PM at a 24-hour business. I arrived at 4 AM just because I couldn't sleep and my house doesn't have a working heater during this cold winter, and thus, relieved the coworker before me four hours before his shift meant to end. Suffice to say, I caught up with the entire story of Henriette, and I'm so glad you have made my extra unpaid time at work so worth it! (Also, that screen-drawn dragon doodle thing is more cuter than it has to be. So unfortunate that it represents why people can't have nice things.  )
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Dec 4, 2011 18:34
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mad carl posted:In one of our "pals" phases I met up with her in Japan, but it was a lot more difficult to find her behavior hysterical in person when she expected everyone she was with to carry her bags, spot her money she didn't pay back, and stand there while she had a sobbing fit because she couldn't buy a jacket she wanted for her doll. She also had terrible manners and didn't understand why everyone in Japan was so mean to her, which is actually another theme in J-rock fangirls that I think is pretty weird. I would love to hear more about what happens when these people encounter actual Japan, because (just in case anyone had any doubt) this kind of thing is just as alien to mainstream Japanese people as it is to mainstream Americans. I once had to rescue my boss from a couple of very persistent otaku who had cornered him in a bar (here in the US) and grilled him about various anime that he had never even heard of and wound up getting fairly nasty and insulting when he tried to talk about what he was really interested in (US sports), and it was pretty much the only time I've seen him genuinely freaked out. I'm very tempted to let a Japanese acquaintance see this thread to find out what they think, but I don't want them to think I weirder than they already do....
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Dec 4, 2011 18:59
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Phuzzy posted:BJD stands for Ball Jointed Dolls, which are little resin moneypits that otaku buy and then turn into literal fetishes for their needs. A 'proper Dollfie' could set you back anywhere from 800 to 1200 dollars. I was talking to a jeweller artist a while ago in the markets, and she said that working with resin is a giant pain and that you need an outdoor workshop to not die. Otherwise I swear I would be all over manufacturing these goddamn dolls, they look like even bigger cashcows than Real-Born dolls.
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Dec 4, 2011 19:22
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Corridor posted:When you say 'doll hobby', do you mean spending money on dolls or actually making the loving things? Because if it's the latter I'd love to get in on that. No I don't make them, but I do think it would be fun to try someday. Are you talking about artist dolls? There is a quickly growing trend of American and European sculptors getting into making resin BJD that draw heavily off of Western mythology and style. A few of them are total crap but I'm seeing some really nice stuff show up. mad carl posted:BJD People: Part 2 This is very accurate and I agree about the personal investment. Its that type of investment that leads into the whole calling them by their names thing, I'm not going to call a doll that took loads of money, time, and effort to customize and put together "it". The slang part is also true; "Kiyoshi doesn't like that coat" means "I bought my doll a new coat and he looks like crap in it." Its just a fun tongue in cheek let's pretend thing and the dolls sometimes look so lifelike and human that owners will sort of fall into anthropomorphising without intending to. Its also a holdover trope from the "doll-souls" thing that Volks (the maker of the Super Dollife brand) really likes to play up. Volks still does this but they're not the biggest or most popular doll company anymore; this is another reason the spiritual thing is on decline and is mostly seen among the doll owners who will only buy Volks dolls. Volks is also partly responsible for the lolita crossover, some of the limited outfits they've sold are designed and made by Big Name lolita clothes makers. (The other reason is that lolitas like to carry dolls around as part of their infantilization fetish they have going on, but that's a whole nother discussion.) As a side note- Jpop/Jrock people are INSANE and should not be engaged with under any circumstances. Phuzzy posted:BJD stands for Ball Jointed Dolls, which are little resin moneypits that otaku buy and then turn into literal fetishes for their needs. A 'proper Dollfie' could set you back anywhere from 800 to 1200 dollars. They've gotten cheaper nowadays, Chinese companies are popping them out for $100-$300 by the truckload. They are still money sinks though. As for the lolita there are several types of it, but in general it means dressing up like a little girl with loads of lace and frills, then walking around in public looking like a massive pastel cupcake so everyone can stare at you. Gothic lolita means dressing up like a little girl who is about to attend a funeral.
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Dec 4, 2011 19:24
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The Saddest Rhino, your whole story is amazing and I love every installment.Deadly Chlorine posted:From what I've heard though, the bigger BJD and Lolita communities are completely batshit insane and take offence at literally everything. I've noticed that in soulbonder communities too, when I've glanced at them. It's insulting to call the voices in someone's head alters, it's prejudiced to draw parallels with DID, it's bigoted to suggest talking to a doctor, etc etc etc. There's a serious social justice thing going on among a lot of soulbonders. There's also a trend of implying or outright stating that thinking soulbonding is a delusion is as bad as being homophobic and transphobic, which honestly pisses me off. Canyons of Static posted:Oh and there was specifically a rule about how human penises had to look, I think. You couldn't put like a dog penis on a human or whatever. However, penises could be "retractable" as long as they appeared to be human. I hoped for hilarity and I was not disappointed.
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Dec 4, 2011 20:05
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Casca posted:As for the lolita there are several types of it, but in general it means dressing up like a little girl with loads of lace and frills, then walking around in public looking like a massive pastel cupcake so everyone can stare at you. Gothic lolita means dressing up like a little girl who is about to attend a funeral. At first I sort of wanted to correct you about this, but I realize we look pretty ridiculous to most people no matter what. Some styles look a tad bit less ridiculous than others, but in general it's a bit extravagant. The problem is, yes, many lolitas get extremely offended when anyone implies they look sort of out of the ordinary. You kind of have to anticipate that you are dressed very fancy and different and people are going to notice and ask. I understand getting insulted if someone mocks you outright, though it's best to expect it and take it in stride if you're going to get into this hobby. And God help you if you call lolitas ageplayers.  Out of context that sentence looks like an oxymoron, but they are separate things.I've considered before making an A/T but I'm not sure if there would be enough interest. Plus I don't have too many interesting crazy-people stories from real life.
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Dec 4, 2011 20:54
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Spitball Trough, I'll try to include some more otaku culture shock stories in my next post, which is also going to include vampires, werewolves, the guy who thought he was a virus, and some details about overlap with furries. Casma: That's a good point about Volks no longer being dominant and that being a cause for the 'souls' thing dying out. Japan's take on the whole doll souls thing seems to me to be heavily related to Shinto. Sudden Guts Pill posted:And God help you if you call lolitas ageplayers. Call lolitas ageplayers, huh? You've been a great help, thank you! Honestly, I really enjoy the style of lolita fashion and I love seeing people do things that are ostentatious and different in just about any context. It's a funny thing about communities of people deliberately doing things that are different that they love to get really angry when people ask them about it. I've had a lot of people try to bite my head off for that sort of thing.
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Dec 4, 2011 22:05
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mad carl posted:Spitball Trough, I'll try to include some more otaku culture shock stories in my next post, which is also going to include vampires, werewolves, the guy who thought he was a virus, and some details about overlap with furries. Now this I gotta hear about because it sounds so incredibly  .Casca posted:(The other reason is that lolitas like to carry dolls around as part of their infantilization fetish they have going on, but that's a whole nother discussion.) Oh. I do wanna hear about this as well because it does kinda sound kinda interesting. 
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Dec 4, 2011 22:16
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So since the thread has turned to otakukin, how about we discuss the alleged founder of the whole thing? I never knew him* by any other name than "Nina", but I kept in touch with him for years when younger, at first because it was something a friend was into (that was eventually grown out of, thank god), and later because the man was just flat-out insane. But the hilarious, watch-safely-from-across-the-tracks kind of insanity. Depending on when you asked him, he'd either be proud to have "invented" otakukin, or ashamed that it became "a bunch of children trying to play at something bigger than them to feel special, since mommy and daddy don't think they are". The strangest thing was that he'd wander so close to rational behavior and thinking at times but turned away the introspection at juuuuuuust the last second and usually went off onto a new flight of fancy instead of realizing how completely batshit he sounded. One of the first things I recall learning was that the late Portal of Evil had a subforum or something devoted entirely to him, and he thrived on this. He even linked me to it, and until it closed down, I'm pretty sure it was still there occasionally getting a post or two. There was a weird relationship with trolls - he'd put up this giant public face of hating the attention and wanting to be left alone, posts would be deleted frequently or hidden or he'd conduct Stalinist purges of his friendlist to keep only the 'true followers' able to see things that kept leaking... but he told me plenty of times that he thought trolls brought "a good balance" to the internet and seemed to love PoE and SA, even if he was too afraid to ever touch either. I recall him being much more bipolar on ED but that's another story. By the time he left Livejournal a few years back now, he'd gone through two or three more names than the ones listed in that link above, started at least one side community that he would abandon in "disgust" like the original, and become paranoid to the point that he'd throw someone out and then invite them back a day or two later in what was probably some sort of hazing ritual of his own devising. It was insane and he somehow never suspected me before one of the purges eventually caught me, probably by luck. He deleted all LJ accounts within a few months anyway and moved to some pay-only journal site I can't remember the name of. * In case someone tries getting on me for pronouns: yeah, he went by "Nina" in all things, but he was wildly loving transphobic, I'll probably get into it later. Long story short I just mentally classify him as a guy and my pronouns are gonna stick with that for ease of use!
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Dec 4, 2011 22:22
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Casca posted:(The other reason is that lolitas like to carry dolls around as part of their infantilization fetish they have going on, but that's a whole nother discussion.) Not sure how I missed this but this is generally definitely not a thing. There are lolitas who are infantalists or ageplayers but that isn't why most lolitas are into it.
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Dec 5, 2011 00:54
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Sudden Guts Pill posted:Not sure how I missed this but this is generally definitely not a thing. There are lolitas who are infantalists or ageplayers but that isn't why most lolitas are into it. There are also non-lolitas who carry the dolls everywhere. This isn't really a new thing--in the 1920's many of the flappers carried large dolls with them to the speakeasies.
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Dec 5, 2011 01:29
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Oh lord, do any other lolitas remember when the then-owner of the main LJ community turned out to be one of those adult baby people? That really didn't help the image of lolitas as ageplayers.
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Dec 5, 2011 01:33
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21st Cherry boy posted:Oh lord, do any other lolitas remember when the then-owner of the main LJ community turned out to be one of those adult baby people? That really didn't help the image of lolitas as ageplayers. Yes I do! That was the great Megan Maude Adult Baby Wank of... poo poo I don't even remember when that went down but some canny internet detective found the then-mod/owner of the main English EGL community did adult baby molding/pin ups that also surprise, surprise included her BJD in the mix too. She said she did it only for pay and that she didn't actually participate in diaper related fetish groups or whatever. Pretty harsh outing but I personally don't judge her if she did or didn't, however I will judge her on the quality of her indies 'brand' lolita clothing which is ordinary at best. I swear anyone who gets a tiny bit of moderator's power on EGL they turn into loving Mussolini within a mater of hours. The thing is with lolita is that it attracts all sorts so there's a few well adjusted opened minded non otaku, non anime watching folk with the regular amount of mental illness one would find in a large population of women and handful of men. And then there's the hyper conservative super prudes who think we should all be sexless, innocent lovelies and everything should be sunshine and magic an no one should be mean to anyone. Naturally there's a cell of post 4chan internet tough girls who love nothing more than to troll the 'lifestyle' crowd into a conniption. Some of them are also a mix of animu loving otakutards with that and then there's your garden variety of otaku spergettes which is a greeeeeeeat mix. loli_secrets is just a troll community anyway, a lot of those posts are either thinly veiled vendettas or lies designed to get peoples' dander up.
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Dec 5, 2011 02:07
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I never heard of lolita until I actually visited Harajuku one fine, mistaken day. I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick to those of you in the thread who are involved in the lolita scene, but good gd those are the butt-ugliest outfits I've ever seen in my entire life. A big part of it is difference in taste (I tend to like sleek, streamlined, simple outfits in dark colors), but even the expensive lolita dresses I saw were made of poor-quality fabric and just indulged in ruffles and decoration for its own sake, not to enhance the garment or its wearer.
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Dec 5, 2011 02:27
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Fascinator posted:I never heard of lolita until I actually visited Harajuku one fine, mistaken day. I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick to those of you in the thread who are involved in the lolita scene, but good gd those are the butt-ugliest outfits I've ever seen in my entire life.
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Dec 5, 2011 03:21
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I'd love to discuss these things more with people, but I feel like this lolita discussion is turning into a bit of a derail. I don't want to distract from the soulbonding/delusion stories too much. It might be best to make an A/T. I'll try to get an OP put together in the next few days and I'll post the link here when it's made.
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Dec 5, 2011 03:49
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Maybe some of you from the community can answer this? Why is it that people like the doll fans or lolitas all seem so angry and fighty all the time? I mean, I hang out with people who punch and get punched in the face as a hobby and they are less confrontational than these LJ groups seem to be.
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Dec 5, 2011 04:39
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When you have an incredibly niche group with a tiny, mostly inbred populace, you're going to get one of two things: a) everyone realizes they'll have to deal with most of the same crew to talk about this hobby, is extra-polite and tries to keep things civil (a good long-term solution although it can have speedbumps) OR b) someone will try to be king of the hill and then it becomes Lord of the Flies as everyone wants the motherfucking conch and if your head has to be split open to get it well gently caress YOU BUDDY and the whole thing is anarchy and drama forevermore, maybe splitting some of the quieter people off into a seperate group that tries to be A and might succeed. All it takes is finding some way to feel superior to another person in the group to validate yourself. "Well my outfits are more authentic than yours/I paid for a better brand/Man that bitch did not paint the doll properly" etc. and you're off to the races.
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Dec 5, 2011 04:45
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Ghostlight posted:Harajuku is internationally famous as a boiling pit of ostensibly terrible fashion choices so surely gothic lolita can't be the butt-ugliest as it's one of the few fashions originating there that's actually escaped it. You'd think that, but nope. Even the Nazi-themed leather catsuit I saw was more aesthetically-pleasing. More offensive politically and personally, definitely, but better-designed.
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Dec 5, 2011 04:54
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Fascinator posted:Ok I guess that doesn't really sound like I'm defending them anyway. Oh well.
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Dec 5, 2011 05:29
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Duet posted:The strangest thing was that he'd wander so close to rational behavior and thinking at times but turned away the introspection at juuuuuuust the last second and usually went off onto a new flight of fancy instead of realizing how completely batshit he sounded. This is something of a theme I've been seeing in these stories - it's like the "Dunning-Kruger region" of development has a sort of cliffside at the outer edge, where you can get close enough to realize how much of what you think is true will be invalidated if you keep learning, and how stupid that's going to make you feel - so you decide that what's over the cliff is the incorrect thing, that that Dunning-Krugeria is the place to be.
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Dec 5, 2011 06:02
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Casca posted:
So they just dress up that way for attention? There's no organic growth or underlying shared cultural capital that lead to this subculture?
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Dec 5, 2011 06:13
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ashgromnies posted:So they just dress up that way for attention? There's no organic growth or underlying shared cultural capital that lead to this subculture? If you ask most lolitas they'll say they wear it because they like the way it looks, which would also be my answer. Some do it for attention, certainly, but the most of the fun lies in composing outfits and feelin' purty. And as said above, I'll hopefully have a separate A/T for this in the next few days so any questions can be asked there.
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Dec 5, 2011 06:41
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I feel like this is one of those situations where denying certain things about the origins of lolita fashion or trying to just make it about cutesy dresses or whatever is sort of unfortunate. Japan, originator of the lolita fashion stuff we're talking about here, has a less than stellar record as far as what westerners consider to be basic women's rights. A lot of times, it has been my impression from the girls and women I knew while over there, that Japanese women find themselves herded into very strict gender roles, and many go through a period of either "subverting" or wrestling uncomfortably with what is expected on the way to having an identity as an adult female. There have been examples of this exact variety of sexual identity politics in Japanese culture for a while. While there are probably similar examples dating back much further, a very illustrative one involves what I've read regarding the originators of the ganguro/yamamaba thing which has gained internet notoriety over the past few years. Apparently, these girls were originally simply reacting to the reality that as teen girls and young women riding the subways or trains of Japan, they were going to inevitably, at some point, be touched or molested against their will. Their reaction was to make a fashion out of being as repulsive or frightening or simply far removed from standard beauty ideals as applied to young women by Japanese society as possible. Of course, this door swings both ways: the yamamba or ganguro look was almost instantly sexualized or fetishized by Japanese men's magazines. Similarly, despite, or regardless of whatever western lolita fashion fans say or believe about lolita fashion, it is a product of these same sexual and cultural forces that caused this look to develop among a certain subset of young Japanese women. Could be a subversion of the widespread fetishization of infantile females by Japanese popular cultures, could be a way for many of these girls to feel in power of their own sexuality in a society where, let's face it, child pornography was legal until 1999 (seriously,) could be any number of things. And I am definitely not saying that people who like lolita fashion, whether in western countries or in Japan, are "ageplayers" or hosed up or anything of the sort. Just that denying it's origins and making it seriously just about really frilly dresses sort of does a disservice to this cultural offshoot as a whole, in my opinion. Sorry, kind of long, but a thought I've had about the whole thing for a while.
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Dec 5, 2011 06:54
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hallo spacedog posted:I feel like this is one of those situations where denying certain things about the origins of lolita fashion or trying to just make it about cutesy dresses or whatever is sort of unfortunate. Oh, I wasn't denying the origins about it. Actually I'm glad you posted this story because it's very interesting, and I kind of wish I'd had the wherewithal to do it myself. I was more talking about where the fashion is now just in America. Do you mind if I quote you at any point? You put it far better than I ever could.
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Dec 5, 2011 06:59
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Sudden Guts Pill posted:Oh, I wasn't denying the origins about it. Actually I'm glad you posted this story because it's very interesting, and I kind of wish I'd had the wherewithal to do it myself. I was more talking about where the fashion is now just in America. Do you mind if I quote you at any point? You put it far better than I ever could. I don't mind at all. Japanese subculture can be very interesting because whereas in America, as a teen you're conditioned to and expected to divide up into a certain sub-group ("jocks", "nerds", "band geeks", "drama geeks" etc etc) which may to some extent determine your social hierarchy within the greater school but within which you can still be socially active and part of a group or culture based around having similar interests or values, in Japan you are as young people consistently divided by gender and gender alone, and in terms of dress, speech, action, values, future dreams and goals, interests and basically every other category imaginable, and you are expected to conform to the narrow confines of this category lest you become basically outcast. Bullying of people who, for whatever real or perceived reason, don't fit in with their peers. So seeing subcultures crop up DESPITE great pressure to conform, instead of BECAUSE of great pressure to be entirely unique, is fascinating.
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Dec 5, 2011 07:09
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Syrg Sapphire posted:... I think that first sentence nails it more than anything. Even people who punch/get punched in the face as a hobby can be less outwardly aggressive because they know they can punch people in the face pretty well, and nearly everyone cares about punching in the face on some level. Meanwhile in these communities, one trend I've noticed among all these posts is that their lives are basically empty except for their escapism, though which one causes the other is debatable. As a result, their escapism is the only thing that validates their lives, so anything that threatens it will be met with hostility or dismissal. If it's someone from an out-group, well maybe they just don't get it. But if it's someone from an in-group, they get it. Of course, if they get it better than someone else, that someone else doesn't get it quite as well, and they have no way to cope with that except for escapism. But they've already escaped, and they can't escape their escapism, so they fight. Seems like if you're in the mix that deep, your back would constantly be against the wall.
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Dec 5, 2011 07:23
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cubivore posted:You know, I personally don't like lolita at all, but I think we can accept that different people have different tastes, and some people just really like stupid overpriced ruffley poo poo. Uh, I didn't say they should all be shot or sent to a camp or something. I specifically said that a big part of my dislike was simply a matter of having very different taste. I can think that someone's taste is aesthetically revolting and at the same time accept that that's their thing and not really think any less of them as people. I just went through my Harajuku pictures again and I wish Imgur wasn't loving up for me, some of those cosplay pics I got were just bizarre.
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Dec 5, 2011 07:34
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I've recently gotten into BJD, and I'm even part of a local doll club.  Like others I'm in it because I like making outfits and being creative with the dolls, not because I want to take pictures of my dolls having gay vampire sex and posting it to LJ.That's another girl in my doll club. Dear God, so many pictures. 
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Dec 5, 2011 07:46
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The weirdest lolita self-validation behavior I ever saw was a couple of girls who went around judging whether or not other anorexics were legit and bragging about their own eating disorders. Constantly.Casca posted:They've gotten cheaper nowadays, Chinese companies are popping them out for $100-$300 by the truckload. This was a source of some hilarious drama for a while. The Chinese companies kept making dolls with stolen molds that were toxic, falling apart, full of resin bubbles (which basically just create tons of weird unsightly disease-like holes in the doll) and people were buying them up, rabidly defending the companies, and making a huge scene about it. For a while there was a ton of forum drama where the crazies were calling everyone else "Volks elitists." Fascinator posted:Uh, I didn't say they should all be shot or sent to a camp or something.
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Dec 5, 2011 07:47
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mad carl posted:The lolita martyrs of 2011. NEVER AGAIN THE BURN TIMES First they came for the ruffles, and I did not speak because I was a grown woman with mature fashion sense and no desire to infantilize myself.
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Dec 5, 2011 07:49
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Thanks for all the comments, folks  unfortunately Jake Long, American Dragon doesn't play that big a part in the film after this: that was pretty much his greatest moment in the whole story. I wanted to comment on the starblade murder earlier, but because it was such a huge coincidence dragons turned up when I was writing the DO NOT DELETE folder chapter I held back til now. When I was still being an online rear end in a top hat (a bigger one than now), one of my friends knew palshife (I think) who was starblades obssession. I can't remember but palshife was his ex or sth. We incited starblade to our chat channel to ask what's up with him and palshife and holy gently caress he was so insufferable talking about being a gay dragon and palshife palshife palshife. Someone misspelled his name as starbles there or on portal of evil, and he freaked out, which caused more of us to call him that. I also recall he had a horrible dragon livejournal avatar which looked like a blue leech with hair, and we called all dragon furries leechheads after that. Its a tragedy he got stabbed, despite his being a big sperg I was hoping he woud get out of his dragon poo poo and lead a normal life . Also to the one asking if henriettes movie was a true story, honestly nobody knew. She claimed Sadna was an aunt and they apparently filmed some scenes in Sadna's "half a house" including the pool scene. I'm willing to believe its true but some details like the half house became hazy as the filming went. Not sure if Sadnas son did grow up from an Indian kid to a Chinese adult, though.
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Dec 5, 2011 08:43
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Dabbo posted:Hi I just found my younger brother's fanfiction where he turns me, another relative and some anime girls into fairies and rapes and tortures us. I know this got lost in BFD and Lolita talk, but I just wanna add a little HOLY poo poo to this. Seriously, that's actually terrifying, especially the title being "Dabbo's Just Desserts" and your mom not finding anything at all wrong with it. If there's any way at all for you get as far away as possible from your brother, it, uh...might be a good idea.  Because this is nightmarish and so far from being okay it's not even funny and aaaaaaaaaaa
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Dec 5, 2011 10:20
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He's always been obsessed with fairies and convinced they're real and poo poo but ohhhh my goddd
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For people who are interested in hearing lolitas attack eachother for having the wrong kind of lace there is Lolita Secrets Disregarding the fact that even the prettiest girls look ugly when they dress up like a 5 year old on coke, this is just mean.  
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Dec 5, 2011 10:26
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loli secrets is just the most depressing thing. The whole Muslim lolita wankathon of 2011 sure was something special.
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Dec 5, 2011 13:06
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anyoldactress posted:Muslim lolita wankathon of 2011 What is this
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Dec 5, 2011 13:12
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Dabbo posted:What's hilarious is that right now our mom is texting me demanding to know why I was violating my brothers privacy(I walked by his laptop and saw an open word document titled something like "Dabbos just desserts part 3"). My brother is 18. I could write a book about how my brother is basically chris chan and our mom's frantic attempts to protect his ego, but I need to take a shower first. The fact that your mum is defending him rather than doing her nut is kind of worrying. Do you have friends you could stay with?
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Dec 5, 2011 13:50
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Wow, that is a dire pit of nastiness up in there. Also, what is 'ita'?
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