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Jesus H. Christ posted:Boy am I thirsty for the Pottermore experience. I would be too if it wasn't so damned boring. I am curious about how they're going to be changing it, if they are. They've only fixed bugs and didn't add anything new during this beta, right?
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Nov 3, 2011 20:59
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Am I the only one hugely disappointed at the ending of the series not because of it being resolved with a stupid logic puzzle but because Rowling bottles it and abandons the two major themes built through the series that lead to Harry's inevitable victory - the power of love and the futility and stupidity of trying to conquer death. I can't help but feel the natural way for it all to end is with Harry facing a Voldemort in full control of the elder wand when the beams connect again because, despite the twin cores and the part of Voldemort in Harry all being destroyed, their souls are indirectly connected by their shared similarities. Regarding the power of love - it's hinted throughout, and certainly seems to be what Dumbledore believes, that Harry will inevitably win one on one against Voldemort because of his complete soul and the way he embodies all of the characteristics of love displayed by the other good characters, a power given to him by Voldemort through shaping his childhood which 'the dark lord knows not'. I think Dumbledore flat out states at one point that Voldemort's broken soul cannot possibly hope to compete with Harry's. Regarding conquering death - in DH Harry realises that he shouldn't chase the hallows but never makes the connection that they plain don't work because they can't as death is an unavoidable part of life which the wise do not fear. The philosophers stone prolongs life but does not give immortality and eventually flammell accepts death and moves onwards. The horcruxes prevent Voldemort from dying for a while but come at the price that he must abandon all that makes him truly human to make them and can only live an empty existence. The resurrection stone is useful to allow Harry to face death but does not bring people back to life, only shadows which eventually fade. The invisibility cloak is useful for protecting others but is not infallible and eventually the wizard in the story removes it and accepts death just as Harry must eventually stop hiding and confront Voldemort. It follows that despite the elder wand being very powerful it is not unbeatable and in the end Harry, who accepts death, understands what Voldemort doesn't - that he can never be unbeatable. When faced with the power that flows through Harry the elder wand is overwhelmed and the killing curse is forced backwards, destroying both Voldemort and the wand. Harry wins the day, the prophecy fulfils itself and Dumbledore is finally proven right. I know I've thought about this waaaay too much but it just really annoys me how the way Voldemort is beaten is laid out throughout the series in a couple of nice themes and then almost completely abandoned at the climax.
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Nov 5, 2011 22:07
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I honestly don't understand the problem you have with the ending. Harry realizes that the only way for him to defeat Voldemort is for him to die, and in accepting death, he conquers it. That's a great ending to the "stupidity of trying to conquer death" thing. Furthermore, dream-Dumbledore says that it is his love for Hogwarts and his friends, and their love for him, that stopped the Killing Curse from affecting his soul while it was killing Voldemort's soul-piece in Harry. So it's a little of both. What's this "stupid logic puzzle" you're referring to?
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Nov 5, 2011 22:14
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That Harry works out that he is the master of the wand because he disarmed Draco who disarmed Dumbledore so Harry is the correct owner of the wand. It says the wand refuses to attack Harry which is why Harry beats him, so Harry wins due to the arbitrary rules of wand ownership rather than the fact the elder wand like all the hallows is a sham. He gets to that position using all the stuff you said but to eventually win he has to rely on the laws of wand ownership rather than himself. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the end and stupid logic puzzle is an exaggeration it's just when I get to that point at the end, rather than rounding up the two themes nicely it takes a weird detour and I've always felt it falls a little flat. Algol Star fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 22:27
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Algol Star posted:That Harry works out that he is the master of the wand because he disarmed Draco who disarmed Dumbledore so Harry is the correct owner of the wand. It says the wand refuses to attack Harry which is why Harry beats him, so Harry wins due to the arbitrary rules of wand ownership rather than the fact the elder wand like all the hallows is a sham. He gets to that position using all the stuff you said but to eventually win he has to rely on the laws of wand ownership rather than himself. All of that wand ownership poo poo is mostly bullshit that studiers of wandlore believe but is actually a distortion of the truth, much like the story of the Deathly Hallows. It doesn't have very much to do with why Harry won.
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Nov 5, 2011 22:51
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In the narration it straight up says the wand returns to it's rightful master who'd come to claim it at last though. Harry also explains to Voldemort that the wand is his rather than that he's an idiot for thinking a wand could make him invulnerable. I love the ending up to there, it's just for me, the elder wand being real and doing exactly what it's supposed to takes away from dumbledores whole philosophy, like if Voldemort had used any other random wand he would have murdered Harry in front of everyone and if Draco hadn't disarmed Dumbledore Harry couldn't have beaten the wand despite the supposed great power of love. Algol Star fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 23:15
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Algol Star posted:In the narration it straight up says the wand returns to it's rightful master who'd come to claim it at last though. Harry also explains to Voldemort that the wand is his rather than that he's an idiot for thinking a wand could make him invulnerable. I love the ending up to there, it's just for me, the elder wand being real and doing exactly what it's supposed to takes away from dumbledores whole philosophy, like if Voldemort had used any other random wand he would have murdered Harry in front of everyone. Nope that is proven wrong in the very beginning when Malfoys wand will not hurt him
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Nov 5, 2011 23:18
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Algol Star posted:Harry also explains to Voldemort that the wand is his Harry is performing what is called a "lie." He's actually just aiming to break down Voldemort's confidence. If that wandlore poo poo was true, there was no way Harry's wand should have broken Lucius' in the beginning, as Harry had not yet taken Draco's wand.
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Nov 5, 2011 23:31
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DontMockMySmock posted:Harry is performing what is called a "lie." He's actually just aiming to break down Voldemort's confidence. That was due to the connection the two had.
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Nov 5, 2011 23:36
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bobkatt013 posted:That was due to the connection the two had. Yeah. And so was everything else. The wandlore poo poo was a red herring, in the end.
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Nov 6, 2011 00:00
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The Elder Wand is clearly meant to be Harry's phallus, so reading the story literally is never going to make that much sense, anyways. Most of the wandlore seems to be inspired by Trevor Ravenscroft's Spear of Destiny (because Voldemort is Wizard Hitler).
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Nov 8, 2011 02:59
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Mermaid Autopsy posted:The Elder Wand is clearly meant to be Harry's phallus, so reading the story literally is never going to make that much sense, anyways. Most of the wandlore seems to be inspired by Trevor Ravenscroft's Spear of Destiny (because Voldemort is Wizard Hitler). I thought Grindelwald was supposed to be wizard Hitler and Voldemort is wizard Osama Bin Laden.
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Nov 8, 2011 15:36
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Paragon8 posted:I thought Grindelwald was supposed to be wizard Hitler and Voldemort is wizard Osama Bin Laden. I'm pretty sure that Voldemort is suppose to be wizard Margaret Thatcher. Makes more sense considering he is a British villain, so he has a British counter part, instead of a foreigner.
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Nov 9, 2011 01:06
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Electronico6 posted:I'm pretty sure that Voldemort is suppose to be wizard Margaret Thatcher. Makes more sense considering he is a British villain, so he has a British counter part, instead of a foreigner. It's kind of interesting to read into Harry Potter as a British social commentary which I think a lot of Americans miss out on. I thought the whole Umbridge thing was a really scathing assessment of British bureaucracy and the educational system. The whole standardised testing being nothing compared to real knowledge was a message I picked up on. You certainly have elements of classism and racism which are prevalent issues. The villains are mostly upper class AND racists. Vernon and Petunia are a perfect portrait of the Daily Mail readership. Hell the Daily Prophet was hardly subtle in what it was lampooning.
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Nov 9, 2011 01:32
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Paragon8 posted:It's kind of interesting to read into Harry Potter as a British social commentary which I think a lot of Americans miss out on. I thought the whole Umbridge thing was a really scathing assessment of British bureaucracy and the educational system. The whole standardised testing being nothing compared to real knowledge was a message I picked up on. It mentions that Vernon read the Daily Mail. Also I liked that the one who can not be named was actually based off the Krays'
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Nov 9, 2011 01:52
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Algol Star posted:Don't get me wrong I don't hate the end and stupid logic puzzle is an exaggeration it's just when I get to that point at the end, rather than rounding up the two themes nicely it takes a weird detour and I've always felt it falls a little flat. In my experience, any series that someone tries to bring to a close is going to fall flat in some way or another. I think she did okay with how she handled it but the level of expectations that were lain on the last book I don't think it would have been humanly possible for her to meet for everyone. She was definitely smart to say, "Okay, this has become a THING. I'm going to do X amount of books and then wrap up the story and we'll be done." I think she would have had less of a following (though probably made even more money) if she'd just dragged it on and on and on book after book as I bet you not a few of the publishers and people making money off the movies and merchandise probably urged her to do at some point in time.
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Dec 1, 2011 05:18
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Anybody doing anything with Pottermore? Since signing up and doing it for a day or two, I have completely forgotten about it. Hell, I am more anxious for the e-books to be released than I am for the actual social site.
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Dec 1, 2011 20:49
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:Anybody doing anything with Pottermore? I gave up on Pottermore when I couldn't pick up the shopping list and have it STAY in my inventory so I could access Gringott's. I just checked now, and I can FINALLY enter Gringott's. I WANT TO BE SORTED  edit: ASH WITH DRAGON CORE, THIRTEEN INCHES, HARD  edit: Gryffindor?! gently caress you, I belong in Slytherin. daggerdragon fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 1, 2011 |
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Dec 1, 2011 21:37
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:Anybody doing anything with Pottermore? I used Pottermore a lot when I first got in, and breezed through the first book (not knowing the rest weren't ready!). For maybe 2-3 weeks after finishing the first book I made a lot of potions, mostly because Ravenclaw and Slytherin (represent!) were neck and neck so I thought I should contribute. Haven't been on it much since then though, and probably won't be until the next book is released, or maybe dueling is opened back up. Without some kind of integrated messaging system or such, I find it lacking in the social department, unless you just want to talk to people in your house, and even then, it's a public message, not just to one person.
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Dec 5, 2011 01:43
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I've been re-reading the books and am totally bummed the thread is quiet.  Anyway, reading them one after the other instead of with biannual gaps is kinda strange. I'm partway into Half-Blood Prince and I only just feel like the story is reaching its peak. The first 3, even 4, were a bit too childish, and 5 would have been cool if Harry were less stupid. You also really don't see Sirius overall as much as I thought we did. When do you feel the story peaked and got really, really good, and is that also your favourite?
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Dec 5, 2011 14:01
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Szmitten posted:When do you feel the story peaked and got really, really good, and is that also your favourite? Order of the Phoenix. GoF showed more of the Wizarding World as a whole, but it was Order of the Phoenix that addressed how that world would be affected by Voldemort's return, and that there were people out there that would fight to their death to stop it from happening. Sure, Harry was a loud, annoying guy for most of it, but I really liked the sections with the actual Order, and it sucks we didn't get to see more of them (in the books and in the movies).
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Dec 5, 2011 15:11
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Szmitten posted:I've been re-reading the books and am totally bummed the thread is quiet. PoA is my favorite, I'm a sucker for a good time travel plot. Plus I like that it's the only one where the antagonists aren't working for Voldemort (yet). I'd say the story really peaked in HBP; I really liked all the stuff about Voldemort's childhood.
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Dec 5, 2011 19:38
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Szmitten posted:I've been re-reading the books and am totally bummed the thread is quiet. Order of the Phoenix. This is when Harry finally begins coming into his own and demonstrates the leadership qualities that show he actually can be a threat to Voldemort. In the previous novels he is heroic and does cool stuff, but seeing him organize Dumbledore's Army and fight Death Eaters turns him from a kid who is brave and a little better at fighting than the average teenage wizard to the leader and teacher that he needs to be to lead a resistance movement against Voldemort and his followers. Honestly, I was a little disappointed with HBP because I thought after the fight at the Ministry and the death of Sirius that he would become a lot more serious and start really trying to work with the Order and the DA to get ready for a confrontation with Voldemort and his supporters, but instead he went back to be worried about girls and stuff and didn't really continue growing into a leader like he had in OotP. I thought they would continue the whole "Harry is building a resistance movement among the students" theme but he just went back to school angst, and the plan to fight Voldemort got a little more 'video gamey' with the Horcrux quest if that makes sense, rather than playing out like an actual war.
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Dec 5, 2011 23:31
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Szmitten posted:I've been re-reading the books and am totally bummed the thread is quiet. For me it was both PoA and GoF. I read them back to back just before OooP was released. The whole shrieking shack scene was really powerful with Harry having murderous thoughts with crookshanks for getting in the way (very Voldemort like), the Sirius reveal and the "then you should have for them as we would have done for you!" then Harry countering his earlier thoughts with mercy for Pettigrew. GoF... I knew in the back of my mind that Voldemort was going to return Thewhole graveyard scene was awesome. Not verbatim but "Lord Voldemort had returned" made me out the book down. Then adding Moody's" reveal was a nice counterbalance to Sirius' reveal. Say what you will about Rowling and her prose, she knew how to tug at emotion and tell a hell of a story.
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Dec 6, 2011 00:19
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At its best I think Half-Blood Prince is my favorite. Voldermort's backstory was excellent and Harry and Dumbledore going after the locket was probably the best of all the horcrux adventures. But there is so much school nonsense that had stopped adding to the story at least 1 book prior and a lot of repetition of "Snape's up to something!" "No he's not." "Don't use the notes in the margins of that potions book!"
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Dec 6, 2011 08:47
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I don't have a favorite book, but I have favorite parts of books. Like when Fred and George leave school, or the entire section at the Ministry at the end of Order of the Phoenix, or when Harry figures out the clue in the Egg, or both appearances of the Ravenclaw common room door, Slughorn's party, Dumbledore's flight, the preparations for the battle of Hogwarts, Halloween every year, Slughorn's potions classes and Harry reading Snape, etc. etc.
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Dec 6, 2011 11:20
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I just got an email survey from Pottermore about the ebooks/audiobook situation. This makes me extremely excited because I cannot wait to add them to my Kindle. eBooks like a MUTHA!
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Dec 15, 2011 19:00
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geeves posted:Say what you will about Rowling and her prose, she knew how to tug at emotion and tell a hell of a story.
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Dec 17, 2011 16:55
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The really crazy thing is that new characters and concepts are name dropped one or two books in advance. Sirius in book 1, Department of Mysteries in book 4...others I can't remember.
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Dec 18, 2011 13:39
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Szmitten posted:The really crazy thing is that new characters and concepts are name dropped one or two books in advance. Sirius in book 1, Department of Mysteries in book 4...others I can't remember. Or maybe she used existing elements from her previous books when writing the new ones... She does as many things wrong as she does right.
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Dec 18, 2011 14:24
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Paragon8 posted:Or maybe she used existing elements from her previous books when writing the new ones... There was another fantasy author who talked about exactly this. Unfortunately I can't remember who it was, but they said that when a previously existing element appeared in a later book, it was about a 33/33/33 split between "intentional foreshadowing", "put intersting sounding things in and then use them later if they fill a plot role I hadn't planned out", and "used a named character/place instead of a new one just for a feeling of continuity".
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Dec 19, 2011 11:39
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Oh definately, I'm sure the diary is retroactively a Horcrux and some guy getting lost in the Department of Mysteries is a throwaway whimsy thing, it's just that on a re-read it's just nuts to see that stuff early.
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Dec 19, 2011 14:01
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AlphaDog posted:There was another fantasy author who talked about exactly this. Unfortunately I can't remember who it was, but they said that when a previously existing element appeared in a later book, it was about a 33/33/33 split between "intentional foreshadowing", "put intersting sounding things in and then use them later if they fill a plot role I hadn't planned out", and "used a named character/place instead of a new one just for a feeling of continuity". Prime example: the sages from OoT being named after locations from Zelda II (or vice versa if you go by the retconned in-universe etymology).
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Dec 19, 2011 20:20
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I guess now is a good time to post my "How I Got Into Harry Potter" story. When I was in the 4th grade I was really bored with school. I was, and still am really, a constant day dreamer, and would just space out when I already understood something being taught. I was moved into 5th grade math just so I wouldn't be a Hermione to my 4th grade class. That 5th grade teacher picked up on my spaciness, and the fact that I liked to read, and showed me Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, which she was reading aloud to her class each morning. Basically, I blazed though it in a few hours and gushed to her about it. Obviously the "escape the mundane for a magical world" really appealed to me. She invited me to her class for their morning reading, and that's when I really fell in love. She was a very engaging narrator, and did voices so fantastic that to this day I cannot listen to Steven Fry's versions without comparing it negatively to her version. She could just bring characters to life in a way I had never imagined. The class finished books 1 and 2 while I was in 4th grade, and I couldn't wait to have her as a teacher for 5th grade. I knew I was going to dig it, but I had no idea. She really embraced how engaging Harry Potter was to children, and more or less turned our class into a mini Hogwarts. We didn't recant spells or have a Room of Requirement, but she did sort us into houses (Slytherin, hate on it), distribute/take House points for good/bad behavior, right answers/not participating, ect., and would sometimes organize a game of "Muggle Quiddich" during P.E. (To the person who said that Quiddich doesn't make since because 'wouldn't 6 people just go look for the Snitch [marble] if it was worth so much?' Well that's exactly what our class thought and did. While I continually bombed the goal hoops [milk crates] with the Quaffle [dodgeball] for an easy 250 points). To end the year, we had "Harry Potter Day", involving dressing up as our favorite characters, making our own wands (picking out sticks and gluing feathers/glitter/colorful pipe snakes to them), a Great Feast including some British food and home made Butterbeer, fun 'magical' games like Levitating competitions (making paper airplanes, waving your wand wildly and hoped it stayed up longest), and a potion logic problem straight out of the end of the first book. To top it all off, this young public school teacher bought bronze/silver/gold medals and large trophies for the losers/winners of the House Cup. I don't think I'll ever meet another teacher as caring, inventive and bright as her. She got kids who never picked up a book in their life actually reading for fun, kids who were shy or just hated school engaged and talking to peers (housemates), and got one certain kid who wished nothing more than to escape a dull life to appreciate the magic around him.
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Dec 21, 2011 06:04
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You know, after going through all the books ,there's one thing I'm sorry never happened. The Giant Squid. It seems like a Chekov's gun that was never fired. I had hoped it would show up in the battle of Hogwards, but I don't think it did. Unrelated, the unluckiest bastard in the series has to be Lucius Malfoy. If I condense his story, he comes off as a bumbling sidekick. Sort of Baldrick to Voldemort's Blackadder. Voldemort : Ah, Lucius, can I have that diary back? Malfoy : Here, my Lord. Voldemort : ..... It looks a lot more stabbed then when I gave it to you. Malfoy : Ah, about that, I had a cunning plan, my Lord... Voldemort : You gave my diary, the thing I told you to protect with your life, to an eleven-year-old girl? That's it, into the snake pit till I tell you to get out. Malfoy : Does it still have snakes in it, my Lord? Voldemort : It's called a snake pit, Lucius, otherwise I'd just call it a "pit". Voldemort : Ah, Lucius, do you have the prophecy? Malfoy : Bits of it, my Lord. It sort of... broke. Voldemort : I seem to remember telling you that nothing was more important than keeping it safe. It's the fire pit this time, Malfoy. Malfoy : Does it... Voldemort : It's called a fire pit ! Voldemort : Lucius, you had Harry Potter here, locked up and unarmed, and you let him escape? Malfoy : He had help ! From a house elf ! One I have never seen before in my life and who certainly didn't once belong to me and is now helping Potter partly because he hates me ! Voldemort : Malfoy, could you do us all a favour and go join the Order of the Phoenix? That way you can do to them exactly what you've done for me all these years. It's double unlucky that a lot of stuff he got blamed for was either due to Voldermort's own distrust or having Batshit Bellatrix next to him. Bad Wolf fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 18, 2012 |
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Jan 18, 2012 14:45
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Bad Wolf posted:You know, after going through all the books
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Jan 18, 2012 15:03
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Joramun posted:and apparently never noticing it's Voldemort, not Voldermort Audio books. OK, that's no excuse. What the gently caress is wrong with me? Editing my post. No really, I've been calling him Voldermort for all these years, even reading over it every time his name comes up in this thread.
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Jan 18, 2012 15:05
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Bad Wolf posted:You know, after going through all the books ,there's one thing I'm sorry never happened. The Giant Squid. It seems like a Chekov's gun that was never fired. I had hoped it would show up in the battle of Hogwards, but I don't think it did. Crackfic is the best fic. But yes, I agree with you. The Malfoys (and to a lot of extent, the Blacks) really got the poo poo end of the stick. However, they were the most public and influential (read: rich) of many of the pureblood families, and where they go, the rest of the purebloods would probably follow, which is what both Lucius and Voldemort exploited. In the end, it was Narcissa, for the love of her son and her family who essentially saved the entire Wizarding world and kept the Malfoys from being reviled for the rest of the century. Love, the recurring theme in the books, which Voldemort could not understand nor harness the power of, and was ultimately his downfall through cumulative efforts - Lily and James, Harry's love for his friends (and vice versa), Harry's love for the Wizarding world, the entire Order of the Phoenix, Narcissa's love for her family, etc. etc. etc. edit: Now I've got the theme song to "Blackadder" stuck in my head, thank you very much, but I'm putting in "Harry Pot-ter, Harry Pot-ter" instead. 
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Jan 18, 2012 18:27
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daggerdragon posted:kept the Malfoys from being reviled for the rest of the century. You mean for the next two years? HP7 takes place in 1997-1998  
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Jan 18, 2012 19:08
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Has there been any news of when the e-book editions are going to be released? I would love to re-read the series, but the last few books are so big and awkward to hold, I'd rather just wait until I can read it on my Kindle.
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Jan 18, 2012 19:10
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