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From the way you guys talk, it seems like graduating right now is a completely different experience than someone graduating back then. Even a 6 year difference is a lot and I thought I had a rough time getting my first gig.
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Dec 7, 2011 19:25
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I graduated in May and got my internship in July. It didn't feel hard to get but we'll see if it turns into a job or not.
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Dec 7, 2011 19:48
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Buckwheat Sings posted:From the way you guys talk, it seems like graduating right now is a completely different experience than someone graduating back then. Even a 6 year difference is a lot and I thought I had a rough time getting my first gig. Well to be the fair, the job economy is a bit more aggressive now. If say I got out of college six years ago (which would've been possible) job hunting would slightly easier. People in college right now are lucky. That whole six months of them helping you get a job (for my school anyway) may seem alot, but those six months go by really fast (doesn't help the game industry doesn't reach til maybe like a drat month)
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Dec 7, 2011 19:55
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Buckwheat Sings posted:From the way you guys talk, it seems like graduating right now is a completely different experience than someone graduating back then. Even a 6 year difference is a lot and I thought I had a rough time getting my first gig. Most of the grads I know in the games industry all got their jobs before the 08 crash and the subsequent shut down of major studios all over the UK, so that is a big factor I believe, as is how far technology and standards have risen for your typical studio. I feel bad for people studying 3d art at Teesside Uni right now, they're not only learning stuff that's out of date but the industry is evolving literally faster than the students study in class. GeeCee fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 20:03
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I know two people who graduated this year and got jobs - one programmer and one audio guy.
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Dec 7, 2011 20:11
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Hypothesis! More people are going to game schools these days. Game schools/majors (still) suck and those people are not being hired because they're receiving horrid educations, glammed up with marketing that promises high placement / hire rates. Expectations thus raised, they are disappointed when it's not easy to get a job right out the game.
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Dec 7, 2011 20:33
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No, the market also sucks. I graduated in December from a software engineering degree, and despite Montreal allegedly being in a big gaming job boom, I could only find four junior openings in the course of three months. I suppose "not having massive layoffs in all studios" can be seen as a thriving market compared to the rest of the industry. Either way, I gave up after these three slow months, hoping I'd find more openings for the summer graduates. In the meantime, I worked on an indie project just to learn things I hadn't seen in my major. Eventually, and with the help of my savings running awfully dry, I started looking actively again, applied to an intermediate level opening that required 2-3 years experience, and have been working there ever since.  These days, studios are just not that eager to gamble on new talent, to the point they (my studio, at least) would rather hire more experienced people from abroad than new graduates.
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Dec 7, 2011 20:53
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FreakyZoid posted:I know two people who graduated this year and got jobs - one programmer and one audio guy. I know two programmers who graduated this year and got jobs. One if I don't count myself.
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Dec 7, 2011 20:54
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We've hired three graduate programmers in as many months, each of them backed by really solid portfolio work. The sample-work factor really can't be overstated when it comes to graduate positions.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:09
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FreakyZoid posted:I know two people who graduated this year and got jobs - one programmer and one audio guy. Not very compelling when over half the job postings I see are only for senior positions. My point is that it's VERY difficult to get a foothold into this field right now. The only options are the Indie route(which is actually pretty awesome) or QA for most folks. A ton of the stuff that I know are definitely not taught in schools and thank god for the internet as that's the best way to learn. I got my first break working on the kid's show Jimmy Neutron. If I wanted to do that now, I'd have to move to India.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:12
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Not very compelling when over half the job postings I see are only for senior positions. My point is that it's VERY difficult to get a foothold into this field right now. The only options are the Indie route(which is actually pretty awesome) or QA for most folks. A ton of the stuff that I know are definitely not taught in schools and thank god for the internet as that's the best way to learn. What you're seeing now is an adjustment back to the sustainable employment levels, and it becoming more obvious how not-great-an-idea most of those diploma mills were in the first place. It's unfortunate for the students still in those programs, but for everyone in this thread, the advice hasn't changed - your best bet was and remains to train yourself and have a kick-rear end portfolio. Kick-rear end portfolios will still find employment. (EDIT: and you can train yourself while you're getting a Games Blah Blah diploma, whatever, the point is just that you should never rely on a program like that to get a job... all those programs do, their only value, is to help you make a kick rear end portfolio) Shalinor fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 21:17
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Shalinor posted:It's unfortunate for the students still in those programs, but for everyone in this thread, the advice hasn't changed - your best bet was and remains to train yourself and have a kick-rear end portfolio. Kick-rear end portfolios will still find employment. I wish I could bold that like 100 times. gently caress school. Maybe Animation Mentor but that's loving expensive as gently caress now. There's so much resource and access to professionals online that it's just mind blowingly awesome crazy. It's just sad that people that buy into 4 years of school, etc are kinda hosed.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:19
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I was laid off a month ago  Luckily now I have like a year and a half of experience and I am working on stuff for my portfolio so hopefully I will be able to find something without too much trouble. The issue I have is that I need a work visa and I imagine most places would be reluctant to hire someone from abroad.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:22
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Chernabog posted:I was laid off a month ago Many companies in Montreal offer work visas.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:25
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I can obviously only speak for the companies I've been employed by, but advertised positions are often not representative of all potential employment with a company. Senior roles are often advertised because they're usually harder to fill and need to be visible to people who are investigating a change from their current positions. Mid-level and graduate roles are less common because the number of unsolicited applications and recruiter-based applicants are much higher. As an example, not one of our recent hires came as a result of an advertised position. Every one of the graduates sent a CV with accompanying reference to websites of portfolio work. Unless specified on their website, most companies are fine with applications without a role specified and the whole line regarding keeping them on file is actually pretty honest.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:27
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A friend of mine pretty recently enrolled in Full Sail under some graphics design program. I've not heard good things about this school and she's pretty susceptible to just agreeing with whatever the ads on TV tell her is great. Does anyone have any literature that is reliable that I could link her to showing whether this school honestly is a waste of her money, or actually isn't a bad idea for what she wants to do? I know their accreditation isn't transferable, I'm familiar with private "schools" telling people they are accredited as I used to work customer service for Everest University which is another private piece of poo poo school that really fucks people out of their money by giving them essentially worthless degrees.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:38
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Hmm. My role(s) at work have been kind of fuzzy since I was invited back to the company, but today our CEO recommended I spend the day tomorrow purely doing writing and design, no coding. That's gonna be weird! I usually do that at home in the evenings, then code during the day in the office. I know what's going to happen. I'm going to be hammering out the design details, and then I'm going to think "I should do that this way" and then I'm going to want to implement it right away. Anyone else wear a bunch of different hats at work? Because of the size of our company pretty much everybody is a ____ and a designer. I remember when Aliginge started, and he said "I don't do design!" How'd that work out for ya? 
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Dec 7, 2011 21:43
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nickhimself posted:Full Sail One of my coworkers went to Full Sail. He's managed to have an almost identical employment history to me (we're both former Microsoft SDETs now working at Turbine) despite having gone to school for less than half the time I did. I haven't really talked to him about it particularly much, though, so I'm not sure whether he was in FS's top 1% or just really lucky or anything out of the ordinary like that. What I'm getting at is that it's PROBABLY not career poison.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:45
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Akuma posted:Anyone else wear a bunch of different hats at work? Because of the size of our company pretty much everybody is a ____ and a designer. ... speaking of, I really should do that today. Those out-of-place social buttons are due for a booting to greener and less obnoxious pastures EDIT: I have no issue with Full Sail, and nothing about it would be resume poison. It's just that they cost a SHITLOAD of money and don't give you much of anything in return. Full Sail on your resume won't poison it, but it also won't help you much at all. It's still all down to portfolio and, frankly, most portfolios I see out of Full Sail are barely worth looking at. The people that graduate from there and find work are thus, I suspect, the people that really put in extra time, and would have done similarly (and had similarly awesome portfolios) even if they never went to Full Sail. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 21:48
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I've had a handful of colleagues who went to Full Sail, but I have a pretty good sense that they would have been able to find employment were that not the case. At best, going to Full Sail won't immediately cause your resume to hit the trash bin.
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Dec 7, 2011 21:52
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Monochrome posted:At best, going to Full Sail won't immediately cause your resume to hit the trash bin. Or almost certainly WILL if it comes across my desk for a design job!
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Dec 7, 2011 22:01
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I think it's mostly because some students skim the whole do more than homework and actually work on a portfolio advice sites give out. Schools like Full Sail and A.I. always make you do school work (no surprise there) so it probably discourages students from trying harder to actually doing something of their own. I wouldn't be surprised if some of portfolios were actual school work or something. I had to learn the hard way for A.I. While it did build a nice foundation for me, students have to realize, you can have all the education you want but it doesn't mean it's a guaranteed ticket for a job in the industry. (immediately trying to be hire is what i'm trying to say) I"m just thankful I have a few people I know in the industry, it's pretty much how I know when to start applying and get a few words in. Sure there are times where I almost make it but someone else with better experience gets in but it beats not getting a response at all. Basically, if you are going to school go in with the mentality that you are building a foundation and not trying to get a job from the get go. You might be sorely disappointed that those 4 years were for nothing if you thinking getting a job is immediate. Hell I"m lucky I got out of A.I. I only went for a year. I owe like 26k in loans, but it's better than staying three years and owe 80 k or something. That's another thing to consider, in school you better work your rear end off. Schools are ridiculously expensive, especially the 'game" design schools or "art" schools. (I feel bad for my former gf, she has to pay 140k when she's done)
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Dec 7, 2011 22:06
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devilmouse posted:Hypothesis!
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Dec 7, 2011 22:07
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Just finished my second phone screening for a core tools engineering position at a Seattle company. Seemed to go really well. And now I am crossing all the body parts. I want this job so bad. If anyone needs me, I'll be at the hospital dealing with the consequences of testicular torsion. 
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Dec 7, 2011 23:22
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Apparently Digipen is making a new MFA program. I'm not sure what else they can teach on top of the 4 year BFA.
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Dec 7, 2011 23:31
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devilmouse posted:Or almost certainly WILL if it comes across my desk for a design job! e: scratch that, they were Guildhall 
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Dec 7, 2011 23:33
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Pfhreak posted:If anyone needs me, I'll be at the hospital dealing with the consequences of testicular torsion. Was it a panel, or did that happen in a one-on-one?
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Dec 8, 2011 00:10
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Of course something not everyone wants to hear is that you don't need to get your first job in the Games Industry... I graduated college, started an ISP, worked at a Fortune 50 company in Enterprise Systems Management (Monitoring 1000 - 50,000 computers from one location.) did the same thing at a Game Company working on monitoring of MMOs and laterally moved to MMO development. Now I'm doing FPSes. If I tried to get in the industry directly from college who knows if I would have succeeded or not.
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Dec 8, 2011 00:19
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Chernabog posted:Apparently Digipen is making a new MFA program. I'm not sure what else they can teach on top of the 4 year BFA. The only thing I can hope is less smaller projects and more larger portfolio piece projects. The top complaint I hear from my friends that have done/currently in DigiPen's BFA program is not having enough time to flesh out projects to be more competent portfolio pieces. This is usually because they're trying to teach a broad range of abilities of many 2d and 3d mediums. They really need MFA to only have a few classes at most and the rest is projects.
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Dec 8, 2011 00:21
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I appreciate the replies regarding Full Sail. If/when she asks me about it I'll let her know that most of the feedback I've received regarding the question suggested her portfolio and ability can have greater impact on her future career than her degree when it's all said and done.
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Dec 8, 2011 00:24
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Shalinor posted:Must have been one heck of an interview. Nope, the torsion was a result of me crossing everything. The actual screen/interview was not too bad, but I've also been through another screen and programming test so far. This one was much more about talking through some of the projects I've worked on as well as a realistic view of what games industry culture can mean. (50+ hour work weeks, crunch times, oh god I hope you don't have a family, etc.)
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Dec 8, 2011 00:51
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Buckwheat Sings posted:The only options are the Indie route(which is actually pretty awesome) or QA for most folks. Mobile games. Mobile! mooobiiiile!! 
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Dec 8, 2011 01:03
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nickhimself posted:I appreciate the replies regarding Full Sail. If/when she asks me about it I'll let her know that most of the feedback I've received regarding the question suggested her portfolio and ability can have greater impact on her future career than her degree when it's all said and done. Beyond just mentioning that she needs to put in the extra time herself/work hard to make a strong portfolio, it might also help to reiterate that you got to use/abuse the school system you're paying for. Learning from more experienced people will always help, so if there's a quality faculty, even if you don't have a class with a particular instructor, get help as much as possible. This also helps alleviate the burden behind the idea of becoming awesome all on your own. This also extends to keeping an eye out for really talented peers and working with them/picking their brain.
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Dec 8, 2011 03:07
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devilmouse posted:Or almost certainly WILL if it comes across my desk for a design job! Why do you hate them? I don't have any opinion on the institution, but if its an entry level position and they've got a solid portfolio, why do you care where they went to school? If it isn't an entry level position then it seems like it matters even less where they went to school.
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Dec 8, 2011 03:07
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Jaytan posted:Why do you hate them? I don't have any opinion on the institution, but if its an entry level position and they've got a solid portfolio, why do you care where they went to school? Because 9 out of 10 people who come out of those design mills are atrocious and entitled with their only skillset being "I can put together a GDD! Kind of.". It's a bad school with a lazy curriculum and anyone who thinks it's a good idea to go there as a way to achieve their dream... well, that's already saying a whole lot about them, and we'll likely not see eye to eye on a lot of stuff. We chafe, them and I! Edit: After entry-level stuff, I don't really notice it. But if we're your first job out of school, all I can look at is your portfolio and education.
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Dec 8, 2011 03:41
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For something a bit different... Any great console gameplay engineers out there looking for something new? Animation experience is a plus. It’s a pretty exciting opportunity and our last project was a 90 metacritic. Relo and visas are available if you’re the right person. It's definitely not an entry level engineering spot. Drop me a PM if you’re interested in hearing more or reply and I’ll figure out how to get in touch.
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Dec 8, 2011 03:43
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There's pretty much no way I would hire a programmer with no 4 year degree and no professional experience. Even if they had a nice looking portfolio. You're going to need at least need one or the other. It may not be fair, but it is the case. As far as wearing multiple hats, at the moment I am functioning as a dev, a dev lead, and a producer. And I actually work at a big company (relatively small studio, though). Not functioning a whole heck of a lot as a dev lately come to think of it, though. My current responsibilities are probably not sustainable in the long term. I will probably have to choose between dev lead and producer in the next year or three.
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Dec 8, 2011 06:16
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DancingMachine posted:There's pretty much no way I would hire a programmer with no 4 year degree and no professional experience. Even if they had a nice looking portfolio. You're going to need at least need one or the other. It may not be fair, but it is the case. Also... I'll just leave this right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmmdYuyFeU (once the upload finishes - 48% and climbing - that'll be our IGF trailer for The Savage Garden. We didn't get as far as we might have liked, but we're overall pretty darn proud of what we submitted. Plays pretty well. Doesn't show great in video, but of course not, it's holy geeze pre-alpha.) Shalinor fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 8, 2011 |
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Dec 8, 2011 06:31
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Shalinor posted:To contrast against this, I would indeed hire a programmer with no 4 year degree or professional experience, so long as they had an amazing portfolio... AND if they were solid in an interview. Not for a lead or anything though, it'd be for a jr. role, and I'd be considering contracting-style employment to avoid nastiness if they didn't work out. Hmmm, yeah as a contractor I might do it. They'd probably need to be specialized in some way then - like maybe you need to bring somebody in for a 3 month contract to implement some UI or physics or something.
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Dec 8, 2011 06:42
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Shalinor posted:To contrast against this, I would indeed hire a programmer with no 4 year degree or professional experience, so long as they had an amazing portfolio... AND if they were solid in an interview. Not for a lead or anything though, it'd be for a jr. role, and I'd be considering contracting-style employment to avoid nastiness if they didn't work out. That's why I'm a bit depressed when I think of my future. I've been a sysadmin for 4-5 years now but I'd like to eventually move to programming. I don't have a degree but I'm pretty good with Python and a few other languages. I know that even if I get offered a coding job, it would be a junior position and I'm not really ready to take a $20k salary drop (family to support and all)... Sysadmin until retirement!
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