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I just hope that Mazda can keep the driving dynamics in the 2 with the increased fuel economy, because everything I've read about it is that it's just fun as hell to drive, akin to a 4th generation Civic Si. Remember JukeChat all those pages ago? And the Juke-R? Well, it turns out that top execs at Nissan Japan were a little pissed about the R being developed behind their backs. But come on, man, how could anyone be upset about a Juke with the engine of a loving GT-R?   Come on, admit it, this thing is rad.
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Dec 9, 2011 02:05
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The video in that link looks like they're testing at the Top Gear track. I would asume then that the boys have had a go with it, hope we get a cool segment out of it.
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Dec 9, 2011 02:16
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It is in fact, rad as gently caress. However, I think that track is some internal configuration at Silverstone. I still hope the Top Gear guys get their hands on one. Preferably Clarkson, as he seems to love the GT-R, but I'm sure he thinks the Juke is hideous and stupid.
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Dec 9, 2011 02:31
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To be fair the Juke is hideous
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Dec 9, 2011 02:59
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Pseudonym posted:Come on, admit it, this thing is rad. I'm so jaded. I remember seeing the concept car at the Philly auto show many years ago for what became the Infiniti EX. It looked like a bad rear end terminator style assault vehicle. How was it released? As 'meh" at best. This is not a unique experience for me. So, whatever. Release one in mass production and I'll be impressed.
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Dec 9, 2011 03:15
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The question is why wouldn't you just buy the GT-R?
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Dec 9, 2011 03:48
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leica posted:Wait for the Mazda2 to get the Skyactive motor then it should be rated at 40 or better. The Mazda3 isn't much more expensive and is already being offered with the Skyactive and is rated at 40mpg. Has this been announced somewhere or just speculation?
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Dec 9, 2011 04:13
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TLG James posted:Has this been announced somewhere or just speculation? I read it somewhere, don't remember where. It would be a logical progression, the Mazda2 is their most economical car, you would think they'd want their most economical engine in it so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't happen. Fake edit: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/10/facelifted-mazda2-with-skyactiv-1-3l-revealed-in-japan/ Looks very likely, 58 mpg is drat good if that's accurate Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Dec 9, 2011 |
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Dec 9, 2011 05:47
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leica posted:Fake edit: http://carguideblog.com/16493/2012-mazda2-skyactive-13liter-engine-revealed-demio/ TLG James posted:Anyone have a comparison between the mazda2 and the hyundai accent hatchback? I know they're both boring eco boxes, but I'm seriously wondering if the accent is hitting 40 mpg. The mazda2 is at 35mpg. The 2 isn't as boring as you'd expect an economy car to be. I've had mine for 4 months and put almost 5k miles on it. The steering, brakes, and gearbox are all excellent and it rides fairly well for being such a small car. It's about as fun as you can expect a cheap and simple daily driver to be. I'm getting 35-38 mpg and most of that is spent going up and down hills at 70+ mph or in traffic. Bet I could hit 40 mpg if I wasn't in Southern California.
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Dec 9, 2011 06:00
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Also, I just dug through the spec sheets on Mazda's Japanese site - that 1.3L Skyactiv is only good for 62 kW (about 83hp). The current US-market 2 has 100hp, and while I think it's a riot, I also think there needs to be a hot hatch version with more power, not less. No matter the fuel economy, an 83hp hatch will be an extremely hard sell in the US; I think as it is the US 2 is one of the lowest-horsepower vehicles for sale today in the states. The Smart ForTwo makes less but look how well that piece of poo poo sells.
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Dec 9, 2011 23:48
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Pseudonym posted:I just hope that Mazda can keep the driving dynamics in the 2 with the increased fuel economy, because everything I've read about it is that it's just fun as hell to drive, akin to a 4th generation Civic Si. I could understand the brass at Nissan getting upset because it has potential to encroach on the GT-R's performance figures a bit, which can be equated to how GM killed the Typhoon prematurely in the early 90s because people said it was as fast as a Corvette, which as the brand's flagship is a big no-no.
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Dec 9, 2011 23:57
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Yeticopter posted:I could understand the brass at Nissan getting upset because it has potential to encroach on the GT-R's performance figures a bit, which can be equated to how GM killed the Typhoon prematurely in the early 90s because people said it was as fast as a Corvette, which as the brand's flagship is a big no-no. Didn't the WS6 Firebird have around the same horsepower and speed as a Corvette, so they just lied and understated the amount of horses the WS6 had?
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Dec 10, 2011 00:05
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Heard today that Toyota & BMW have been swapping phone numbers, with BMW getting a plateful of Hybrid & High-Voltage data & technology, Toyota getting 1.6 & 2L Diesel engines, thank god. Toyota Diesel engines are pretty poor, like 5-10 years behind the curve poor. Noisy, burn oil, slow, unrefined, lumpy, not really efficient, just overall lovely.
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Dec 10, 2011 00:28
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Really? Whats wrong with the 2.2 in the Rav 4? Seems to perform better than a 2l Tiguan and its certainly rated better for economy.
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Dec 10, 2011 00:36
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Hashal posted:Didn't the WS6 Firebird have around the same horsepower and speed as a Corvette, so they just lied and understated the amount of horses the WS6 had? Yep. IIRC, the WS6 just had a different air intake than the base Trans Am/Firebird/Z28. 2001-2002 gave them all a better intake manifold. I remember reading about 'factory freaks' when they were still fresh that would hit 290-310whp off the showroom floor, even with the Formula/Z28/Trans AM models.
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Dec 10, 2011 01:35
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Better intake manifold was the stock LS6 piece. It actually also had to do with the fact that '01-'02 F-car LS1s actually have a smaller cam than the '98-'00 cars, but that smaller cam allowed them to eliminate EGR. The LS6 intake manifold went on because it already had the EGR port removed, plus making up the power lost by the smaller cam. The goal of 'limiting' power on the F-car was also pushed because the fourthgen wasn't much fatter than a C4 or C5 Corvette. Times have changed, though. The fifthgen is a lot fatter than a C6. Ford is doing all sorts of obscene and amazing things to the S197. GM does keep the LS9 exclusive to the ZR1, but now there's no problem with putting the LSA in the CTS-V or ZL1. I do wish the LS7 had shown up in places other than the Z06, though. 7.0L 
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Dec 10, 2011 02:28
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dissss posted:Really? In the avensis, the 2.2 is louder, rattlier, burns more oil, burns more fuel & make barely more power than the 2.0. Compare the 2.0 to the same offering from volvo, ford, vauxhall, vw, honda, nissan, they're all quieter, smoother, make better real world economy in the same segment vehicle. Lease avensis' where I work go back with approx 15000 miles on them, with a service at 10000 miles, often the dipstick is bone dry when the car is returned (5k miles after a service) because no one checks the oil on a lease car. More than a litre of oil burnt in 5k miles? Noise is partly sound insulation problems but the engines are harsh at any speed.
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Dec 10, 2011 16:07
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First sighting for me in the flesh. A few items caught my attention and made it worthy of putting here than the cellphone thread.  That upper rear window seems so inefficient, but I guess it'd be even worse to not have it. This probably represents the color the best:  I think they used it on the first year Genesis Coupe, too. Really lovely and rich in person, with an undercurrent of gold. I think it outdoes the Mazda 2 version of this green. This is a design detail that I'd missed before:  The sculpturig in the headlights is good, too. This is something I haven't seen before:  Corrugated ribs on the inside fenders. Is this something new cars have? I assume it either keeps dirt from sticking or makes it easier to break off stuck dirt. This one was a manual. I should stalk the owner and talk to him/her about it.
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Dec 10, 2011 22:54
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That looks like a great little sports box except for the green on the wheels. I hope its fun to drive too! Should I be worried that if Hyundai and Kia's keep getting better and more desirable the price will naturally rise leaving a gap for cheap Chinese cars? My lord, these look bad. Even the ones that are almost direct knocks offs.
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Dec 11, 2011 01:48
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tobu posted:That looks like a great little sports box except for the green on the wheels. It looked like the color accents are removeable, so you can get different colors or take them off.
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Dec 11, 2011 01:57
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Cakefool posted:In the avensis, the 2.2 is louder, rattlier, burns more oil, burns more fuel & make barely more power than the 2.0. Compare the 2.0 to the same offering from volvo, ford, vauxhall, vw, honda, nissan, they're all quieter, smoother, make better real world economy in the same segment vehicle. Interesting. Where I am the only small Toyota diesels we get are the 1.4 in the Corolla (which is pretty grim) and the 2.2 in the Rav 4. I guess the 2l in the Holden Cruze (and some Hyundais) is a different unit to what you'd find in a Vauxhall? That's the only modern diesel I've found annoyingly unrefined.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:08
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tobu posted:Should I be worried that if Hyundai and Kia's keep getting better and more desirable the price will naturally rise leaving a gap for cheap Chinese cars? I'm curious about this too. It seems to be the natural way things progress. But I feel that the only reason it is natural is because it is an effect of the way that business schools teach people to run businesses. A lot of the business theory that I've heard is that you should always be looking to go up-market because the profit margins are better up there. Once you get there, it makes sense to cut your lower market businesses because they are under-performing compared to the high-margin segments (trim the fat). That being said, the automotive industry is very saturated these days, much more than they were when the Japanese companies began competing in the U.S. Enough of these companies have small enough market shares in the U.S. (Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc.)that I believe there will continue to be stiff enough competition in the entry level market for some years to come. It is possible that the Chinese may make their entry into the U.S. market via niche-market cars rather than with entry-level cars. Porsche made high-margin sports cars for decades before branching out and selling sedans and rebadged VW SUVs. Subaru did something similar to some extent, they gained in market share by specializing in making the best all-weather vehicles you could buy and concentrating their sales in the Rockies and New England markets. If any Chinese companies penetrate the U.S. automobile market significantly, it will be because they paid their way by buying an established company (Volvo), or because they did something innovative, such as combining technology in a way that hasn't been done yet. oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 03:13
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oRenj9 posted:It is possible that the Chinese may make their entry into the U.S. market via niche-market cars rather than with entry-level cars. Porsche made high-margin sports cars for decades before branching out and selling sedans and rebadged VW SUVs. Subaru did something similar to some extent, they gained in market share by specializing in making the best all-weather vehicles you could buy and concentrating their sales in the Rockies and New England markets. Chinese cars come way more entry level that anything out of Korea or Japan though. I could see them slotting in with cheap, tiny, poorly built city cars as even though the market in the US for them is small no one is competing there now.
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Dec 11, 2011 03:20
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dissss posted:I could see them slotting in with cheap, tiny, poorly built city cars as even though the market in the US for them is small no one is competing there now. Arguably, the entire used car market is competing in that slot.
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Dec 11, 2011 03:50
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There is little business case for exporting cars from China to developed markets really. Car making is pretty capital intensive, especially if you consider the huge R&D costs of developing a modern car and engine. Lower labour costs in China, and they aren't even that low any more, don't really give them much of an advantage. Why bother when markets like America and Europe show so little consumption growth anyway? With the way things are adjusting in the US and Europe - depreciating currencies, falling labour costs(how many years of high unemployment can they take?), stagnant domestic demand, companies like GM and VW are going to be doing very well exporting to places like China. Yes, China still has tariffs but they are coming down. The tariff on parts is already gone so most of their joint venture assembly plants are making cars with upward of 60% imported parts. 60% of Chevrolets sold are sold outside the US, even higher for Buick. I doubt that anyone at GM or VW are seriously worried about any Chinese competition in their home markets.
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Dec 11, 2011 04:17
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BMW has finally made a car that I don't think looks like Amy Winehouse. It's not exactly without borrowed inspiration in its design, but I'm just happy they gave up on the stupid curvy headlamps. So much better this way.
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Dec 12, 2011 19:30
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Not seeing the point of the 6 GC. It's competing against the Mercedes CLS, right? Well, they're just a little late to the game, since the CLS has been around for over six years, and VW beat them to it with the Passat CC in '08.
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Dec 12, 2011 21:14
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Left Ventricle posted:Not seeing the point of the 6 GC. It's competing against the Mercedes CLS, right? Well, they're just a little late to the game, since the CLS has been around for over six years, and VW beat them to it with the Passat CC in '08. What country do you live in where a Passat is comparable to a 6 series?
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Dec 12, 2011 23:44
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Yeticopter posted:What country do you live in where a Passat is comparable to a 6 series?
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Dec 13, 2011 00:58
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Left Ventricle posted:America, land of historically terrible cars. My point is the CC looks a hell of a lot like the CLS, close enough to fool the casual passer-by. Even setting the CC aside, BMW is trying to get into a segment that has been a one-car race for six years. They and Audi (A7) are a little late to that, and I don't see this as anything other than another ill-conceived cash grab attempt, much like the 5 GT. I don't see what time has to do with anything. The point of the car is there are people that will buy and and provide a profit for BMW. If there wasn't, they wouldn't make it. Of course it's a cash grab; what other reason would there be to do it? I'm always for more competition in any given market.
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Dec 13, 2011 01:13
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Mr.Peabody posted:BMW has finally made a car that I don't think looks like Amy Winehouse. It's not exactly without borrowed inspiration in its design, but I'm just happy they gave up on the stupid curvy headlamps. So much better this way. I was wondering when BMW was going to make a model to compete in this segment. It looks good. I'm glad they kept cues from the front end of the current 6 series. It's the only decent part of probably the ugliest BMW ever produced. I think the A7 trumped the MBZ with its styling and technology. It seems like the bimmer will give the Audi a run for its money.
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Dec 13, 2011 02:54
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One thing I never got I guess, what exactly is that segment, just below flagship sedan but sportier or something?
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Dec 13, 2011 05:37
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japtor posted:One thing I never got I guess, what exactly is that segment, just below flagship sedan but sportier or something? The are hatchback versions of midsize(5 series/A6/E-class) sedans and cost quite a bit more than the standard sedan, although usually they are better equipped.
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Dec 13, 2011 05:45
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What about the CLS (cause that doesn't seem to be a hatch going by pictures)?
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Dec 13, 2011 05:53
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Throatwarbler posted:The are hatchback versions of midsize(5 series/A6/E-class) sedans and cost quite a bit more than the standard sedan, although usually they are better equipped. Um, only one of them (the A7) is actually a hatch. The CLS and 6 GC are just really stylish sedans.
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Dec 13, 2011 05:53
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The CLS is a fastback, the 6 GC is a notchback, the 5 GT, A7 and A5 Sportback are hatchbacks. v v
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Dec 13, 2011 06:01
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Throatwarbler posted:The CLS is a fastback, the 6 GC is a notchback So... not hatches. Awesome. quote:the 5 GT, A7 and A5 Sportback are hatchbacks. v ok, I think we're pretty square on the A7 being a hatch at this point. But the 5 GT isn't remotely the same kind of vehicle as the CLS and 6 GC. Like, not even a little bit, it's just some weird automotive platypus. A5 is debatable, it doesn't share a lot of the common elements of that segment of cars. Anyway, to answer the other guys question. The marketing departments seem to have decided these things should be called 4 door Coupes. If you look at the CLS/6GC/A7 they share certain qualities. They're a normal sedan, restyled to be more sporty/swoopy looking, sold at a premium with a 2+2 seating configuration.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:46
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angryhampster posted:Agreed. The new Durangos are also gorgeous, inside and out. The new Grand Cherokee got the same treatment as well. My parents just bought an '12 GC, black with the saddle interior. It's a gorgeous car. They originally wanted the 3.6L, thankfully the dealer could only hunt down a 5.7L HEMI so that's what they ended up with. Not too much speed (even with 360hp/390lb-ft) but plenty of class, unlike my girlfriend's '08 GC, which has neither.
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Dec 13, 2011 08:24
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Q_res posted:So... not hatches. Awesome. Maybe it's more correct to call the A7 a "liftback". This is far more time than I've ever spent thinking about these boring old man cars.
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Dec 13, 2011 09:11
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Throatwarbler posted:Maybe it's more correct to call the A7 a "liftback". This is far more time than I've ever spent thinking about these boring old man cars. Blasphemy! I'm 27 and would rock the A7 all day long... Walk into a dealer and just sit in one and tell me you wouldn't. If you can test drive one and tell me you wouldn't, I'd take away your AI card...
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Dec 14, 2011 08:17
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