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So, going by the various suggestions that are coming out I guess I'm missing something. It's impossible for Goonlance to avoid being shot at by the Stalker this turn? Or I guess 2 PPCs against 2 LRM10s is just that good. Oh and do note the bombardier's small laser can set off the ammo, as well as the machinegun and maybe the urbie punch (not sure how much damage) if you get in range (the gaussbie setting off the ammo with a punch would be hilarious). cwDeici fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 17:29
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:At this point, though, hate to say it, your Ostroc is more or less an ablative distraction for the other Goonlance 'mechs. I've been going with that assumption for a couple of turns now. I'm going to be happy if I stay in the battle long enough to at least see off the Whitworth and distract the Stalker from shooting the mechs that aren't completely wrecked for at least one turn. Anything past that is gravy. e: Speaking of the Stalker I just noticed something that I think might be an error, the update says that it's at +1 to hit but it only seems to have moved 2 hexes. Also puzzled as to how the Bombadier managed to get where it did by only walking cause I thought moving backwards increased MP cost. e2: Felime posted:Reverse is the same cost, just you can't run. ActionZero fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 17:46
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Hey guys. I've been lurking in this thread for a while, but figured I'd break my vow of silence to give my two cents on the Luthien OpFor discussion. I think that having a Goon controlled OpFor would be a bad idea. It just means more orders that Poptarts needs to recive before he could send out an update. Now, a Goon on Goon battle set in MegaMek running concurrent with the Luthien fight would: A: Be awesome. B: Not be so taxing on the update schedule. That's what I think, anyway.
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Dec 10, 2011 17:58
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Reverse is the same cost, just you can't run.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:00
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Crap, I thought Goon-victory was a foregone conclusion a turn or three ago, things are starting to look a lot closer than I thought.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:07
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The Ostroc is still a perfectly combat effective mech. It doesn't have an XL Engine. Stop letting it get shot! Just keep ignoring the Bombardier. It has a grand total of 1 shot left. After that it is a really slow SRM-4 that might retreat off the map if it has no targets. Keep the building between you and the Stalker while finishing off the Whitworth and the Urbie. Easy win.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:10
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You guys have hurt mechs but really you have no loss to firepower this round. If you all focus firepower they will end up with a bombardier with like Knox said an srm 4 and 2 mediums and a stalker. Under concentrated fire, the stalker will die quick, it is the literal example of a mech filled to the brim with ammo.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:14
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TildeATH posted:I don't see any problem with goons playing the Luthien side, with PTN enforcing all his horrible restrictions on them. And the kicker is that if some DC goon doesn't get his orders in to PTN in a timely manner, he can just be overriden by Poptarts to keep the game from slowing down. You realize that in functional terms that PTN loosing initiative every time is why enemies have already moved on every tactical update, right? If goons were playing both sides, he'd have to: post damage results from the turn before, wait for one side's movement order, update the map and post those, wait for the other side's movement orders, post those, then wait for firing orders from both. It would easily double the overall time for every turn (even if both sides had much more restricted windows to get orders in, since there would be two separate rounds of orders needed for each) and it would triple the number of updates he'd have to write (even though each individual update would contain less info.) NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 18:16
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I think I'd vote for the Gladiator to break into that heavy building to hold the choke and harass the Stalker from relative safety. This might buy the others some time to clear the field of the Whitworth at the least. Can the Awesome continue moving south to get to the building but torso twist to put potshots into the Whitworth as well? I think you can run to 0212 or 0213 and do that. You'll be giving the Stalker free shots, unfortunately, but you would anyways. The Ostroc... I'm really not sure. Finish the Whitworth and try to sprint past the choke to the heavy building also? Lots of eggs in one basket, but the building can take a lot more abuse than you can right now.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:22
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Dolash posted:Crap, I thought Goon-victory was a foregone conclusion a turn or three ago, things are starting to look a lot closer than I thought. I'd call it a 50/50 at this point, depending a lot on how the first few Awesome barrages on the Stalker go. If the Stalker gets holed in at least one section before it closes to prime firing range, they can get it. If not, it's gonna massacre the Awesome and then Goonlance is pretty hosed.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:29
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NmareBfly posted:You realize that in functional terms that PTN loosing initiative every time is why enemies have already moved on every tactical update, right? If goons were playing both sides, he'd have to: post damage results from the turn before, wait for one side's movement order, update the map and post those, wait for the other side's movement orders, post those, then wait for firing orders from both. It would easily double the overall time for every turn (even if both sides had much more restricted windows to get orders in, since there would be two separate rounds of orders needed for each) and it would triple the number of updates he'd have to write (even though each individual update would contain less info.) You're right, I forgot about the whole movement phase that would need to be added. I thought the worry was in alternating individual mechs based on individual initiative, which would be absurdly unworkable. But I mean, come on, tripling the updates isn't such an imposition to place on somebody doing something in his spare time for free. Unless he's lazy, or scared.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:38
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Gladiator can jump the hardened building and land on the otherside in the notch to protect from the urbie and open up on the bombardier, ostroc walks forward 3 and destroys the whitworth with an alpha and a kic. Awesome begins dueling the stalker, next turn gladiator hops back over and pumps into the stalkers rear armor to make it  of here.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:40
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Tempest_56 posted:I'd call it a 50/50 at this point, depending a lot on how the first few Awesome barrages on the Stalker go. If the Stalker gets holed in at least one section before it closes to prime firing range, they can get it. If not, it's gonna massacre the Awesome and then Goonlance is pretty hosed. I would put it at 80/20 at the worst. This is level 1 play, so losing side torsos is no big deal at all, especially as few mechs are completely heat neutral with all of their weapons. Then you look at the OpFor. A Whitworth that will die soon, a Bombardier with no ammo, a completely garbage Urbanmech, and a Stalker that is basically a 5 gunner with its missiles on this map. Just keep the Stalker out of your sights and take out the Whitworth and Urbanmech.
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Dec 10, 2011 18:42
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Guitar_Hero posted:Is it possible for me to jump to 0518 to get out of the way of the Stalker? If the jump is possible - I appreciate there's a level 3 building in the way, that lets me get at the Bombardier without getting shot at by the Urbie. I think. AtomikKrab posted:Gladiator can jump the hardened building and land on the otherside in the notch to protect from the urbie... Not saying it's a bad place to jump, but I don't think LOS is actually broken there? I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but is LOS busted if it goes through a hex that contains a building, or does it only count if it actually hits the edge? Because, I mean:  (LOS is center of hex to center of hex, right?)
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Dec 10, 2011 18:50
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Rivensteel posted:I think I'd vote for the Gladiator to break into that heavy building to hold the choke and harass the Stalker from relative safety. This might buy the others some time to clear the field of the Whitworth at the least. I wouldn't do that, since most likely the glad is going to be rolling to take damage from moving into the building, and it only has a few internals on the torso. Also for all the faults of the stalker it can put out alot of firepower... meaning it could easily collapse the building on the glad, doing the same thing. NmareBfly posted:Not saying it's a bad place to jump, but I don't think LOS is actually broken there? I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but is LOS busted if it goes through a hex that contains a building, or does it only count if it actually hits the edge? Because, I mean: I'm not sure about PTN rules, but i know in standard rules the building is considered filling the whole hex, so since it clips the hex with the building, it is out of LOS.
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Dec 10, 2011 19:03
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KnoxZone posted:The Ostroc is still a perfectly combat effective mech. It doesn't have an XL Engine. Stop letting it get shot! This is correct. At this point, your priority should be giving the other guy tougher shots rather than giving yourself easier ones. Optimal range is 4-5 on the Whitworth, and try and get at least a +2 in movement or maybe put some trees between you and him.
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Dec 10, 2011 19:03
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I'm thinking of running to 0906 so I have +2 to my movement and trees covering me and then from there shooting the Whitworth with my Large Lasers (think that the various to hit mods from that location and movement make my other weapons almost impossible to hit at medium range).
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Dec 10, 2011 19:32
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ActionZero posted:I'm thinking of running to 0906 so I have +2 to my movement and trees covering me and then from there shooting the Whitworth with my Large Lasers (think that the various to hit mods from that location and movement make my other weapons almost impossible to hit at medium range). You could do that, or you could run into the forest at 1107 and unload with a Large, both Mediums, and the SRMs. Hitting the Whitworth with the SRMs would have a very very very high probability of putting it down. You would still be almost perfectly safe from the Whitworth, (TH10s with the lasers) and both the Bombardier and Urbanmech would be at long range with TH11 on you. Also, in regards to the players being OpFor. Unfortunately it is probably a bad idea, and I am not sure how to work it... Unless you make me OpFor. I am always online and always in #megamek. I will have all turns submitted within 5 minutes. Although I definitely wouldn't play super fluffy like PTN does. gently caress da Clanners 
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Dec 10, 2011 19:55
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KnoxZone posted:Keep the building between you and the Stalker while finishing off the Whitworth and the Urbie. Easy win. This. I don't know why most people seem to be suggesting putting the Awesome's PPCs on the Stalker, rather than making sure the Whitworth is dead and starting on the Gaussbie. Is the movement to do so really that bad? From what my totally noob eyes can tell the Awesome and Gladiator could put the western building between themselves and the Stalker and Gaussbie (by going southeast and returning to last turn's position respectively) while the Ostroc can do the same by going further northeast, so that Goonlance only suffers from the Bombardier and Whitworth this turn, while focus firing on the Whitworth (it seems the Bombardier is already leaving) before tackling the Gaussbie together the next round and then hacking up the Stalker with superior mobility. PS. Come to think of it if most of the missiles don't hit a missile group might fail to blow off the right torso... cwDeici fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 20:03
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Axe-man posted:I'm not sure about PTN rules, but i know in standard rules the building is considered filling the whole hex, so since it clips the hex with the building, it is out of LOS. If the LOS is drawn through a hex even partially containing a building, it's blocked as normal (unless both attacker and defender want to shoot at each other). Hob_Gadling posted:Yes, naturally. Without PTN it won't happen. As tempting as it is (and believe me, I would love to see goons giving to charity for my thread), it would probably be difficult mechanically, and potentially boring since the Kurita forces are in a position where they can simply wait for the Clanners to come to them. Then again, what's the Draconis Combine without a small army of military advisors giving terrible advice? Especially since anyone committed to charity is probably going to be devoted to posting orders as frequently as possible. I'll have to think on this, which isn't a 'yes' (I'd hoped that a PVP mission would be a smaller one; and there is a definite force imbalance in the Luthien mission). In this case, 'maybe' really does mean 'maybe.' Edit: Also, sad news: I have to write the machine-gun ammo explosion as an actual explosion. :C At least I can claim the propellant is a hyper-dense explosive. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 20:51
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KnoxZone posted:Unless you make me OpFor. I am always online and always in #megamek. I will have all turns submitted within 5 minutes. Although I definitely wouldn't play super fluffy like PTN does. gently caress da Clanners I would think that would be VERY fluffy. Goonlance hasn't really faced anyone backed into a corner. The DCMS is probably going to pull all the stops and whip their mechjocks into line for this one. E: Though I'm actually really interested in seeing PTN set up a scenario, then go full throttle with what he's given himself.
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Dec 10, 2011 20:54
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PoptartsNinja posted:Edit: Also, sad news: I have to write the machine-gun ammo explosion as an actual explosion. :C Well it was a creative solution but alas, the canon holders hold on it like a life vest.
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Dec 10, 2011 22:28
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I'm really against the idea of goons fighting goons during regularly-sized missions; The thread moves slow enough as it is. I do look forward to the smaller-scale Solaris VII matches, though (In fact, I'm probably one of their strongest proponents in this thread!). And sorry for probably spoiling the overall mood here, but this has been bugging me every time a possible clan mission gets mentioned (which always triggers the same three or four kinds of comments). I have this strong suspicion that the sudden desire to have a PvP match right now is less motivated by a genuine wish to donate to charity and much more by a burning hatred of a few people towards anything clan-related. The more I see them post about it, the less I understand the motivations behind it. Why try so hard to gimp the villains this early and at every possible step? Wouldn't this just take some steam out of the overall narrative? And why this extreme focus on the clans, when ComStar is evil on a much more self-aware and deliberate level? I just don't get it. I've been changing words and sentences around for awhile now, but I don't know how to not make this post sound like a provocation or a belligerent call-out, which is not my intention. Just explain your motivations to me, please? Is the ultimate goal not to have the clans be part of the setting (At least in a militarily and politically relevant way)? It's like you're all seeing something that I don't.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:00
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Gimmick Account posted:I have this strong suspicion that the sudden desire to have a PvP match right now is less motivated by a genuine wish to donate to charity and much more by a burning hatred of a few people towards anything clan-related. It was my idea in the first place, and I don't hate the Clans (I hate Victor, Kai and especially Phelan). Defense of Luthien is the single most epic fight in the history of Battletech. Everyone who played MW2: Mercenaries back in the day knows what I mean. This is it, the best the whole universe has to offer. I'm simply excited about it.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:09
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Hob_Gadling posted:It was my idea in the first place, and I don't hate the Clans (I hate Victor, Kai and especially Phelan). Defense of Luthien is the single most epic fight in the history of Battletech. Everyone who played MW2: Mercenaries back in the day knows what I mean. This is it, the best the whole universe has to offer. I'm simply excited about it. I agree that it's clearly the most important event yet, but we have no idea how many different paths PoptartsNinja has planned out even in the event of a clan victory at Luthien. The story could go anywhere, seeing as there are so many options that were not followed up upon in the canon timeline, all for the sake of keeping established powers alive and stable. And if you don't hate the clans, then my post mostly wasn't adressed at you. There are people here who seem to get very emotional whenever the subject comes up, which often results in those awful and unsportsmanlike 'HARHAR I HOPE GOONSTAR LOSES' posts.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:20
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Interesting things will happen if Goonstar wins. Somewhat less interesting status quo will happen if they lose.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:34
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Hob_Gadling posted:It was my idea in the first place, and I don't hate the Clans (I hate Victor, Kai and especially Phelan). Defense of Luthien is the single most epic fight in the history of Battletech. Everyone who played MW2: Mercenaries back in the day knows what I mean. This is it, the best the whole universe has to offer. I'm simply excited about it. I would like to see this (hell, all of 1-4 even) updated and rereleased with modern graphical and physics technology, possibly as some massive all in one pack. Hell, imagine MW2 in MW4 style even.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:34
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No partial LoS? That's great, means 0906 is safe from the gaussbie!
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Dec 11, 2011 00:39
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Okay, my orders are in. Jumping to 0518 to put some hurt on the Bombardier, which will also give me the option of taking on the Urbie or the Stalker next turn.
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Dec 11, 2011 00:45
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KnoxZone posted:You could do that, or you could run into the forest at 1107 and unload with a Large, both Mediums, and the SRMs. Hitting the Whitworth with the SRMs would have a very very very high probability of putting it down. You would still be almost perfectly safe from the Whitworth, (TH10s with the lasers) and both the Bombardier and Urbanmech would be at long range with TH11 on you. I like it, going with this then. Sending my orders now. God willing presenting my right flank to the Whitworth won't get me blown the hell up (moving into that hex uses my last MP and has me pointing NE). e: sent ActionZero fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 01:53
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Guitar_Hero posted:Okay, my orders are in. Jumping to 0518 to put some hurt on the Bombardier, which will also give me the option of taking on the Urbie or the Stalker next turn. Why? Why are you doing this? This is a terrible plan. You should completely ignore the Bombardier at this point.
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Dec 11, 2011 01:55
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A mech is not standing still in the hex it is in. If in a forest it is putting trees between itself and the enemy as best as possible, near a height one hill, hugging that hill to get the best cover. Near that building it is going to minimize the abilty of the enemy to shoot at it unless it can't.KnoxZone posted:Why? Why are you doing this? This is a terrible plan. You should completely ignore the Bombardier at this point. Gladiator really doesn't want to stand against the stalker right now, next turn it jumps back and gets some REAR ARMOR ACTION. The awesome duels the stalker to make it have to choose between staying back with the lrms or getting close to try to kill the awesome. Awesome should try to keep out of large laser range and just pound out shots with the remaining ppcs.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:09
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AtomikKrab posted:A mech is not standing still in the hex it is in. If in a forest it is putting trees between itself and the enemy as best as possible, near a height one hill, hugging that hill to get the best cover. Near that building it is going to minimize the abilty of the enemy to shoot at it unless it can't. No mech should be in the Stalkers LOS this turn. Just jump northeast and keep the building between you. No point in getting into the Bombardier's SRM range when you don't need to.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:14
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KnoxZone posted:No mech should be in the Stalkers LOS this turn. Just jump northeast and keep the building between you. The Awesome and Gladiator can get out of the urbies ability to hit with the gauss this turn. one by keeping the height 3 building between them, the other by jumping and engaging the bombardier. This also gives the gladiator a possible melee range attack or the urbie or rear armor shots on the stalker. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING. Also don't fire a lot at the bombardier, whatever will let you get back to heat 0 (you are at 2). the Stalker or the Urbie are your real targets. AtomikKrab fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 02:17
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AtomikKrab posted:The Awesome and Gladiator can get out of the urbies ability to hit with the gauss this turn. one by keeping the height 3 building between them, the other by jumping and engaging the bombardier. This also gives the gladiator a possible melee range attack or the urbie or rear armor shots on the stalker. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING. It can easily stay out of the Urbies LOS by jumping northeast and staying behind the building. I just see no point in engaging a slow untouched mech that PTN has said will probably retreat if it has no easy way to engage.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:21
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KnoxZone posted:It can easily stay out of the Urbies LOS by jumping northeast and staying behind the building. I just see no point in engaging a slow untouched mech that PTN has said will probably retreat if it has no easy way to engage. STALKER STALKER STALKER NOT THE BOMBARDIER. THE STALKER IS THE REAL TARGET ARE YOU NOT LISTENING. You are directly arguing about something that is merely a bonus to the point of this move. Backstabbing the Stalker. If the gladiator jumps where you want it, it will have no real chance of backstabbing the stalker.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:24
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AtomikKrab posted:STALKER STALKER STALKER NOT THE BOMBARDIER. THE STALKER IS THE REAL TARGET ARE YOU NOT LISTENING. You are directly arguing about something that is merely a bonus to the point of this move. Backstabbing the Stalker. If the gladiator jumps where you want it, it will have no real chance of backstabbing the stalker. You are talking about a 3/5 assault mech on this huge map that always loses initiative. Backstabbing it is not going to be an issue. For now, the players shouldn't even think about engaging it until the Urban and the Whitworth die.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:26
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KnoxZone posted:You are talking about a 3/5 assault mech on this huge map that always loses initiative. Backstabbing it is not going to be an issue. For now, the players shouldn't even think about engaging it until the Urban and the Whitworth die. The whitworth dies this turn. The Gladiator can get into a great position and should. You are saying RUN AWAY a nearly mint mech. 5 armor to each arm is just a scratch. Heck if the enemy gets dumb you could get a backshot on that urbie with the gauss within the minimum range on that gauss and alpha it for an instant kill through the paper thin armor on it. I am invoking that this is silly and we all need to shut up. IT IS NOW SO. Let the player decide.
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Dec 11, 2011 02:39
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Actually I think it has above even odds of survival if it is only facing the Ostroc alpha-strike (Awesome-Stalker, Gladiator-Bombardier from the last statements of intent I saw). If I'm doing the math right it jumpjetted for +3 to movement modifiers, and with the two forest hexes the Ostroc is putting between itself and the Whitworth (I'm counting partial LoS obstruction as full) the Large Lasers will need 11s to hit (at 9,16% chance or a cumulative 16,1%) and then roll center torso, though a hit would kill it instantaneously oc, and there's also criticals, headcaps and the SRM and the medium lasers bringing it to close to half. Thankfully the Whitworth won't be able to hit it much either! Edit: Noticed the above post, so I shortened mine to just direct math. cwDeici fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 04:49
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PoptartsNinja posted:The storm battered at Sergeant Cage’s Awesome, more persistent than any human foe. Rain fell in rolling sheets, pummeling the Awesome’s battered armor relentlessly. The downpour seemed to pause momentarily as her PPCs discharged, the heat of their passage simply re-vaporizing falling rain in a wide swath in front of her. I know this is from like five pages ago, but this is an incredible bit of short fiction. It conveys so much information and feeling in a scant two paragraphs that it is phenomenal. I hope you consider writing full time, because I will buy the poo poo out of your work
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Dec 11, 2011 05:19
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