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Jonnty posted:Yeah, I wondered that. I'd actually like to think the forest was real, because you'd expect it to be a smog-filled apocalyptic wasteland and it's fairly original to suggest anything else. It ties in with the treadmill thing, too - maybe whoever created the whole system decided we needed to protect the environment from humans, and we've become entirely self-sufficient, allowing the world outside to flourish. They're definitely screens. Seems like a take on the ending of Brazil.
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Dec 12, 2011 01:56
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Flatscan posted:They're definitely screens. Seems like a take on the ending of Brazil. Why are they definitely screens? I think others interpretations of it are just as valid. Someone tweet Charlie and ask him. I interpreted the message of the show to be that most people work a terrible drudge and have horrible lives and they see the X-factor or other talent shows as a way out of it. The adverts for Hot Shots said that now they've "won" they get to finally be free, and that's what happened to Bing at the end. Now he's free, because he won. His message of rebellion has been pre-packed and is now "safe" for everyone to see, and he's been rewarded for it. If the view is a screen, it rather takes away from that idea. I did enjoy it, but I also thought last week was better. Last week had more of a buildup, and I've also read a lot of science fiction/watched a lot of X-factor so there wasn't a lot "new" on offer here. I'm not saying it was bad, it just didn't grab me.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:16
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Taear posted:If the view is a screen, it rather takes away from that idea. If the view is a screen, then he only ever upgraded. It was never freedom.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:17
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ibroxmassive posted:If the view is a screen, then he only ever upgraded. It was never freedom. Yes thanks, that's exactly what I just said.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:22
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Rarity posted:That was amazing. Bing's speech was so good, and to watch even that get turned and twisted by the mass market consumption machine was heartbreaking
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Dec 12, 2011 02:23
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I thought that The National Anthem felt like a Jam sketch that went on for too long, but 15 Million Merits was absolutely outstanding. So loving bleak.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:26
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If it's only screens, then it underlines that he only chose the illusion of freedom in the end. Abi's still in the wraith channel, he has only earned the ability to ignore it. He's sold his soul, and was granted only damnation, too cowardly to even kill himself.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:31
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Taear posted:Yes thanks, that's exactly what I just said. It works against the story to have the view be an actual forest though. It would mean that there was 'somewhere' to escape to outside of the system, having screens shows how everyone is still actually trapped inside it, you're just moving from the birdcage to the aviary.
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Dec 12, 2011 02:37
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Pablo Bluth posted:You need to pedal harder. Worth it for this. Otherwise I thought it was so-so. Also, since I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere.. Julia Davis, the Hope judge... did no-one else see her in the Wraith ads, implying that she is / was one of his 'stars'? Plus her little tear at the end, and the bit about medicating happiness. No? Was I imagining that?
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Dec 12, 2011 02:50
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Impossible for the cyclists to be the sole source of power for all that, though, right? So there must have been some other power source. So whatever force runs the society is keeping all the masses (cyclists, cleaners) alive for... what?
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Dec 12, 2011 03:05
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sebzilla posted:Impossible for the cyclists to be the sole source of power for all that, though, right? So there must have been some other power source. So whatever force runs the society is keeping all the masses (cyclists, cleaners) alive for... what? I guess a plot hole for this one is that the cyclists must be using more power than they generate just for the room full of TVs and the TV in front of their cycle.
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Dec 12, 2011 03:06
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Taear posted:I guess a plot hole for this one is that the cyclists must be using more power than they generate just for the room full of TVs and the TV in front of their cycle. And producing the food they eat and whatever other assorted physical goods they require. Let alone supporting the "elite" which would theoretically be the only point of running such a system in the first place. But whatever, it's still a great bit of TV. Well worth 1,000 points.
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Dec 12, 2011 03:09
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I like the idea that the bikes aren't actually connected to anything at all. It's make-work to keep people busy. You don't need a reason to keep the workers alive, only the most despotic governments actually MURDER their own citizens. But if you take it as a given that you're not going to commit genocide, keeping people under control and distracted makes some sense. It might be a world of near 100% structural unemployment (everything being automated to a high degree), to prevent widespread unrest you keep people fed but exhausted. As seen by the daily mail guy, do that for long enough and you build up a culture of disdain for anyone who ISN'T killing themselves with pointless make-work.
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Dec 12, 2011 03:20
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sebzilla posted:Impossible for the cyclists to be the sole source of power for all that, though, right? So there must have been some other power source. So whatever force runs the society is keeping all the masses (cyclists, cleaners) alive for... what? Why does our current government keep chavs alive?
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Dec 12, 2011 03:21
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I think you have to assume that when they said people on bikes were powering everything, they meant it metaphorically. Like "society only functions because of people doing the right thing" or whatever. I thought the "merit points" thing fell between two stools and they should have just been called "credits" or something. Otherwise, why would you get merit points taken away for brushing your teeth, eating healthily, and washing your hands? One thing I liked was when Bing first tried to chat up Abi at the vending machine, he mentioned getting into a vicious cycle where you start craving sugar and so have to spend more. Maybe they came up with that on their own but it could be a reference to "The Space Merchants" by Pohl and Kornbluth.
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Dec 12, 2011 03:22
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Fatkraken posted:I like the idea that the bikes aren't actually connected to anything at all. It's make-work to keep people busy. Yeah, that makes sense. Flatscan posted:Why does our current government keep chavs alive? Because they probably wouldn't get re-elected if they didn't. Close call, though. Dole scrounging scumbags etc. Let them starve if they don't want to work.
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Dec 12, 2011 03:30
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Fatkraken posted:I like the idea that the bikes aren't actually connected to anything at all. It's make-work to keep people busy. You can interpret different parts as homages to those. Like I said, the doomed relationship of Abi and Bing was the same as Winston and Julia's from 1984, or Guy and Clarisse's from Farenheit 451. The demonisation of fat people and their acceptance of their role in society similar to that of the lower castes in Brave New World, and then the programs and games dedicated to mocking and degrading them providing an object of hatred like that of the 2 minutes hate in 1984. The commodification of dissent, especially that of taking the madman's televised mental breakdown and turning it into a TV show is pure Network. The facebook redefining of words seems quite alike Newspeak as well. Charlie needs to get a Pegg/Frost/Wright-esque homage-o-meter for the DVD release!
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Dec 12, 2011 04:00
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Love Like Blood posted:I just thought it was like this. That sort of society was well described in Brave New World and Farenheit 451 (I saw the whole program as a sort of mix of Network and Brave New World, with the rebellious love interest of 1984 thrown in for more depth) with everyone basically just being kept busy to prevent disorder. Good calls on the classics. As someone said earlier, you know something is dark when you are HOPING the protagonist will kill himself because it's preferable to the alternatives. Brave New World ends with a suicide right? 1984 with the protagonist giving up and I don't recall Farenheit 451 other than the parts with the main guy living like a hobo.
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Dec 12, 2011 04:16
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Fahrenheit 451 ends with the hero escaping the society and outliving it as a war destroys the city. 1984 too has an implicit good ending, as the notes on newspeak are written in universe and in the past tense.
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Dec 12, 2011 04:24
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Farenheit manages to end with the cheeriest nuclear holocaust ever.
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Dec 12, 2011 04:25
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Love Like Blood posted:Farenheit manages to end with the cheeriest nuclear holocaust ever. cheerier than this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4VlruVG81w
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Dec 12, 2011 04:37
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Holy poo poo, after Merits I had to go out for a walk for a while. Way too many screens in my house all of a sudden. About half an hour into the walk I was into the city and watching people gather around a department store window watching the LCD televisions displayed there and most of them were highlighting the high definition aspects by showing beaches and screens of the Blue Mountains which aren't that far away from where I live, probably a half hour car journey, and someone said something about how beautiful it looked and I don't think they were talking about the actual mountains themselves. It was like they had never seen them before and watching them on the screen was some kind of magic. drat that show hit me hard. Well loving done.
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Dec 12, 2011 06:02
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The Inbetweeners Movie is terrible, how does it have such positive reviews? 
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Dec 12, 2011 06:24
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feedmyleg posted:The Inbetweeners Movie is terrible, how does it have such positive reviews? It's like a poo poo Kevin and Perry Go Large.
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Dec 12, 2011 06:30
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feedmyleg posted:The Inbetweeners Movie is terrible, how does it have such positive reviews? Well, glad I didn't buy it early as a christmas present to myself now.
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Dec 12, 2011 06:54
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Just finished Black Mirror there. Enjoyed it, but because the setting was much more out there than last week's it took me longer to get "into" it. Thought a few things about the world should have been expanded on in favour of the arsehole guy laughing at fat people again, especially since it was 90 minutes. More glimpses into how the rest of the system operates, a bit more background into the different "cities" that Abi mentioned. It felt like it went too far explaining the self-evident details and not far enough into the rest. If it was all supposed to be ambiguous and totally unanswered (about the world they live in) then a lot of the first half was wasted. Now, the speech. The actor was great, amazing delivery. The way his shoulders were pumping up and down at the end like a wild animal was really intense. The monologue itself though, get hosed. Can't believe he actually put the word "sanctimonious" in there with a straight face. Charlie Brooker is a media celebrity. He's done panel shows. He's done Big Fat Quiz of the Year. He gets paid to rant every week. I think he's an intelligent guy, who has a keen eye for certain things and has a decent degree of self-awareness. So I hope that speech wasn't 100% sincere, or it's an absolute mess.
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Dec 12, 2011 06:57
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Hoops posted:The monologue itself though, get hosed. Can't believe he actually put the word "sanctimonious" in there with a straight face. Charlie Brooker is a media celebrity. He's done panel shows. He's done Big Fat Quiz of the Year. He gets paid to rant every week. I think he's an intelligent guy, who has a keen eye for certain things and has a decent degree of self-awareness. So I hope that speech wasn't 100% sincere, or it's an absolute mess. I think he is self aware enough to realize that what he does is a commodity just like anything he mocks. I don't think he wrote that without realizing that the character ends up with that universe's version of his job.
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Dec 12, 2011 07:03
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Robotnik DDS posted:I think he is self aware enough to realize that what he does is a commodity just like anything he mocks. I don't think he wrote that without realizing that the character ends up with that universe's version of his job. I've just considered it a completely different way actually as I was writing that. I initally took the message of the episode to be "mass media wah wah wah, everything is a commodity boo hoo hoo why are the public such sheep". But maybe he's arguing that in the real world, not just in Black Mirror, even the people who genuinely believe X Factor is killing society will all sell their soul in the end. So it's undermining that (childish) opinion rather than championing it. Under that interpretation, Abi and Bing aren't honest, hopeful people that got swallowed up by the machine, they're just plain old sellouts and that's all they ever were, just like the rest of us. Both are pretty tragic, but I think the second one is actually far bleaker. I'm not sure I believe that's what the message was, but it's interesting. Hoops fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 12, 2011 |
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Dec 12, 2011 07:19
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You can see Brookers self-awareness that he, himself, has become another TV celeb taking the piss out of TV celebs kick in around the last series of screenwipe. He'd be reviewing something like Paul Ross' big book of horror, go onto rant about who in their right might would watch a television show with someone sitting around talking and talking and talking .. and then pause with this look of horror on his face. It's at around 6:35 here and I seem to remember him doing a lot of this in series five. I hope he doesn't feel too much like a part of the machine he used to make an effort to stand outside of but yes he has become a commodity and he knows it, hell without youtube, the internet and places like Reddit or Twitter he would probably not be that well known and moved on to participating in television instead of simply mocking it and pointing at it's problems. The speech doesn't remind me of Brooker; the removal and relocation to a nicer room with a better screen does. He's a product of the same terrible fate that the newsreader in Network faced. Likened so much for his acerbic comments he has become That Guy What Is All Angry and Witty and placed himself inside a box. Not a small box like the first series of screenwipe but a bigger box like panel shows, 10 live and then deadset. His own worst enemy poor Charlie 
Local Group Bus fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Dec 12, 2011 |
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Dec 12, 2011 07:25
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Now let's be childish.
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Dec 12, 2011 09:55
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Usually when people talk about an hour of fanny on TV, they're referring to Hollyoaks.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:08
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I wish someone would put that speech on youtube. I tried to watch it on 4OD but didn't have enough merits to skip all the ads. 
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Dec 12, 2011 12:25
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A5H posted:I wish someone would put that speech on youtube.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:31
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Hoops posted:If you install Adblocker then 4oD skips the adverts. I haven't seen an advert on 4oD in over a year, it works great. I'm on chrome. Firefox kept loving up.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:32
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Hoops posted:If you install Adblocker then 4oD skips the adverts. I haven't seen an advert on 4oD in over a year, it works great. I never realised that was the case, I just thought they'd done away with ads! Thanks, adblocker! A5H posted:I'm on chrome. Firefox kept loving up. You can get adblocker on Chrome now too. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gighmmpiobklfepjocnamgkkbiglidom
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Dec 12, 2011 12:35
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Tampax posted:
Chrome can't skip ads within flash or something apparently. I already have it and it does nothing.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:38
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A5H posted:Chrome can't skip ads within flash or something apparently. I already have it and it does nothing. Ah poo poo. Sorry dude.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:39
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Black Mirror was really good. I didn't see the first episode so I had nothing to compare it to (seems most people thought the second episode was better though). It was so bleak and claustrophobic And I agree with whoever said the ad breaks actually made it better. I thought it was only an hour long so I was really expecting him to stab himself so he didn't have to watch Abi doing porn, but the actual ending was even more depressing as he just gives in and becomes part of the machine. I thought the forest was a screen at the end, I think that makes more sense as he's basically buying the illusion of a better life when really it's just the same and he just gets a bigger cell with a better view. Is anyone else looking forward to This Is England '88? '86 is back up on 4oD for anyone who didn't watch it. Apparently '88 is going to be very bleak...but hopefully not as outright horrible and disturbing as '86.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:42
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blaarghh posted:Is anyone else looking forward to This Is England '88? '86 is back up on 4oD for anyone who didn't watch it. Apparently '88 is going to be very bleak...but hopefully not as outright horrible and disturbing as '86. Only if the girl with the boiled-egg-face isn't in it. She's upsetting to look at.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:44
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Local Group Bus posted:You can see Brookers self-awareness that he, himself, has become another TV celeb taking the piss out of TV celebs kick in around the last series of screenwipe. He'd be reviewing something like Paul Ross' big book of horror, go onto rant about who in their right might would watch a television show with someone sitting around talking and talking and talking .. and then pause with this look of horror on his face. It's at around 6:35 here and I seem to remember him doing a lot of this in series five. To be honest, you see this theme throughout is TV work, not just on the stuff where he's playing a variation of "himself". Nathan Barley is a good example. Dan Ashcroft is very much a variant on the Brooker archetype in some ways, a shambolic misanthropic outsider who criticizes the system from the edge but is gradually drawn in to become the very thing he hates. Dan is a very UNsympahtetic character, he's nothing but bile and disappointment, and at his heart he's just as hateful, petty and reactionary as the idiots he claims to hate.
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Dec 12, 2011 12:45
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