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Lone Rogue posted:WCW hit other parts of New York. Also, I think WCW and WWF had different deals with different arenas. I don't recall the WWF hitting up the Palace of Auburn Hills much, just as I don't recall WCW using Joe Louis Arena much. Well aside from Halloween Havoc 94 and 95, they never really went back to the Joe. There was a Nitro in 1997 that I remember, but they were pretty much always at the Palace
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Dec 12, 2011 18:23
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MrBling posted:In 1999 and 2000 it was pretty much home to all the cruiserweights that weren't Rey Mysterio and all the lower and mid card guys like Team Canada (pre-insane Lance Storm push) and Misfits in Action. Come on, the Lance Storm push had some great moments. Three title defences in one night! That's good television.
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Dec 12, 2011 22:05
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Arbite posted:Come on, the Lance Storm push had some great moments. Three title defences in one night! That's good television. I don't know if I'm remembering incorrectly, but up until Lance Storm formed Team Canada, he was booked personally by Terry Taylor on a bet with Vince Russo. Then Russo took over his booking once he was over and gave him Elix "CFL" Skipper, Traitor Jim Duggan and Hostage Tylene Buck.
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Dec 12, 2011 22:07
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Lone Rogue posted:I don't know if I'm remembering incorrectly, but up until Lance Storm formed Team Canada, he was booked personally by Terry Taylor on a bet with Vince Russo. Then Russo took over his booking once he was over and gave him Elix "CFL" Skipper, Traitor Jim Duggan and Hostage Tylene Buck. That's Major Gunns to you 
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Dec 12, 2011 22:15
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I never learned Elix wasn't a CFL player until Lance's shoot from early 2011. It was still real to me, dammit. 
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Dec 12, 2011 22:29
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Sue Denim posted:The aura of respect he was treated with within WCW in and outside of kayfabe compared to how he's presented and received in TNA is really depressing. Something I find really interesting about this is that there were plenty of times during the last few years of WCW where it seemed like those running WCW were doing everything they could to discredit/humiliate Flair.... and for the most part the fans just ignored it and kept on loving Flair because it was Ric "By God!" Flair, goddammit. When it all fell apart and plenty of the people responsible for the damage were deserting the sinking ship, Flair stuck around and the fans still loved him - his promo on the last ever Nitro made me completely change my take on Flair as a washed up hasbeen clinging desperately on - as somebody who had always backed WWF over WCW and was putting on my shoes to dance on WCW's grave, his promo made me feel strongly for WCW as an organization and hate Vince McMahon for "killing" it. When he returned to WWF in that amazing "THE CONSORTIUM...... WAS ME!" moment, I really felt he'd finally found a way to stay in wrestling without having to actually wrestle anymore. I was wrong, and he wrestled plenty after that, but even then he was still involved in some amazing matches, and his retirement match at Mania was an amazing spectacle and the absolutely perfect way to go out. I'm so sad that he just can't let go of the desire to wrestle, because he was guaranteed a huge salary and pretty much a guaranteed job for life in WWE in a non-wrestling role and he just couldn't deal with not being in that ring anymore. Scott Hall mentions something similar in that recent current affairs spot on him - that addiction to being in the ring and the absolute center of attention is just too much for some people to deny.
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Dec 12, 2011 22:33
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:I never learned Elix wasn't a CFL player until Lance's shoot from early 2011. It was still real to me, dammit. 
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Dec 12, 2011 22:33
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Can anyone break down a history of the nWo? The more detailed the better (members coming and going). I remember the third man angle, I remember the wolf pack and I remember nWo and nWo b-team. I just can't remember how it ended. Then I think it came back for a little big. And I don't know how that one ended either. It's like a book I never finished.
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Dec 13, 2011 00:34
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Just watch these: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3454508
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Dec 13, 2011 00:37
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Spikeguy posted:I just can't remember how it ended. It didn't. At one point nWo people stopped showing up on the shows as nWo people, then they'd get back together only to disappear again, then it all started up in WWF as well. Finally the nWo ended with an announcement from Vince McMahon that they were now done and that was that. There were a couple of points that could have been perfect for the nWo to end (or to tear itself apart through petty jealousies and the lack of a unifying factor), such as Starrcade 97, or the Hogan/Goldberg match. But it just kept on going and going and going.
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Dec 13, 2011 00:41
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Jerusalem posted:It didn't. At one point nWo people stopped showing up on the shows as nWo people, then they'd get back together only to disappear again, then it all started up in WWF as well. Finally the nWo ended with an announcement from Vince McMahon that they were now done and that was that. What happened between the red/black/white nWo following the Finger poke of doom and the one with Bret Hart and Jeff Jerrett in it? The commentators acted as if it was this big reunion. I never understood how we got from the inclusion of the wolf pack to the silver and black.
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Dec 13, 2011 00:52
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Jerusalem posted:There were a couple of points that could have been perfect for the nWo to end (or to tear itself apart through petty jealousies and the lack of a unifying factor), such as Starrcade 97, or the Hogan/Goldberg match. But it just kept on going and going and going. It should have ended with a ten man War Games where someone from the nWo actually turns on the nWo like Bret Hart. Unfortunately, the stupid Wolfpac stable made things confusing. Also, it's not entirely detailed but here's a start Spikeguy: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/n/nwo-original.php
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Dec 13, 2011 01:15
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Jerusalem posted:It didn't. At one point nWo people stopped showing up on the shows as nWo people, then they'd get back together only to disappear again, then it all started up in WWF as well. Finally the nWo ended with an announcement from Vince McMahon that they were now done and that was that. Adding to the WWF nWo, it was pretty much gutted after Hall got fired and Nash got injured in mid-2002. It hobbled along under Vince pretty much said "yeah, nWo is disbanded...moving on" one week on RAW. Edit: Invasion angles are kind of notorious in wrestling for begin REALLY hot and successful at first and looking very hard to screw up. Then they just keep going and going with no real idea how to conclude or end it before it ends with a whimper with no one noticing or caring. As bad as the 2001 Invasion angle was, at least the WWF concluded the thing at Survivor Series 2001 both publicly and firmly. Compare this to the Nexus angle where it just kind of kept going with guys getting kicked out or leaving eventually becoming a tag team last summer. Then it just kind of stopped and nobody noticed. Justin Godscock fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 13, 2011 |
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Dec 13, 2011 02:07
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Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:Adding to the WWF nWo, it was pretty much gutted after Hall got fired and Nash got injured in mid-2002. It hobbled along under Vince pretty much said "yeah, nWo is disbanded...moving on" one week on RAW. What was a well executed Invasion storyline with a good finish? Was even the UWF Japan invasion good or did that wear out its welcome as well?
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Dec 13, 2011 02:57
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Lone Rogue posted:What was a well executed Invasion storyline with a good finish? The end of 2010 is the finish. It just took another year to fully wind down.
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Dec 13, 2011 05:02
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:The BDK wasn't a true invasion but Chikara booked them well for a year. But still, people looked tremendous through the end of it all. Tursas and Donst have improved so much since the start, and Jakob is a pretty entertaining rookie. It isn't like Quackenbush, Kingston, and Jigsaw just barreled through the faction and buried everyone like you would have expected in most other promotions. Lince Dorado was entertaining to me for the first time when joining the BDK, and Pinkie Sanchez was putting on possibly the best stuff in the indies that year. I think the BDK helped everyone but possibly Daizee Haze. Most other invasions don't help hardly anyone. e: It didn't help Jigsaw. Nothing can help Jigsaw, not even Manami Toyota. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 13, 2011 |
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Dec 13, 2011 05:51
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Donst has been reaching almost Kingston-level promos lately. It's amazing he can put so much energy and effort into those pre-match bits, but suck so consistently on commentary.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:02
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I don't know how good the actual "invasion" itself was, but didn't the CZW*/ROH "War" have the end result of getting Steen and Generico into ROH? If so I consider that a huge success. * I don't even know if it was CZW or some other terrible indy.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:12
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Pretty sure Steen and Generico weren't really in that feud at all though I could be wrong. End result would be more Hero and Castagnoli? edit: this is not the indy thread 
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Dec 13, 2011 06:15
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HulkaMatt posted:Pretty sure Steen and Generico weren't really in that feud at all though I could be wrong. End result would be more Hero and Castagnoli? I stand corrected, but my point stands - they got the good stuff out of the wreckage of that horrible marriage.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:18
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Lone Rogue posted:WCW hit other parts of New York. Also, I think WCW and WWF had different deals with different arenas. I don't recall the WWF hitting up the Palace of Auburn Hills much, just as I don't recall WCW using Joe Louis Arena much. You're right. Traditionally, the WWF/WWE has always gone to the Joe Louis Arena, and the WCW went to the Palace of Auburn Hills. Even when Wrestlemania 23 came to Detroit and Ford Field, Olympia Entertainment (the parent company of the Red Wings, Tigers, and JLA) had a hand in promoting it. The only exceptions to this rule were Summerslam 1992, which took place at the Palace, and a Halloween Havoc that was best known for Hulk Hogan and the Giant having a monster truck match on the roof of Cobo Hall (as the rest of the card was next door in Joe Louis Arena).
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Dec 13, 2011 06:37
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Jerusalem posted:I stand corrected, but my point stands - they got the good stuff out of the wreckage of that horrible marriage. The wreckage of a horrible marriage? The ROH/CZW feud was incredible, and is probably the best inter-company war storyline ever. Granted, CZW didn't really do jack poo poo on their part, but that feud was one half of the reason why 2006 was ROH's best year ever (other half is Danielson title reign). But yeah, that's probably the best answer to well executed invasion storyline with a great ending.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:53
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AsInHowe posted:The only exceptions to this rule were Summerslam 1992, which took place at the Palace, and a Halloween Havoc that was best known for Hulk Hogan and the Giant having a monster truck match on the roof of Cobo Hall (as the rest of the card was next door in Joe Louis Arena). SummerSlam 1992 took place in Wembley Stadium in London.
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Dec 13, 2011 06:56
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Rusty Shackelford posted:SummerSlam 1992 took place in Wembley Stadium in London. He meant 93.
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Dec 13, 2011 07:04
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I wasn't actively watching then, it all blends together.
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Dec 13, 2011 08:10
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did WCW ever do Madison Square Garden?
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Dec 13, 2011 20:23
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coconono posted:did WCW ever do Madison Square Garden? No, they tried to book it once but Vince put the kibosh on it.
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Dec 13, 2011 20:29
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Once WCW died, Vince even did an angle about how MSG was WWF territory, always had been and always would be, so they could then run an angle where Shane's "WCW" could invade the hallowed ground.
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Dec 13, 2011 22:16
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Flameingblack posted:I think the BDK helped everyone but possibly Daizee Haze. I think it may have helped Sara most of all. By the time the angle was finally winding down in its second year leading up to the conclusion of the twelve large summit at the iPPV, Sara was booked as a legitimate contender for the title and it was over with the fans. I would be fine with Sara going over anyone in Chikara and I don't know if I could have said that two or more years ago.
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Dec 13, 2011 22:21
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Jerusalem posted:Once WCW died, Vince even did an angle about how MSG was WWF territory, always had been and always would be, so they could then run an angle where Shane's "WCW" could invade the hallowed ground. Man, that episode... No episode of WWF/E programming has ever made me cycle through so many emotions of happiness and anger, completing in me losing all faith in the company that day.
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Dec 13, 2011 22:21
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Jerusalem posted:Once WCW died, Vince even did an angle about how MSG was WWF territory, always had been and always would be, so they could then run an angle where Shane's "WCW" could invade the hallowed ground. And right away, we see how making Shane the leader of WCW was dumb. MSG isn't "sacred WWF territory" so much as it's "sacred McMahon territory." Vince's grandfather Jess was running boxing events out of MSG when it was a different structure in a different location, and the family relationship with that venue is practically an heirloom. Running Shane McMahon's WCW out of MSG would have just seemed weirder to WCW than it was to MSG. Instead, they basically pissed on the WCW name even harder; which is pretty amazing considering we all considered it dead and buried by it's original caretakers when it arrived.
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Dec 14, 2011 10:44
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it still amazes me that within two years of the Invasion, WWE had Flair, Steiner, Goldberg, Bischoff, and the NWO on their books, and had already managed to blow their wad on the invasion angle to the point where it simply couldn't be salvaged. Sod trying to find a way to book the Invasion better, I'm trying like hell to think of a way to book the Invasion worse.
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Dec 15, 2011 13:13
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Lamuella posted:Sod trying to find a way to book the Invasion better, I'm trying like hell to think of a way to book the Invasion worse. Replace Shane with David Flair and start a romance angle between David and Stephanie.
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Dec 15, 2011 14:57
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Lamuella posted:Sod trying to find a way to book the Invasion better, I'm trying like hell to think of a way to book the Invasion worse. The invasion force consists of Kweewee, Disco Inferno, Reno, David Flair, Hail, Prince Ikeaua, Nasty Brian Knobbs, Jerry Flynn, Ron and Don Harris and Shark Boy.
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Dec 15, 2011 15:24
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I wonder how things would have went if they just held off on the Invasion for a couple years until they were ready to bring in all the big stars. I think it would have still done well, it's not like people immediately forgot about WCW when it died. For all we poo poo on it, didn't the actual Invasion PPV do really well?
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Dec 15, 2011 15:24
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If they just held off a few months, and had Flair in Austin's spot, and Austin in Angle's spot, it would have been lightyears better.
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Dec 15, 2011 15:27
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I wonder what kept them from using Bischoff as the leader of the Invasion. Maybe his pride just couldn't take working for Vince? Maybe Vince didn't want him right then?
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Dec 15, 2011 15:29
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I THINK it was the highest non-WrestleMania PPV they've ever had.
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Dec 15, 2011 15:30
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I stopped watching wrestling for about a year and a half-two years, and I missed the Invasion. People keep telling me it's terrible, but I just don't want to believe.
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Dec 15, 2011 15:31
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If you can forget what COULD have been, the Invasion was a pretty fun time. Lots of new stars, new matchups, it's certainly better than what we have now.
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Dec 15, 2011 15:33
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