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If they are making his assists bad no matter what then they should just get rid of bad evidence, poo poo is dumb.
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Dec 15, 2011 06:51
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Haha this is great, nerf the only thing he has going for him when he's already easy as hell to beat.
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Dec 15, 2011 06:53
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Wright really does suck but its a bummer they're nerfing him more.
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Dec 15, 2011 06:54
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Well, remember that Jill got nerfed because ???. Hopefully they'll do something to make Nick better normally if they're taking out those invincible assists, but then they ignore Hsien Ko so I don't have much hope. Though I guess it's also possible that they'll just give it some tiny amount of vulnerability on startup or something.
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Dec 15, 2011 06:58
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Dr. Spiderman posted:Haha this is great, nerf the only thing he has going for him when he's already easy as hell to beat. Uhhh everything he has in Turnabout mode is really good. Having a braindead, stupid assist only serves to make the game worse overall.
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Dec 15, 2011 06:59
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Obviously in exchange they're going to give him a gun. A gun that fires adventure game bullets and kills people in one shot.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:00
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Jmcrofts posted:This is for the best. I'd rather have a bad character all-around than a bad character with a retardedly good gimmick assist. Hsien-Ko is so happy to hear Wright is getting nerfed.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:00
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For all the work you gotta put in it's not even 100% invincible, you can hit him in the back. Besides was marvel 2 ruined by stuff like psylocke or capcom or ken? Not only where those characters not completely rear end but assists were a lot more abusable in that game. There's also the issue that capcom decided that instead of - not patching the game in the first month again - giving wright or someone else some juice - weakening wesker like they did sentinel because everyone cries about him it seems like they're just going to remove one of the few reasons to bother with wright and make him even less used then he already is, why would you be okay with that? darealkooky fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 07:06
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darealkooky posted:Besides was marvel 2 ruined by stuff like psylocke or capcom or ken? You can punish those assists on block.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:08
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I'm glad he's nerfed.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:08
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Jmcrofts posted:You can punish those assists on block. You could punish Haggar and Tron on block as well but everyone was happy to see those nerfs.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:12
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Orange Crush Rush posted:You could punish Haggar and Tron on block as well but everyone was happy to see those nerfs. If you can punish Tron on block I'd love to see it. I'm fairly positive you can only punish it if you make it whiff altogether.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:14
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Jmcrofts posted:You can punish those assists on block. they also didn't take what amounts to luck and incredibly specific setups to get
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Dec 15, 2011 07:16
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That's just dirty. They may as well snatch 200k from his hp, just to be even bigger dicks.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:18
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As a fan of the character but not a player of the character in this game, I can only hope they tweak some other things to make PW still be desirable to use in some way. I'm not really sure where they'd start, though.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:30
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:As a fan of the character but not a player of the character in this game, I can only hope they tweak some other things to make PW still be desirable to use in some way. I'm not really sure where they'd start, though. Let him do the dog assist on point.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:33
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:As a fan of the character but not a player of the character in this game, I can only hope they tweak some other things to make PW still be desirable to use in some way. I'm not really sure where they'd start, though. Someone mentioned it before, but less bad evidence/chance of bad evidence would be really helpful. The ability to throw bad evidence while jumping would also be nice, and maybe have Maya shield cover more area, although his biggest issue is teleporters, and I'm not sure how they can help him deal with them. Jmcrofts posted:Let him do the dog assist on point. I'm still not sure what what that does. 
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Dec 15, 2011 07:35
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Honestly I don't think his assist is THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM, though I do play him and that might bias my input in some manner :V if they DO do this horrible thing, I'd take to it better if in exchange they made his non-turnabout modes not quite as intentionally bad. The thing is, his assist is good, but removing it would actually cripple a lot of reasons to play him. Sure you'd get to turnabout, then have giant normals with huge damage output, and be able to do the Ace Attorney, but after that ends, what happens? Gather more evidence? Hit with an objection? Again?? The reason I tag out after getting turnabout isn't entirely because of the assist, but also because I want to hold off as long as possible on bringing him out. If I have to end turnabout at all, I want it to be with the end of the game, too.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:36
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:As a fan of the character but not a player of the character in this game, I can only hope they tweak some other things to make PW still be desirable to use in some way. I'm not really sure where they'd start, though. Get rid of bad evidence and and have his normals recover in a reasonable amount of time. I mean sure have a cr.L that's active for like 10 frames sounds great, until you whiff it and you are stuck there for a good half second.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:38
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Give Maya Shield an active hitbox that doesn't degrade it's blocking power.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:39
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AlphaTM posted:Honestly I don't think his assist is THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM, though I do play him and that might bias my input in some manner :V The assist isn't a problem in a balance sense, since it's pretty likely you're gonna die before you can even get in turnabout mode to set it up. It's definitely a problem in a game design sense since if you get the assist, it makes the rest of the match really stupid unfun and lame.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:44
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wesker glasses
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Dec 15, 2011 07:58
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Well if Wright doesn't get to turnabout, the match is really lame and unfun for him. so it's almost like he turns the situation on its head. But yeah, okay, I see what you mean. That doesn't mean they can just remove the invincibility and call it a day though! That would be intentionally making an already bad character worse. And that would just be SILLY
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Dec 15, 2011 07:59
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Sounds to me like Phoenix Wright is unfun and lame all around! edit: I'm not saying this in a "hurr phoenix shouldn't have been in" sense, but rather in a "how the gently caress did this make it past the design/playtesting stages" sense Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 08:01
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Broken Loose posted:Sounds to me like Phoenix Wright is unfun and lame all around! But dude, didn't you ever play his games? Those were fun. That means he's the most important character to make good.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:03
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Someone get Justin Wong into the Ace Attorney games STAT
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Dec 15, 2011 08:06
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Countblanc posted:But dude, didn't you ever play his games? Those were fun. That means he's the most important character to make good. It's not that I want Wright to be the best character in the game (well actually I do), but I'd rather he not be as completely bad as he is now. Maybe give him more mobility options or cut down recovery on his moves or something.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:08
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AlphaTM posted:Well if Wright doesn't get to turnabout, the match is really lame and unfun for him. You can choose to not play phoenix wright. Your opponent can't chose not to fight against him.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:10
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chumbler posted:You and me both. I think Chun is the only character that absolutely no high level player has put any time into. Early MvC3 had everyone and their mom using Chun for legs assist. She was the very first OMG GOD TIER Marvel 3 character. The novelty wore off before the game was even released.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:11
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Jmcrofts posted:You can choose to not play phoenix wright. Your opponent can't chose not to fight against him. You can't choose to not fight Wesker or Dark Phoenix or any level 3 X-factor character either! But people learned ways around that, precautions and strategies to cut those things off, which is something people should probably do with Wright as well.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:13
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AlphaTM posted:You can't choose to not fight Wesker or Dark Phoenix or any level 3 X-factor character either! But people learned ways around that, precautions and strategies to cut those things off, which is something people should probably do with Wright as well. I would have been okay with Dark Phoenix getting nerfed, just like I'm ok with turnabout press the witness getting nerfed. People found ways to try to deal with Jean, but at the end of vanilla MvC3's lifespan she was still the best character by far and she still made the game significantly worse. Jury's still out (haha) on wesker.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:16
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We don't even know how the assist will be tweaked yet. Maybe instead of being 100% invincible the whole time, it'll only be invincible during the actual walking animation or invincible up to the point where he stops walking or etc etc, so you've got a small window to punish him like practically every other assist in the game.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:20
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I just don't see any reason to nerf that. I mean, as of now no one's getting results with Wright, since it's really hard to get him to Turnabout and unlike Phoenix his Light version is actually pretty bad. It's way more interesting and less dumb than Dark Phoenix or XF3 Wesker, that's for sure.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:22
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But Wright isn't exactly nearly as bad as Jean. He has to work significantly harder in order to get to his super-duper power up mode, and even then it's on a timer. He has a lot more health, but with the way people usually played Jean the health thing wasn't that big of an issue. Wright has to be on point and leave himself vulnerable to be able to get into turnabout, and then he has to go and connect with a pretty slow move. I DID just compare wright to jean, but mostly in how people perceived them, and it seems people who have problems with Wright usually look at him the same way they'd look at Jean, while he really isn't like that! I get what you mean with Wright being a gigantic stop sign in any offense your opponent'd want to mount, but I don't really think it's a gigantic issue.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:24
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Dias posted:I just don't see any reason to nerf that. I mean, as of now no one's getting results with Wright, since it's really hard to get him to Turnabout and unlike Phoenix his Light version is actually pretty bad. It's way more interesting and less dumb than Dark Phoenix or XF3 Wesker, that's for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a principles thing to be honest and not really about Wright himself. Gustaff Fire got nerfed(and so did Lariat, I think?) and nerfing Press the Witness next makes it seem like the design team aren't big fans of invincible/nearly-invincible assists as a way to get pressure off you easily. Of course, this raises the question as to why Press the Witness got into the game 100% invincible in the first place.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:28
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Yes, it is mostly a principle thing I would assume. Having an assist that is fully invincible, can easily be comboed off, and carries 0 risk in calling is not good design. Whether P Wright is a good character is irrelevant, the game is worse with the assist in it. A basic tenet of fighting game design is that every move should have a downside, and it seems like Capcom hasn't really figured that out as of late. E: VV they didn't nerf hsien ko assist, but hers isn't nearly as dumb. For one thing, her assist can actually take damage. Jmcrofts fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 08:33
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Brother Entropy posted:It wouldn't surprise me if it was a principles thing to be honest and not really about Wright himself. Gustaff Fire got nerfed(and so did Lariat, I think?) and nerfing Press the Witness next makes it seem like the design team aren't big fans of invincible/nearly-invincible assists as a way to get pressure off you easily. Well, there's still Hsien-Ko, or did they nerf her assist too?
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Dec 15, 2011 08:34
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why do we get such bad karma on nerfs? Capcom always seems to plink unnecessary nerfs on characters that are rarely used and makes them far worse yet the obvious ones get away with murdeer :argh;
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Dec 15, 2011 08:36
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Dias posted:Well, there's still Hsien-Ko, or did they nerf her assist too? She's not invincible at any point in her assist, she just has hyper armor. You hit her at any point while she's out, she bleeds hard.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:36
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Dias posted:I just don't see any reason to nerf that. I mean, as of now no one's getting results with Wright, since it's really hard to get him to Turnabout and unlike Phoenix his Light version is actually pretty bad. It's way more interesting and less dumb than Dark Phoenix or XF3 Wesker, that's for sure. in what ways is it Less Interesting and Less Dumb?
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Dec 15, 2011 08:36
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