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AzraelNewtype posted:Speaking of which, both movies have finally be attached to BD video sources, and they look glorious. I just grabbed the series and it's awesome. Gotta grab thems movies soon.
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Nov 22, 2011 20:54
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Zorak posted:Sins of a Solar Empire is pretty LOGH-ish and solid. Pretty LoGH-ish, you say. Yeah, Sins of a Solar Empire is probably your best bet for a game.
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Nov 22, 2011 22:17
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I've burnt my way towards the end of the series and just got onto Reinhard's night of passion. I can't get over how this show treats the female characters. They're entire purpose is to swoon over the male characters, and it's like once romance starts happening they get any strength sucked out of them. I'd just like one or two of the female characters to have a bit of personality. I assumed Hilda was a strong person and wouldn't turn to jelly after a bit of sex, and would atleast be capable of facing him rather than being ashamed. It's already obvious that Katerose is going to fall for Julian, and I've not seen any other purpose to her character beyond a love interest. Damnit, now I'm remembering the controlling your man through the kitchen speech earlier on. I shouldn't be surprised as it is 90's anime but still. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 00:22
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Most of the men have girlfriends too. The show is based around military people, the small proportion of women could simply be called realism. Also Jessica, Hilda, Karin, and Frederica are all strong people. The fact that some of them act subserviently to certain people is relevant, but hell Frederica is far far less subservient to Yang than Kircheis was to Reinhard, so calling it a gender thing may be unfair to the show. And do you really not see the point behind Katerose? Hint: who else is she important to plot-wise besides Julian? That's probably got something to do with her subplot!
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Dec 10, 2011 00:32
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I've not actually seen that subplot go anywhere so far. It might get developed further but I don't know yet. I don't think it's unfair to the show pointing this stuff out. I understand there's a cultural divide but I think you'd have to be purposely ignoring it to not pick up on the sexism. I'm not saying the show is crap because of it but I think it's a low point in an otherwise brilliant series. edit - Don't get me wrong. I know the reasons for it and I wasn't expecting anything else. I just vaguely had hope that not all the female characters would be love interests, I suppose I can atleast be thankful that we won't get Frederica getting cooking advice again. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 00:47
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NoneSuch posted:I've burnt my way towards the end of the series and just got onto Reinhard's night of passion. I can't get over how this show treats the female characters. They're entire purpose is to swoon over the male characters, and it's like once romance starts happening they get any strength sucked out of them. 80s anime based on even earlier book series. Lets not forget he's the goddamn emperor, and also she managed to sleep with her boss, which is awkward for anyone in the morning. And frankly there hasn't been all that much swooning. Aside from Reinhard's sister.
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Dec 10, 2011 00:48
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All the women we've seen so far are intelligent and strong but there's no doubt that it's a male dominated society in terms of the military and matters of state. In terms of commerce and politics though, women are definately on the same footing as men. We see Hilda in charge of her house, dukes and barons serving the Kaiser's Concubines and female politicans on the Free Republic Council. For Hilda it's understandable that she would feel shame. She feels she essentially coerced/was coerced into having sex by the most powerful man in the universe. It's true that they have feelings for each other but both Reinhard and Hilda have no experience in terms of relationships and are both emotionally like teenagers. I don't see women being weak at all as,(End of series spoiler)in the conclusion, we're told that Hilda ends up being one of the most powerful and most beneficial forces for the empire and Frederica becomes the head of the council.
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Dec 10, 2011 01:00
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DamnGlitch posted:80s anime based on even earlier book series. The novels were all written in the 80s, the main series was 1988 to 1997. Calling it 90s isn't particularly inaccurate.
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Dec 10, 2011 01:05
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I've probably been a bit hasty just after Reuntal potentially raping a women and a bunch of other things it's started to stack up. Characters being dicks and universe explanations only go so far.AzraelNewtype posted:The novels were all written in the 80s, the main series was 1988 to 1997. Calling it 90s isn't particularly inaccurate. The majority of the anime series was done in the 90s. I'm not actually atall sure how strictly it's based on the books/manga but I don't think it excuses it. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 01:08
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NoneSuch posted:I've probably been a bit hasty just after Reuntal potentially raping a women and a bunch of other things it's started to stack up. Characters being dicks and universe explanations only go so far. That wasn't what happened, though he acts like he was because he hates himself a lot (hence why Mittermeyer says he's being retarded and Reunthal is like "yeah, basically"). Soooo much self loathing. They make it pretty clear that they just hatefucked. And continue hatefucking.
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Dec 10, 2011 02:51
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I came here to kill you... but goddamn you're the prettiest man I have ever seen in my life.
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Dec 10, 2011 04:00
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As for the part about gender roles. Would this series be behind the time if it were made today? Probably. However, some of the stuff is is better with context. For instance, when Yang and Frederica are in a domestic situation, and she's in the role of a subservient houswife, it's pretty clear that both characters are uncomfortable with this arrangement. Hell, Frederica is evenmore proactive than Yang during this stretch at planning an eventual open rebellion. So this series is definitely ahead of its time at the very least.
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Dec 11, 2011 03:34
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The prequels about Reinhard and Kircheis are really weird because they act like a married couple and Reinhard is the wife. His body language screams it and it seems like every chance they got they drew him in a submissive way when it comes to Kircheis. The main series doesn't treat him that way so much but in the prequels, anyway, it looks to me like him and Kircheis and Annerose are supposed to become a happy family and Sigfried is the Daddy. Frederica and Hilda are depressingly similar characters, though, imo. They act a little differently because of who they are cast against, since Reinhard needs someone to not support him and Yang needs someone explicitly to support him, but they seem like the same person. They even look the same. The female representation is awful weak but I kinda like Dominique San Piel because she's such a weird loving character - she is like an ageless watcher there to witness Rubinsky crack up. She doesn't age or change a bit in the whole series, and if she didn't interact with Rupert you might suspect she was a ghost or something.
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Dec 11, 2011 05:05
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Just finished the show, and loved it. Now my friend and I are deciding whether or not we should watch each of the prequels/OVAs/whatever. Could someone tell me which of these are worth watching? I know it's probably been discussed in this (very long) thread, but a quick rundown would be appreciated.  (Optional Prequels) Gaiden 1 - 4 Episodes Gaiden 2 - 4 Episodes Gaiden 3 - 4 Episodes Gaiden 4 - 12 Episodes Spiral Labyrinth - 14 Episodes Mutineer - 4 Episodes The Duelist - 4 Episodes Retriever - 4 Episodes Thank you!
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Dec 14, 2011 15:26
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Aside from the prequel movie, I was pretty not into the prequel stuff The duelist and mutineer were both pretty boring imo, and kinda creepy imo. I didn't see any with yang though so ymmv Honestly though I might try again; CA had them organized so loving poorly I was having a hell of a time figuring out where to start and from you list it looks like I just picked them at random.
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Dec 14, 2011 15:44
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That list (from the OP) was titled that way because that was how CA labelled everything. Technically the first four Gaidens are "Gaiden series 1", and everything after that was "Gaiden series 2" but CA switched to labeling everything by their arc name (taken from the episode titles). Anyway, I liked all of the Gaidens, though the longer ones I enjoyed more overall because there seemed to be more of a typical LOGH build up and pay off. As opposed to the others which are really just short stories of seemingly random events. Actually it looks like there are no direct downloads in the OP for the Gaiden series 2 episodes, I'll have to try to track those down when I get home.
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Dec 14, 2011 15:53
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Definitely watch the first Gaiden imo. Reinhard and Kircheis get to play around with a tank and it has the best production values I've seen so far (I'm up to Gaiden 4).
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Dec 14, 2011 18:59
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I can understand the gender roles in the Empire, but that there's not a single female Admiral in the FPA seems a bit weird (yeah, there's a couple of council women around for awhile, but that's not much). It's hundreds of years into the future in a society that's all about equality and freedom etc, so not including a single woman as an admiral just reeks writer/Japanese cultural bias.
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Dec 15, 2011 07:47
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Chinook posted:Just finished the show, and loved it. Now my friend and I are deciding whether or not we should watch each of the prequels/OVAs/whatever. Could someone tell me which of these are worth watching? I know it's probably been discussed in this (very long) thread, but a quick rundown would be appreciated. Yea CA's naming conventions are a bit of a cluster with the gaidens. I'll try and break it down as clearly as possible. And while I've only seen the first half of the first season of prequels, I think they're worth watching. The main series is undoubtedly better, but it's also cool to see a little bit more of your favorite characters after season 4 ends. Season One is about Reinhard and Kircheis before we meet them, mostly them running around kicking rear end in military school: Gaiden 1 is Valley of White Silver, episodes G1.01-G1.04 Gaiden 2 is Morning's Dream, Night's Song, episodes G1.05-G1.08 Gaiden 3 is Disgrace, episodes G1.09-G1.12 Gaiden 4 is A Hundred Billion Stars, A Hundred Billion Lights, episodes G1.13-G1.24 Season Two is the same deal but for Yang. I haven't watched it yet but I think this is where we get the full story of his Hero of El Facil thing that is referenced so much in the main story: Spiral Labyrinth, episodes G2.01-G2.14 Those Who Revolt (Mutineer), episodes G2.15-G2.18 The Duelist, episodes G2.19-G2.22 Survivors (Retriever), episodes G2.23-G2.26 Third Tiamat Battle, episodes G2.27-G2.28 And that plus the 3 movies are all the LoGH there is! If you haven't watched Overture to a New Battle I highly recommend it. The first 2 episodes are a jumbled rushed mess in comparison. My Conquest is the Sea of Stars isn't quite as interesting but it gives you the story of Yang and Reinhard's first encounter, a battle that is referenced several times during this, their second encounter. Rakugoon posted:Definitely watch the first Gaiden imo. Reinhard and Kircheis get to play around with a tank and it has the best production values I've seen so far (I'm up to Gaiden 4). I liked Disgrace, where they get to Sherlock it up with a murder mystery.
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Dec 15, 2011 08:11
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Pimpmust posted:I can understand the gender roles in the Empire, but that there's not a single female Admiral in the FPA seems a bit weird (yeah, there's a couple of council women around for awhile, but that's not much). It's hundreds of years into the future in a society that's all about equality and freedom etc, so not including a single woman as an admiral just reeks writer/Japanese cultural bias. Maybe most women just prefer being schoolteachers, mistresses and coffee-servers. 
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Dec 15, 2011 15:24
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Pimpmust posted:I can understand the gender roles in the Empire, but that there's not a single female Admiral in the FPA seems a bit weird (yeah, there's a couple of council women around for awhile, but that's not much). It's hundreds of years into the future in a society that's all about equality and freedom etc, so not including a single woman as an admiral just reeks writer/Japanese cultural bias. Well, look at our own military. How many female officers do you see in high command? It's discriminatory policy due to women being denied frontline duty, but it's the same sort of thing. Democratic nations are not unbiased ones, unfortunately. Just another flaw for the FPA.
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Dec 15, 2011 19:30
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Zorak posted:Well, look at our own military. How many female officers do you see in high command? It's discriminatory policy due to women being denied frontline duty, but it's the same sort of thing. Democratic nations are not unbiased ones, unfortunately. Just another flaw for the FPA. The US is a pretty poor choice to compare to because at least they got people like this: http://www.army.mil/article/11194/dunwoody-confirmed-as-first-female-four-star/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Mae_Hays Which is more than the FPA can claim. Beat by the US ca 1970  Not exactly frontline, but 5% of the General ranks is better than one token "adjutant". Sausage-fest is just the given state of things as far as the story/characters goes (Haman Khan notwithstanding). I just don't think the writer thought about it at all. Which is kinda dumb considering manpower shortages and a couple of hundred years of war, and with the serious mismatch in manpower between the FPA and the Empire even a half-assed democracy would pull out the stops. That and how religion is portrayed/used is the weakest part of LoGH for me really. Space Opera/Japanese culture at the time/historical cribbing of the ca 18th century > Sci-Fi mindset of the writer. Hope I'm not coming across as too  for thinking this.
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Dec 15, 2011 20:21
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Pimpmust posted:The US is a pretty poor choice to compare to because at least they got people like this: Nurse corps and material command. It doesn't loving even count. We don't see Nurse-whatevers/ Supply Movers for FPA OR the Empire in the series, for all you know it's all female command as well. Doesn't equate to a military command role, which was the entire objection.
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Dec 15, 2011 20:25
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Zorak posted:Nurse corps and material command. It doesn't loving even count. We don't see Nurse-whatevers/ Supply Movers for FPA OR the Empire in the series, for all you know it's all female command as well. Doesn't equate to a military command role, which was the entire objection. Material Command doesn't count in LoGH? That's just cold man If that's not combat-centric enough, how about : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_W._Tyson or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Loewer Yeah, there's not a shitload of them even in the modern US navy but that's not really the point I was making.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:55
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Pimpmust posted:If that's not combat-centric enough, how about : And they're only in ship command. Ship commanders are dime a dozen in LOGH  Only the first one there actually headed a combat ship, Loewer did supply. Our Navy views women as combat "risks". Which is hosed up but alas!!quote:Material Command doesn't count in LoGH? That's just cold man Given that he was shamed into that position basically, and persisted in the series mostly because he was "a bro", kinda!
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Dec 15, 2011 23:12
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Yeah well, the US navy does not have hundred thousands of ships so admirals commanding entire battlefleets aren't that common here either. That's not the point either, LoGH isn't dependant on how today's navies do this but I can only compare what's *shown* on screen, and there LoGH comes up short even compared with today. The Yang fleet spends an awful lot of time bothering with logistics and IntOps when you think about it. Cazellnu practically ran that poo poo from his basement. Going "well, maybe they have a thousand female admirals just sitting around drinking tea in the rear and they are never shown!!" is a pretty poor argument, considering just what a shitload of named characters LoGH got and it's not like all of them are super important. The writer would have to go out of his way to have this few women in the story (and face it, it's not exactly crawling with them even if you count civilians). And then we got Louis Mashengo, the one (?) black dude in space. Of course you can come up with some half-assed excuse (all the black men were thrown in big ovens by the Goldenbaums! Louis is actually only wearing blackface!) But not even hollywood is this bad with their tokenism. I just find it interesting analyzing the writing and trying to spot where the writer's cultural influences creep in (conciously or not). Like, if this was an american story the FPA would most likely be shown in such a bad light even when making the exact same points LoGH is doing (I mean, a democracy AND the rebels? ) and the ending would surely be different even if the FPA were shown to be run by the most corrupt fucks to have crawled out of US politics. That's just natural depending on where the writer comes from. How the genders are portrayed and used in the story is no different. Lot's of  from me for a point that's already been made, but hey. I am a no life king of 
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Dec 16, 2011 06:54
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Pimpmust posted:And then we got Louis Mashengo, the one (?) black dude in space. Admiral Sidney Sitolet TWO CAN PLAY THIS GAME
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Dec 16, 2011 07:12
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Sitolet got a very heavy tan, that's all  (Forgot all about him)Oh, I don't know if I missed this but Rear Admiral Nora W. Tyson commands a whole carrier strike group of some eleven ships, including the USS George H.W Bush. Your move, mister
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Dec 16, 2011 07:32
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Legend of Galactic Heroes is one of the most loving awesome stories I've ever experienced. I can't overstate my love for it. It's really loving lovely when it comes to gender and race. These things can both be true. You don't need to apologize for and sweep away its obvious shortcomings just because you love it. I understand the compulsion to apologize for it all too well, but the FPA is supposed to be a depiction of a liberal egalitarian society, in contrast to the conservative hierarchical Empire... the fact that there are so few women and so many white people is a result of the author's cultural baggage and actively hurts the strength of the setting. You could explain away the race thing in large part by saying the racial diversity is being representative of America, and not humanity, as the FPA is clearly analogous to America just as much as the Empire is analogous to Prussia... This would explain why there are so few Asians, but even then you're really short on Africans and Hispanics. There's really no explaining away the gender thing. That's just unfortunate cultural baggage. Pimpmust posted:I just find it interesting analyzing the writing and trying to spot where the writer's cultural influences creep in (conciously or not). Like, if this was an american story the FPA would most likely be shown in such a bad light even when making the exact same points LoGH is doing (I mean, a democracy AND the rebels? Perhaps one of the most interesting things about LoGH is that, while it's full of morals, it's not afraid to buck convention. In fact it kind of revels in it sometimes (cf. Yang's almost random totally not noble or incredible death). Even if it were from another cultural context that more valued democracy, if it ended with "Rah rah Democracy! Isn't our system great?" it would be fundamentally different from what it is. And I say this as just about the biggest democracy/FPA fan there can be. I guess you could say one of the things about LoGH I love is that it has 'my side' lose, rather than indulgently patting me on the head and telling me everything will ultimately go my way.
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Dec 16, 2011 07:57
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Eiba posted:I understand the compulsion to apologize for it all too well, but the FPA is supposed to be a depiction of a liberal egalitarian society, in contrast to the conservative hierarchical Empire... the fact that there are so few women and so many white people is a result of the author's cultural baggage and actively hurts the strength of the setting. Where did you get the idea that the FPA is supposed to be anything so positive? The strength of Yang's character comes from the fact that the FPA is an oppressive, corrupt shithole, but it's a democratic shithole so he prefers it to even the most benevolent dictatorship on principle. You know, even when government officials are sending goon squads to kill dissenters. That doesn't sound particularly liberal to me. This isn't just a matter of cultural baggage, you're not supposed to look on either side and see an ideal government. They're both flawed, because they're both human.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:11
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Just because FPA is a democracy either doesn't mean it's necessarily a government with positive race and gender roles. The very fact that the active draft is exclusively male kind of shows that they're not very progressive at all. Current day Japan and USA are both democractic, and they're SURE as hell not idealized in that way. It's entirely possible the FPA is just as sexist as, say, Japan's government in that regard, since after all it's not an ideal utopian society: it's the exact bloody opposite. It's the best of two evils in one character's mind, and that's it. Beyond that, I think it's safe to say the demographics of the FPA were in part modeled by the author after Japan's own, with some leeway made mentally for his views of the fictional future. That his mental notion doesn't match, say, the actual demographics of the world could be attributed to ignorance on his part, unstated in world "explanations", or simple issue with the team doing the anime failed to adequately "diversify" the ethnicity/ gender of the "little guys" running around. It's not like the author indicated the ethnicity and gender of each minor character running around, or even necessarily everyone in the "named" cast. Of the rather sizable named cast, we unfortunately only have two major black characters though, yes. There were some minor ones in FPA command whose names I either forget or were unnamed, but there really wasn't much gender diversity, no not at all. This could reflect that FPA is still prejudiced but gently caress if we know. As AzraelNewtype said, it's clearly supposed to be hosed up though.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:21
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AzraelNewtype posted:Where did you get the idea that the FPA is supposed to be anything so positive? The strength of Yang's character comes from the fact that the FPA is an oppressive, corrupt shithole, but it's a democratic shithole so he prefers it to even the most benevolent dictatorship on principle. You know, even when government officials are sending goon squads to kill dissenters. That doesn't sound particularly liberal to me. This isn't just a matter of cultural baggage, you're not supposed to look on either side and see an ideal government. They're both flawed, because they're both human. Yang's got a Chinese name. There's all sorts of names from all over the world in positions of power. You really don't think the FPA is supposed to have an unambiguously positive history? The Empire's deal is that Rudolph was a hugely racist genocidal, pretty unambiguously evil dick, and his personal love of historical German culture defines the entire empire for centuries. There's nothing good about that. That's an unambiguously horrible backstory. The FPA's deal is that they thought that was really lovely and left. There's nothing flawed about that. That's really unambiguously good backstory. The FPA's corruption is supposed to be the corruption that a liberal democracy often does succumb to. It's supposed to be the dark side of a good thing. If they were also explicitly racist and sexist, unless that were somehow a product of democracy (which it could be, but clearly isn't in the show), that would undercut that whole theme. Edit: There are... very few Japanese people in LoGH. I'm sure there might be one or two, but I can't actually think of any. So... I doubt the author based the racial demographics of the FPA on Japan, at least.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:25
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Eiba posted:You really don't think the FPA is supposed to have an unambiguously positive history? Did you watch the show?
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Dec 16, 2011 08:31
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AzraelNewtype posted:Did you watch the show? Did you read my post? The FPA is corrupt as hell... but it's history is ideal. It's foundation is pure. That's the whole loving point of the FPA. It's the right system (in Yang's estimation at least- and Yang's never explicitly called out for being wrong), but it's still really lovely because of people.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:38
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Eiba posted:You really don't think the FPA is supposed to have an unambiguously positive history? What? No. It's supposed to be hosed up and lovely like every democracy is. Do you think our democratic process is ideal? Japan's? Do you not think it's not a nepotistic corrupt nightmare? The thing is about all "ideal" governments is that ideal systems aren't humanly possible. They are inherently corruptible because humans are greedy assholes. You can only pursue an ideal to a Platonic end. The US government was day 1 full of corrupt people seeking to perpetuate slavery and their own greed as well. Democracy is good, but not because it's perfect: it's because it's the best we've got given humanity. The FPA's background is "good", but it's supposed to be a corrupt, terrible government. The entire male citizenry is drafted into an unsustainable, losing war, while the nepotistic elite coasts by un-invested (George W. Busy Syndrome). Protestors get the bloody KKK sent on them and beat to death with hammers. That's BAD. The empire under Reinhard meanwhile is, despite being a dictatorship, ultimately uncorrupt and EVERYONE is part of it, for better or worse. The economic policies are much more fair, sweeping changes to their system actually made it better with the general populace than it was in the FPA. People were happy under Reinhard, they weren't happy under the FPA government. But it's still a dictatorship. The whole crux of Yang Wenli's argument in LOGH was that a democracy, even a corrupt, lovely one, was preferable to a beneficial good tyrant ala Reinhard since ultimately the populace was to blame for their own complicity and state. They can make things better in the long term, they can make their leaders accountable. It's their lax action that lets the opposite happen. It's total faith in the populace that it'll eventually work net plus in the end. On the other hand, under Kaiser Reinhard, even if Reinhard is the most benevolent and brilliant leader ever, says nothing of the long term. There's absolutely no reason that Reinhard's son will be a good leader, or his son, or whatever. No one is accountable, everything is random and chaotic since one man shouldn't matter that much. That's why Yang was so utterly opposed to his own part in military interventionism, that his own strength as a strategist made such a difference, since to him it essentially vindicated both Reinhard and those that would manipulate democracy within the FPA. Reinhard believed that it didn't matter, since the history of man was ultimately chaos, and that those deserving of power, the smartest and most capable like he, would always seize it. Basically he had a notion that the Benevolent Tyrant would prevail, regardless of genetics, simply because it worked for him. No, FPA isn't supposed to be ideal or the good guys. God no. They're supposed to be hosed UP, but it's supposed to be the populace's fault. Because they're human. Zorak fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 08:39
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Dec 16, 2011 08:45
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Eiba posted:The FPA is corrupt as hell... but it's history is ideal. It's foundation is pure. That's the whole loving point of the FPA. It's the right system (in Yang's estimation at least- and Yang's never explicitly called out for being wrong), but it's still really lovely because of people. I agree with all of this, but how does this impact your assertion that it is a liberal egalitarian society and therefore should be less of a regressive shithole than it is in practice?
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Dec 16, 2011 08:45
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Zorak posted:The FPA's background is "good", but it's supposed to be a corrupt, terrible government. The entire male citizenry is drafted into an unsustainable, losing war, while the nepotistic elite coasts by un-invested (George W. Busy Syndrome). Protestors get the bloody KKK sent on them and beat to death with hammers. That's BAD. All that poo poo that's wrong with the FPA? It's poignant because the background is good. If it were founded as a flawed horrible thing- if the blame could be moved off the people who exist today and on to the rotten founders of the nation... it would the same loving thing as the Empire, and the contrast would be meaningless. AzraelNewtype posted:I agree with all of this, but how does this impact your assertion that it is a liberal egalitarian society and therefore should be less of a regressive shithole than it is in practice? Sexism doesn't seem to be something the show thinks about at all, but racism is... and the Empire is explicitly racist, while the FPA is never implied to be. In fact that's an incredibly strong a contrast between them, and I think the FPA is supposed to be a racially egalitarian society. The main character is Chinese. That's a pretty big deal, especially in a Japanese work. If it makes you feel better, I could say that the FPA has a liberal egalitarian veneer, and a rotten heart... but by being so lovely about gender and race the author's cultural biases have smudged that veneer, and undercut the contrast that's supposed to exist between the surface appearance and the true nature of the FPA.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:58
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quote:Sexism doesn't seem to be something the show thinks about at all, but racism is... and the Empire is explicitly racist, while the FPA is never implied to be. In fact that's an incredibly strong a contrast between them, and I think the FPA is supposed to be a racially egalitarian society. The main character is Chinese. That's a pretty big deal, especially in a Japanese work. The old empire was. Reinhard voiced nothing for contempt for racism, he almost voiced it as hilarious, particularly since the racial ideal / genetic superiority of the Kaiser's line produced a lot of the "defects" that it loathed in others. He had no problem with people with disfigurements serving under him, etc. The FPA on the other hand is supposed to be egalitarian, but that doesn't mean it actually is. That's kind of the whole point. It's hypocritical in almost every way, other than the fact that it is actually a democracy. It's a horrendously terrible one, while Reinhard is a horrendously GREAT dictator. The bee's knees. A thing about gender issues is brought up, in that I do seem to recall there was some of a hubbub made about him having the future-Kaiserin as his second-in-command when it came to civilian affairs, since she was a lady, though I may be remembering wrong because LOGH is beastly long and who knows. Reinhard just didn't care. The culture was still sexist, but Reinhard was not. But that doesn't mean necessarily that the FPA had to be the exact opposite. There's a lot of stuff that's equally hosed in both, that doesn't diminish the quandary proposed by the series. The FPA is not supposed to be egalitarian, that is immediately apparent from its draft policy. Women are constrained to staying home, one would assume for "reproductive purposes", which is sexist as gently caress. poo poo, there's a lot of governments that have "fair" drafts that are boldly hypocritical about it in other regards: look at Israel. They'll have (and require) everyone, man, woman, whatever the race and gender and sexuality and religion, to serve, but that won't stop them from Apartheid-ing and marginalizing those groups like gently caress. Hypocrisy is easy. The United States is supposedly an ideal in equality and holds itself up as the all-fair country where everything is blessed and great but it isn't. Our government is racist and sexist as gently caress. Just because the US opposes governments that are worse than us doesn't make this less true. The FPA is kind of the same way: they're not ideal, but they have in Yang's eyes the potential to be. The Empire meanwhile could be the best thing ever in human history one day and terrible the next, all on one man's whim. You're not supposed to love or like the FPA, at all as I understand it, any more than you are supposed to loathe the Kaiser's empire necessarily. The series is definitely pro-democracy, but that doesn't make this less the case. You are rooting for Yang and Reinhard: two ideals coming out of systems that are so loving far from either's notion of ideal that it's unreal. But the Kaiser is achieving his, so his government is less distasteful. But Yang is playing the long game, while Reinhard plays the short, so that's a given. Zorak fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 09:11
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| # ? May 16, 2024 13:06 |
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It is of course not possible to go into detail of every aspect of the fictional universe the series takes place in, but it is a weakness of the series that the ethnic, cultural and social tensions that should exist considering the historical events that form the background of the conflict between the Empire and the Alliance are glossed over. First and foremost, we are told that the Empire was founded by a despot who favoured eugenics and preferred people with Northern European phenotypes, though it is unclear how harshly people of the wrong "race" were treated if they had no particular defects that would fall under the Inferior Genes Exclusion Act. In spite of this history, you don't see characters from the opposing sides using the expected slurs and invective against each other. It is like the only kind of social tensions that exist are those between followers of opposing political philosophies (Democracy versus Autocracy) and to a lesser degree between social classes. Aside from that, there are many other aspects of the workings of galactic human society that are either simplified or not mentioned at all. For example, the two sides are shown to have separate written languages, badly spelled German for the Empire and badly spelled English for the Alliance. Yet when people from opposing sides interact, there is no sign of any language barriers. Do they use universal translators, or is everyone perfectly bilingual? Shouldn't they use the same language in any case, given that the Alliance was founded a couple of hundred years ago by refugees from the Empire? Are there any stubborn holdouts in the Empire that refuse to assimilate into the official Pseudo-Prussian culture, and what would official policy toward them be? The Alliance consists of people of many different ethnic backgrounds (judging by their names), but their culture seems oddly uniform across the board. Are there really no ethnic tensions in their society? And wouldn't the different planets in the galaxy over time develop their own character in terms of culture and society, thus effectively creating new ethnicities? These are all issues Humanity would likely face under conditions like the ones depicted in the series and that should affect the plot, but which are not addressed at all in-story. Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 16:01
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