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The_Cack posted:Yeah I think anyone that fights Filipino Champ or Clockwork is probably going to lose. I still think that running away is the best idea. You don't have to agree with me. Jean's damage is rear end unless she uses a super and if she does you hit her once and she is dead. Her mixups only work if you stay still. Yeah and yet seriously any time a player tries to run from Phoenix (with more than say 25 seconds or so) in a tournament match on stream it ends up backfiring. The reason no one did it by the end of the game's life is that once phoenix players actually learned how to play her properly, running away from her wasn't a viable option whatsoever because of her mobility and mixup options. There are tons of archived stream matches where players try to run away from phoenix and end up losing because the phoenix player actually has a brain and knows how to perform mixups.
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Dec 15, 2011 20:46
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I don't really care what tournament players do that work for them, I don't see her as a problem so we'll have to disagree.
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Dec 15, 2011 20:52
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The_Cack posted:I don't really care what tournament players do that work for them, I don't see her as a problem so we'll have to disagree. The point is that you're not playing competent players, not that tourney players are doing things that mere mortals cannot. It shouldn't be possible to run away from Phoenix, the same way that it shouldn't be possible to run away from Spencer. Unless there is a massive gulf in skill levels, you will be hunted down.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:01
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Vengarr posted:The point is that you're not playing competent players, not that tourney players are doing things that mere mortals cannot. It shouldn't be possible to run away from Phoenix, the same way that it shouldn't be possible to run away from Spencer. Unless there is a massive gulf in skill levels, you will be hunted down.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:06
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And she gets a full combo off a throw in the corner. With X Factor, which a smart Phoenix will burn if they throw you in the corner and know you're running, that's a dead character without using a meter. Advice for beating bad players is not useful when it will get you killed against a player who's remotely competent. That's like saying "Mash S with Sentinel to beat Wesker" is good advice when all it will do is beat terrible players.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:11
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The_Cack posted:I don't really care what tournament players do that work for them, I don't see her as a problem so we'll have to disagree. "I don't really care that Dr. Strange has a projectile counter, I'll just throw fireballs at him." "I don't really care that that Zero's normals are safe on block, I always mash against him." "I don't really care that FTW Wolverine is invincible half the game and can instantly kill anybody for free, I don't see him as a problem so we'll have to disagree." Your statement is highly ignorant. "Tournament players" aren't some alien faction who do things in a crazy manner. They're just people exactly like you and me who effectively use the tools a character has, and generally the winning ones are better at it. Phoenix has good mixups whether or not you are moving. You "don't see her as a problem" because you haven't yet fought anybody who's tried any of them or because you refuse to try any of them. It's anecdotal evidence at best, usually outright wrong, and the opposite of truth at worst. edit: The_Cack posted:I'm giving advice to people on how to beat phoenix not telling tournaments players how to beat evo. No, you're not giving advice on how to beat Phoenix because your advice only works against a specific subset of people who actively refuse to learn how to play the game, making it moot. "I've found that I can easily beat my cat at Marvel by simply throwing a rubber band out the doorway and killing her characters while she chases it." Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 21:11
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So do you guys just stop playing when phoenix pops on screen? What do you guys do?
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Dec 15, 2011 21:14
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Hit xfactor and hope for the best.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:17
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The_Cack posted:So do you guys just stop playing when phoenix pops on screen? What do you guys do? No one's saying that, they're just saying your "solution" to the problem isn't a solution at all, and running away has been proved to be a REALLY BAD option against a competent Phoenix player, since she can get in on you and mix you up - and if she's against your anchor, she CAN one-touch kill you with X-Factor or at least get very close.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:18
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The_Cack posted:So do you guys just stop playing when phoenix pops on screen? What do you guys do? You both kill each other in one hit, try and have more characters/meter/opportunities than her to get that hit.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:19
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Dias posted:No one's saying that, they're just saying your "solution" to the problem isn't a solution at all, and running away has been proved to be a REALLY BAD option against a competent Phoenix player, since she can get in on you and mix you up - and if she's against your anchor, she CAN one-touch kill you with X-Factor or at least get very close.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:19
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The_Cack posted:So do you guys just stop playing when phoenix pops on screen? What do you guys do? Congratulations, you're starting to grasp the concept of tiers and the concept of certain characters being outright better than others, to the point where you have to change your playstyle to fight specifically them or risk a high chance of defeat.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:19
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Honestly, worst case scenario, if you can't figure out how to beat Phoenix, play Phoenix and figure out how people beat you.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:22
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Broken Loose posted:You rush her down and prevent her from using her options. Obviously you can't mash while doing so; you have to intelligently use assists and don't do unsafe things.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:23
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I think the key is to take some calculated risks. Like if I'm playing Spencer, I'll definitely throw out a random Bionic Arm, x-factor cancel, bionic arm again to catch her mashing c.l, and DHC into a safe super if I screw up. If either Bionic Arm hits, I win, if it fails, I'll at least burn some x-factor time and have another chance to land that one hit. She's got way too much priority and safe mixup options to risk playing normally. Particularly with X-Factor 3 Dark Phoenix, I see each character as a one-shot opportunity to get a kill. I run Wesker/Spencer/Doom, and each has a different sink-or-swim trick to kill DP--Wesker has his projectile counter, Spencer has the Bionic Arm, and Doom can X-factor guard cancel into a level 3. With three shots to win, the odds are pretty decent. Though of course, the best method is just to kill her before she gets five bars. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 21:27
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Vengarr posted:I think the key is to take some calculated risks. Like if I'm playing Spencer, I'll definitely throw out a random Bionic Arm, x-factor cancel, bionic arm again to catch her mashing c.l, and DHC into a safe super if I screw up. If either Bionic Arm hits, I win, if it fails, I'll at least burn some x-factor time and have another chance to land that one hit. She's got way too much priority and safe mixup options to risk playing normally. Yeah, vs. Phoenix is all about taking risks, either by outguessing your opponent or by trying to set her up for a one-touch kill.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:31
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She has low health so I just cross my fingers and try to sneak in a hit somewhere. "Block everything successfully for 30 seconds in Marvel" sounds like some kind of nightmare torture scenario
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Dec 15, 2011 21:47
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http://www.capcom-unity.com/brelston/blog/2011/12/15/heroes__heralds:_ability_card_spotlight_on_three_classic_capcom_characters Honestly even though you can't do proper local multiplayer with it and it's like the most pot monster thing in the world, every bit of H&H news I hear excites me in some way. Seems like a fun as hell mode.
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Dec 15, 2011 21:50
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40 OZ posted:She has low health so I just cross my fingers and try to sneak in a hit somewhere. That Godot card looks like a good phoenix counter Brett lol AntifaSupersoldier fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 21:52
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Brett824 posted:http://www.capcom-unity.com/brelston/blog/2011/12/15/heroes__heralds:_ability_card_spotlight_on_three_classic_capcom_characters This would be a really fun "screw around with friends" things, why isn't it available for local MP other than Capcom hating their customers?
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Dec 15, 2011 22:18
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Dias posted:This would be a really fun "screw around with friends" things, why isn't it available for local MP other than Capcom hating their customers? Probably because the whole Good vs Evil faction aspect of it wouldn't really make as much sense in offline vs.
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Dec 15, 2011 22:29
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Brett824 posted:Probably because the whole Good vs Evil faction aspect of it wouldn't really make as much sense in offline vs. Why not though? Couldn't your buddy just choose to be evil or whatever? I don't see any advantage whatsoever making this online/ai only. Capcom gives us the ability to change all kinds of system parameters, etc. yet the only way to enjoy it is over online? The same online which is already lackluster to begin with, and down right bad in most instances? It's cool though. We'll probably get a local play option in the inevitable Arcade Edition update. Man, Capcom never really bugged me at all before the current generation. They really are kind of garbage now.
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Dec 15, 2011 22:37
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Brett824 posted:Probably because the whole Good vs Evil faction aspect of it wouldn't really make as much sense in offline vs. I suppose, but still, that mode is basically tailor-made for playing with friends, I dunno why they decided to make it so online-focused.
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Dec 15, 2011 22:38
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I've been messing around with a bunch of characters, and it's all good fun. I remember what Viscant said, Zero is the best character. I think I believe him, jumping H, great mix up dashes, air dash. He might be the best front person. Zero can mix you up from wherever(usually), and assists only make it easier. I'm not great at this game, and my main is Zero. So what do you think? e: also DHCs, shadow hyper etc. I dunno I think Zero is swag. Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 15, 2011 22:43
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ShooterHeart1CC posted:I've been messing around with a bunch of characters, and it's all good fun. I remember what Viscant said, Zero is the best character. I think I believe him, jumping H, great mix up dashes, air dash. He might be the best front person. Zero can mix you up from wherever(usually), and assists only make it easier. He's good, but I feel like he's really weak to counters. His j.H pressure is so predictable that he is one of the few characters I can time Wesker counters with, and Rhino Charge utterly destroys him. Moves with startup invincibility destroy his pressure game as well...Lariat, Bionic arm...take away the threat of his crossup j.H and he's nowhere near as threatening.
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Dec 15, 2011 22:56
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Vengarr posted:He's good, but I feel like he's really weak to counters. His j.H pressure is so predictable that he is one of the few characters I can time Wesker counters with, and Rhino Charge utterly destroys him. Moves with startup invincibility destroy his pressure game as well...Lariat, Bionic arm...take away the threat of his crossup j.H and he's nowhere near as threatening. Zero can zone okay and assists can make him zone great. As for Wesker, I think the best person to fight Wesker is Zero. Wesker is mean, he can do whatever. With assists and jumping H you have a good chance of catching Wesker. I hate Wesker, but who doesn't? Lariat assist requires patience, you do actually need to read your opponent and know when it will be out. Of course Zero isn't an instant win button, I'm just trying to point out he might actually be top 5.
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Dec 15, 2011 23:12
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ShooterHeart1CC posted:Zero can zone okay and assists can make him zone great. As for Wesker, I think the best person to fight Wesker is Zero. Wesker is mean, he can do whatever. With assists and jumping H you have a good chance of catching Wesker. I hate Wesker, but who doesn't? Oh yeah, he's definitely top-tier. It just struck me that he feels especially weak to counters, partly because his attacks are so telegraphed and partly because Zero players are so used to all of their pressures being 100% safe.
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Dec 15, 2011 23:20
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IMO, a problem with Zero is that he requires more practice and especially homework on setups than other characters. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, or that its high execution, it just seems like people who run Zero end up spending less time than they would maybe like with their other characters.
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Dec 15, 2011 23:57
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40 OZ posted:IMO, a problem with Zero is that he requires more practice and especially homework on setups than other characters. On the other hand, if you like laboring in training he's really fun.
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Dec 16, 2011 00:00
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Dias posted:This would be a really fun "screw around with friends" things, why isn't it available for local MP other than Capcom hating their customers? Its so they have something new to add when Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3: Amazing Edition drops this summer
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Dec 16, 2011 01:04
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ShooterHeart1CC posted:Zero can zone okay and assists can make him zone great.
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Dec 16, 2011 01:34
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Zero was straight up the best keepaway character in vanilla Marvel 3 by an extreme long shot due to the buster raindrop poo poo he could pull. A good Zero could (and would) sit at the top of the screen for the entire match raining level 1/2 busters on you while calling assists because almost every single character in the cast had no answer for it. He's definitely in the top of keepaway characters in Ultimate too, though it's because his lightning buster cancels and how they lead into full combos. He's at more risk but also covers far more space for a longer amount of time so it ends up evening out. If people are really looking for a "counter" to anchor Wesker the answer is Zero because he's basically untouchable by Wesker (and almost every single rushdown character) outside of a major fuckup and has been since the original game. edit: He's also easily top 3 in the game, and probably fighting Dormammu for the spot as "best character" (his only weakness is that he can't threaten assists as much as Dormammu can so people can call them on him more often, though it's probably useless because he won't be in their control area) Fereydun fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 01:42
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I feel like everytime I make a really dumb mistake in online mode there should be a drat laughtrack, because online Marvel might as well be a slapstick comedy.
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Dec 16, 2011 01:57
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I feel like everytime I make a really dumb mistake in online mode there should be a drat laughtrack, because online Marvel might as well be a slapstick comedy. Marvel at any level except the highest seems to be an endless sequence of pratfalls.
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Dec 16, 2011 01:59
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Brett824 posted:Probably because the whole Good vs Evil faction aspect of it wouldn't really make as much sense in offline vs. H&H vs. could have been an extra mode. Just like the 'Extra Versus' mode in Soul Calibur 2. I wonder if Capcom will publically state the reason for not including it.
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Dec 16, 2011 03:40
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Player 2 posted:The Neo vs Clockworck money match which you may have already seen but hey, any excuse to watch this again dat fukkin dog!! posted:Careful watching this, you'll probably cry because it makes mvc3 look so so bad.  That is to Marvel 3 as Marvel 3 is to Street Fighter 4
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Dec 16, 2011 05:14
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Archenteron posted:
Every time someone links Marvel2: The Movie, I feel compelled to watch the whole thing. You just quoted it, and now I'm watching it again. So Hype... So... Beautiful... Crank that Soulja Boy.  I miss Dogface.
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Dec 16, 2011 06:24
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The weirdest/best part is the crowd vilifying Neo.
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Dec 16, 2011 06:30
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I had to watch the whole thing again too. So goddamn good.
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Dec 16, 2011 06:43
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ZackHoagie posted:The weirdest/best part is the crowd vilifying Neo. That was the first thing I've ever really seen from MvC2, is there any write up that gives the context?
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