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Somewhat related to this discussion, I think in one of the history episodes they explain/show that while the original... 50 000? 400 000? (or did only a fraction of those reach Heinessen?) of the FPA, and whatever few generations that came from those until they bumped up to the Empire's borders again, were total democracy-bros. It was the HUGE* influx of refugees and criminals/political exiles from the Empire turned the FPA into a real shithole as far as politics went. The original dudes must have been some hardcore democracy loving guys to take such a crazy and risky journey in the first place, kinda like swimming to the antarctic to build your ideal society, but once people (and not everyone fled because they were angels) who had a decidedly more "pseudo prussian" cultural view and background jumped aboard it went off the rails pretty quickly. Imagine being the Prime minister of Denmark, in a sudden war with China. You'd be pretty eager to accept ANYONE coming over the border if it meant increasing your manpower. Before you know it you're also accepting corrupt nobles who have fallen out of favour but brought their wealth with them (and their pretty posh education), just to boost your war funds and soon those same people are running most of the government. * I mean, it must have been gigantic considering they managed to hit some... 15? billion people compared to the Empire's 25 billion in just a few hundred years (just a few decades above 100 years after settling on Heinessen!) starting from jack poo poo. By any logic the first decades of the war must have seen what, a few hundred millions at most? (Being wildly optimistic) up against the Empire. They'd have to be pretty hardcore just to last for 150 years of warfare. That or have the biggest  ever to get population up by the time they started rubbing borders. In fact, it would have been like 30+ billion vs whatever million of FPA dudes at first until billions of refugees could flood over the borders. I'd watch a show of THOSE early battles  (That or the writer spent all of 2 minutes coming up with those numbers and they don't make any loving sense  )
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 16:57
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The stated numbers do not make sense at all. Some 400 000 dissidents set out under the leadership of Ale Heinessen, and when they reached the planet that would be named after him only about 150 000 were left. 113 years later the Empire discovers them, but somehow the republicans have managed to create an industrial base large enough to field a starfleet strong enough to hold off the Imperial Fleet. At the beginning of the series, some 150 years later, they have swelled to 15 billion citizens against the Empire's 25 billion. Such growth is unlikely in the extreme considering the factors working against it - it would have been more believable if the FPA had been formed by a group of established colonies that had revolted against Imperial rule and managed to hold their own against the might of the Empire by using the chokepoints of the space corridors to their advantage.
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Dec 16, 2011 17:31
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No no you see... 400 000 set out. 150 000 arrive, the rest dying in a cruel game of galactic Minesweeper. They got 100 years (well, a bit more but for this calculation let's keep it simple) Each generation gets 25 years to pop out babies and infrastructure. First 150 000 uses their ships (or equipment from them) to establish their little cities on the planet. Long days of fighting alien flesh-eating lifeforms make them extremely horny and they somehow manage to pop out oh... 10 babies per family. Subtracting 2 for replacement of the old/dead parents we get 1 200 000 people (somewhat more because the old people aren't actually all dead yet) after 25 years. This batch pops out another 10 babies for each couple. 9 600 000 after 50 or so years. 76 800 000 after 75 years. 614 400 000 after 100 years and maybe they manage to double that by the time they bumb into the empire. Obviously that's not enough to last very long, but they are smart people and got star maps, so they find the original corridor their ancestors travelled through and keeps their own in the first... 10 years or so of skirmishes, by which time the lazy Kaiser notices that billions of his citizens have crossed the frontlines to settle in happy fun land (renamed the Free Planets Alliance). Hmm, let's call it LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC MORMONS by ORSON SCOTT CARD  But really, the whole scenario of dissidents striking out into the wild west makes little sense. You get 3 possible scenarios: 1) As above, time is too short to make up the numbers but you can kinda believe that 400 000 managed to set out in their ice ships. 2) You compensate the numbers from the start, 100 000 000 set out! Yeah, except they live in Space Gestapo land so how are they gonna pull that off unnoticed? 3) The first scenario, except they get like 1000 years to settle their new home. By the time they bump into the Empire it's A) Probably not an Empire anymore and B) None of the people left alive give a poo poo about the original conflict. It's not like they are short on SPACE. I believe Battletech did it by having a whole combat fleet setting out by the end of their little civil war way back, so they both had bigger numbers, more plausible technology and more time to manage it. Having some planets "break off" in this setting only work if say, the corridors are physically blocked for whatever time, because it creates a different feel to the setting than when it's an actual civil war that's been going on since "day one" of the rebellion. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Dec 16, 2011 |
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Dec 16, 2011 17:52
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They could have always resorted to artificial reproduction.
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Dec 16, 2011 23:46
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     "Ah just throw some foreign characters in there, no one will know the difference!"
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Dec 17, 2011 01:35
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Takes No Damage posted:"Ah just throw some foreign characters in there, no one will know the difference!" Well, do remember that before this was remastered, it was impossible to have read that text anyway Lots of comics/ animation put in bogus text for stuff that doesn't matter. Loren ipsum et. al
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Dec 17, 2011 01:59
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Oh sure, I didn't expect it to be legitimate flavor text, but why not use random Japanese? I can't think of any signs or anything but does the official language of the Empire use the Latin alphabet? I've just started rewatching the show after work on Fridays, since CA's shiny new DVD files finally finished downloading. That's from 113. Wonder what other little stuff I'll pick up on during this second viewing. I was already all  when the FPA council was arguing that they didn't have the economic strength to support a costly foreign invasion... after reading about exactly that on CNN... ohgod it's all happening again  \/\/\/ ep 115 or 116 has Reinhard in a conference or something explaining stuff to his fleet commanders and all the names are on screen in Latin letters, so yea I'm unobservant. I still think just running through the alphabet in order is funny. Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 18, 2011 |
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Dec 17, 2011 02:41
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Takes No Damage posted:Oh sure, I didn't expect it to be legitimate flavor text, but why not use random Japanese? I can't think of any signs or anything but does the official language of the Empire use the Latin alphabet? The Empire uses German and the FPA English, so yes?
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Dec 17, 2011 04:58
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As a newbie who just started watching this with the first movie I have to say that if the rest of the show is as incredible as the movie was this is gonna be a hell of a ride and I can't wait. Also Yang Wenli has the biggest balls.
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Dec 17, 2011 09:14
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Hey, should we organise some informal simulwatchathon of our own over the winter break? The series only takes about two solid days of watching, right?
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Dec 17, 2011 09:26
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ChaosSamusX posted:Hey, should we organise some informal simulwatchathon of our own over the winter break? The series only takes about two solid days of watching, right? I dunno man I can't think of anyone who can dedicate 2 solid days to watch a show. you would have to stick to a pretty tight schedule of only watching LOGH.
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Dec 17, 2011 10:42
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Say Zorak, looks like the DDL links I put in the OP don't actually contain the second half of the Gaidens (Spiral Labyrinth). I couldn't find any fileserves for it though, just these torrent links: http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=161290 http://bakabt.com/155216-legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-spiral-labyrinth-h264-ca.html Also after "3rd Battle of Tiamat - 2 Episodes" should be added after "Retriever - 4 Episodes".
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Dec 17, 2011 14:39
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Uznare posted:As a newbie who just started watching this with the first movie I have to say that if the rest of the show is as incredible as the movie was this is gonna be a hell of a ride and I can't wait. The rest of the show is just as good as Overture, yes. Unless you're talking about Conquest, in which case, the rest of the show is just as good as Conquest as well. I can't think of any other show that has this many episodes and manages to be kickass the entire way through. Nothing like 'oh the second half of season 3 sucks but then it gets good again' stuff here, just consistent political/military badassery for all 55 hours. Also I'm really hoping SamusX meant to type 'weeks' and not 'days' otherwise
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Dec 18, 2011 00:59
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Takes No Damage posted:The rest of the show is just as good as Overture, yes. Unless you're talking about Conquest, in which case, the rest of the show is just as good as Conquest as well. I can't think of any other show that has this many episodes and manages to be kickass the entire way through. Nothing like 'oh the second half of season 3 sucks but then it gets good again' stuff here, just consistent political/military badassery for all 55 hours. Also I'm really hoping SamusX meant to type 'weeks' and not 'days' otherwise It's less than 40 hours, what are ya, a wussy? Wussy boy gonna cry for his momma, ask her if he can have 3 days to watch the best show? 
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Dec 18, 2011 06:06
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Takes No Damage posted:The rest of the show is just as good as Overture, yes. Unless you're talking about Conquest, in which case, the rest of the show is just as good as Conquest as well. I can't think of any other show that has this many episodes and manages to be kickass the entire way through. Nothing like 'oh the second half of season 3 sucks but then it gets good again' stuff here, just consistent political/military badassery for all 55 hours. Also I'm really hoping SamusX meant to type 'weeks' and not 'days' otherwise I meant days as in solid time watching the series. Obviously it would take weeks to marathon the thing at anything approaching a sane pace. Would the winter break work for this purpose? I'm honestly for this if enough people could manage. 110 episodes x around 25 minutes = almost exactly 2 days (or 48 hours of solid material). If we could devote two weeks to a marathon, that would be 24 hours a week, or roughly 3.5 hours a day. It's almost insane, but still feasible.
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Dec 18, 2011 06:47
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110 episodes? I believe you mean 162 episodes. Get those fuckin' gaiden seasons in there! If you're gonna go LoGH marathon you better go big or go home
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Dec 18, 2011 08:02
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Fine, 162 episodes. ie, roughly 80 hours of solid watching. How long would a reasonably paced marathon of all that take?
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Jan 3, 2012 05:49
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I finished watching the main series last night. I don't think I've watched anything else that managed to deliver such a quality story all of the way through, right up until the end. I really wish Creative Assembly would make a Space: Total War so I could make a LOGH mod 
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Jan 5, 2012 15:26
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dotJPG posted:I really wish Creative Assembly would make a Space: Total War so I could make a LOGH mod A page back: HenryEx posted:Pretty LoGH-ish, you say.
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Jan 9, 2012 08:30
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Fantastic series. One of the first times I've watched through an entire show without spoiling part of it on Wikipedia in years and man it was worth it for the last third of the show. Why Yang whyyyyyy. I was upset by that for like a day and refused to watch anymore episodes when it happened. Aside from agreeing with the feminism sentiments a page or two back, my only beef with the show would be the majority of the Terraism plotlines. I felt like the author himself was trying to convey something when Reuental brings Truniht in, shoots him, and more or less says "well I cleaned that mess up." That and Rubinsky's plotlines; it felt like they really had something going for them and then it all petered out as failed ambitions and mad men without a leader in season 4. I guess the show was just trying to back up Yang's thoughts that the flow of history can't be stopped through terrorism and conspiracies, b lasty showing the last vestiges of the Terra cult being gunned down in the rain after their incredibly pointless failed assassination attempt on a man that was already dying. Minera fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jan 11, 2012 |
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Jan 11, 2012 07:52
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I'm on episode 10 and loving it, though I much prefer Yang Wen-li's character and plotline to Reinhard's. He just seems to have much better supporting characters and the political intrigue of the Free Alliance seems more realistic and relatable than the courtly stuff. Jessica Edwards' activism, for instance, is far more interesting than the tepid Annerose. I realise I'm only a short way in and there's plenty that could change to make me like the Imperial episodes more.
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Jan 12, 2012 11:28
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Chas McGill posted:I'm on episode 10 and loving it, though I much prefer Yang Wen-li's character and plotline to Reinhard's. He just seems to have much better supporting characters and the political intrigue of the Free Alliance seems more realistic and relatable than the courtly stuff. Reinhard's side fleshes out a lot more in the next dozen or so eps. LoGH beauty lies in it's ability to humanize both sides of the conflict to the point where you just wish they would be space bros
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Jan 13, 2012 17:17
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But his sister is definitely one of the more forgettable people on the Empire side. She's a great source of motivation for Reinhard but she never actually does anything. \/\/\/ edit: Holy poo poo, I thought that meant rosebuds were pretty small and didn't really do anything until they bloomed. How the gently caress did I just now think of Citizen Kane  Reinhard as William Randolf Hurst, discuss! Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 14, 2012 02:42
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Takes No Damage posted:But his sister is definitely one of the more forgettable people on the Empire side. She's a great source of motivation for Reinhard but she never actually does anything. Annerosebud.
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Jan 14, 2012 05:23
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From what I've seen so far, having Kircheis as his motivation would make a whole lot more sense. At least Kircheis seems to have some kind of personality. As an aside: I'm absolutely loving the design on show in this. Both factions are clearly delineated in fashion, architecture, and technology. The Free Alliance terminal PC things are particularly interesting - one of the few computery things I've seen in an old show that don't seem hilariously dated. Chas McGill fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jan 14, 2012 |
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Jan 14, 2012 14:02
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Chinook posted:Annerosebud. I'm looking for the Like button for this post but I can't find it.
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Jan 14, 2012 16:55
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Kopijeger posted:The stated numbers do not make sense at all. Some 400 000 dissidents set out under the leadership of Ale Heinessen, and when they reached the planet that would be named after him only about 150 000 were left. 113 years later the Empire discovers them, but somehow the republicans have managed to create an industrial base large enough to field a starfleet strong enough to hold off the Imperial Fleet. At the beginning of the series, some 150 years later, they have swelled to 15 billion citizens against the Empire's 25 billion. Such growth is unlikely in the extreme considering the factors working against it - it would have been more believable if the FPA had been formed by a group of established colonies that had revolted against Imperial rule and managed to hold their own against the might of the Empire by using the chokepoints of the space corridors to their advantage. Well, also keep in mind that until they ran into the FPA, the Empire had no reason to field a large expeditionary star fleet; they would have only needed patrol cruisers to prevent piracy, and a smallish battle fleet to put down local uprisings. Meanwhile, the FPA *knows* the Empire's still out there, *knows* the Empire is probably going to be a bunch of assholes if and when they ever find the FPA, so they have plenty of reason to begin the military build-up as soon as is practical. With a head-start, it's quite possible that a smaller nation could build up a force capable of holding against a larger force with a longer supply chain, especially since the FPA would be more compact earlier on and better able to concentrate its forces, whereas presumably the Empire won't want to (might not even be ABLE to) immediately strip its entire fleet to go invade FPA space.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:52
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All right, I'm on episode 14 and I can see why LoGH is held in such high esteem. There isn't really anything else like it in anime, at least not that I know of. Absolutely loving how the scale shifts from cataclysmic space battles to the importance of botany on colony worlds to political intrigue to the pilots who fly fighters that just look like dots on the screen most of the time. Tremendous. It's good enough to make me curious about the novels. Is there an English translation available?
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Jan 16, 2012 18:43
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I'm around episode 11 or so myself and I loved Reinhard's massive  on that one military guy at the Kaiser's son-in-laws party (the one with the painting of the original Kaiser). And I hate not being able to type their names but still getting used to the large cast. I know it's rather early but I like Reinhard more than Yang but I'm liking the FPA storyline a bit more
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Jan 17, 2012 17:15
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Chinook posted:Annerosebud. Ahaha oh man, how did I not see that parallel/reference. Brilliant.
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Jan 17, 2012 18:02
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thecallahan posted:I'm around episode 11 or so myself and I loved Reinhard's massive You will grow to learn you need not pick one or the other, you can love them both 
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Jan 17, 2012 18:15
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I'm curious, what's the general consensus as to what the best arc of the show is? If there even is a consensus.
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Jan 17, 2012 21:48
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I don't think there is a consensus. The shows hits on all cylinders for the entire run so it's a bit of a meaningless distinction (OVA excluded). I myself was very partial to the first series and second, and was little less interested in the Terranism stuff and the last arc of the show with ruental's rebellion and Reinhards demise. Still, the iserlohn stuff before that and the terranism getting Yang were really really good, even if overall the terranism stuff was uneven. I really really REALLY didn't like that the terranism compound used ~freaky brain chemicals~ to convert people. There are countless examples in history of religious and nationalistic fanatics that need nothing more than the excuse of righteousness and superiority to bind them to the cause. Going 'oh, they were drugged' is really sad. The terranism portrayal is the weakest link. They are cartoon villians in a show that is otherwise realized with surprising fullness and depth. Oh, and Reinhard's strategy to fight yang with the tissue paper / wine thing was loving stupid. As a commander of his intelligence it felt so needlessly wasteful and inelegant of him.
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Jan 17, 2012 22:04
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Conduit for Sale! posted:I'm curious, what's the general consensus as to what the best arc of the show is? If there even is a consensus. Everything between episodes 61-86 are what I consider to be the high point of the show.
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Jan 18, 2012 05:06
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DamnGlitch posted:You will grow to learn you need not pick one or the other, you can love them both That being said Yang Wenli is the chillest dude to ever live. He is  incarnate.
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Jan 19, 2012 01:40
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Uznare posted:That being said Yang Wenli is the chillest dude to ever live. He is Agreed. I particularly like how he sits on the bridge. I've never heard of tea with brandy before, though.
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Jan 19, 2012 02:37
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Conduit for Sale! posted:I'm curious, what's the general consensus as to what the best arc of the show is? If there even is a consensus. There are certain points that could be considered 'high points', but the series is consistently very good. Even though it has a few growing pains in the first season, it's still well above expectations.
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Jan 19, 2012 02:47
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The foreshadowing of High Admiral Ovlessor and his eventual appearance in episode 20 is masterful, as is use of music throughout the episode. Modern anime would have lovely nu-metal in the battle scenes. Also, Oberstein's voice actor, bearing, and lines make me think of him as a Mentat from Dune. He's an excellent character.
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Jan 19, 2012 03:02
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Oberstein is like a cooler smarter Dick Cheney. Willing to play the bad guy and make tough decisions in order to make Reinhard look good. One of my favorite characters to watch.
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Jan 19, 2012 13:57
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I really need to get around to watching all of the series/movies. Started off with the movie 'My Conquest is the Sea of Stars' then started watching the main series. Only up to episode 32  ... I think I might go back and watch the 2 Gaiden series, then continue with the series.You can find links to the torrents in the Central Anime forums. They just updated them and have all the links in one post. edit: Just remembered I have 2 weeks of holidays coming up. Marathon time! oilatsnep fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 19, 2012 |
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Jan 19, 2012 15:23
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