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Prison Warden posted:He also has horse/cow puns I guess? I like being thorough, I guess? Yeah, there are parts that would be equally incomprehensible to both languages (I actually didn't know about the Farsi bit, I was assuming that all of the "100%" references were because Sagittarius is a centaur (and yes, I know that it doesn't work out that way in the actual etymology). But there's also screen names (gallowsCalibrator, twinArmageddons) that are pretty much clear to English speakers but wouldn't be nearly as clear to a Chinese speaker, even if they really payed attention in their highschool English class. Also, since the actual names need to be transliterated anyway, might as well try to make it work a little? Really, it comes down to whatever translation strategy you personally prefer.
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Dec 29, 2011 08:08
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There's also Sagittarius -> Centaur -> Cent meaning one hundred.
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Dec 29, 2011 08:26
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:There's also Sagittarius -> Centaur -> Cent meaning one hundred.  Really? You had 18 minutes to notice someone posting above you...Pinechild posted:I like being thorough, I guess? Yeah, there are parts that would be equally incomprehensible to both languages (I actually didn't know about the Farsi bit, I was assuming that all of the "100%" references were because Sagittarius is a centaur (and yes, I know that it doesn't work out that way in the actual etymology). But there's also screen names (gallowsCalibrator, twinArmageddons) that are pretty much clear to English speakers but wouldn't be nearly as clear to a Chinese speaker, even if they really payed attention in their highschool English class. Also, since the actual names need to be transliterated anyway, might as well try to make it work a little? Really, it comes down to whatever translation strategy you personally prefer.
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Dec 29, 2011 08:27
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I hosed up. I hosed up real bad.
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Dec 29, 2011 08:30
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NO LISTEN TO ME posted:Homestuck is to webcomics as Freud is to psychology. I've always looked at it as the White Album of webcomics. It's highly experimental and is really thinking in new directions... it just isn't always successful. Sometimes it's downright bad. But it is definitely worth reading at least once if you care at all about the medium.
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Dec 29, 2011 09:16
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Pinechild posted:I like being thorough, I guess? Yeah, there are parts that would be equally incomprehensible to both languages (I actually didn't know about the Farsi bit, I was assuming that all of the "100%" references were because Sagittarius is a centaur (and yes, I know that it doesn't work out that way in the actual etymology). But there's also screen names (gallowsCalibrator, twinArmageddons) that are pretty much clear to English speakers but wouldn't be nearly as clear to a Chinese speaker, even if they really payed attention in their highschool English class. Also, since the actual names need to be transliterated anyway, might as well try to make it work a little? Really, it comes down to whatever translation strategy you personally prefer. But why are you talking about Chinese people when the translation we're talking about is to Japanese? Transliterating the names wont be hard because Japanese has an entire separate syllabry for transliteration. Equius would be Ekyiasu or whatever. Ekyiasu Zakaku. Karkato Vantasu. His 100% gimmick could be made to match Japanese pretty easily too. Hyaku is 100 in japanese so they could have him "finish" the word whenever he has to use Hya in a word. Some of the gimmick based jokes would have to be changes but that's part of translating. These are MSPAForums purist weaboos though, so they're going to try and be as accurate as possible at the cost of losing the feeling probably. They're definitely not going to "translate" anybody's names. Jan Eguberto, Rozu Rarondo, Deibu Suturaida, Jeido Haruri. They certainly lose some of their catchiness and it breaks the pattern but that's probably what they're going to be in their translation. It's also not uncommon for Japanese people on the internet to use English characters sometimes. So some typing quirks could involve those. e: Every single instance of a dipthong is going to mess them up though. Jack Noir is going to be hard depending on how they pronounce it. QueerPope fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 09:29
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QueerPope posted:But why are you talking about Chinese people when the translation we're talking about is to Japanese? I'm talking about Chinese because it's my second language, I like translating, and I thought we were having a discussion about Homestuck in foreign languages. I probably should have replied directly to the guy who was wondering about handling typing quirks in non-Roman scripts in order to make that clear. I'd be willing to give the MSPAforums Japanese crew the benefit of the doubt since they're translating into Japanese rather than out of Japanese, but I don't have the background in the language to tell the difference. I found their wiki, though, so draw your own conclusions.
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Dec 29, 2011 10:06
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Pinechild posted:I'm pretty sure Gamzee would be the main obstacle in translating Homestuck into Chinese, because I really can't think of any workaround for his capitalization gimmick. Even Karkat's capslock can be emulated by just being really, really angry, but alternating caps is just impossible unless there's some kind of Chinese stoner stereotype I'm not aware of. Equuius is a bit of a problem too, since his typing gimmick is a Latinate root pun of all goddam things. Also, gently caress doing the screennames and keeping the genetics puns, although looking up genetics vocabulary was pretty fun.
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Dec 29, 2011 11:14
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Paul.Power posted:Don't Japanese and Chinese have multiple alphabets? You could switch back and forth between them haphazardly maybe. They do. But as discussed in the translation projects wiki, an alternation between multiple alphabets would be terribly confusing to both write and read. Switching between bold and non-bold characters and/or changing the font size sounds like a better choice, as far as both translating and reading goes.
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Dec 29, 2011 12:10
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QueerPope posted:Right here. e: Removed font-wank because it turns out they are using a game-font. From the really little of 101 Japanese I remember, they're going with a really literal translation, which makes me frown, but is about the standard for fan translation. I know "captchalogue" is a hard word to come up with a pun in another language for, but that doesn't mean you should just type "kyapucharogu" or whatever it is they're using. Take some time, come up with a smart Japanese pun, it's not a race. EDIT: Whoops, didn't refresh. EDIT2: Also Roozu Rarando would be way closer phonetically to "Rose Lalonde" than Rozu Rarondo is, so they aren't even doing it right oh my god why are they making me mad about a language I remember next to nothing about 
dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 12:24
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Romanization of Western nouns and names is hilariously haphazard in Japanese anyway, so it's not that big a deal. What's more important is if there's a precedent already set in place. John is "Jon" （ジョン）, not "Jan" （ジャン）, that turns his name into a sound effect similar to "ta-da". Lalonde is "Raronde" (no I'm not kidding) based on how the name of that one guy in Primus is written. For things like captchalogue, Romanization would definitely not be appropriate for the wordplay that MSPA employs. Take captchalogue: it's essentially capture (摂る, 取る, etc) plus catalogue (型録, 目録, etc). (Incidentally the ateji for catalogue, 型録, is hilariously clever.) The word "captchalogue" can be understood in Japanese just fine when you break it down into it's constituent words, which do exist in the language in katakana, but this comes at the expense of the humor in the pun. A possible alternative is to have a Japanese equivalent for the word by using a literally translated kanji alongside furigana of original word, such as: "shuroku" pronounced as "kyapucha-rogu" 取録（キャプチャーログ） (also a pun on "rokushu", "recording" or "record-taking".) Furigana is a commonly used technique to give something an "alternate" pronunciation. Given the use of innocuous doubles in the series, I think this could be very appropriate for the setting. Also take note that I am in no way fluent in this language and am probably not any better at this than the rest of that thread, but still, my two cents. In fact why don't I just take a look at this translation... yeah, I can see some places where it's too literal (若者回転？ Seriously?), but some stuff I like (これはひどい for "this is stupid", that works pretty well). Translating puns and names and stuff is going to be pretty difficult for this series, especially when it comes to the trolls.
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Dec 29, 2011 14:40
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Going from niconico, I think what you'd expect from a typing gimmick is use of random english letters, or turning syllables into the wrong kanji. Also, japanese has a whole bunch of grammar you use to give people different tones of speech, like the choice of pronouns, use of yo/sa/ne/kai/wa, a bunch of stuff like that. Maybe you could just use the prefix thing equius and nepeta have. Do it like a command line, where karkat gets CG: gently caress> 嫌い嫌い嫌い terezi gets GC: 413> なめるなめるなめる nepeta gets AC: :33> にゃにゃにゃにゃ tavros gets aT: あのう> あのう、 Something like that.
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Dec 29, 2011 15:55
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I think a big problem with translating speech is that people boil it down to "how do I convey a typing quirk in this language" when really it should be "how do I get this person's personality across in a clever way in this language". Japanese isn't the same as English but it still has just as much flexibility and variation, just in different ways than English does. You have to be clever to translate clever things. In fact there should be absolutely no problem with giving people speech patterns in Japanese because there's a hell of a lot of variation with regards to that. Typing might be a bit difficult, but doable. quote:GC: 413>なめるなめるなめる More like "ペロペロペロ", really. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 17:58
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I highly recommend that anyone who has ever gotten in an argument over whether or not pond naturally rhymes with lawn should tool around on wikipedia's International Phonetic Alphabet pages for a bit, especially the links to vowel sounds further down the page. I bring this up because of arguments that arose in the last thread over sŏlʌks versus sɑːlʌks, and because it's generally pretty interesting (also being able to read IPA is cool). Articles on the history of the English language are also worth a look, because knowing why you say things the way is say them is also cool, much like being self-aware. Phonetic translation in general is just a bitch though, because no written language as far as I know has distinct characters (or even character groups) for all the different sounds you can make in that language.  dumb brunette posted:EDIT2: Also Roozu Rarando would be way closer phonetically to "Rose Lalonde" than Rozu Rarondo is, so they aren't even doing it right oh my god why are they making me mad about a language I remember next to nothing about Romanized Japanese is meant to be pronounced from a Japanese perspective though, not a western one, so 'rando' would be a better fit for 'land', since their 'a' sounds are almost always open front unrounded as opposed to the open front rounded or open back sounds that English a's often take. Also uuuuggghhh why did they have to start with Japan? Why not pick a language from somewhere with less of a cultural gap, like Europe? I know the answer is weaboos, but argh  Pollyanna posted:I think a big problem with translating speech is that people boil it down to "how do I convey a typing quirk in this language" when really it should be "how do I get this person's personality across in a clever way in this language". Japanese isn't the same as English but it still has just as much flexibility and variation, just in different ways than English does. You have to be clever to translate clever things. So much for these guys then. 
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Dec 29, 2011 18:07
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I think it would be pretty easy to do a localization to Brazilian Portuguese, even if you change some of the references. But I'm pretty sure I'm the only Brazilian reading Homestuck so whatever.
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Dec 29, 2011 21:15
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Renaissance Robot posted:I highly recommend that anyone who has ever gotten in an argument over whether or not pond naturally rhymes with lawn should tool around on wikipedia's International Phonetic Alphabet pages for a bit, especially the links to vowel sounds further down the page. I bring this up because of arguments that arose in the last thread over sŏlʌks versus sɑːlʌks, and because it's generally pretty interesting (also being able to read IPA is cool). Articles on the history of the English language are also worth a look, because knowing why you say things the way is say them is also cool, much like being self-aware. Oh thank god I'm not the only person who reads those articles for fun. That was why I had done Jan instead of Jon, because Jawn is closer than Jones. But that is just my dialect and maybe where some people live you do pronounce John like Jones? It would be funny if all translations were done directly from the original language to each language by how closely related they are. First we would have Frisian Homestuck, then Dutch and German, then you could get some people to branch off into the Romance languages and get French Homestuck and Spanish Homestuck while some other people go on to make Scandinavian Homestucks. From the Scandinavians you'd move on to the Slavs and the Romance people would move on to Greece and eventually Hebrew. Then you get Arabic ect. Each translation would be done from each closely related language before it. By the time anything got to be translated in Japanese then there would be so many changed story elements and differences. Who knows what sorts of typing quirks you'd end up with. It would especially be interesting when you pass through the languages that don't have a word for homosexual. John would end up having to say something a lot more drastic or wordy to turn down Karkat in that infamous Act 5 II log that launched a million ships.
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Dec 29, 2011 21:50
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The issue with translating the work before the work is complete, especially when that work is Homestuck, is that we still don't know what from the earlier acts has yet to be called back to. There's too much language-reliant humor, especially with the callbacks, that misphrasing something in another language will cause an as-yet-unseen joke in the future to lose its humor. I think some planning and groundwork can be done for a mass-scale translation project, but the actual implementation will have to wait until it's all over.
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Dec 29, 2011 21:57
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I think after a certain point, a translated Homestuck isn't Hussie's work anymore. The entire reason I think a lot of us read it is because it's clever in its articulation of language (a specific language), because he has a firm grasp of English and he can toy with it. He does not have a firm grasp of Japanese, Russian, etc.
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Dec 29, 2011 23:08
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Zaito posted:an alternation between multiple alphabets would be terribly confusing to both write and read. Isn't that the entire point?
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Dec 29, 2011 23:19
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An inexpertly translated Homestuck would probably be the only thing on Earth more confusing than the original.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:12
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These discussions about Japanese Homestuck truly are amazing and fascinating to read. Unfortunately I'm probably not the right person for this kind of project since I'm all about literal translation and annotations and poo poo, even if it ultimately harms artistic presentation. I do agree that it would take a master of Japanese wordplay in order to be able to replicate the Homestuck experience in Japanese.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:I think after a certain point, a translated Homestuck isn't Hussie's work anymore. The entire reason I think a lot of us read it is because it's clever in its articulation of language (a specific language), because he has a firm grasp of English and he can toy with it. That's where a good localizing team comes in. And I actually mean localizing, not just translating. People that have a firm grasp of both English and their native language, that understand Hussie's wordplay and the references he uses and are able to translate them in a way most of the original intent is preserved.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:38
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There's an update, and the music is sweet!
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Dec 30, 2011 00:44
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Oh poo poo kidmom whatcha got there.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:44
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Skaias within Skaias  That was pretty cool.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:47
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I'm not sure what happened here (as usual with me and Homestuck animations), but it was beautiful.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:50
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Loving the giant 'PROSPIT' just casually floating near Jane's dreamroom.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:50
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Also, Andrew's tumblr has some bad news: http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/14993233014/s-eoa6i1 Gonna have another bit of a break coming up.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:51
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oh boy, imperial drones!  (or some REALLY scary looking imps)
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Dec 30, 2011 00:53
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Faulty posted:Loving the giant 'PROSPIT' just casually floating near Jane's dreamroom. I now personally believe that it's a tangible object that exists around Prospit, always there but sometimes hidden from view.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:53
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I think the visuals have been improving since Cascade. That was a really cool.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:53
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I want to know what that piece of music was, because it is great.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:54
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Looks like Bro is taking on those Crocker Drones, if we are to assume each cloud pairs are linked (such as Mom throwing the cat, followed by the next cloud being about the cat breaking through). E: ^^^ Infinity Mechanism! A great track from Volume 8.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:54
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I guess this means I won't be getting any homestuck pages for my birthday.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:55
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Also loving the actual physical presence of the letters around Prospit. Didn't the sun in the end of Act 6 Act 1 flash have the same thing only with "Homestuck" instead of "Prospit"?Cabbit posted:I want to know what that piece of music was, because it is great. Infinity Mechanism, from Volume 8.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:56
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Lady of the Beech posted:I'm not sure what happened here (as usual with me and Homestuck animations), but it was beautiful. Dream Jane lookin' at clouns. Really looking forward to seeing what some of those mean. The drones especially. (And what was that R. was using? Some sort of lunchbox with a mutant kitten motif, or Mutini encased in a big cartoon block of ice, or what?)
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Dec 30, 2011 00:59
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It's time to get an mspa avatar. If someone could get me a shot of Jake in front of the ruins or the dragon circling the volcano, it'd probably be good.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:59
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Here are some: 
tinaun fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 30, 2011 |
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Dec 30, 2011 01:14
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A Good Flash. All the art was very coherent and worked really well together, which wasn't really the case with the Big Flash.
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Dec 30, 2011 01:20
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FewtureMD posted:oh boy, imperial drones! Excuse me, but the term you're looking for is Crockerbots. 
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Dec 30, 2011 01:22
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