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Helmacron
Jun 3, 2005

looking down at the world
I read an article where they were discussing the ongoing effort to abandon the functional, but archaic camera obscura for some other natural light-kinking phenomenon such as a box with a cooler in the top, and a heater in the bottom, to harness the fata morgana. Spectral Flex, or something like that.

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Cockwhore
Jul 10, 2005
a quintessence of dust

xzzy posted:

I think that guy's writing style is incredibly annoying.

There's probably some truth to what he's saying, but there's going to be holdouts for a long time. Film isn't even buried in the grave yet and 10 years ago people were saying its time had come.

As for whether to buy now or wait for these mirrorless cameras to get decent, that's a losing proposition. There's always a better device just around the corner, if you keep waiting for it you'll never buy anything.
Right. The site is ugly, he actually uses the abbreviation "OMG" at some point in the article, and as Reichstag pointed out, there is a big sticker advertising his ~~free~~ HDR tutorial. I also agree that dSLRs won't be going away in the sense that buggies and horses have gone away, and if they do wain in popularity it won't happen overnight and basing any purchasing decision on what technology will be on top 5 years from now - like he is suggesting - is silly. I feel kind of bad for posting it because the message is lost in delivery.

In general, I don't see the reason why cameras will continue having mirrors and prisms in them. Looking through the lens could only be accomplished with a mirror when there's film in the back. The trend continued with digital, partly because of inertia, but mostly because LCDs are laggy, and looking at one to compose is terrible and disorienting. If that hurdle is overcome, however, I see no reason for dSLRs to continue as the dominant tool for people 'serious' about photography.

Mightaswell
Dec 4, 2003

Not now chief, I'm in the fuckin' zone.
Kodak Chapter 11 incoming!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203471004577140841495542810.html#ixzz1iXH9hi5R

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Cockwhore posted:

In general, I don't see the reason why cameras will continue having mirrors and prisms in them. Looking through the lens could only be accomplished with a mirror when there's film in the back. The trend continued with digital, partly because of inertia, but mostly because LCDs are laggy, and looking at one to compose is terrible and disorienting. If that hurdle is overcome, however, I see no reason for dSLRs to continue as the dominant tool for people 'serious' about photography.

I think we'll see a major shift in perception if Canon or Nikon come up with a pro-level mirrorless camera. It doesn't even have to be a whole new thing, more like a 1D with a mirrorless system in it so legacy lenses and accessories would still work. Kind of a transitional model. Same body, new guts.

You'd get blisteringly fast frame rates without all the extra wobbly bits like the mirror and aperture moving around plus it would be quieter. The key is the AF system. So far that has been the weak link in the chain. If someone can get pro AF happening without a pellicle mirror, then I think the age of the SLR will be over. If you can win the pros over, everyone else will follow.

Gravitom
Jul 27, 2001

Well he does have some good points but he also mentions that the new Sony's are DSLT's which are essentially mirrorless cameras on a DSLR body. It makes a lot more sense that the other DSLR manufacturers will go that route. Big sensors will always be better than small sensors so I don't see M4/3 taking over the professional/prosumer market.

quote:

If you’re not familiar with these 3rd Gen Cameras, you may ask, “Why can’t I use my current lenses on these new camera bodies?” The answer is because those lenses are designed for bodies with a mirror that flips up and down. Those bodies need to be _extra-thick_ to make room for that medieval reflective trapdoor. So, your current lenses focus the light too deep for the new supermodel-thin 3rd gen cameras. Yes, there are converters that let you use them, but it defeats the purpose and advantages of having an ultra-small flexible lens system.

This is just silly. There is no reason to abandon a platform because there is 20mm of wasted space if you get rid of the mirror. DSLR's are ergonomically better because they fit snug in your hand so it isn't just the mirror that warrants their size. I could see cameras shrinking if SLT becomes standard but I wouldn't want anything smaller than Rebel sized anyway.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Gravitom posted:

This is just silly. There is no reason to abandon a platform because there is 20mm of wasted space if you get rid of the mirror. DSLR's are ergonomically better because they fit snug in your hand so it isn't just the mirror that warrants their size. I could see cameras shrinking if SLT becomes standard but I wouldn't want anything smaller than Rebel sized anyway.

It's probably safe to say that cameras will shrink because it'll make them seem modern and sexy, but the smart decision will be to use that extra space to cram in more awesome.

Bigger battery, more processors, multiple card slots, maybe an ethernet jack or something to increase options for getting images off the device.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
What's the best example of an electronic viewfinder you will see today? I'm curious in comparing one to The Real Thing in a conventional DSLR. Something about e-Viewfinders just rubs me the wrong way. Mainly because my idea of an e-Viewfinder is from P&S bridge cameras which is typically out and out terrible.

JAY ZERO SUM GAME
Oct 18, 2005

Walter.
I know you know how to do this.
Get up.


William T. Hornaday posted:

Well, I just talked to the director of HR and he's almost as bad as everyone else. Despite the fact that I brought a printout of the relevant passages of Title 17 and explained what work-for-hire entails, the company apparently still feel that not only do they have complete and total ownership on anything that I've taken on the clock (which is not the case with 99% of my photos), but that anything taken on my weekends from public areas with my own equipment fall into some sort of gray area and are still somehow partially theirs due to me being employed by them (on other days of the week) and the photos having some value/interest to the company.

Sucks for them, because I will never bring a photo of mine within 500 yards of work as long as I'm alive.
They're basically saying "take us to court or shut up." They know you won't because you will instantly be fired if you do, and you're almost certainly going to lose because you have a lot less money.

It sucks. Moral of the story: Work and photos don't mix in any way whatsoever.

e: Unless you have a contract that has been reviewed by your attorney.

Gravitom
Jul 27, 2001

Martytoof posted:

What's the best example of an electronic viewfinder you will see today?


I'm pretty sure the Fuji X100 but that's secondhand info. However I have tried the Nikon V1 and was very impressed.

ease
Jul 19, 2004

HUGE
http://eirikso.com/2011/01/04/one-year-in-one-image/

One image equals one column of pixels in this timelapse.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
Had a pretty negative experience ordering from Adorama. A friend and I went in on an order of HC-110 (I threw in some film since it's quite a bit cheaper in the US versus Japan). Due to a fuckup in their system, our Japanese zip code got chopped off, so the package got sent back to them.

Adorama immediately cannibalized our order, taking my Acros 100 out and selling it to another customer (it's now on backorder). They didn't tell us it had even been sent back until my friend asked, they were waiting on more Acros :wtc: As soon as we found out we told them to cancel the Acros (I can get it here, just costs twice as much), which they didn't refund until my friend checked and realized they hadn't credited to him. The CSR my friend was emailing was kinda rude, on top of that.

So yeah, last order I make at Adorama.

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?

Pompous Rhombus posted:

Had a pretty negative experience ordering from Adorama. A friend and I went in on an order of HC-110 (I threw in some film since it's quite a bit cheaper in the US versus Japan). Due to a fuckup in their system, our Japanese zip code got chopped off, so the package got sent back to them.

Adorama immediately cannibalized our order, taking my Acros 100 out and selling it to another customer (it's now on backorder). They didn't tell us it had even been sent back until my friend asked, they were waiting on more Acros :wtc: As soon as we found out we told them to cancel the Acros (I can get it here, just costs twice as much), which they didn't refund until my friend checked and realized they hadn't credited to him. The CSR my friend was emailing was kinda rude, on top of that.

So yeah, last order I make at Adorama.

That sucks, they've always been super nice to me. They messed up an order once but more than took care of it. Nothing beats Canons customer service though.

Shmoogy
Mar 21, 2007

Pompous Rhombus posted:

So yeah, last order I make at Adorama.

I would e-mail Helen and see what she can do for you to make things right, that's a pretty bad experience, and she usually goes above and beyond to try to get things right.

Or if you ever order from B&H you can contact Henry directly and he'll fix whatever was hosed up. I prefer B&H because when the big boss man will help you out directly, it makes me feel better about things. Although Mrebates works with Adorama :(.

burzum karaoke
May 30, 2003


Should I start stocking up on Portra and Tri-X now? :(

edit: I'm only an occasional film shooter, but goddamn is this news depressing me.

burzum karaoke fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jan 5, 2012

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

Death is nothing compared to vindication.
Buglord

aliencowboy posted:

Should I start stocking up on Portra and Tri-X now? :(

Oh god I forgot about Portra :(

You know, as much as I rag on them for all the hipster bullshit they do, would Lomography have enough money to buy some of those patents? Despite their shortcomings, they do seem passionate about analog photography.

And I'm curious what will happen to Arista Premium 400 if Kodak goes toes-up. Since it's re-branded Tri-X, would it disappear too? :\ I guess so...

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


QPZIL posted:

Oh god I forgot about Portra :(

You know, as much as I rag on them for all the hipster bullshit they do, would Lomography have enough money to buy some of those patents? Despite their shortcomings, they do seem passionate about analog photography.

And I'm curious what will happen to Arista Premium 400 if Kodak goes toes-up. Since it's re-branded Tri-X, would it disappear too? :\ I guess so...
If anything, their film patents would be snapped up by either a competitor or venture capitalist. That's way too much value to just sit on patents or let them go. Plus, chapter 11 doesn't mean they're gone, they could liquidate enough patents to stay afloat and remain as a film maker (I hope :ohdear:)_

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.
I doubt their film patents are still valid since they expire after 17 years or whatever.

East Lake
Sep 13, 2007

Why doesn't Kodak make professional cameras? They make the sensors for the M9 and high end Hasselblad's but sell nothing but zooms and crappy point and shoots? They should be where Fuji is. LG even bought their OLED tech and are realeasing razor thin HDTVs with it.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008

by Shine

East Lake posted:

Why doesn't Kodak make professional cameras? They make the sensors for the M9 and high end Hasselblad's but sell nothing but zooms and crappy point and shoots? They should be where Fuji is. LG even bought their OLED tech and are realeasing razor thin HDTVs with it.

They did, for a while, but for some reason they never took off. For some niche applications, they are actually still the choice, due to lack of IR and AA processing.

moonduck
Apr 1, 2005
a tour de force

Martytoof posted:

What's the best example of an electronic viewfinder you will see today?

The 2.1 million dot one that resides in an A77, an NEX-7 or the attachable one for an NEX-5n is the the highest resolution EVF on the market right now. It's not perfect, but it's pretty impressive and the exposure preview it provides is drat nifty.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.

Cockwhore posted:

I read an article that proclaims the coming death of the dSLR, and its replacement by mirrorless cameras. What do y'all think?

Personally, other than venturing into the EVIL thread, I know nothing about mirrorless cameras, but it seems that in a few years, assuming I can look through the viewfinder and not notice any sort of lag when I'm panning, there'd be little reason to have a big box and a mirror in my camera.

Reichstag posted:

Yeah I don't think I'm going to take the very seriously.

CarrotFlowers posted:

I like how he posts a picture that he took with a dslr as an example of why we don't need dslrs with the caption of "I took this with a dslr, but I didn't have to!" Well yeah...same could be said for any photo.


Thank you. Someone at work posted that internally earlier today and a bunch of people jumped on board in agreement. I couldn't believe how stupid some of his points were.

I laugh every time I see someone with a NEX because they inevitably are using a lens that makes their camera just as big as my 50D w/ 17-50 and twice as awkward to shoot with.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

BeastOfExmoor posted:

I laugh every time I see someone with a NEX because they inevitably are using a lens that makes their camera just as big as my 50D w/ 17-50 and twice as awkward to shoot with.

This is because the NEX has a really short register distance, so it can mount virtually any lens ever made. You can get some great lenses for cheap because no one shoots cine lenses anymore, for example.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.
The NEX also has a sensor that can run a stop or two faster than the one in the 50D.

Dread Head
Aug 1, 2005

0-#01
Pretty cool little interview on cave photography.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjVrdOT31dA

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

BeastOfExmoor posted:

Thank you. Someone at work posted that internally earlier today and a bunch of people jumped on board in agreement. I couldn't believe how stupid some of his points were.


While he may be crying "the sky is falling" way too early, the man basically pioneered HDR and is a drat smart guy with a vast knowledge of cameras, technology, and the world as a whole. He may very well have information we don't have access to (he is invited to big companies like Nikon/Google all the time). I don't see DSLRs going anywhere soon, but that guy is too smart to just cry wolf for no reason.

William T. Hornaday
Nov 26, 2007

Don't tap on the fucking glass!
I swear to god I'll cut off your fucking fingers and feed them to the otters for enrichment.

Bottom Liner posted:

the man basically pioneered HDR

That's a strike against him in my book.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007

He's trying to drive web hits and get linked around places to try and increase his audience. Taking an extreme position on something is just trying to get people to read it.

It depresses me how many of his borderline mediocre images I recognise around the internet.

Sometimes I feel like people have been spoiled by generations of competent photographers in advertisers and magazines that they sort of become invisible so eye catching techniques like hipstamatic or HDR become excessively popular because they break up the tedium of competent and "standard" photography.

Medusula
Aug 8, 2007
Ken Rockwell has a friend, he likes the 18-200 and uses it on FX, I'm out.

http://www.stuckincustoms.com/nikon-18-200-review/ read the comments and look out for Zachery Jensen's brilliant reply.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007

Medusula posted:

Ken Rockwell has a friend, he likes the 18-200 and uses it on FX, I'm out.

http://www.stuckincustoms.com/nikon-18-200-review/ read the comments and look out for Zachery Jensen's brilliant reply.

haha, I wish there was some kind of central photography authority that would beat people with billy clubs for using an 18-200 on a D3X.

8th-snype
Aug 28, 2005

My office is in the front room of a run-down 12 megapixel sensor but the rent suits me and the landlord doesn't ask many questions.

Dorkroom Short Fiction Champion 2012


Young Orc

Paragon8 posted:

haha, I wish there was some kind of central photography authority that would beat people with billy clubs for using an 18-200 on an SLR.

Fixed that for you. Why use a camera with interchangable lenses when you are just gonna slap a superzoom on there and call it a day.

BobTheCow
Dec 11, 2004

That's a thing?

Dread Head posted:

Pretty cool little interview on cave photography.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjVrdOT31dA

Other than the weird non-sequitur on government in the middle, that was pretty cool, thanks for sharing!

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Paragon8 posted:

haha, I wish there was some kind of central photography authority that would beat people with billy clubs for using an 18-200 on a D3X.

Somehow these people can justify spending bucks on a D3x but can't afford the extra bit more and get a 28-300 full frame instead of the 18-200?

milquetoast child
Jun 27, 2003

literally

HPL posted:

Somehow these people can justify spending bucks on a D3x but can't afford the extra bit more and get a 28-300 full frame instead of the 18-200?

I feel bad for having a 24-105. I want to trade it for a 24-70.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

dunkman posted:

I feel bad for having a 24-105. I want to trade it for a 24-70.

I totally would, but then again I'm a sucker for f/2.8 zooms.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Medusula posted:

Ken Rockwell has a friend, he likes the 18-200 and uses it on FX, I'm out.

I can't believe I just read this thing. The FX 28-300 costs like $100 more and he'll get full uncropped shooting :psyduck:

$100 is like the camera-dollars equivalent of twenty five cents in your pocket, especially with a D3x around your neck.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 5, 2012

Anti_Social
Jan 1, 2007

My problem is you dancing all the time
I know this is "no advice," but do any of you guys know a photographer or PPA health insurance group?

I am really struggling for new insurance, and I am having a hell of a time finding anything decent.

nonanone
Oct 25, 2007


Are you part of a professional organization? ASMP and the like have special insurance-stuff I'm pretty sure.

Anti_Social
Jan 1, 2007

My problem is you dancing all the time
I'm a member of PPA, but I haven't seen any mention of health insurance.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


PPA is lobbying for healthcare reform because lack of coverage is a big problem http://www.ppa.com/articles/131/Photographers-Speak-Out-in-Congress-on-Health-Insurance-Reform.php

Have you looked at Freelancers Union? It's not cheap but it's better than trying to get an individual rate from a major insurer.

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AIIAZNSK8ER
Dec 8, 2008


Where is your 24-70?
I have individual coverage from Anthem on a high deductible health plan and contribute to a qualified health savings account. It's more flexible than some group plans I've looked for as a sole proprietor.

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