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Nilbop posted:I've only read Only You Can Save Mankind (in primary school, in 1994, oh Jesus) and it had some great chapters. It was incredibly dated, being centred around a videogame as it was. And it was invested very well in the world of gamers and to an extent programmers, but the game was Space Invaders in complexity. More like Space Invaders mixed with TIE Fighter, something like that. It's clear reading it that Pratchett knew/knows his poo poo when it comes to games, it's just that stuff like the fake manual and system requirements for the game in question at the beginning of the book no longer apply at all. And the reams of film references are probably a bit beyond most kids today - even though it's all stuff like Aliens, I'd wager most 10-year-olds nowadays aren't particularly aware of 80s action/sci-fi. I never saw the TV adaptations of either Johnny and the Dead or Johnny and the Bomb, but both books are excellent. Johnny and the Dead has some of Pratchett's best comic writing, I think.
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Jan 3, 2012 12:57
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John Charity Spring posted:I never saw the TV adaptations of either Johnny and the Dead or Johnny and the Bomb, but both books are excellent. Johnny and the Dead has some of Pratchett's best comic writing, I think. Johnny and the Bomb also has some of the funniest, most authentically "teenage bickering" bits Pratchett has ever written in the sequences where the kids time travel in the shopping centre and instead of marveling in wonder at it all immediately start arguing about the most inconsequential aspects of the whole business. Me and my sister still make reference to "fridge molecules" whenever they start talking about physics/time travel on the news.
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Jan 3, 2012 22:46
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Good Omens is one of my favorite books of all time, but I have never read anything else by either author. Can someone who is familiar with both of them tell me how much of the book is Pratchett and how much of it Gaiman, and specifically what elements? I'm trying to get a feel of whose style/themes/ideas/prose of the two I'd enjoy reading more of.
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Jan 4, 2012 02:18
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Joramun posted:Good Omens is one of my favorite books of all time, but I have never read anything else by either author. Can someone who is familiar with both of them tell me how much of the book is Pratchett and how much of it Gaiman, and specifically what elements? I'm trying to get a feel of whose style/themes/ideas/prose of the two I'd enjoy reading more of. They've said themselves that they can no longer tell the difference entirely. For Gaiman you could do worse than picking up some short stories like the collection "Smoke & Mirrors" or for something a little lighter "The Graveyard Book". Pratchett in general is a lot more farcical and punny to Gaiman's mysticism and allusion if that helps any.
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Jan 4, 2012 02:25
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Joramun posted:Good Omens is one of my favorite books of all time, but I have never read anything else by either author. Can someone who is familiar with both of them tell me how much of the book is Pratchett and how much of it Gaiman, and specifically what elements? I'm trying to get a feel of whose style/themes/ideas/prose of the two I'd enjoy reading more of. Their styles are pretty similar. Pratchett tends to go a little more towards silly/satirical/parody and Gaiman tends to go a little more towards serious/grimdark/allusion, but not too much. I personally prefer Pratchett - pick up Small Gods next and pretty soon you'll agree with me.
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Jan 4, 2012 02:29
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I just finished up with Snuff (Christmas present) and man, it was fantastic. That ending was perfect, and once the book got rolling I couldn't stand to put it down. I do have one question, though...Why was there that unggue pot in the cigar Colon got?
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Jan 4, 2012 03:28
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Polaron posted:I do have one question, though...Why was there that unggue pot in the cigar Colon got? I was fuzzy on the details, but either they were smuggling the cigars and the unggue pots in the the same containers, or they were using legitimate cigar transport to hide the smuggled unggue pots.
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Jan 4, 2012 03:43
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Polaron posted:I just finished up with Snuff (Christmas present) and man, it was fantastic. That ending was perfect, and once the book got rolling I couldn't stand to put it down. I thought it was an act of desperation on the part of the creator of said uggue pot who hoped that it would somehow reach a female goblin somewhere due to the realisation that all the goblins on the plantation were going to snuff it
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Jan 4, 2012 04:09
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Nine of Eight posted:I thought it was an act of desperation on the part of the creator of said uggue pot who hoped that it would somehow reach a female goblin somewhere due to the realisation that all the goblins on the plantation were going to snuff it That's how I read it.
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Jan 4, 2012 05:43
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I just finished the book and the most interesting detail to me was the lack of Death. Perhaps Pratchett feels uncomfortable writing about Him now that his own mortality is coming? I wonder if The Summoning Dark's defeat back in Thud! is a roundabout way of showing death itself now bewares Vimes? Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jan 5, 2012 |
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Jan 5, 2012 17:02
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Mister Roboto posted:I just finished the book and the most interesting detail to me was the lack of Death.  I did not loving notice that until you pointed it out. Now I have a feeling that it's going to really bother me. Has that ever happened in a mainstream Discworld book before? (Also, your spoiler tag seems rather superfluous to me given that anyone can infer its contents from the rest of your post)
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Jan 5, 2012 20:37
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Death wasn't in Wee Free Men either. Didn't actually notice Death being absent to be honest, surprising that one. Ed: Found my old hardcover copy of The Fifth Elephant earlier too. IT'S BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINITY PRINCIPLE. 'What's that?' I'M NOT SURE. 
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Jan 5, 2012 21:17
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Joramun posted:Can someone who is familiar with both of them tell me how much of the book is Pratchett and how much of it Gaiman, and specifically what elements?
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Jan 5, 2012 21:24
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Presto posted:Gaiman did the part about the maggots. That's all I know for sure. Generally Gaiman will have done anything gross, anything about strong female characters, and anything that hammers you over the head with the Angels Are Demons Are Angels bit. Just about anything funny was Terry. God I really shouldn't have read Sandman.
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Jan 5, 2012 21:41
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Forty pages into Snuff right now and it's depressing the hell out of me. The narration and dialogue alike is a rambling, wandering, patchwork mess, especially with Willikins and Vetinari, who usually prefer to speak through implication and understatement but here are firing off monologues of a girth I don't remember ever seeing in any of his books prior. The characters as a result feel more like walking word dispensaries than characters, and as for the narration, it's clotted with so many asides and flavor phrases (hate to say it, must be said, don't you know) that some sentences feel like they're wheezing by the time they reach a full stop. I guess this is a consequence of Pratchett's condition and writing the book mostly through dictation, but I was hoping it wouldn't be this pronounced. Does some of the fat start dropping off as it goes on? I'm going to finish it anyway, but it would be nice to know if it eventually finds its legs. e: also, this is more subjective, but I really don't like his sudden laser-like focus on Willikins' delinquent history. He spent the whole series as a meticulously high-class and subservient gentleman who would only bust out his street talents where absolutely necessary, and now he's strolling and chatting with Vimes like they're schoolyard mates. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 5, 2012 |
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Jan 5, 2012 23:46
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Nilbop posted:Generally Gaiman will have done anything gross, anything about strong female characters, and anything that hammers you over the head with the Angels Are Demons Are Angels bit. Just about anything funny was Terry.
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Jan 6, 2012 11:13
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Oxxidation posted:I guess this is a consequence of Pratchett's condition and writing the book mostly through dictation, but I was hoping it wouldn't be this pronounced. I agree. And I believe I commented on this some pages ago...I think his editors are no longer capable of doing their jobs. Not as a criticism, either--I think they can't be as vicious with the cutting on someone who they've worked with for years and is clearly suffering and wants to just be happy in his remaining life. Snuff and UA both were decent, but suffered terribly from the lack of editing. Several cuts should have been made in the monologues and general mistakes should have been caught.
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Jan 6, 2012 13:44
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FactsAreUseless posted:Read Anansi Boys. It's like American gods but not 200 pages too long, and it has an actual sense of humor. Easily Gaiman's best book. Anansi Boys is indeed excellent. And much milder than American Gods too - all the sex and swearing and violence is toned right down. I think Pratchett had most of the actual writing duties for Good Omens, purely due to logistics, but they each re-wrote various bits throughout the novel and had lots of back and forth input on ideas and so on.
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Jan 6, 2012 20:14
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Good Omens always felt like a book of Gaiman's ideas written by Pratchett. Which is frankly about as good as a book gets, as far as I'm concerned. I don't dare pick up snuff after UA. Like people say UA wasn't bad overall, but there were some terrible bits in it.
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Jan 6, 2012 22:22
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Everything people have brought up about Snuff and UA irked me as well. It feels like high-grade fanfiction in parts and has lost all sense of timing and spatialty - Does this take place in the span of a week or a month? Where exactly are we? I never had these problems with the older books. And Wilkins suddenly embracing his gutter roots? Every other time we've seen the character, he's been keeping all of that under lock and key. It's basically what made the character more than a throw-away name! It's so incredibly tragic that someone whose so skilled at written wit has had that talent stolen from him prematurely.
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Jan 7, 2012 00:59
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Paxicon posted:Everything people have brought up about Snuff and UA irked me as well. It feels like high-grade fanfiction in parts and has lost all sense of timing and spatialty - Does this take place in the span of a week or a month? Where exactly are we? I never had these problems with the older books. And Wilkins suddenly embracing his gutter roots? Every other time we've seen the character, he's been keeping all of that under lock and key. It's basically what made the character more than a throw-away name! Now, I'll agree it wasn't the best Discworld book (like saying it's not quite the sparkliest diamond - it's still a pretty good book), but these two complaints in particular irk me. I never had any trouble figuring out the timing of the events - it takes place over the course of roughly a week; that was perfectly clear, in my opinion. And as for Willikins - your complaint seems to be "a relatively minor character became a major character and received more characterization," which hardly seems like a complaint to me. He's always behaved differently depending on whether he's in the general vicinity of Sybil, so I never really saw his behavior in Snuff, where he spends a lot of time away from Sybil, unlike previous books, as a drastic personality change.
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Jan 7, 2012 01:15
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I've come to terms that Going Postal was Pratchett's peak. It's fortunate that I adore Going Postal.
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Jan 7, 2012 01:16
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Pope Guilty posted:I've come to terms that Going Postal was Pratchett's peak. Making Money does it even more, but Going Postal is actually good, where Making Money is terrible. Edit: Night Watch was, by every standard, the peak of Pratchett's writing ability.
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Jan 7, 2012 03:30
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I'm thinking of trying to read some Pratchett books. Uhh, what type of person enjoys these books? I'm not really into sci-fi or fantasy but I like well written books that are outside of the norm.
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Jan 7, 2012 03:59
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If you like a sharp wit, Python-like non-sequiturs and a growing fascination with the workings of a pre-industrial city imposed on the background of a farcical but workable magical world then this is for you.
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Jan 7, 2012 04:27
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Kontradaz posted:I'm thinking of trying to read some Pratchett books. Uhh, what type of person enjoys these books? I'm not really into sci-fi or fantasy but I like well written books that are outside of the norm. See above, for the most part; Pratchett's work isn't really easy to describe and it can vary slightly from book to book. If you need recommendations on where to start, (Small Gods is my personal starter recommendation) there's quite a few starting from here
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Jan 7, 2012 04:33
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FactsAreUseless posted:For me, Going Postal represents the biggest change to Pratchett's writing style. Like everyone complains that the more recent stuff doesn't "seem" like Pratchett, but Going Postal was a massive departure. All that stuff about the heavily stylized narration and monologues that was complained about above? Going Postal has all of that. I'm okay with the style of Going Postal because it seems to me to fit what he's doing with the book. Night Watch is close behind GP in my affections.
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Jan 7, 2012 05:50
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I've just discovered Pratchett's short stories. There's some pretty good lines in there, especially in "Turntables of the Night".quote:OH, I'VE GOT THEM ALL, he said, turning back to Wayne, ELVIS PRESLEY, BUDDY HOLLY, JIM MORRISON, JIMI HENDRIX, JOHN LENNON ...
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Jan 7, 2012 17:19
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DontMockMySmock posted:And as for Willikins - your complaint seems to be "a relatively minor character became a major character and received more characterization," which hardly seems like a complaint to me. He's always behaved differently depending on whether he's in the general vicinity of Sybil, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you there. I think Willikins (That's right, I spoiled it!  ) is at his best in Jingo. He maintains the stiff butler veneer around Vimes at all times, but when his squad ambushes the guards in the desert and he isn't aware of Vimes presence, you get the first hint of this other side of him which I at least saw him still trying to keep under wraps. Sybil wasn't anywhere in the area for that part of Jingo.Even under pressure, like in Thud when the Dwarves home-invade the Ramkin Estate, Willikins reacts like a brutish street-fighter - But he maintains the 'stiff upper lip' demeanor even after shivving someone with an icepick. To me it's all a play on the old english class system, where he is fighting his social inferiority complex by desperately keeping up some sort of standard of behavior. And it feels like in Snuff, he just throws that out the window. I just think it would have been so much funnier as well as true to his characterization to have him be Vimes goon-enforcer as the old, stiff butler-personality rather than what we got? The transition just makes absolutely no sense to me. TL;DR I care too much about Willikins.
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Jan 8, 2012 13:39
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I think this story was an attempt to show that Willikins and Vimes ARE good friends now and they've evolved past the master-butler relationship. I don't mind that part. Yes, Willikins is a bit of a Gary Stu badass now, but since he was minor before it doesn't contradict anything. Since this is a Vimes story, it's about Vimes and his close friends. If anything it's the Watch's role that was the most awkward.
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Jan 9, 2012 09:10
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Kontradaz posted:I'm thinking of trying to read some Pratchett books. Uhh, what type of person enjoys these books? I'm not really into sci-fi or fantasy but I like well written books that are outside of the norm. It helps to not think of Discworld books as "fantasy" books, as in books about dwarfs and elves and dragons and things, but as police procedurals or adventure stories that just happen to feature wizards and trolls. Contrast with Tolkien's pages upon pages of set dressing and tedious poetry.
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Jan 10, 2012 02:25
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One of the things that sets Discworld apart is that Pratchett deals with mundane things really well. I would have to say one of my favorite passages is in Night Watch, where there is several pages of exposition about how a conflict between the government of Ankh-Morpork and rebel forces will impact food distribution throughout the city. Most fantasy books would completely ignore this, mainly because the authors think it would be boring, but Pratchett utterly knocks it out of the park.
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Jan 10, 2012 17:58
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Konstantin posted:One of the things that sets Discworld apart is that Pratchett deals with mundane things really well. I would have to say one of my favorite passages is in Night Watch, where there is several pages of exposition about how a conflict between the government of Ankh-Morpork and rebel forces will impact food distribution throughout the city. Most fantasy books would completely ignore this, mainly because the authors think it would be boring, but Pratchett utterly knocks it out of the park. In this line, I seem to remember an interview with Terry where somebody asked him for advice on world-building. His reply was that, for a city, you should start with how the waste gets out and build up from there.
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Jan 10, 2012 18:08
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John Charity Spring posted:It's clear reading it that Pratchett knew/knows his poo poo when it comes to games, As well he should. His daughter Rhianna freelanced for PC Zone for a number of years, and she also wrote the story for Mirror's Edge. Is anyone else looking forward to The Long Earth, Pterry's hard SF project with Stephen Baxter? It's out in June.
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Jan 10, 2012 23:49
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Konstantin posted:One of the things that sets Discworld apart is that Pratchett deals with mundane things really well. I would have to say one of my favorite passages is in Night Watch, where there is several pages of exposition about how a conflict between the government of Ankh-Morpork and rebel forces will impact food distribution throughout the city. Most fantasy books would completely ignore this, mainly because the authors think it would be boring, but Pratchett utterly knocks it out of the park. I'll go one further - this is one of Pterry's defining passages. Once you've read it it's just impossible to get out of your head and it makes perfect sense. It just utterly breaks down any concept of symbolic glory or idealism in violent unrest (and the crushing of it) in a very funny and very logical way and perfectly encapsulates both his idea of how the world should work and how it does work.
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Jan 10, 2012 23:54
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John Charity Spring posted:It's clear reading it that Pratchett knew/knows his poo poo when it comes to games, "Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..." The Pratchett Quote File
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Jan 11, 2012 01:53
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God I love reading through that bit on the L-Space website every few years.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:57
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Jedit posted:Is anyone else looking forward to The Long Earth, Pterry's hard SF project with Stephen Baxter? It's out in June. Id never heard of this before but now Im VERY much looking forward to it!
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Jan 12, 2012 22:58
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Staggy posted:In this line, I seem to remember an interview with Terry where somebody asked him for advice on world-building. His reply was that, for a city, you should start with how the waste gets out and build up from there. I remember it being phrased as "how the water gets in and the poo poo gets out".
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Jan 14, 2012 01:49
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Tarezax posted:I remember it being phrased as "how the water gets in and the poo poo gets out". Does every city have a King of the Golden River?
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Jan 14, 2012 02:06
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