|
50 Foot Ant posted:Don't forget that Blackrazor was intelligent, drank souls, and got hungry, and the hungrier it got the higher the ego score got. Were there ego scores in the original White Plume Mountain? Because that rule right there is probably the single most retarded rule in the whole drat third edition. Intelligent Items SHOULD be really cool and desirable. They SHOULD be loads of fun. But some moron decided to add this to the Ego section: "A weapon with an Ego score of 20 or higher always considers itself superior to its wielder." ...And then nobody ever wanted to use a smart sword again, because even a Lawful Good Sword of Righteousness would see you as an incompetent insect to be used and abused. Good thing somebody came up with Weapons of Legacy down the line so that special weapons could be a thing without stupid rules getting in the way.
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 00:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 13:53 |
|
|
Ego rules could work, I think? It's REALLY dependent on the circumstances though, both the item, ego, and how the DM typecasts it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 01:18
|
|
|
For an evil or puny item, yes. But if you want a good-aligned AND highly enchanted intelligent item, you're poo poo outta luck. Really, it's probably the one rule I'd ask a DM to ignore if it's at all going to be a factor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 02:06
|
|
|
Mechanics that place a PC under GM control, even temporarily, are always very tricky. There's a certain amount of agency you want your PCs to never lose, but at the same time these sorts of things come up and can be important. Intelligent item egos, unless the item is very plot-centric, might be easy to ignore, but possession, infernal bargains, enchantment spells, and sometimes even the direct will of gods or other greater beings can't always be blithely ignored. Of course, like most things, the best solution is to talk to the affected player(s) out of game and make sure you're working together to make something that's interesting, has consequences where necessary, and doesn't take the player out of the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 02:12
|
|
|
50 Foot Ant posted:Don't forget that Blackrazor was intelligent, drank souls, and got hungry, and the hungrier it got the higher the ego score got. So...Stormbringer reference then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 03:01
|
|
|
veekie posted:So...Stormbringer reference then. Yep, all but explicitly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 09:30
|
|
|
...
Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 21:17
|
|
|
50 Foot Ant posted:You do realize that the Ego score for intelligent items was introduced all the way back in 1E, right? Ego, yes, but my complaint isn't Ego but the whole "the item always, always sees you as an insect regardless of alignment" thing. Isn't that more recent?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 21:43
|
|
|
Transient People posted:Ego, yes, but my complaint isn't Ego but the whole "the item always, always sees you as an insect regardless of alignment" thing. Isn't that more recent? Nope, intelligent items have always been utter dicks. See here (scroll down).
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 21:47
|
|
|
Well, in that case I stand corrected! Allow me to amend, then: having automatically dickish intelligent items is probably the single most retarded rule introduced since the dawn of D&D.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 21:51
|
|
|
...
Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 22:55
|
|
|
"Automatically thinks it's superior" doesn't necessarily mean "treats the wielder like an ant". A high-ego LG holy avenger could think of the paladin wielding it as his valued comrade and sidekick, while a neutral Dagger Of The Master Thieves or whatever could see its wielder as an apprentice to be guided along.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 22:58
|
|
|
50 Foot Ant posted:I've found that it's easier to just make them NPC's. I could have sworn there was an example detailing exactly this. It involved will saves and potential mindrape.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 23:04
|
|
|
Benly posted:"Automatically thinks it's superior" doesn't necessarily mean "treats the wielder like an ant". A high-ego LG holy avenger could think of the paladin wielding it as his valued comrade and sidekick, while a neutral Dagger Of The Master Thieves or whatever could see its wielder as an apprentice to be guided along. If compatible with a player--and if you're making your own adventures for your party, of course you'll want to gear it toward their characters--it also leaves a lot of room for RP, too, like even just a DM running a conversation between a sassy Chaotic Neutral bow playfully being a dick to the mentally-challenged Ninja wielding it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 23:08
|
|
|
Transient People posted:Well, in that case I stand corrected! Allow me to amend, then: having automatically dickish intelligent items is probably the single most retarded rule introduced since the dawn of D&D. Yeah it seems like a lot of those rules were to set in stone a personality for the intelligent items, but I never saw a use for them. Just be the item as the DM and the player will understand what it's like and what it wants. A funny story regarding this is one of the first 3rd edition games I ran in which a druid in the party was obsessed with casting Awakening on every animal or tree he came across. Awakening takes an animal and gives it normal Intelligence and Wisdom, then even gives it a class at random. I told him that it was fine if he wanted to do that, but because the animals he was trying to get to join the party would be full party members, they would get a cut of the xp and some would want treasure. He was cool with this but the party had an archer that was using a winged snake familiar to pump out poison for his arrows. He wanted to animal Awakened so that it's poison would become stronger faster and so that it could maybe cast spells or help out otherwise, in addition to getting more shares of the treasure because it's still his familiar and would happily "lend" him the money. So the Druid Awakens it and it turns out to be a Paladin. So the archer is somewhat annoyed, but glad that the snake can help in combat sometimes beyond just poisoning arrows. However, all the animals he had awakened had a unique personality, and I decided that this Paladin would be the moral compass of the group. Whenever they would stray a little too far from Neutral into dark territory, he would speak up and get generally pissy with them, usually because they wanted to screw someone over or stiff him on loot. He always wanted to give his share of the treasure away to the needy, so the party ended up giving him dumb stuff like (ironically) Rings of Animal Friendship to sell for the poor. He was getting annoyed with the party's actions and the way they snubbed him on loot and he kept saying that it was fine, he'd keep accepting the trinkets but one day something he really wanted would come along and because he hadn't gotten anything he should get it. The party brushed him off and said whatever. One day a Cloak of Charisma +6 dropped and he really wanted it so that he could Lay on Tail more times per day and so that the people he was trying to help wouldn't run from him. He just wanted to be loved and not some second class citizen. The party's Sorcerer looked at him and just said "no." The snake looked up at his master for him to intervene, but he shook his head. What happened after that is kind of foggy, I think he asked the archer to allow him out of his familiar pact so that he may leave the party in peace, which the archer wouldn't do because he wanted the poison. The snake started intimidating the Sorcerer by slithering up while he was sleeping and worming his way into the cape or not allowing him to rest by scaring him. I want to say they eventually let him leave or he died because they wouldn't carry him up into the Rope Trick. Wow after typing that out, that's a really lovely story and I'm a terrible GM.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 23:09
|
|
|
Sounds more like you had either lovely, or alignment committed players to me. Probably the former.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 23:12
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:If compatible with a player--and if you're making your own adventures for your party, of course you'll want to gear it toward their characters--it also leaves a lot of room for RP, too, like even just a DM running a conversation between a sassy Chaotic Neutral bow playfully being a dick to the mentally-challenged Ninja wielding it. ...which actually reminds me that there's an intelligent item in the game I'm GMing now (yeah, I make connections great.  ) One of the PCs is a magus with the Black Blade archetype who gets advice from his sword regularly. The sword can speak telepathically, but only to him, and the magus has to reply out loud to speak. He's also a relative newcomer to the party, so the other PCs still aren't quite sure whether he's actually got an ancient artifact of great power or he's just a loon with sword-and-spell training. Good times.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2012 23:26
|
|
|
Benly posted:...which actually reminds me that there's an intelligent item in the game I'm GMing now (yeah, I make connections great. I've actually got one of these Black Blade Maguses (Magi?) in my Carrion Crown game too. The player was asking me what it's name was and the other player's started yelling out suggestions. Someone yelled out 'Boris' and then someone else said something about how all the names we were suggesting were guy-names so I swiftly decided the sword was named Nastasha and she speaks with a thick Russian accent. It's actually kind of setting-appropriate since Ustalav is all Eastern Europeany. I need to get better at remembering she's there though to hassle the Magus or make some one-liner when they critical shocking grasp for 10d6+10 or whatever crazy damage for level 4 he's doing (with a scimitar so this comes up fairly often and will get worse once the player can start adding keen to his sword in a few levels, but oh well).
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 01:53
|
|
|
smashthedean posted:I've actually got one of these Black Blade Maguses (Magi?) in my Carrion Crown game too. The player was asking me what it's name was and the other player's started yelling out suggestions. Someone yelled out 'Boris' and then someone else said something about how all the names we were suggesting were guy-names so I swiftly decided the sword was named Nastasha and she speaks with a thick Russian accent. It's actually kind of setting-appropriate since Ustalav is all Eastern Europeany. I need to get better at remembering she's there though to hassle the Magus or make some one-liner when they critical shocking grasp for 10d6+10 or whatever crazy damage for level 4 he's doing (with a scimitar so this comes up fairly often and will get worse once the player can start adding keen to his sword in a few levels, but oh well). Out of curiosity, does Nastasha have an insane Weapon Lore skill?
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 02:05
|
|
|
GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:snake stuff That's pretty fun and shows serious commitment to your players.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 02:07
|
|
|
...
Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 07:41
|
|
|
The only problem with the snake stuff is some players come from the point of view that facets of a character's class belong to that character and shouldn't be hosed with by a DM, for instance a DM shouldn't turn a druid companion evil and against the party or stuff like that. While I don't think that'd be a problem in 50 Foot Ant's case it's a good idea to bring up stuff like that ahead of time by saying stuff like 'How you act is going to have consequences on your friends, allies, and enemies' so the players will have a heads-up. It sounds bad rear end though, really.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 07:51
|
|
|
Anyone keen for a pathfinder pbp? I've had some ideas floating around in my head for a while.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 07:54
|
|
|
Something tells me you might find some interest. (And I'm totally going to show you guys fighters are totally as good as barbarians okay  )
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 07:57
|
|
|
Lord Yod posted:The only problem with the snake stuff is some players come from the point of view that facets of a character's class belong to that character and shouldn't be hosed with by a DM, for instance a DM shouldn't turn a druid companion evil and against the party or stuff like that. While I don't think that'd be a problem in 50 Foot Ant's case it's a good idea to bring up stuff like that ahead of time by saying stuff like 'How you act is going to have consequences on your friends, allies, and enemies' so the players will have a heads-up. Well, class facets I generally figure, are free game, as long as you don't overdo it. It loses impact when you do it too much, and if the player didn't initiate it, not to charge them for it(waive the costs somehow).
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 09:55
|
|
|
In general I agree with anything that makes the game more fun/cool/compelling to play, and if you're going to take the step to awaken your animal companion then you're going to need to accept the consequences for it. But on some level it's akin to setting up an adventure against a force of neutral adversaries when you've got a paladin in your group - you're negating something that makes the class what it is, and detracting from that character's ability to contribute. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm just saying that you probably shouldn't go willy-nilly with it, and especially not without informing the players about how the world works.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 12:14
|
|
|
bowmore posted:Anyone keen for a pathfinder pbp? I've had some ideas floating around in my head for a while. Yes. Double yes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 14:40
|
|
|
Lord Yod posted:The only problem with the snake stuff is some players come from the point of view that facets of a character's class belong to that character and shouldn't be hosed with by a DM, for instance a DM shouldn't turn a druid companion evil and against the party or stuff like that. Oh, I agree with this, I think what irked me at the time was that there was no real RP or in-game reason for Awakening the snake, it was just a metagame thing so that it's poison would get stronger faster. Up to that point, his familiar had largely been an accessory that rarely came into play if it was mentioned at all. Before we rolled and got his class I let him know that this was another party member that would have his own goals, and he was cool with it until we rolled for it's class and it came up as a Paladin that didn't like all the double dealing and cold blooded poo poo the party was doing. Ant, you can steal whatever you want. Your stories in the Worst Experiences thread made my days.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 15:56
|
|
|
I'd be interested, but I've never done a pbp, if you'd be willing to help guide me through it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 17:44
|
|
|
Transient People posted:Out of curiosity, does Nastasha have an insane Weapon Lore skill? Not yet, but maybe in the future. I really need to start playing her personality up more. bowmore posted:Anyone keen for a pathfinder pbp? I've had some ideas floating around in my head for a while. I'd be into this. I've PbP'd a bit on the Paizo boards, but got burned out after a while. I have a feeling it would be easier here though since I'm here every day anyway and I have a feeling goons would be more fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 17:58
|
|
|
Also interested in a SA PbP. There was a recruiting thread for a We-Be Goblins game a while back, but nothing ever came of it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2012 22:09
|
|
|
I'd love to do a Pathfinder Pbp on here- just link the recruitment thread on here and sounds like it'll fill up fast : )
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 00:03
|
|
|
GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:Oh, I agree with this, I think what irked me at the time was that there was no real RP or in-game reason for Awakening the snake, it was just a metagame thing so that it's poison would get stronger faster. Up to that point, his familiar had largely been an accessory that rarely came into play if it was mentioned at all. Before we rolled and got his class I let him know that this was another party member that would have his own goals, and he was cool with it until we rolled for it's class and it came up as a Paladin that didn't like all the double dealing and cold blooded poo poo the party was doing. Yeah, you just had lovely players, what you did sounds awesome. The fact that the players just wanted a free bonus and then got pissy when the situation that you warned them might happen, happened, instead of playing it out, tells me they were just a bunch of nerds who mistook having a powerful character for being worthwhile people. A non-socially/emotionally-stunted RPer (rare as they are) would realize that by playing the scenario out in an interesting way, they'd probably end up with better rewards than they would by trying to outwit or "beat" the omnipotent and omniscient arbiter of the worlds their characters inhabit. Oh yeah, and everybody would have more fun. That awakening everything in sight thing actually sounds really cool if it wasn't done by a party of dingbats. Also, I don't know if you had a different copy of the spell, but the snake shouldn't have had to ask to be released from being a familiar according to this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 00:34
|
|
|
Alright! As soon as I have a thread up and running I'll post the link here as well as the recruitment thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 02:31
|
|
|
bowmore posted:Alright! As soon as I have a thread up and running I'll post the link here as well as the recruitment thread. If I can get in on this, I enjoy playing front row wizards, if your setting allows for casters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 04:21
|
|
|
2 li'l anecdotes: I DMed City of the Spider Queen a while back, towards the end of 3.0, and we had a rogue/ranger/spellfire wielder guy in the group who mostly fought in melee. I rewarded something he did with him finding a black-bladed longsword named Waela Jaluk (some drow translator at the time said it meant 'foolish male'), who was a former drow weapon master shape-changed into a sword. This sword was fairly powerful, but it could mainly only ensure it's own survival. I.e., it had Heal as a spell, but it only affected itself, meaning if it got damaged it could fix itself. It had teleport, but the range was 'away from harm' and only affected the sword. And it's mission was 'destroy all other intelligent items.' Generally, was a funny, if a bit snide, companion. Though obviously evil, it treated its wielder as a pupil and was fairly fine with being wielded by a non-drow, since drow had done this to it in the first place. It only used its teleportation ability to get out of damage (rust monster/annihilator thing and some kind of ooze) like twice, and honestly was right outside the door of the room with the monster, just waiting for the rogue to pick him up again. When he finally did get hit, he healed himself, and asked the rogue to kill anyone daring enough to attack him. The only time he ever EGO'd the rogue was when the rogue dared to not attack a high priestess's intelligent snake-headed whip. The party got to watch the rogue go all zombie-eyes and then just hack away at her weapon until the sword (not the rogue) finally stopped screaming. Good times. He even apologized, in his own sort of better-than-you way. 2nd thing: In a Pathfinder game we're playing now, the party Magus has the black blade template. Seeing that the blade can be any type of one-handed slashing weapon, he took the Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Dwarven Waraxe and picked it. Now he has a gigantic waraxe, named Beard, who is essentially a dwarven slayer from Warhammer in axe form. The thing just wants to fight. The thing is, only a Magi can tell what kind of awesome thing Beard is. To everyone else, it looks like the most pitted, scarred, rusty piece of poo poo axe we've ever laid eyes on. Beard understands this and just wants to be a good looking dwarf again, and sometimes pushes our Magus towards doing things to put him on that path.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 12:16
|
|
|
wellwhoopdedooo posted:the snake shouldn't have had to ask to be released from being a familiar according to this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken Huh, that's something we missed then! Thanks for pointing it out, I think we either forgot all about it or had to adjudicate it because he was already a familiar when it was cast and I went the other direction.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2012 15:25
|
|
|
I'm just getting back into nerdy stuff that I used to love and it looks like Pathfinder will be the rpg for me. I've found what looks to be a cool local game store that has multiple games going on on a set schedule. However, cash flow is a problem these days, so i'd have no problem dropping 10 bux on the pdf, fitty bones is out of the question. So to my point, generally whats the etiquette on this? I'm playing in this dudes store and actively going out of my way to not give him money. Is it accepted? Or am I going to get dirty looks pulling out my tablet with the pdf on it? I don't wanna be a douche bag here...
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2012 04:15
|
|
|
Typically, it's looked at as pretty fine. However, you should still support the store you're playing at, so I'd say to do something like buy the mini that represents your guy there or something. Just something to show them you are a customer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2012 04:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 13:53 |
|
|
Swags posted:Typically, it's looked at as pretty fine. However, you should still support the store you're playing at, so I'd say to do something like buy the mini that represents your guy there or something. Just something to show them you are a customer. Yeah, I'm gonna try MTG again and bought my cards there and some Warmachine stuff. I jusdt can't rationalize $10 vs $50.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2012 04:55
|
|