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Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

We just finished interviewing candidates for COO of our company. Let me just give everyone in the thread a little advice: Don't be hostile during your interview. It doesn't make you seem like a good leader, it just makes you seem like you're going to make life a living hell for everyone.

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Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Appachai posted:

We just finished interviewing candidates for COO of our company. Let me just give everyone in the thread a little advice: Don't be hostile during your interview. It doesn't make you seem like a good leader, it just makes you seem like you're going to make life a living hell for everyone.

Please tell me you made fun of that jackass during the interview.

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

Solkanar512 posted:

Please tell me you made fun of that jackass during the interview.

No, I let her piss everyone off so that there will be 0 chance of her getting the position.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
E.L couldn't get me in before their winter closure with everyone taking vacations, etc, so I'm interviewing with them on the first day back next year.

I think I'm going to relax for a few weeks and not go crazy about job applications. Merry Christmas, folks! :)

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, but good luck.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
I recently switched jobs within my company (I'm the LIMS guy) to become a technical trainer. Maybe one day I'll get to meet someone from SA in a training class hah.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Appachai posted:

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, but good luck.

Nah - not so much that as that pretty much every company I'm strongly interested in closes for Dec 24-Jan 1. End of year slows down soooo much for hiring in December, and I'm sitting comfortably on my severance package for at least six to eight more months. (Truthfully, far longer than 8 months if I needed to. My lease expires in March one way or another, and I cannot renew it or sign anywhere else without a job [can't get an apartment here without a job], so I'm in a relative's basement no matter what. Reduced rent from living at home = that severance lasts pretty much forever.)

Doing a little daily hunting, but not doing my usual 6-8 hour job hunt day until after Christmas. Not much point when nobody's even posting openings. :)

I've been messing with LinkedIn Jobs as it picks up steam, and it has one nifty feature that I haven't seen before: when the recruiter picks your application to read, it e-mails you and lets you know that (Company X) is viewing your application. Kinda cool!

Edit:

The big thing is that I'm just plain not worried yet. :) I barely have to touch my severance due to unemployment compensation as it is.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003

Sundae posted:

I've been messing with LinkedIn Jobs as it picks up steam, and it has one nifty feature that I haven't seen before: when the recruiter picks your application to read, it e-mails you and lets you know that (Company X) is viewing your application. Kinda cool!

That is an awesome new feature that they did not have when I used it during my job search in September of '10. I got 3 job offers using LinkedIn jobs, two on the same day, and one after I accepted my current position.

Granted, I am/was entry level and don't have an impressive skill set. Previously all I had going for me was proficiency with SalesForce.com and major experience in cold calling. For you science types with actual skills LinkedIn jobs might not be the best method but I had amazing success with it.

Gimperial
Oct 5, 2006

And then there was silence...

Anyone have any experience getting lab jobs in the UK with no experience per se? (Just graduated with an MSc)

Zenzirouj
Jun 10, 2004

What about you, thread?
You got any tricks?
I've spent the past couple weeks working a temporary job for the CDC, which I got through OnAssignment's Lab Support. There are a couple things I'm wondering about, mainly what the best way is to notate on a resume that it was a temp job and that I didn't get fired after 3 weeks. The other question being whether I can get away with saying I worked for the CDC or if I need to specify that the place (a cryo lab) is contracted out to ATCC.

iloverice
Feb 19, 2007

future tv ninja
For every job I list on my resume, I also include my official title which I think clarifies things enough. As far as your employer, I would go with the CDC while also noting the lab you are in. Here is what I would do:
code:
Center for Disease Control - ATTC Cryogenics Laboratory          Nov. 2011 - Dec. 2011
Temporary Lab Monkey
If they want/need any more info, they'll ask in an interview.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Lyon posted:

That is an awesome new feature that they did not have when I used it during my job search in September of '10. I got 3 job offers using LinkedIn jobs, two on the same day, and one after I accepted my current position.

Granted, I am/was entry level and don't have an impressive skill set. Previously all I had going for me was proficiency with SalesForce.com and major experience in cold calling. For you science types with actual skills LinkedIn jobs might not be the best method but I had amazing success with it.

I'm actually seeing a LOT of science-related jobs on LinkedIn, especially on the networking groups. The AAPS group is basically a job-spam board now of pharma crap. There's a lot on that site now.

I don't understand WHY that site took off like it did (I think it's basically a load of trash), but it did, so I use it. :)

Zenzirouj
Jun 10, 2004

What about you, thread?
You got any tricks?

iloverice posted:

For every job I list on my resume, I also include my official title which I think clarifies things enough. As far as your employer, I would go with the CDC while also noting the lab you are in. Here is what I would do:
code:
Center for Disease Control - ATTC Cryogenics Laboratory          Nov. 2011 - Dec. 2011
Temporary Lab Monkey
If they want/need any more info, they'll ask in an interview.

Yeah, this looks good. Mainly wanted to make sure that there wasn't some special resume protocol for that kind of thing.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Zenzirouj posted:

Yeah, this looks good. Mainly wanted to make sure that there wasn't some special resume protocol for that kind of thing.

You are remembering to paper clip the $100 bill to the resume, right? ;)

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Hope you lab rats all enjoyed your holiday breaks. :)

I'm sitting in Philadelphia airport waiting for a delayed flight to Indianapolis for the interview. Woohoo. Hopefully something good comes out of this one. I'm a bit bored of unemployment. :)

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Gimperial posted:

Anyone have any experience getting lab jobs in the UK with no experience per se? (Just graduated with an MSc)

Just apply to be a research assistant in a lab you like. That's what I did after my BSc. They made me present some data from my undergraduate lab project and chatted to me about why I was interested in what they were doing. It's just like any other job interview, really.

One important thing: If the lab specialises in something in particular, make sure you read up on it, know definitions for common words and have read at least one paper by the lab supervisor. One candidate for a PhD studentship in my lab couldn't define "epigenetics" in her interview and didn't know that the supervisor had written a book about DNA methylation.

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

There's a job opening where I work(Seattle) if anyone is interested:

quote:

Biophysics Research Associate

Emerald BioStructures is looking to hire a Research Associate for our Biophysics laboratory. The ideal candidate will have previous laboratory experience with NMR and small molecules, exemplary attention to detail, and the potential to thrive in a fast-paced, dynamic team environment.

Requirements:
• Bachelor's degree in chemistry (organic, physical, analytical) or a related field, with advanced spectroscopy classroom training;

• 1 or more years laboratory experience, either in industry or in academia;
• Ability to rapidly determine small molecule structures from simple NMR data;
• Experience with binding assays by NMR, SPR, ITC and/or other biophysical methods strongly desired;
• Experience with database design/management and/or scripting would be an asset.

Key responsibilities for Biophysics Research Associate

• Structure determination of small molecules by 1D and 2D NMR methods;

• Experimental design, sample preparation and binding analysis by NMR, SPR, and ITC;
• Protein dialysis/buffer exchange;

• Inventory management and routine quality assurance of small molecule compound library.



Qualified candidates should send cover letter and CV to jobs@embios.com

majestic12
Sep 2, 2003

Pete likes coffee

Appachai posted:



sent :allears:

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

majestic12 posted:

sent :allears:

Good luck. The hiring manager reads everything that comes in.

I hate fun
Apr 6, 2009
Cross-posted from the biology thread. Would appreciate the help!

I hate fun posted:

Hi Friends. Does anyone have any recommendations for good thermal cycler machines for genotyping? My lab has an MJ PTC-200 that we love. 15/15 of our protocols work on this machine. We also have a Bio-Rad C1000 that only works with 5/15 of our protocols and even then, only works 90% of the time. As far as the other 10/15 protocols, we have tried endless optimization experiments but have never gotten them to work on the Bio-Rad. Even optimization experiments with gradient programming produce variable results.

I've heard that Bio-Rad machines have inconsistent temperature profiles that isn't fit for amplification of shorter sequences. Unfortunately, Bio-Rad bought out MJ, so we can't purchase a new MJ machine. I'm not coming from a science background, so I'm not sure which other cyclers are popular. I've only ever seen Bio-Rad cyclers in any of the labs I've worked in.

Right now, we're thinking of purchasing a couple refurbished MJ PTC-200 from GMI (never heard of this company), but they want $5000 for each machine. And it only comes with a 90 day warranty. Seems incredibly sketch.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions. There's such a demand for the MJ machine in the lab that people have started coming in on weekends just to do genotyping.

canvasbagfight
Aug 20, 2005
renovating. please excuse our mess.

I hate fun posted:

Cross-posted from the biology thread. Would appreciate the help!
Sorry to hear about your C1000. We use that instrument for a lot of genotyping as well and it seems to be functioning correctly. But we've recently added a couple Applied Biosystems Veriti thermocyclers to the lab and we love them. All our old protocols transferred over without additional optimization. For new protocols you can divide the block into several zones each with their own parameters for faster optimization, and the touch screen display is a lot better than the old number pad systems. Applied Biosystems seems to make good enough stuff- we have some of their sequencers as well they've been problem free.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
Did Applied Biosystems separate from Life Technologies or is this just a branding thing? I thought AB and Invitrogen merged into Life Tech.

I guess I should just Google this, probably a branding thing.

reddeh
May 18, 2004

Lyon posted:

Did Applied Biosystems separate from Life Technologies or is this just a branding thing? I thought AB and Invitrogen merged into Life Tech.

I guess I should just Google this, probably a branding thing.

As a former Life Tech employee, you are correct about the merger. The brands were kept the same to keep name recognition. The Veriti is an awesome thermal cycler :)

plasmoduck
Sep 20, 2009

Gimperial posted:

Anyone have any experience getting lab jobs in the UK with no experience per se? (Just graduated with an MSc)

I actually have the same question for the U.S., with the caveat that I'm a EU citizen (Germany) graduating this summer. My boyfriend and I have been planning to move together (he's American), but I'm a bit skeptical about job hunting, since industry employers will probably prefer an applicant without the visa hassle (especially at entry level). Would I have a better chance with university labs? Do they hire "research assistants" at all, or is it all done by grad student slaves+the resident technicians?

canvasbagfight
Aug 20, 2005
renovating. please excuse our mess.

plasmoduck posted:

I actually have the same question for the U.S., with the caveat that I'm a EU citizen (Germany) graduating this summer. My boyfriend and I have been planning to move together (he's American), but I'm a bit skeptical about job hunting, since industry employers will probably prefer an applicant without the visa hassle (especially at entry level). Would I have a better chance with university labs? Do they hire "research assistants" at all, or is it all done by grad student slaves+the resident technicians?
Universities love research assistants (junior specialists) and seem to care a lot less about dealing with a visa than industry.

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

Looks like we're hiring another membrane protein crystallographer as well:

quote:

Membrane Protein X-ray Crystallographer and Project Leader position at Emerald BioStructures



Emerald BioStructures is an integrated gene-to-structure collaborative research organization specializing in drug discovery services. Our scientists provide integrated structural biology solutions to pharmaceutical, biotechnology and research institutions. We have become leaders in automated, full-pipeline, gene-to-structure crystallography services, and we are making significant investments in membrane protein services.



We are searching for an experienced X-ray crystallographer who can manage client projects and contribute to our growing offerings in the areas of membrane protein structural biology and biophysical screening services. X-ray crystallographers with experience expressing, purifying, and crystallizing or characterizing GPCRs are especially encouraged to apply. X-ray crystallographers with experience performing small molecule screening using Surface Plasmon Resonance (SPR) are also encouraged to apply.



Candidates must hold a PhD in structural biology or closely related field. The successful candidate will collaborate with a diverse group of scientists in a dynamic, fast-paced environment requiring exceptional organizational and communication skills. In addition to driving the scientific progress of structural biology collaborations, the successful candidate will be responsible for managing project costs and timelines to ensure profitability within our contract research environment.



We offer a competitive compensation and benefits package. Emerald BioStructures does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, marital status, national origin, disability, or status as a disabled, Vietnam-era, or other eligible veteran. Qualified candidates should send a resume and cover letter to jobs@embios.com.



Please visit our website: https://www.emeraldbiostructures.com

I think there was a membrane protein person in this thread somewhere...

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

plasmoduck posted:

I actually have the same question for the U.S., with the caveat that I'm a EU citizen (Germany) graduating this summer. My boyfriend and I have been planning to move together (he's American), but I'm a bit skeptical about job hunting, since industry employers will probably prefer an applicant without the visa hassle (especially at entry level). Would I have a better chance with university labs? Do they hire "research assistants" at all, or is it all done by grad student slaves+the resident technicians?

For the love of god, please learn your (very limited) rights as a visa worker in the United States!

First of all, there's no way you should be hired for basic lab work, because H1-B visas are supposed to be only for "jobs where they can't find anyone else to fill the unique needs". So if you do get an offer for a basic lab job, watch the gently caress out, especially in industry.

I can't tell you how many times I saw H1-B visa holders from the hellholes of the earth have to work six or seven days a week and maybe 10 or 12 hours a day. They were frightened of being sent back home so no one ever complained and sometimes they would even undermine each other. Safety was a loving joke as well.

Also, they lived in apartments owned by the guy who also owned the lab.

plasmoduck
Sep 20, 2009

Solkanar512 posted:

For the love of god, please learn your (very limited) rights as a visa worker in the United States!

First of all, there's no way you should be hired for basic lab work, because H1-B visas are supposed to be only for "jobs where they can't find anyone else to fill the unique needs". So if you do get an offer for a basic lab job, watch the gently caress out, especially in industry.

I can't tell you how many times I saw H1-B visa holders from the hellholes of the earth have to work six or seven days a week and maybe 10 or 12 hours a day. They were frightened of being sent back home so no one ever complained and sometimes they would even undermine each other. Safety was a loving joke as well.

Also, they lived in apartments owned by the guy who also owned the lab.

Actually I wasn't thinking of H-1B, but rather J-1; the 1 year limit isn't an issue since we might return to Japan (where I am currently) for a couple years. Anyway, industry seems to be out of my reach at this point - now I'm just trying to figure out whether I'd qualify as a "specialist" under J-1 and if that comes with the same set of requirements as H-1B.

[Edit] Also it's a bit ironic - right now I'm doing exactly those 12-hour days you mentioned, and I'm usually the first to leave. :japan:. (I hear it's better in the more international labs here/RIKEN).

plasmoduck fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Jan 10, 2012

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
In Sciencey Pharma news, PFE has finally announced their intent to ditch their pact with Medivation after yet another failed attempt at Dimebon clinical trials. For anyone who was following this about two years ago, PFE joined forces with a company called Medivation over developing a Russian off-market antihistamine which showed promise for reversing Alzheimer's dementia in some bullshit, statistically-incomplete phase II trials.

(http://www.biospace.com/news_story.aspx?NewsEntityId=246380)

The first PhIII trial in 2010 showed it completely ineffective for everything under the sun and resulted in MDVN's stock price dropping over 70% in a day. Apparently sinking $1B into this worthless drug wasn't enough for either of them, and the two companies tried again with a joint-dosing Dimebon + Donepezil HCL treatment.

Of course, Dimebon still doesn't do anything. Finally getting the message, PFE cuts ties to Medivation. :lol: I have always loved this particular line when it comes up: "Dimebon was generally well tolerated in the study." It's a fancy way of saying "Well, it does absolute jack poo poo, but at least there were no side effects either!"

At the time of the first clinical trial, I remember the company putting literally 100% of my department to work developing Dimebon. They were putting all their eggs in this basket for some reason. We had about ten different versions of it in the works. (IR, CR, patch, sachet, etc.) The fervor with which they were pursuing dimebon was unreal. It hadn't even been tested in a large-scale trial yet. Hundreds of millions of dollars were thrown at developing something which had no large-population data. Counting eggs, hatching, so on and so forth.


(In job hunt news, I have an offer coming today from E.L and an on-site at BMS being scheduled hopefully for later this week. Hooray!)

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Sundae posted:

In Sciencey Pharma news, PFE has finally announced their intent to ditch their pact with Medivation after yet another failed attempt at Dimebon clinical trials. For anyone who was following this about two years ago, PFE joined forces with a company called Medivation over developing a Russian off-market antihistamine which showed promise for reversing Alzheimer's dementia in some bullshit, statistically-incomplete phase II trials.

(http://www.biospace.com/news_story.aspx?NewsEntityId=246380)

The first PhIII trial in 2010 showed it completely ineffective for everything under the sun and resulted in MDVN's stock price dropping over 70% in a day. Apparently sinking $1B into this worthless drug wasn't enough for either of them, and the two companies tried again with a joint-dosing Dimebon + Donepezil HCL treatment.

Of course, Dimebon still doesn't do anything. Finally getting the message, PFE cuts ties to Medivation. :lol: I have always loved this particular line when it comes up: "Dimebon was generally well tolerated in the study." It's a fancy way of saying "Well, it does absolute jack poo poo, but at least there were no side effects either!"

At the time of the first clinical trial, I remember the company putting literally 100% of my department to work developing Dimebon. They were putting all their eggs in this basket for some reason. We had about ten different versions of it in the works. (IR, CR, patch, sachet, etc.) The fervor with which they were pursuing dimebon was unreal. It hadn't even been tested in a large-scale trial yet. Hundreds of millions of dollars were thrown at developing something which had no large-population data. Counting eggs, hatching, so on and so forth.

So at this point you're all, "told you so, let the motherfucker burn" at this point?

quote:

(In job hunt news, I have an offer coming today from E.L and an on-site at BMS being scheduled hopefully for later this week. Hooray!)

Great news! :D

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Actually pretty much the second I posted that previous one, the offer came. They offered me a shitload of money. Holy gently caress. After annual bonuses are taken into account, I'm looking at anywhere from a 24% to 36% raise over PFE.

quote:

So at this point you're all, "told you so, let the motherfucker burn" at this point?

More or less. That IP was so awful. I really don't understand why they kept chasing it. It was like taking the metaphorical 'chasing rainbows' but expecting to find not only a pot of gold at the end, but a platinum-making GBS threads unicorn too. Oh, and you were chasing a smog trail, not a rainbow.

Sundae fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 17, 2012

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Sundae posted:

Actually pretty much the second I posted that previous one, the offer came. They offered me a shitload of money. Holy gently caress. After annual bonuses are taken into account, I'm looking at anywhere from a 24% to 36% raise over PFE.


More or less. That IP was so awful. I really don't understand why they kept chasing it. It was like taking the metaphorical 'chasing rainbows' but expecting to find not only a pot of gold at the end, but a platinum-making GBS threads unicorn too. Oh, and you were chasing a smog trail, not a rainbow.

Yeah, I've been watching the old lab lose huge clients and fall on their asses during accreditation audits. Did I mention they have a paper only system, and one of the three quality manuals turned up missing? How in the gently caress does that happen?

majestic12
Sep 2, 2003

Pete likes coffee
Aaaaa I interviewed for a startup last Wed and it seemed to go really well but I haven't heard since then and now I'm beginning to freak out :ohdear:


e: yeah I did. They're a very small company (I met basically everyone during the interview) so I'm pretty sure it's just taking a bit of time. I'm just impatient!!!

majestic12 fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 18, 2012

canvasbagfight
Aug 20, 2005
renovating. please excuse our mess.
Did you send the people who interviewed you a thank you email or card? Sometimes that helps get a hint out of them as to what they thought of you.

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

It's amazing how much money will get thrown at a new acquisition. My company bought the rights to a project for a couple million, put a massive number of people to work on a new synthetic route, then looked at the clinical trial data and then paid a few million to give it back to the original company. Oh, and we stopped work on a similar drug because it overlapped drug targets. The whole thing was just bizarre.

kissekatt
Apr 20, 2005

I have tasted the fruit.

Any update on this? I need my nightmare-inducing gossip.

Solkanar512 posted:

Even though I don't work there anymore, I think I finally have Sundae beat.

1. The lab has decided to start using mice for testing. Without the appropriate measures or controls that normally go along with testing. No logs, no proper care, nothing. This resulted in two male mice to be injected with PCP (they're testing drug detection tools) to be left in the same cage overnight.

Yes kids, PCP. I don't think I need to go into detail as to what was found the next morning.

2. So the H1-B visa holders who work as researchers have been started on an incentive plan. They get a bonus if and only if they create something that the owner can patent. This has led to at least one researcher injecting herself with an untested drug on a regular basis to show how safe it is for humans. No, it hasn't been tested anywhere else, that would waste time. But apparently lots of folks knew about it.

Time to shut this fucker down if you ask me. Who would I go to outside of the local papers? A friend of mine has suggested the FDA for the mice issue, but what about allowing employees to become test subjects? Isn't this poo poo regulated?

Tommmmm
Jan 1, 2012
You Pharma/bio guys sound like you're working in a personal nightmare - sounds like I could never do that. I work for a very large engine manufacturer in the failure/investigation lab and my enjoyment swings at times. It's a good job, but at an absolute dead end in terms of advancement. Comparatively it's extremely laid back compared to what I've read here.

I come from a forensic background but I'd like offer some advice on plain just not studying it. Our course leader was lucky enough to see there's absolutely no jobs in it and hid a lot of investigation/basic principle/lab training in our degree. A year after I graduated the FSS was dissolved in the UK and labs become "local" to thier county forces with bugger all funding. Alas. I'd reccomend just doing straight Chem or Materials sciences in the UK right now. Alternatively just get an Apprenticeship and be paid more than all of UK graduates. :/

Gimperial posted:

Anyone have any experience getting lab jobs in the UK with no experience per se? (Just graduated with an MSc)

Trawl local county websites and generally find out what's in your area. A lot of our newer entries have been with agencies however. Don't expect any difference in pay with a Masters. Did you not do a sandwich year or grab any experience? It may be worth pleading for just a weeks worth of free labor to somewhere.

LIMS question for the guys on here. We use a custom build and it infuriates my lab that we cannot insert images. Is this just a crap build or just something we've been told to live with?

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Tommmmm posted:

Don't expect any difference in pay with a Masters.

This has not been my experience. In my lab, and all the labs in my institute, a masters gives you a slight pay boost.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Scientastic posted:

This has not been my experience. In my lab, and all the labs in my institute, a masters gives you a slight pay boost.

This has been my experience as well, though more and more frequently, the pay difference between M.S/Eng and B.S is only a technicality because they won't hire less than a masters degree in the first place.

Edit: poo poo, I missed the "in the UK" part. Sorry! I'm just a tard from the USA. YMMV.

quote:

You Pharma/bio guys sound like you're working in a personal nightmare - sounds like I could never do that. I work for a very large engine manufacturer in the failure/investigation lab and my enjoyment swings at times. It's a good job, but at an absolute dead end in terms of advancement. Comparatively it's extremely laid back compared to what I've read here.

I think it is really dependent on the company, to be fair. Solkanar and I had some of the worst companies I've ever heard of, in different sorts of ways. His was unbelievably shady, while mine was being ransacked by incompetent management / internal backstabbery. People I worked with at my old company are, for the most part, MUCH happier at their various new positions. The environment at PFE really was toxic to any productivity. My friends at Vertex and Cubist both love it, and while I've been told that my new employer has some bureaucratic similarities to PFE, it is apparently much less focused on sucking out your life force. :)

Sundae fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 29, 2012

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gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

Tommmmm posted:

You Pharma/bio guys sound like you're working in a personal nightmare - sounds like I could never do that. I work for a very large engine manufacturer in the failure/investigation lab and my enjoyment swings at times. It's a good job, but at an absolute dead end in terms of advancement. Comparatively it's extremely laid back compared to what I've read here.

It does really depend on the company. Mine is fine, aside from some typical worker angst, it's really not that bad. People lose perspective at my company because most of them were hired out of school, and therefore don't have a good idea what it's like to work for another company. The only real big problem is difficulty in advancing in a scientific track. There is no real clear pure science advancement opportunities, so you are stuck trying to be more mangery - and there are so many people trying to be project leads, and engineering leads, that it's kind of a grind. I personally jumped ship to the plant operations group in a business role rather then try and compete for a limited number of advancement opportunities, and have been pretty happy despite the lack of lab work (I do get to analyze large data sets, so it's not complete middle management).

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