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The stop sign is pretty absurd. Can't recall ever seeing a stop sign on an Eisenhower Interstate on-ramp other than when it's under construction.
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Dec 29, 2011 03:12
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Almost all the middle class and upper middle class people I know have a retarded fear of premium gas like it will somehow put them into the poor house.
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Dec 29, 2011 03:57
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US pricing for the Abarth has been released. It will be $22,000 plus destination (currently $500 on the regular car). Autoblog has put up a little comparison chart.code:
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Jan 12, 2012 04:35
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Way too close to the Cooper S.
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Jan 12, 2012 05:00
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BonzoESC posted:There are standards, but they're not mandatory due to the impracticality of implementing them in many areas. That stop sign in Pittsburgh seems like a prank though. No prank unfortunately. That's just the terrain we have to work with here. It's not even the only stop sign on an on highway on ramp around here. This one in Greentree is fun as well. http://g.co/maps/qz6vu
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Jan 12, 2012 06:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:who the gently caress goes around poking the dashboard on cars besides car mags This is actually a valid complaint. The Fiat's interior looks great. The gauges and the little computer is fantastic, but everything you have to press is so loving bad. The dials for the AC move out of the dash physically when you turn them. When the only thing the Fiat has going for it is the interior and the interior doesn't deliver, there will be people complaining about it. I am 100% in the same boat as toaster pastry: I want to like what this car should be so badly, but the car delivers on nothing. The test drive that I got was awesome, but that was the only real positive thing out of the trip. Crosspost from local car club's forum from my trip report: quote:The Fiat dealership was pretty slow from the time that I arrived until the time that I was in the car. The test drive was a nice circuit that gave a lot of variety as to how the car performs in different environments. The Fiat 500 does have a consistent feeling from the driver's perspective: it drives like rear end. The clutch is obnoxiously high, the steering is absolutely worthless unless if you put it in Sport mode, and I hope you like understeer. The traction control was pretty aggressive when I was tooling around in a parking lot, and turning it off just made it understeer without cutting off the gas; a major difference. The interior was pretty well thought out and I do like the gauges, but the knobs were soooooooo flimsy for the AC controls. I guess bonus points for having Bluetooth connectivity standard and the USB charger/plug-in and AUX port in the glove box with a nice little net. I want to like the car so bad, but my god is it just terrible to drive. Oh, and the gearbox was pretty uninspired. e: I forgot to add in when I went to go look over my shoulder to properly lane change on the freeway I was greeted by nothing but B-Pillar. No chance in hell of looking over your shoulder unless if you make an attempt to turn yourself 180 degrees from the seating position. The side mirrors were nicely sized, though. Phone fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 14, 2012 |
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Jan 14, 2012 18:41
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Phone posted:Crosspost from local car club's forum from my trip report: Couldn't hold out for a Swift anymore huh  The 2 is a great alternative though.Don't forget to order the race package for it 
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Jan 14, 2012 18:46
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Suzuki's only Japanese car in the States is the drat SX4.  Also: http://www.corksport.com/images/add_content/Mazda-2-B-Spec-Flier.pdf
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Jan 14, 2012 18:54
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Phone posted:Crosspost from local car club's forum from my trip report: See now, I have absolutely no idea what car they drove, but it cannot have been the same car that is based on my dear old Panda. EDIT: VVVV Ah, missed that. Still, I have no idea how our experiences of Panda-based Fiats can be so different. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jan 14, 2012 |
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Jan 14, 2012 20:56
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It was me in a Base model (Pop?) Fiat 500.
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Jan 14, 2012 21:42
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I've had my 500 since July and I have to say that it is the perfect car for me and the way I drive. No problems merging onto the freeway on a up-hill on-ramp, no problems getting the grocery shopping home, no problems so far at all, to tell the truth. Plenty of power to get the job done, seeing as I'm driving on public roads, not the Nuerburgring. If I have any complaints at all, they are that my gas mileage stinks (25mpg), and the door seals squeak while I drive. That's it. I could have had a Honda Fit, I could have had a BMW 328i, but for now I'm happy with my 500. It is a fun little car.
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Jan 15, 2012 03:46
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Eccles posted:I've had my 500 since July and I have to say that it is the perfect car for me and the way I drive. No problems merging onto the freeway on a up-hill on-ramp, no problems getting the grocery shopping home, no problems so far at all, to tell the truth. Plenty of power to get the job done, seeing as I'm driving on public roads, not the Nuerburgring. If I have any complaints at all, they are that my gas mileage stinks (25mpg), and the door seals squeak while I drive. That's it. I could have had a Honda Fit, I could have had a BMW 328i, but for now I'm happy with my 500. It is a fun little car. Is it an auto? I have averaged 39.5mpg over the 8500 mile I have put on mine since August. I do get better mileage in the city than I do interstate. I think I will be fabbing an intake and exhaust soon if I get this new job that is 55 miles each way mostly interstate.
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Jan 15, 2012 04:10
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Phone posted:Suzuki's only Japanese car in the States is the drat SX4. They ditched the Daewoos a couple years ago (I think they realized eventually that those things were poison). The Kizashi and Vitara are both in-house Suzukis and made in Japan. Their pickup is a Nissan from the US.
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Jan 15, 2012 04:27
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VideoTapir posted:They ditched the Daewoos a couple years ago (I think they realized eventually that those things were poison). Didn't Daewoo get purchased by GM and basically rebranded as Chevrolet?
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Jan 15, 2012 17:40
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el topo posted:Didn't Daewoo get purchased by GM and basically rebranded as Chevrolet? http://www.chevrolet.co.uk
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Jan 15, 2012 18:17
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InitialDave posted:Pretty much, Chevrolet over here just means "Daewoo wearing a bow tie". I thought it meant 'utter shitbox' but I guess yours is more polite.
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Jan 15, 2012 18:23
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VideoTapir posted:They ditched the Daewoos a couple years ago (I think they realized eventually that those things were poison). The Kizashi and Vitara are both in-house Suzukis and made in Japan. Their pickup is a Nissan from the US. I've always wondered about the Kizashi, I've seen a few and they look nice, but I've never heard or read anything about them. If they're made in Japan they should at least hold together well long term.
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Jan 15, 2012 18:48
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leica posted:I've always wondered about the Kizashi, I've seen a few and they look nice, but I've never heard or read anything about them. If they're made in Japan they should at least hold together well long term. The reviews were pretty much 'not a bad attempt but you should buy a second hand 03-07 Accord Euro instead' The CVT in them is pretty average too.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:12
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leica posted:I've always wondered about the Kizashi, I've seen a few and they look nice, but I've never heard or read anything about them. If they're made in Japan they should at least hold together well long term. They were nice when I sat in them at the auto show, but I don't think they did a very good job advertising them. They're doing at least a partial pull-out in Canada, removing the manual transmission and FWD models from our market. I was extremely impressed when the SX4 came out; the local dealership let me talk to their head mechanic so I could ask him about what kind of problems they had with the first models. Turns out it's very similar to the Aerio and they solved a number of the reliability and packaging issues from that car. I'm always happy to see them booting around because I think they're a massively underrated car that's going to see some kind of a long-term cult following similar to the AMC Eagle, Isuzu Vehicross and other quirky cars. I ended up opting for a Subaru instead as the steering was pretty terrible. If they did a turbo AWD model (like they keep asking Road Race Motorsports to put together concepts of, but then release slightly warmed up models of) I think they could probably get a good enthusiast toehold. e: As I was reading the RRM blog, I noticed that they've done a lot of Lancer modifications as well. There's a lot of weird overlap between Mitsubishi and Suzuki Cars in the US, isn't there? They even both sell/sold weird rebadged pickup trucks. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 15, 2012 |
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Jan 15, 2012 22:18
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bull3964 posted:No prank unfortunately. That's just the terrain we have to work with here. I drive this every day and I'm going to die horribly there eventually. The "award winning redesign" of the Robinson Township off-ramp is also so bad it causes the Parkway to stack up to the I76 merge every morning. Unfortunately Google Maps doesn't have a more recent image.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:39
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leica posted:I've always wondered about the Kizashi, I've seen a few and they look nice, but I've never heard or read anything about them. If they're made in Japan they should at least hold together well long term.
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Jan 16, 2012 01:18
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Do they offer the Kizashi with a manual? I owned a Swift GT and Samurai back in the day and I loved them both, so I have a soft spot for Suzukis. The SX4 is definitely on my radar for a future used car purchase, since Suzukis tend to depreciate big time, it should be a great used deal in five years or so. If the Kizashi holds up I'll be looking at those too.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:20
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Edit: Oops, I replied to something on page 14 .
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Jan 16, 2012 02:43
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el topo posted:Didn't Daewoo get purchased by GM and basically rebranded as Chevrolet? The purchase was like 12 years ago. Branding varies by market. But Daewoo and Suzuki have been in their own mutual orbits around GM since the 80s regardless of ownership levels. I recall reading vague references to Holden whipping Daewoo into shape prior to the release of the Cruze. ANYHOW, HOW 'BOUT THEM FIATS?
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Jan 16, 2012 04:06
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leica posted:Do they offer the Kizashi with a manual? I know it's blasphemy to say it, but the CVT on my Kizashi makes very good use of the powerband. So much so, I prefer to let the computer do the work since the manumatic doesn't seem to wring the power out quite as well (I do miss a manual, but the wife insisted we go auto). From what I understand, the CVT is a Jatco, like those equipped on Nissans and the much-hated Caliber, however, this one is pretty well-programmed, except for rare, brief lugging when you starting from a complete stop. It probably doesn't mean much to you, being in Florida, but when in FWD mode, the Kizashi handles extremely well, IMO, though it improves in AWD mode, obviously. Going from a Kia to an SX4 would probably be like night and day for you. Unfortunately, I went from my SX4, which was very good, to a TSX, then to the Kizashi (which has a superior quality interior IMO). As a result, when I cross shopped the SX4 and the Kizashi, I had to go for the one with the higher-rent interior. I've owned SAABs, Jaguars and multiple Acuras, but the quality and thoughtful touches on this car trumps them all. Hopefully, I don't sound like a paid shill, but I really do believe it's a good cost to quality proposition. With any luck, I'll still enjoy it this much thousands of miles later. BTW, the Samurai was badass...wish I could find another unmolested one.
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Jan 16, 2012 05:18
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Not to get this thread even further off-topic, but why does manual+AWD seem like such a poisonous combination to every manufacturer other than Subaru? Subaru is really the only manufacturer, in my opinion, that does AWD right: you can get it with a stick, and it's symmetrical at all times instead of being a FWD piece of poo poo 90% of the time. The lack of a stick-shift and symmetrical or rear-biased AWD in most AWD cars really turns me off the majority of them, which is sad because living in a place where a bit of extra traction is well appreciated in the winter, I'd kind of like a AWD car. If the WRX had had a 6-speed and less road noise (when I was car shopping), I'd almost certainly be driving one today.
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Jan 16, 2012 06:42
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Fuel economy is important too, and full time 4wd is not good in that regard. That's why Nissan shifted from a simple full time system to an on demand one back in the early 2000s
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Jan 16, 2012 06:53
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I would imagine that a lot of other automakers are unwilling to put in the considerable development effort. Audi does a pretty good job on their non-Haldex cars, I thought, and Saab/Haldex's XWD implementation is pretty good as well. The BMW Xdrive models are full-time AWD as well, I think, even the stick shifts. There's also a reliability and liability issue; the mass produced split-case Subaru 5-speeds aren't very tough for a variety of reasons and feel lovely. Mishandling the initial backlash when 2001-02 WRXes were popping trannies left and right thanks to clutch-dropping North Americans would probably have sunk the model permanently. Subaru is a "niche" manufacturer that can better deal with that kind of problem without it becoming national news. The 6-speeds (non-cable shift) are at least partially handbuilt and way, way overbuilt to deal with the shock load. Full-time AWD also carries with it a substantial drivetrain/economy loss, which is why you see a lot of part-time AWD systems like Haldex's in lieu of full-time symmetrical drivetrains. The US is a market that can deal with bad fuel economy, but it's also a market that won't drive a stick shift. e: f, partially beaten. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 06:55
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Is the WRX poor gas mileage mainly based on having AWD, a really hungry engine, or a combination of the two? You would think by now someone would be able to make a full AWD car that didn't guzzle gas
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Jan 16, 2012 07:27
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Drove my neighbors new 500 to pick up some sandwiches today. It's white on red cloth; I believe it's a "pop" trim. Here is a quick run down of my thoughts: Pretty spacious inside; very TALL cabin. I felt like I was sitting farther left in the cabin than normal. Cream colored steering wheel and dash are interesting to look at. Radio as well was cream and high in the dash and lacked any analog dials. Wheel and wheel mounted controls felt good, as did the interior door handles. Center console HVAC and radio controls felt flimsy. The AC dials were especially loose and light. The gauge cluster is in an single-circle layout; analog speed and tach, digi fuel/temp. I recall the speedo gauge resembling stamped aluminum. The drivers door did not latch a couple times on exiting. It felt like resistance in the hinge more than at the latch. I'm 5'9" 165lbs; the inside felt more than roomy. It was uncanny in that I enjoy interiors that fit like a glove, namely s2000, MR-S, Acura TL as an example of a larger car I feel is "snug" - the 500 in contrast felt airy. No center console to speak of and no passenger probably had a big part of this. I did not realize how little power this car had. I thought it was surely in the 130-150hp ball park before I looked it up. It surely sounds interested in what it's doing. Even though I'm generally entertained with a car that has a sporty spirit or feels quick even if it isn't, the real slowness of the 500 was immediately noticeable. The 6spd auto was decent. As usual for newer traditional autos if felt best in D + Sport. (the sport switch is higher on the dash, not on the shift bezel - I thought this was unique) The manumatic + - shifts were decades slow in normal mode, but sped up a little in sport. They were still too awkward to be any more than a line of text on the factory spec sheet. Nothing about the car really felt sporty to me. It was solid-feeling to drive as long as your hands were just on the wheel, and the design is fresh inside and out, but beyond that I didn't find any other redeeming factors. Other the obvious perks of fuel efficiency and compact size. If you wanted a Cooper for none of the right reasons - IE cuteness, style points - I could see this being a good choice. I would nestle it between the Smart and the Mini in the segment, with the Mini clearly the leader. Mind you the only Mini I've driven was an early (2004?) Cooper S with a manual and ~60k miles. Final thoughts: I immediately felt like everyone around me was compensating for something, and I was glad I was sporting a 4-month beard. The white/cream/red made this 500 clearly the most feminine car I've dared to accept the keys of. Sorry for the impromptu review. Just saw the thread for the first time and felt I should share. drewforty fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 07:27
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I hope the Abarth will be shown at my local auto show in March. I liked sitting in the 500 Pop but the shifter felt terrible and the seats didn't seem supportive enough for me. I'm curious how you'd do intensive maintenance such as a timing belt as it didn't seem like the engine bay was terribly accessible. I'm waiting for someone I know to get one so I have an excuse to take it out for a romp because I think the car must redeem itself in driving even if it isn't a terribly "sporty" car. Nodoze posted:Is the WRX poor gas mileage mainly based on having AWD, a really hungry engine, or a combination of the two? You would think by now someone would be able to make a full AWD car that didn't guzzle gas The FB engine family is intended to fix a lot of the problems with fuel efficiency and make an overall more modern engine, so it'll be interesting to see what it will be like when the WRX/STI follows the Impreza to the new motor. The stock Subaru turbo tune used to run extremely rich high up (similar to how the Mazdaspeed 3 does) but in the last few years (07+) they've backed off of that, running dangerously lean in some load conditions in order to try and hit those all-essential economy and emissions numbers. Some people I've talked to blame that as a primary contributor to the ringland failures on 2008 and 2009 STIs. The WRX and STI fuel economy is pretty good compared to the Evo and Ralliart; while I can watch the fuel gauge on my WRX go down during excessive throttle use, you can easily run down an Evo's smaller tank in under a hundred kilometers of aggressive driving. Their stock tune is also massively overrich. I don't have any personal experience comparing the Impreza to other nonturbo AWD cars, and you asked about the WRX anyway, so there's probably a lot of difference there too. The 2012 Impreza makes a big difference. The AWD adds substantial amounts of weight (even more so with the overbuilt STI 6-speed attached), which doesn't help fuel economy, but also features thicker/larger gears and shafts than most cars to deal with the additional shock load (as AWD cars can't just spin their wheels to get rid of excess torque in the drivetrain, it has to come out somewhere). This is probably a better discussion for the Subaru thread as I think we've annoyed the Cinquecento Friends quite enough.
Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 07:41
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Seat Safety Switch posted:This is probably a better discussion for the Subaru thread as I think we've annoyed the Cinquecento Friends quite enough.  Hey, we're all-a friends-a here, but enough-a with the rice-a cars, capiche?
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Jan 16, 2012 07:57
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PT6A posted:Not to get this thread even further off-topic, but why does manual+AWD seem like such a poisonous combination to every manufacturer other than Subaru? Subaru is really the only manufacturer, in my opinion, that does AWD right: you can get it with a stick, and it's symmetrical at all times instead of being a FWD piece of poo poo 90% of the time. Because the take rate for AWD is actually fairly low, and so is manual. Combine both and you're looking at 1% of sales or less. It costs money to certify each drivetrain for emissions and fuel economy so the drive trains that no one will ever choose don't get made, unless the margins on a car are high enough like on a BMW. One reason the 3 series vastly outsells all its competitors is that BMW offers a relatively big selection of engines and drivetrains, but it's a pretty expensive "feature". quote:I would imagine that a lot of other automakers are unwilling to put in the considerable development effort. Audi does a pretty good job on their non-Haldex cars, I thought, and Saab/Haldex's XWD implementation is pretty good as well. The BMW Xdrive models are full-time AWD as well, I think, even the stick shifts. Xdrive isn't "full time" if by that you mean "have a center differential" because it doesn't, it's just a clutchpack coupling. The E46 32_xi actually was "full time" in that it had a center differential, but it was an OPEN center differential, with no limited slip, instead the ABS system had to brake the wheels to achieve the limited slip function. Going futher back there was an E30 325xi too, it was a viscous coupling diff lock, so basically a BMW manual WRX. quote:Is the WRX poor gas mileage mainly based on having AWD, a really hungry engine, or a combination of the two? You would think by now someone would be able to make a full AWD car that didn't guzzle gas The auto and manual Imprezas had different AWD implementations. The manual was a "full time" type with a center diff, the auto was a clutchpack type without a center diff. The clutchpack type was better for fuel economy, but the Subaru auto on the lower end models was always a 4 speed, so the 2 effects canceled each outher out - the 4 speed auto w/part time AWD and the 5 speed manual with full time AWD both got about the same (poor) fuel economy. Now that Subaru has switched to a CVT for its lower end models with the part time AWD they get as good or better fuel economy than many FWD competitors. Compare AWD Subarus with CVT to FWD Toyotas of the same class: 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 07:59
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PT6A posted:Not to get this thread even further off-topic, but why does manual+AWD seem like such a poisonous combination to every manufacturer other than Subaru?
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Jan 16, 2012 14:05
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drewforty posted:Drove my neighbors new 500 to pick up some sandwiches today. It's white on red cloth; I believe it's a "pop" trim. Here is a quick run down of my thoughts: This is a great review. I just drove a white/red '08 500 Lounge which is supposed to be my sister’s birthday surprise and I agree with every one of your points. This one is a manual 1.4L 16V and it didn’t feel dangerously slow at all, unlike the 875cc TwinAir which made me want to cut out a square hole in the floor pan and yell "Yabba dabba doo". I can’t imagine Fiat will sell many of these cars to male customers. Everything about this car seems needlessly girly and cute on purpose. A shame, really. Speaking of which…  
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Jan 19, 2012 15:29
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The Abarth is probably about 900 bucks too expensive. If it cost about 10% less than the Cooper S that would be a meaningful difference. As is, it's too close. There are all sorts of rumors that there will be a five door (so basically a Panda? but 500-looking) for the US market. If they do that with the Abarth drive train they will sell about six of them, but that's what I would want. Driving a 500 in traffic is awesome everyone should try it even if you hate the car otherwise.
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Jan 19, 2012 16:21
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I keep seeing more 500's around town but the nearest dealer I know of still 130ish miles away. Might get lucky and check one out at the Charleston auto show in a couple of weeks. Trade the RX8 in on a 500, sounds like a smart idea. 
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Jan 19, 2012 21:51
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evilnissan posted:
On the plus side, if you're single your dating life with explode.
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Jan 19, 2012 22:48
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I had a Fiat Punto rental yesterday (1.4 manual), and as well as a little beeper that goes off if you use the handbrake while in motion, they've gone and set up the bloody throttle so that it cuts if you're applying the brake - no left-foot braking! Is the 500 the same? I understand why they do it (help prevent the "ZOMG DBW RUNAWAY!" stuff), but it's still a complete pain, and I really hope cars with it set as a default can be programmed otherwise with a diagnostic setup.
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Jan 21, 2012 19:06
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InitialDave posted:I had a Fiat Punto rental yesterday (1.4 manual), and as well as a little beeper that goes off if you use the handbrake while in motion, they've gone and set up the bloody throttle so that it cuts if you're applying the brake - no left-foot braking! I had to test it out because I never ever do it (loldiesel), but I can definitely left-foot brake in my Panda without the throttle cutting out. Take that as you will, who knows how they changed the ECU for the 500.
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Jan 21, 2012 19:42
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