Defenestration posted:

On the other hand he was being ridiculously dishonest by saying that knowing 5 people extrapolates to thousands nationwide

Dr Christmas posted:

E: Oh god, it just dawned on me that I called a black man a welfare queen in a public forum

Herman Merman posted:

No, that is how random sampling works. If he "knows" 5000 people, say, and 5 of them are welfare abusers, that does extrapolate to a few hundred thousand nationwide. Of course that would not be a real unbiased random sample in any statistically meaningful sense, but hey.

FaceSpace posted:

My Cousin posted:

Letter from Col Allen West, re; Marines urinating on taliban corpses: “I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors bein...g killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
Like · · Unfollow Post · 2 hours ago near Camby, IN ·
SomeGuy, SomeOtherGuy and 10 others like this.

Natas Dog posted:

I dunno, I seem to remember a fair amount of outrage over the Mogadishu and Fallujah incidents as well; I must watch a different news channel than West does. Not surprising, considering he's a pretty big douchebag to begin with.
54 minutes ago · Like

Some Dude posted:

Gotta spread this one. Well put.
49 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

Hey Natas, agree or not with Col West, the talliban (or any other terroritst group) is not held accountable for what they do. So when one of our troops has "had enough" and pisses on the dead body of someone, the media want action. Col West is simply sticking up for the people down range "in the poo poo", and I applaud that.
29 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

I do kind of get a huge kick out of people like my dear cousin who throw stones at a Col in the US military for coming to and deffending the actions of their own. I mean we all have "taken matters into our own hands". Should these guys have wipped out their business and pissed on some dead people? Of course not; however how many of their buddys have been blown up by road side bombs, how many of their friends have been sniped while walking through some poo poo town? I mean I know if someone hurts my friends I get upset, if someone broke into my car and I caught them in the act they'd get a lot more than urine on them. It's ironic to sit on the sidelines and talk poo poo about someone deffending their own people, property, etc..when you'd be doing the same thing. Or maybe you wouldn't (or never have) and there in lies a whole nother (deeper) issue?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
21 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

I thought the whole reason we were in Afghanistan was to hold the Taliban accountable? Two wrongs don't make a right, and there are plenty of other ways to blow off steam if you've 'had enough'. Col West is a douchebag and he holds no moral high ground that I'd feel comfortable scrambling onto. This is the same guy who discharged his weapon next to an Iraqi civilian's head and was court martialed and convicted for it.

If you have a problem with our men and women getting blown up in a foreign land, then lobby to get them out of that land; don't sit there and try to justify atrocities commited by our side using the excuse that 'they do terrible stuff too'. Allen West is a douche and I have no respect for anything he says, whether it's in defence of our men and women in uniform or otherwise.
18 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

You can go ahead and try to put words into my mouth and use ad hominem attacks in some kind of passive aggressive tit for tat if you'd like; but I'd prefer if you actually focused on what I've said and form an opinion based on that instead.
15 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

‎"Lobby to get them out of that land"...C'mon dude like the words of a 32 yr old Indianapolis man will make a hill of beans difference? I think not, instead I choose to stand up and next to my brother and sisters down range who have had enough, and slip up and make mistakes...Holding Afghans and Taliban's accountable is quite difficult when we're playing with two different sets of rules.
15 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

I'm not putting any words in anyones mouth, I posted a MESSAGE on MY page which YOU chose to comment on.
14 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

‎" It's ironic to sit on the sidelines and talk poo poo about someone deffending their own people, property, etc..when you'd be doing the same thing", "I do kind of get a huge kick out of people like my dear cousin who throw stones at a Col in the US military for coming to and deffending the actions of their own"; really? Again, you're not addressing anything I actually said, just making assumptions based on something I said that didn't even come close to addressing what you're saying.

My initial statement was pointing out that West was drawing a false conclusion based on his apparent blindness to the reaction to the Mogadishu and Fallujah incidents. Your response immediately assumed that I somehow disagreed with the sentiment of his letter. My point was merely 1. that Allen West is a douchebag, and 2. That he was trying to minimize the public outrage toward this incident by pretending no one was outraged at the initial two incidents he pointed out; which I characterize as a false statement.
8 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

Do I, believe we shoule be there? No. However, we are...and until the last one leaves, which will be never, because we will always have a "boots on the ground" there (or at least in the region). I'll admitt when we do wrong, but that doesn't mean I going to "burn my draft card". I'm of the opinon the US military serves far more of a purpose than what the average civilan sees. The military creates a foundation for tons of young men and women who just don't know what to do when society tells us, "okay we're 18 go be a adult". I'd venture to say maybe 1/3 of all people in uniform are in uniform because they feel a obligation to serve, the other 2/3's are doing it for education, travel, skill training, something to better their life once out. With that state of mind...I support them regardless.
7 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

However you personally feel about Col West...YOU a American SHOULD deffend the Marines involved. Period... If you think Col West is a D-bag, so be it; but when you have a negative comment about what Col West is saying while he's deffending your Marines, You look like the D Bag
3 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

If you did something, "Illegal" in the eyes of the law, ROE's, SOP's of your profession, I would try and defend you, regardless...
2 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

No seriously, gently caress those Marines specifically. They're assholes for doing what they did, and are working to undo what little good will we have built up in the region by doing what they did. However, the Marines as an overall organization are a fine group of people; former marine Allen West notwithstanding.
2 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

I'm sorry you feel that way, Natas...really I am.
a few seconds ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

But here's the kicker Cousin, I don't want anyone to defend my bad behavior. In fact, I'd prefer that I got reprimanded and I wish there were more people who had called out my bad behavior when I was younger; so it wouldn't have taken so long for me to realize what a terrible person I'd become.
a few seconds ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

No way Natas...that's not what family is. Obviously I'm not kin to those Marines but i am a veteran and I'll stand up for them, right or wrong. You were a rear end in a top hat kid, but i didn't not love you. They'll get their reprimand, but i think it's wrong to say someone is a D Bag for standing up for them. We all stood up for you, (and the rest of our bad rear end family) as we all made mistakes...you wouldn't allow anyone to call you a D Bag if someone said you were one for standing up for something Eric did, back in the day.
14 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

You and I both agree what they did was wrong. Where we disagree is, I say; "Damnit boys not a smart move, hope the whip doesn't hurt too bad, I'll buy ya a beer when you get home" and it appears to me you'd say, "gently caress them assholes, throw the book at 'em"
11 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

I'm still having a hard time reading that from my initial statement, and I'm curious how you managed to make that logical leap from " I seem to remember a fair amount of outrage over the Mogadishu and Fallujah incidents as well" to "ARGLE BARGLE LOCK EM UP AND THROW AWAY THE KEY". In reality I believe they should be punished as befitting the crime based on the articles of the UCMJ, same as I was when I did my 30 days in the brig.

I'm no stranger to doing shady poo poo, but I've realized the error of my ways and have made the conscious decision to be a better person. That includes condemning the terrible actions of others when they are committed and not trying to justify it using whatever ideological or emotional appeals I can to make it seem less wrong than it actually is; which is what West is trying to do with this letter. Based on his track record I already know his morals are pretty sketchy to begin with, which makes his statement even more ridiculous.
about a minute ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

Don't just take one sentence of your inital statement and try to win a battle of witts with me. Your initial statement was one that appeared to not support our military. Maybe I read too much into it, but you're a smart enough man to where if your initail statement's purpose was to say Col. West is a D Bag, then I'd assume you'd a said something along thie lines of what you just said, "I believe they should be punished IAW the UCMJ"...."however, the individual standing up for them (COL West) is a A B AND C. I posted this letter not as a Col West document but as a document of someone in the upper tier of military leadership deffending the actions of a few marines in the lower teir. Now if you chose to take this opportunity to bash Col West because of how you feel about him then okay...my bad. Wrong forum I think...seeming how the intent was to show support and the author of the letter really doesn't make any difference to me.
11 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

I wasn't cherry picking from my initial statement at all. If there's anything in that statement that conveyed the conclusion you so readily jumped to, it was entirely manufactured by you. I can't help if you read more into what I say than what I actually say.

Apparently you're not understanding me at all. My initial reply was pointing out that West is wrong in his assessment of how war crimes committed by our enemies are treated by the media. They are given plenty of scrutiny when they occur, and they are every bit as condemned as the actions of these troops are being condemned now. He's being deliberately dishonest in order to make it sound as if these marines are being unfairly persecuted by the media for what they did while the taliban and al queda aren't. That's simply not true.

From that untrue statement he then launches into a big RAH RAH routine to drum up support for a group of guys who don't deserve my support. Their actions are not excusable, and if we want to maintain the moral high ground their actions should be condemned. It's impossible for me to muster up support for a guy who used a false statement right out of the gate, no matter how jingoistic his patriotic message is. To top it off, he himself was punished under the UCMJ for making bad decisions as well, which makes any kind of moral appeal on his part highly dubious.
a few seconds ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

If I was wrong in my conclusion of your intent from your first response, my bad. Your over use of Ivy league vocabluary must have been the reason for me losing your true message. Hahahahaha
15 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin posted:

On a serious note I would have chosen to actually mention something about the content of the letter Col West wrote and not just the author.
12 minutes ago · Like

My Cousin's Dad posted:

Cousin - You should know that you can debate a topic like this with someone that has never served a day in their life and doesn't have a clue what the hell they are talking about. Semper FI USMC!!!!
3 minutes ago · Like

Natas Dog posted:

My very first sentence did exactly that, Cousin. It called into question his assessment of how the media treats war crimes that the enemy commits.

Hey Cousin's Dad, gently caress you. I was in the military, so you really don't know poo poo. I'm sorry you stopped developing mentally as a result of your service, but I can't say that I have.

quote:

However you personally feel about Col West...YOU a American SHOULD deffend the Marines involved. Period... If you think Col West is a D-bag, so be it; but when you have a negative comment about what Col West is saying while he's deffending your Marines, You look like the D Bag

Dameius posted:

The worst part to me is that on a surface level it appears your cousin has his heart in the right place. He just lacks any kind of self reflection or critical thought on the matter, refuses to do so, and has a little too big a hard on for the, "thin blue line," mentality when it comes to ARE troops.

Just a depressing example of what persistent jingoistic propaganda can do to people.

Kosmonaut posted:

What are you supposed to do if a Marine says "gently caress America" or "gently caress the Marine Corps" or "vote for Barack Obama"

Armyman25 posted:

Then their service doesn't count.

(sarcasm, but that's the Conservative position)

Kosmonaut posted:

What are you supposed to do if a Marine says "gently caress America" or "gently caress the Marine Corps" or "vote for Barack Obama"

Armyman25 posted:

Then their service doesn't count.

(sarcasm, but that's the Conservative position)

quote:

This weekend in preparation for the South Carolina primary, Students for Rick Perry is tweeting not one, not two, but one hundred reasons to support Governor Perry for president. The full list is below:

Under his leadership, 1 million jobs were created.
He successfully managed and grew the 13th largest global economy.
He believes in America.
He knows what it means to serve in uniform.
He believes every innocent life must be protected.
He has made a living from the land.
He trusts America’s military to defend liberty with honor.
He trusts in the people of America.
He trusts in the ingenuity of America’s small businesses.
He trusts moms and dad to educate their children in truth.
He trusts moms and dad to raise their children in faith.
A man of fidelity, he adores his wife, the love of his life.
He grew up knowing the value of hard work, faith, and thrift.
He knows America’s best days are yet ahead.
“Let’s let America be America again.”
He understands our rights come from God not government.
He supports the individual’s right to defense.
He stopped taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood.
He signed loser-pays lawsuit reform so businesses can grow.
He actually cut spending – not just decreasing an increase in spending.
He used line-item veto to scrub more than $3 billion of spending.
He supports a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.
He signed Texas’ law requiring women to have a sonogram before an abortion.
He championed parental notification and consent.
“There is no homeland security without border security.”
He introduced and signed Voter ID law.
He championed the defense of marriage amendment in Texas.
“Free people work harder, live better, take better care of one another.”
“With liberty as its starting point, America grew into the greatest nation.”
“We need to repeal ALL of the federal healthcare law.”
“Let private industry do what private industry does best: innovate.”
“When it comes to energy, all of the above beats one size fits all.”
“Every life must be given a chance to realize its full potential.”
Terrorists “miscalculated our ability, as a nation, to rise above the ruins.”
He has a Coyote Special edition Ruger .380-caliber pistol designed in his honor.
His boots are named Liberty and Freedom.
“Restoring a constitutional, limited government will take a massive effort.”
Israel has no greater friend.
He believes values matter.
He wants to end job-killing federal regulations.
He recognizes biggest problem: Out-of-control spending.
He understands Americans want dignity of job, not dependency.
He wants to fuel American growth with American energy.
He walks the walk; his record of governance is unmatched.
He publicly and privately supports our wounded warriors and returning vets.
He is a conservative of conviction.
He believes Congress should live under the laws they pass.
He is a man of humility.
He does not play golf. (Hehe.)
He signed 67 tax cuts, saving Texas taxpayers $14 billion.
“A president should never send our sons and daughters into war without a plan to win.”
“Question is not what we can afford to spend on our military, but what it costs to remain secure and free.”
“Fidelity to the Constitution.”
“Our fight is to save America from Washington.”
Character counts.
Under his leadership, Texas economy grew to second largest in the nation.
He is pro-life, pro-states-rights, pro-vets, pro-gun-rights, pro-small-business and pro-America.
He has challenged entrenched elites to make education affordable.
He understands servant leadership.
“Because our children and this country are worth the fight.”
He will cut taxes and spending, and balance the budget by 2020.
He will simplify and flatten the tax code.
He will eliminate the tax on Social Security benefits.
He will eliminate the Death Tax.
He will reduce and flatten corporate income tax rate to enhance American competitiveness.
He will call for an immediate moratorium on all pending regulations.
He will fix Social Security for ALL generations of Americans.
He will end bailouts.
He will cap federal spending at 18% of GDP.
He will repeal #Obamacare.
He has proven conservative ideas and ideals work.
He will get government out of the way to get America working again.
He understands that to save necessary safety nets, we must reform them.
He will stand firm with our allies and bow to none.
“Make what Americans buy. Buy what Americans make. And sell it to the world.”
To create jobs and restore investor confidence he will expand energy production in America.
He will unleash America’s entrepreneurial spirit from over-regulation and over-taxation.
“Our federal government must do a few things, do them well.”
“We must spend the taxpayer’s money wisely.”
He will repeal EPA’s authority over greenhouse gases.
He will limit EPA enforcement power to national or regional issues.
He will eliminate energy subsidies and mandates that punish consumers.
“Ending President Obama’s job-killing policies will begin America’s economic recovery.”
“We’re not going to take this anymore.”
“A strong America requires a strong economy, a strong balance sheet, a strong dollar.”
We cannot limit ourselves to small dreams.
“The current economic problems were created by years of wasteful mismanagement.”
Deficits, debt and failed stimulus spending have jeopardized the future of our country.
“Our place in the world can once again be secure with a policy of peace through strength.”
“America is still there and ready to be awakened again.”
It’s Main Street versus Wall Street and K Street.
“Rick Perry is one of the most honorable men I’ve ever met.” – Marcus Luttrell
We cannot afford four more years of big government whether “conservative” or “progressive.”
He stands his ground but also admits his mistakes.
“As Americans we’re not defined by class, and we will never be told our place.”
“In America, the people are not subjects of government. The government is subject to the people.”
“Our nation cannot and it must not endure four more years of aimless foreign policy.”
“We cannot and must not endure four more years of rising unemployment, rising taxes, rising debt.”
What do we tell our kids and grandkids if we don’t?
Because it’s time to believe again.

rscott posted:

All it took for me to turn from a libertarian into a socialist was a thread here in D&D that laid out quite simply the traditional Marxist critique of capitalism. I remember reading the post (I think it was either by Zeitgeist or ReindeerF), starting to write a rebuttal and then just sitting there for a minute and going, "holy poo poo they're right". It was quite a distinct epiphany for me.

So remember that comrades when you're posting. Even if the thread ends up turning to poo poo because of people who can't admit that they're wrong, there might be someone out there reading your posts with an open mind that you can change.

Kosmonaut posted:

Yeah it looks like at least not one not two but fifty of those are completely empty of any factual content (whether true or false) and could be replaced with "because AMERICA" without losing anything.

quote:

1. Rick Perry’s presidential announcement
2. The death of Osama bin Laden (I hate to celebrate someone’s death, but this was a great moment of vindication for Bush.)
3. Texas defunding Planned Parenthood
4. Texas continuing to dominate the job market
5. The many rulings against Obamacare, Greg Abbott championing the fight against it, and SCOTUS’ decision to hear the case
6. Campus carry victories in two states
7. Anything about Tim Tebow
8. Gabrielle Giffords’ intern
9. The debt ceiling debates (Though a ridiculously long, unnecessarily complicated process that ended up with the wrong result, it was a fascinating few months and the first time I’ve paid close attention to the nitty-gritty details of what goes on in Washington.)
10. A surge of conservative legislation in Texas, from the sonogram bill and voter ID to bills that fell just short but have great potential to pass in the next session, such as the TSA “anti-groping” bill

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Thought I would cross post this from the GOP thread

100 Reasons to Support Perry

quote:

His boots are named Liberty and Freedom.

THE GAYEST POSTER posted:

Orkiec posted:

Can somebody post a link to this? I'm not criticising you or anything, I'm honestly interested in reading this.

rscott posted:

I think it was the "discuss Keynesian and Austrian economics itt" thread back around May or June of 2011 but I don't have archives so I can't go and find it.

rscott posted:

So if Austrian economics is just deduction with little empirical evidence to back up its conclusions, what's the point? At that point, I would hesitate to call it economics at all.

Kosmonaut posted:

What are you supposed to do if a Marine says "gently caress America" or "gently caress the Marine Corps" or "vote for Barack Obama"

Grem posted:

This is me and my former coworkers and step-dad tell me I'm un-American

Z-Magic posted:

Also their version of support doesn't involve any sacrifice on their part, it merely involves turning 'the troops' into some unquestionable authority they can appeal to like God or The Founding Fathers.

Bombadilillo posted:

Mostly when the logic lines were literally "If you don't support the mission, you don't support the troops".

Pfirti86 posted:

Whelp, he's got my vote

quote:

An impressive list of accomplishments!

First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.

First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.

First President to preside over a cut to the credit-rating of the United States.

First President to violate the War Powers Act.

First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

First President to defy a Federal Judge’s court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law.

First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.

First President to spend a trillion dollars on ‘shovel-ready’ jobs when there was no such thing as ‘shovel-ready’ jobs.

First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.

First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.

First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S., including those with criminal convictions.

First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.

First President to terminate America’s ability to put a man in space.

First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.

First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.

First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly spoke-out on the reasons for their rate increases.

First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which State they are allowed to locate a factory.

First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN).

First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.

First President to fire an inspector general of Ameri-corps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.

First President to appoint 45 czars to replace elected officials in his office.

First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office.

First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.

First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.

First President to go on multiple global ‘apology tours’.

First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends; paid for by the taxpayer.

First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.

First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000 a year at taxpayer expense.

First President to repeat the Holy Qur'and tells us the early morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful sound on earth.

so how is this hope and change working out for ya

"WE CAN'T WAIT- FOR 2012

myron_cope posted:

If he's the first president to do all that stuff that is listed that I didn't bother to read, how is that not "change"? He's breaking new ground!

quote:

First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends; paid for by the taxpayer.

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

quote:

First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.

quote:

The Area Number, the first three digits, is assigned by the geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the Area Number represented the office code in which the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant's mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant, neither prior to 1973, nor since.

Emron posted:

A lot of those (the ones that aren't presumably just made up or based on assumptions) are incredibly specific so it's not surprising he's the first! Like this one, for example:


Maybe another had 18 vacations!

dur posted:

So, maybe that "first" is true, but you could include "First President to have a last name starting with O" and it'd be just as meaningful.