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What actually got retconned?
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Jan 17, 2012 03:17
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Waffnuffly posted:What actually got retconned? Dave called himself a white guy and Hussie changed "white" into jumbled garble.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:19
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The best way to handle this would have been "not at all". It's a goddamn webcomic, who gives a poo poo.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:21
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NO LISTEN TO ME posted:I want to keep on musicstuck, and not racestuck, so I'll just plop this down here. The Auto-Responder theme went down in flames after a computer meltdown. Luckily I had some backups, but it was a dead-end anyway and I need to re-do some things. In the meantime I felt like making something more soothing, and this happened. It takes a little mental work to for me to associate it with Feferi in this draft. Kind of reminds me of Sburban Jungle, actually.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:27
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It's hard being an incredibly successful webcomic author having to deal with sometimes overenthusiastic fans. It's hard and nobody understands.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:42
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Waffnuffly posted:What actually got retconned? It's in this pesterlog, near the bottom. Bro used to be 'a white guy who is a rapper' and now I guess he's a 'Íæû ë€Å'?
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Jan 17, 2012 03:45
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Totally loving that this is happening on MLK day. It must have been the spirit of that illustrious civil rights crusader that moved Hussies hand to retcon Dave to not be white! Equality has at last been achieved.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:46
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YggiDee posted:It's in this pesterlog, near the bottom. Bro used to be 'a white guy who is a rapper' and now I guess he's a 'Íæû ë€Å'? Why didn't Hussie just leave out the word "white"? I don't understand why he replaced it with "Íæû ë€Å" and I don't feel like it accomplishes anything or placates anyone at all.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:50
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Soon they will all be reconnected into Trolls.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:52
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Well Manicured Man posted:Why didn't Hussie just leave out the word "white"? I don't understand why he replaced it with "Íæû ë€Å" and I don't feel like it accomplishes anything or placates anyone at all. Yeah, I'm pretty cool with Hussie retconning mistakes in principle (although the classy thing would be to at least say "whoops I goofed") but this is pretty astoundingly stupid.
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Jan 17, 2012 03:55
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Dave, Dirk, Rose and Roxy are whatever race you want them to be, they just happen to be albino. The rest of the kids are translucent, like baby fish.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:01
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My thoughts on the issue can be illustrated with a picture that was posted in this very thread earlier today.KoB posted:Gamzee the smallest troll Truly I am the height-ist. What I'm saying is that I find it all pretty funny. Race can be a serious issue, but this is just silly. Commutator posted:Totally loving that this is happening on MLK day. It must have been the spirit of that illustrious civil rights crusader that moved Hussies hand to retcon Dave to not be white! Equality has at last been achieved. Holy poo poo how did I miss this?
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Jan 17, 2012 04:01
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YggiDee posted:It's in this pesterlog, near the bottom. Bro used to be 'a white guy who is a rapper' and now I guess he's a 'Íæû ë€Å'? Hahaha what the gently caress? This has to be a technical mistake of some kind. Edit for less ambiguity Buff Skeleton fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 04:01
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I don't see what the big deal is. Hussie says he wants his characters to be a-racial. Someone pointed out a spot where he slipped and put in a race-indicator by mistake. So he went back and edited it in the most comic-appropriate way possible, like The Land of Rays and _____ (frogs) or Ro__ (xy) Lalonde and Di__ (rk) Strider. Dave's race never makes any difference to the story, so I don't see it as a retcon, it's just fixing a typo. 
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Jan 17, 2012 04:04
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Well Manicured Man posted:Why didn't Hussie just leave out the word "white"? I don't understand why he replaced it with "Íæû ë€Å" and I don't feel like it accomplishes anything or placates anyone at all. The way it is now makes it look like John is getting bleeped out. He's a ****ing guy who is a rapper.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:20
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In the MSPA forums, Hussies actually said something along the lines of "I retconned a hilarious joke into an even more hilarious in-joke," so at least we know it's not a technical thing. I think it's hilarious, but Homestuck is already hard enough to read if you're not following it day-by-day. It'll fall into the same category Hussies rant about troll romance and being trapped in the attic did. Also there isn't any fanart of Daves races Newfound missing-no status. Sort of weird, for Tumblr.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:27
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You speak too soon.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:32
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It's pretty clear that Íæû ë€Å is a new joke in the light of the recent developments. It's not a cover-up and it's not meant to be taken seriously, although it will be. e: Beekeeping and You posted:In the MSPA forums, Hussies actually said something along the lines of "I retconned a hilarious joke into an even more hilarious in-joke," so at least we know it's not a technical thing. I think the idea for the characters being a-racial was a fairly early one as evidenced by his responses to fans, but clearly some opportunities for jokes arose.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:35
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Wait, am I the only one who's not missing the point on this race thing? AH clearly stated the point was that the kids' height, weight, and even color was "whatever you want them to be", so if you really think they're all white, then they technically are. That retcon was still stupid though. Bro could still be a white guy and not have any baring on Dave's color, ectobiology notwithstanding.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:37
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There would have been nothing wrong with not retconning it either, because he's literally a white kid. #FFFFFF white.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:39
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Whether the "a-racial" thing is intentional or a dodge it doesn't change the fact he pulled that tired "NO IT YOU WHO ARE THE RACISTS (and then you were the racists)" poo poo that is positively redolent with the whiff of privilege.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:40
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:You speak too soon. If you squint, it looks a bit like Ithaca. I'm going with Greek.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:40
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Now we have a slightly abridged edition of Andrew Hussie's Daunting Text of Magical Frivolity and Practical Japery, updated for the modern prankster and scrubbed a few of the more egregious Faygo-fueled racial delineations.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:48
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Seoinin posted:Whether the "a-racial" thing is intentional or a dodge it doesn't change the fact he pulled that tired "NO IT YOU WHO ARE THE RACISTS (and then you were the racists)" poo poo that is positively redolent with the whiff of privilege. I thought he was saying that the notion that the kids "couldn't be anything but white" was racist because it implied that non-whites couldn't make sense in the story. That strikes me as a much more convoluted and confusing position. I'm not going to draw any conclusion beyond that because I have no horse in this race. Zooloo fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 04:50
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The first big problem is some of you think Hussie cares deeply about racism and thinks of it as something of great gravity. I think it's pretty obvious from his past works that Hussie is light-hearted when it comes to this issue and he is just pointing out the plain fact that everyone is a little racist. So all this “Boo hoo hoo Hussie called me racist” smacks of a little disingenuous outrage to me, or stupidity if they're taking anything Hussie says 100% seriously. But the meat of the subject matter is something Hussie is just being consistent with. He's said the characters were “aracial” from the start, and while you are free to all your headcanons, that's just that, headcanons. So if you really want to view it as a bunch of asians or Gamzee super tall someone else can't say, "It's a visual comic! My headcanon is superior". No one is judging anyone for having the headcanon they're four white kids. Hussie isn't judging you.
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Jan 17, 2012 04:58
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Who What Now posted:The best way to handle this would have been "not at all". It's a goddamn webcomic, who gives a poo poo. Every single Homestuck-obsessed fan out there with 16 fantrolls. And lets face it, people were looking for a way to 'troll' Hussie since Homestuck became a thing. This looks like an attempt. Then again, lots of things look like attempts. Who's to say whether this thing originated as a legitimate claim of racism or someone trying to get a rise out of the big huss. I'll admit I was a bit surprised by his response. It genuinely looks like he was bothered by it. From my perspective, he responded as though the unspoken principles behind his art were attacked. But I honestly don't care about this whole non-issue. I just want another update. I could see Hussie continuing here-to-for where all characters' appear to flicker color-ways throughout the spectrum like a sort of kaleidoscope person. EDIT: Yeah, it probably would have been best if he ignored it. Best thing we can do now is move on, because I don't think anyone continuing it is going to end up making things better. Don't want people to start actively protesting Homestuck or something dumb like that eh? TOAST7312 fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 04:58
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Beekeeping and You posted:
Yeah, I started homestuck when the story was at the point just after Jade entered the medium. I recently reread the whole thing and the attic thing is just kinda weird, I still don't really know what is going on there. The Troll Romance thing works a little better as it comes off as just a general "fandom response" that you can get without having really been there. Though I guess the joke loses some impact if you can just skip through that page without waiting.
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Jan 17, 2012 05:23
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Are there any non-white Homestuck fans in this thread? I think it's pretty silly for people to be dismissing racial representation in fiction as a non-issue when they aren't the ones who are going to be made to feel excluded by its absence.
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Jan 17, 2012 05:30
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Happy Fun Bollocks posted:Are there any non-white Homestuck fans in this thread? You racist.
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Jan 17, 2012 05:34
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Hussie made one last post: http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/15992958185/iaeu-eeura It ends with this; quote:FINAL TLDR YO
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Jan 17, 2012 05:36
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Pleasant Friend posted:The first big problem is some of you think Hussie cares deeply about racism and thinks of it as something of great gravity. I think it's pretty obvious from his past works that Hussie is light-hearted when it comes to this issue and he is just pointing out the plain fact that everyone is a little racist. "They are only “indisputably” white because of the social and cultural associations you are making yourself, between the backgrounds and behaviors of these characters, and those you assign to white people as a general rule." "And to actually get indignant at the suggestion that race is canonically non-applicable, because you think it’s JUST SO OBVIOUS all these kids are white? That’s the ugliness of bigotry surfacing. Bigotry not only blinds you to ways you are in error, but triggers an automated response of anger to differing points of view. And then you don’t even realize that’s what happened. It’s not a great way to be." Nope, this is Hussie pulling out the "no it's you who are racist" card. Then when he gets called out calling Dave a white guy, he erases it and his fans defend it as some sort of meta joke. The characters are all obviously white. It's natural, hes writing what he knows.
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Jan 17, 2012 05:38
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This entire episode is disappointing, but just shows you can't expect every creator to be reliably good on social issues. I hope someone he respects has a quiet word to him about privilege and 'colorblind' language.
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Jan 17, 2012 05:48
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Terror Sweat posted:Nope, this is Hussie pulling out the "no it's you who are racist" card. Then when he gets called out calling Dave a white guy, he erases it and his fans defend it as some sort of meta joke. The characters are all obviously white. It's natural, hes writing what he knows. I think it can be spun as 'it was all a joke', or 'i was angry and covered it up'. But I don't think it's necessarily to state either of these as fact based on one's own opinion. Let the man believe in his artistic principles, whether they are real or just covering up for something else. I think it's more like: "I wrote it this way, but the characters can be whatever your mind wants them to be because I'm not changing it." EDIT: In retrospect; I personally granted him reasonable doubt. I didn't start throwing bullshit around based on a few things that specify race a few years ago, or the fact he changed them. I mean seriously, would you like it if some guy walked up to you and punched you for cutting him off on the highway 3 years ago? People make mistakes, his vision has changed since then. Joke or no, everyone needs to settle down and stop judging everything that happens as 'racism' or 'joke'. You know, that whole 'everything isn't black and white' thing? If I handed you a book that was ironically titled "Best loving Book Ever", would you believe it? :P TOAST7312 fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 05:51
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Terror Sweat posted:"They are only “indisputably” white because of the social and cultural associations you are making yourself, between the backgrounds and behaviors of these characters, and those you assign to white people as a general rule." I'm going to be fair let you digest his latest post and make any amendments if you want before I reply. annatar posted:This entire episode is disappointing, but just shows you can't expect every creator to be reliably good on social issues. You must be very new to this fandom if this is really the line you're drawing when it comes to social acceptability. Did "huge bitch" just not concern you? Were Hussie's Wizardology books inoffensive? I'm just curious why this incident is the one you think he needs a talking to about?
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Jan 17, 2012 05:59
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annatar posted:This entire episode is disappointing, but just shows you can't expect every creator to be reliably good on social issues. I guess the other option is having a lovely glee cast of 'positive' stereotypes where black girls can be sassy, sexy AND smart or 'reverse' stereotypes where asian people can be DITZY! snucks fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 06:02
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Are people trolling the thread? Some of the things a few of you are saying don't make a whole lot of sense to me. (Most people are being pretty reasonable, though) Seems like things are getting blown way out of proportion on this.
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Jan 17, 2012 06:04
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I usually try to avoid these kind of discussions, because where I live racial equality isn't really a thing I ever need to deal with so I don't usually notice that stuff but;snucks posted:Hussie has clearly been super sensitive on giving homestuck a gender-balanced cast, and I always a little uncomfortable with the fact that he did the complete opposite in terms of race. I'm assuming its because Hussie isn't close to non-white people and feels uncomfortable writing about them? I'm not sure I understand this argument, really. The entire human cast of the story are about nine characters, with all of them except maybe dad all being interrelated to at least half the others. The sample size is so ludicrously tiny that any imbalance of race doesn't strike me as relevant. I can agree on the "positive stereotyping" thing though, if I see one more webcomic where all the guys are total wacky dumbasses and the only female character is just there to be a sarcastic straight-woman I will punch a baby. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 17, 2012 |
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Jan 17, 2012 06:11
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That new post more or less squares things away, as far as I'm concerned, being more or less what I hoped to hear? In any case his position makes a lot more sense to me now.
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Jan 17, 2012 06:13
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OMG don't care. Go back to making panels hussie, and go back to circlejerking on tumblr drama bombs.
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Jan 17, 2012 06:14
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| # ? May 15, 2024 12:39 |
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Seriously, the cast essentially is inbred as poo poo (but paradoxically), it's impossible for the comic to have a happy convenient race balance amongst the characters based on current demographics because if John is something besides white, so is Jade and at least one of Jake and Jane, same deal with Dave/Jade and Dirk/Roxy.
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Jan 17, 2012 06:17
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