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Walk it off Frank, you'll be fine.
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Jan 13, 2012 01:00
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Vakal posted:Walk it off Frank, you'll be fine. I think every single internal organ he had outside of his brain was either torn to shreds or riddled with bullets by the end of the issue.
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Jan 13, 2012 04:41
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Surely that's it, what with all the flashbacks and such, there's no way he could survive what he went through in this issue. I mean, sure, if we were talking the 616 Frank, yeah, something could fix him up in 5 minutes but as far as the MAX version goes, he must be bowing out for good.
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Jan 13, 2012 04:47
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While I wouldn't doubt Frank's on his way out, there's always the open plot thread of the Hand and how they supposedly don't want Frank dead. They could be the deus ex machina that fixes him up.
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Jan 13, 2012 06:03
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I have a feeling that if the series wasn't ending next issue (it is next issue, right?) the Hand bringing him back/keeping him alive is exactly what would happen. But as it is, I think he's dead as a doornail here.
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Jan 13, 2012 08:27
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TheJoker138 posted:I have a feeling that if the series wasn't ending next issue (it is next issue, right?) the Hand bringing him back/keeping him alive is exactly what would happen. But as it is, I think he's dead as a doornail here. The comic might be ending for now, but Punisher Max is an immensely profitable, critically acclaimed and iconic character for Marvel, and it would be really insane of them to just permanently close the door on him.
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Jan 13, 2012 08:31
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Lurdiak posted:The comic might be ending for now, but Punisher Max is an immensely profitable, critically acclaimed and iconic character for Marvel, and it would be really insane of them to just permanently close the door on him. Is it that profitable? How has it been selling? It seems to me like they're pretty much killing the entire MAX line, with both this and Deadpool getting canned soon.
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Jan 13, 2012 08:44
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The thing is you can kill Frank Castle from Punisher Max and relaunch a different "adult" Punisher book. While they're similar in tone Punisher Max and The Punisher: Frank Castle don't share too many direct connections and it wouldn't be too hard to do the same with a new series.
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Jan 13, 2012 14:32
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TheJoker138 posted:Is it that profitable? How has it been selling? It seems to me like they're pretty much killing the entire MAX line, with both this and Deadpool getting canned soon. Deadpool's sales, Max especially, have been going down for a while. Deadpool Max is getting pretty unpopular: http://www.deadpoolbugle.com/2012/01/december-2011-deadpool-sales-data.html
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Jan 13, 2012 17:28
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Lurdiak posted:The comic might be ending for now, but Punisher Max is an immensely profitable, critically acclaimed and iconic character for Marvel, and it would be really insane of them to just permanently close the door on him. Iconic and acclaimed, maybe, but Punisher hasn't been a top seller for years now. Even when the Ennis run was getting all sorts of praise, it never sold more than 35,000 copies a month according to The Beat. Now that the hype's gone I can see sales dropping into the toilet. Maybe it does better in trades, though. It's always possible the MAX Nick Fury will turn up and patch him together, but as others have pointed out the MAX line is going away. If they're gonna kill Frank off, now's the best time to do it. They've already got a younger new Punisher active in the main line anyway, so they might as well go out with a bang.
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Jan 13, 2012 19:08
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I suppose they could do another relaunch with The Hand making him their leader after healing/reviving him, with Nick Fury opposing him, but considering they just tried that with DD (who, mind you is a very different character), it might be viewed pretty negatively.
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Jan 13, 2012 20:00
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I'd say it's way more likely that you see Sarah O'Brien show up as Punisher: Next Generation or something. Aaron did go out of his way to show a single panel in the last issue of Barracuda holding her baby carrier.
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Jan 15, 2012 05:34
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Wanderer posted:I'd say it's way more likely that you see Sarah O'Brien show up as Punisher: Next Generation or something. Aaron did go out of his way to show a single panel in the last issue of Barracuda holding her baby carrier. Got a picture?
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Jan 15, 2012 09:47
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I find Wanderer's suggestion extremely unlikely (no offense), but here's the page from issue 21:
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Jan 15, 2012 11:25
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I really think that panel was only there to show what kind of poo poo happens to his family when he's around them. Look at the panel it's directly under. I don't think it's foreshadowing anything in particular, it's just flashes of his life that happened as he was being beaten (almost) to death there.
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Jan 15, 2012 18:56
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I also think that scene is a slight nod that PunisherMAX is a continuity of Ennis' MAX series, since there's been (some) debate as to if this new Punisher series is in the same universe or not.
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Jan 15, 2012 19:20
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notthegoatseguy posted:I also think that scene is a slight nod that PunisherMAX is a continuity of Ennis' MAX series, since there's been (some) debate as to if this new Punisher series is in the same universe or not. Has there? I thought they had previously made some pretty blatant references to it, going as far back as Marvel Knights stuff?
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Jan 15, 2012 19:42
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TheJoker138 posted:Has there? I thought they had previously made some pretty blatant references to it, going as far back as Marvel Knights stuff? I personally never doubted it. But I think this thread even had some debate early in Aaron's run. My understanding is that the Ennis MAX series is it's own continuity and Aaron's Punisher continues from that. And that there is a separate, 616 continuity with the Marvel Knights Punisher series he did earlier (which feature superheroes and a non old-as-gently caress Nick Fury).
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Jan 15, 2012 19:49
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notthegoatseguy posted:I personally never doubted it. But I think this thread even had some debate early in Aaron's run. I actually think that a lot of the Marvel Knights stuff does continuity double duty, as I know Ennis made reference to the Gnucci's and the Russian in MAX.
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Jan 15, 2012 19:54
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TheJoker138 posted:I actually think that a lot of the Marvel Knights stuff does continuity double duty, as I know Ennis made reference to the Gnucci's and the Russian in MAX. I'll take your word for it. I've only sporadically read Punisher runs (including Ennis' non-Max and MAX stuff) until Fraction did War Journalv2 during Civil War. Maybe it's just me, but the current 616 Punisher title seems to be pretty drat dark. Outside of being able to show tits and curse without using $%#@%%^$#, what does a MAX title do that the current 616 Punisher title can't?
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Jan 15, 2012 22:23
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TheJoker138 posted:I really think that panel was only there to show what kind of poo poo happens to his family when he's around them. Look at the panel it's directly under. I don't think it's foreshadowing anything in particular, it's just flashes of his life that happened as he was being beaten (almost) to death there. Oh, I'm not saying it's what's going to happen. I do think it's odd that out of all of the flashbacks in the last few issues, that's the only one referring back to anything in the past volume of MAX at all: nothing about Yorkie Mitchell, nothing about Microchip, nothing about Kathryn O'Brien. I wouldn't be surprised if it was foreshadowing something.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:08
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Wanderer posted:Oh, I'm not saying it's what's going to happen. I do think it's odd that out of all of the flashbacks in the last few issues, that's the only one referring back to anything in the past volume of MAX at all: nothing about Yorkie Mitchell, nothing about Microchip, nothing about Kathryn O'Brien. I wouldn't be surprised if it was foreshadowing something. You could argue that we're seeing the moments that affected him deeply, which is why they're all prior to his becoming the Punisher except for one. The deaths of Micro, Yorkie and O'Brien happen when he's mostly beyond deep feelings. Even if those people were his friends (or as close to friends as he can get), in the end they were just 3 more dead bodies in a life that's been full of them. I got a little chill up my spine from writing that. I can't imagine being so far gone emotionally that I'm barely affected by the deaths of some of the only people who gave a drat about me.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:19
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picosecond posted:You could argue that we're seeing the moments that affected him deeply, which is why they're all prior to his becoming the Punisher except for one. The deaths of Micro, Yorkie and O'Brien happen when he's mostly beyond deep feelings. Even if those people were his friends (or as close to friends as he can get), in the end they were just 3 more dead bodies in a life that's been full of them. The big difference is that Micro betrayed him, and Yorkie and O'Brien, despite being friends, weren't family. Everything they showed in the issue, and his arc as a whole, was about his family.
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Jan 16, 2012 04:54
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There's still plenty of areas that could be explored in a Max title, I've honestly wanted to read a Punisher year one similar to tone of Hulk / Spiderman books they did a while back with Tim Sale. It'd be great to look at that character in the 70s and 80s.
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Jan 16, 2012 05:47
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Hollis posted:There's still plenty of areas that could be explored in a Max title, I've honestly wanted to read a Punisher year one similar to tone of Hulk / Spiderman books they did a while back with Tim Sale. Yeah especially the bit where he blew up the earth-orbital crack den and jet packed away to safety on a CIA space shuttle.
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Jan 16, 2012 18:16
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Sion posted:Yeah especially the bit where he blew up the earth-orbital crack den and jet packed away to safety on a CIA space shuttle. I can't tell if you're joking or not, but if you're not, what issue does this happen in because it sounds unironically awesome.
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Jan 16, 2012 19:02
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not, but if you're not, what issue does this happen in because it sounds unironically awesome.  I don't even know if this is what Sion is talking about, but hell, it's close enough. My dream is to one day own the original art of this. redbackground fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 20:36
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gently caress yes. Thank you.
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Jan 16, 2012 20:37
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redbackground posted:I love posting this cover: I want to get this image tattooed across my back.
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Jan 17, 2012 07:22
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poo poo, it's only $2 on Amazon, too. loving bargain.
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Jan 17, 2012 14:39
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redbackground posted:I love posting this cover: Goddamn, I had written off all of the Punisher stuff from the '80s as garbage. But I didn't know it was loving awesome garbage. I may have to check this out.
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Jan 18, 2012 06:06
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Am I right to be bothered that the entry is in the huge fuel tank and not the shuttle itself?
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Jan 18, 2012 12:42
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I re-read Homeless the other night before giving it to my mom to read and I can't figure out why Frank dug up Fisk's kid. I mean, I understand it's to get Fisk out of the tower but then he brought it to his wife's house (?) and then Elektra is there and we never see the body again, right? Maybe the Hand will res him, because otherwise it sort of seems like it was just a shock-value plot point, to me at least.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:02
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Bitchin Kitchen posted:I re-read Homeless the other night before giving it to my mom to read and I can't figure out why Frank dug up Fisk's kid. I mean, I understand it's to get Fisk out of the tower but then he brought it to his wife's house (?) and then Elektra is there and we never see the body again, right? Maybe the Hand will res him, because otherwise it sort of seems like it was just a shock-value plot point, to me at least. I figure Frank tried to appeal to Fisk's human side to try and get him out of his tower, first by stealing his kid's corpse and then by planning to murder his wife. Elektra, who was being paid by Fisk's wife to murder him, screwed Frank's plan though by inconveniently being there, and then Fisk realized he didn't give a poo poo about anyone but himself and went back to his tower.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:28
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Oh poo poo so he was going to have Fisk's family dead in front of him like his was, you think? That makes sense, I forgot that Elektra being there would be a spanner in the works of whatever plan Frank had going anyways.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:31
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I thought that was a callback to the Nicky Cavella storyline from a few years earlier. Remember when that mob guy dug up Frank's family's remains and pissed on them, then released the video? Remember how Frank flipped out and walked into what he knew was a trap, because he saw a chance to kill the fucker and couldn't pass it up? My take on it was that Frank figured, "Hey, that worked on me and I'm a cold-hearted bastard. He's one too, maybe it'll work on him."
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Jan 19, 2012 18:50
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I have not actually read that story. That is really something else. I take it this Nicky Cavella wished he'd never been born? Do you happen to know the name of that story arc? I need to start buying Ye Olde Punisher Max.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:52
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I thought he dug up his kid to make the Kingpin look bad and undermine his authority the only thing that would get to him. Fisk wasn't angry he dug up his kid, but would be angry that everyone else would say" That punisher guy dug up Fisk's kid and Kingpin didn't do poo poo to him." It just undermines his authority. Something that has been shown to get to Kingpin.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:55
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Bitchin Kitchen posted:I have not actually read that story. That is really something else. I take it this Nicky Cavella wished he'd never been born? Do you happen to know the name of that story arc? I need to start buying Ye Olde Punisher Max. "Up is Down, Black is White" - Max issues 19-24.
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Jan 19, 2012 19:09
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Javid posted:"Up is Down, Black is White" - Max issues 19-24. He should really read every storyline before that too, though, as it's a culmination of almost all of them.
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Jan 19, 2012 19:34
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