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mutata posted:Most of us have a poo poo job in our pasts. It actually helps in gaining valuable perspective and making one wiser in the future. Plus, I feel it helps remind us all what the worth of a person is and how little certain people value others and how poo poo it feels to be walked all over. In other words, if you can escape ok and with your character intact, experiences like these can help make things smoother for you and your clients in the future. This. quote:On a related note: try to never work for realtors either. Also this. Also, don't forget to steal office supplies on your way out.
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Dec 13, 2011 22:23
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mutata posted:Most of us have a poo poo job in our pasts. It actually helps in gaining valuable perspective and making one wiser in the future. Plus, I feel it helps remind us all what the worth of a person is and how little certain people value others and how poo poo it feels to be walked all over. In other words, if you can escape ok and with your character intact, experiences like these can help make things smoother for you and your clients in the future. I really do hope it makes things better in the future! I'll certainly learn to say 'no' more loudly next time. And I'll learn to only let people 'amend' something a certain number of times.. I promise to never work for realtors! pipes! posted:
It's a confectionery company, I'm going to eat as much cake as possible before I leave! I just need to make sure I can still fit through the door on my last day...
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Dec 13, 2011 23:35
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SleeplessInEngland posted:I really do hope it makes things better in the future! I'll certainly learn to say 'no' more loudly next time. And I'll learn to only let people 'amend' something a certain number of times.. Always remember that even in this lovely economic climate you have rights. As a designer, only experience will teach you how to identify poison clients/employers and learning how to say no to them is a big step. When you're looking for your next apprenticeship/job, remember to interview your employers. You have as much right to scrutinize them for a good fit as they do. Just this year I turned down an ongoing illustration project that would have certainly brought in better money than my current day job. I did so because it would be drawing comics for a slick oil industry magazine: a pathetic attempt to indoctrinate kids. I thought hard about if I could sneak my own subersive messages in there, but what really turned me off more than the idiology was my potential employer (actually the company copywriter, but this was his pet project.) Don't get me wrong, he was an honestly decent guy at heart who even had a good healthy respect for designers/illustrators, but whenever he talked I drifted off he was so boring. I realized if I can't listen to this guy talk in a relaxed cigar club setting, we would sure have trouble communicating once the deadlines got tight. We were a bad fit, period, so I let the opportunity go and focused on working on something I believed in instead. Even for no pay (yet) I'm drat sure I did the right thing, because I'm working towards a greater goal. Other people would have said yes, and may even call me crazy for turning down pay and portfolio. Fair enough, but I've worked long and hard enough to know where I stand, where I want to be, and what's healthy for me. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Dec 14, 2011 |
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Dec 14, 2011 00:35
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SleeplessInEngland posted:Thank you so much for the insight everyone, you're all completely right and I'm just being stupid staying in this job. I've realised how ridiculous it is to stay here out of fear of never getting hired again. I had a really terrible day today where I found out that one of the few things they've actually taught me is completely wrong and I realised that not only am I being used at this place but that what little I'm being taught isn't even right in the first place. At the end of the day, that's going to impact my career much more than quitting a crap job where I'm not learning anything. You can find another apprenticeship. You would be surprised in the long run how little this will matter. Just focus on the next step, and the big, swift one away from this one. It's better to learn the respect and boundaries things while the stakes are low (no money, some amount of recourse, and you can get another apprenticeship), and not on your first $5,000+ job or something.
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Dec 14, 2011 07:43
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Stuporstar posted:Always remember that even in this lovely economic climate you have rights. As a designer, only experience will teach you how to identify poison clients/employers and learning how to say no to them is a big step. When you're looking for your next apprenticeship/job, remember to interview your employers. You have as much right to scrutinize them for a good fit as they do. I'll definitely be more careful what jobs I take next time.. I think I was just so eager to even get offered an interview in this climate that I took the job without even thinking about whether it was going to be good for me. Plus when I first interviewed they did seem great and like they genuinely wanted to provide me with the opportunity to learn. At least I'll know for next time. Turning down such a huge job is brave! Do you work freelance as well then? Is that the way most designers/illustrators keep going in between 'large' jobs? Disreputable Dog posted:You can find another apprenticeship. Yeah, I'd be really miserable if I'd gone to uni, come out, got a 'big' job and THEN been treated like this. In some ways I expected my first job to be rubbish (Not this rubbish), it's just a bit disheartening when you give so much effort and try so hard and people just take advantage of that! I've applied for another apprenticeship already but I'm worried it'll be just like this one. What if I'm just jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? I've also contacted the college I found the apprenticeship through but they haven't got back to me yet. SleeplessInEngland fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 14, 2011 |
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Dec 14, 2011 16:18
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Some disclosure here: My first job out of school was a designer's "dream job" on paper, but it turned out to be a huge, exploitative mess that not only set me back years in skill acquisition, but also more-or-less destroyed my personal life; all because I was too stubborn to walk away. It took them literally running out of money due to mismanagement for me to realize that perhaps it wasn't an ideal situation to be in. I'm glad that you're listening to the advice here, I wish I had someone telling me the same when I was in that similar predicament.SleeplessInEngland posted:Turning down such a huge job is brave! Do you work freelance as well then? Is that the way most designers/illustrators keep going in between 'large' jobs? It wasn't too difficult to find freelance work when I was between jobs, but unless you're wanting to go whole-hog freelancer, you definitely have to adjust your lifestyle. The assignments weren't always all that glamorous, either, but at least it was consistent. Kill your ego and do work that you think will get you where you want to be, success usually begets success for this sort of thing. I'm also a huge proponent of the personal project. There's literally nothing stopping you from thinking up a dream assignment and following through on it, then using it for your portfolio if you think it's up to snuff.
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Dec 14, 2011 17:21
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pipes! posted:I'm also a huge proponent of the personal project. There's literally nothing stopping you from thinking up a dream assignment and following through on it, then using it for your portfolio if you think it's up to snuff. Any amount of success I've had so far in my art career is because of this.
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Dec 14, 2011 19:07
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pipes! posted:Some disclosure here: My first job out of school was a designer's "dream job" on paper, but it turned out to be a huge, exploitative mess that not only set me back years in skill acquisition, but also more-or-less destroyed my personal life; all because I was too stubborn to walk away. It took them literally running out of money due to mismanagement for me to realize that perhaps it wasn't an ideal situation to be in. I'm glad that you're listening to the advice here, I wish I had someone telling me the same when I was in that similar predicament. That situation just sounds toxic, I hope you got paid when the money ran out! Reading what you and others have said about past jobs has made me realise just how much crap young designers will put up with for the promise of work but it's also made me realise that just because I'm young doesn't mean I need to stay in a poo poo situation. I'm inexperienced so I'll gladly take unglamorous jobs but I'll never put up with being treated badly again. The idea of a personal project sounds pretty cool! I've never really done a set project before so I'll give it a go. Using Freelance to get by for a while sounds good but I'm not entirely sure where to look. Should I find people looking for freelance designers or would I be better off just advertising my services? I've already found one job but I'm not sure they'll pay much because they advertised for a 'student designer'. I also got a reply from the college tonight and I registered my concerns. They're going to look into whether or not the company has broken their contract with me. They're going to contact me tomorrow to decide where to go from there. I just really want to say thanks again to everyone who's given me advice and to let you know that I am taking this seriously and it has got through to me  thank you so much
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Dec 14, 2011 23:25
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mutata posted:Any amount of success I've had so far in my art career is because of this. The sheer amount of failure I've had in my freelance design career is because I didn't care enough about what I wanted and took crappy assignments just to pay the bills. In the past decade I became the exact model of what not to do. I had a whole client-base of cheap assholes who didn't give a drat about the finished product as long as it looked vaguely presentable and fit their minuscule budget. For the first couple years I didn't even have a solid pre-drafted contract to draw on, so I let myself get screwed over and over. I burnt myself out on crappy projects to the point where I didn't have the energy left to pursue my own personal projects. I spent a year or more completely depressed (other horrible poo poo in my personal life contributed to my downfall) and eventually I just quit altogether and got a crappy day job. I was so risk adverse that I developed a pathological fear of failure, that led me to fail so hard I had nothing left to fear. I basically started over from scratch, on my own again living like a student on a part time job so I could take the time to re-evaluate my whole life and build a new personal portfolio full of poo poo I cared about. I know I will make this project work for me because I'm passionate about it and am willing to put in the time and effort, and make the sacrifices necessary to succeed. I may be poor right now, funnelling my minor budget into paying myself as my own patron, but I've never been happier. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Dec 15, 2011 |
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Dec 14, 2011 23:58
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I think I'm going back to school, I think I'm going to get a MFA in Creative Writing, and I think I'm going to Boston University. Here's the back story: I have a super-eclectic resume right now. A degree in Film/Television production from a reputable college, extensive experience in commercial production, credits in short and feature film production, an ongoing but sporadic freelance graphic design career, a published novel (though admittedly not a huge deal), some paid classroom and speaking experience for middle-to-high school aged kids, and currently I manage a small (very small) publishing company (of children's books) that has allowed me to write/illustrate a few of my own titles and develop interesting non-book products. I've got enough experience in several related fields to turn my weird skill set into a career, but I'm sure I'd be starting at the bottom of wherever I go because I'm one of those "jack of all trades - master of none" kind of dudes. So I'm going back to school. I think. Am I retarded for wanting to get a MFA in Creative Writing? I've had enough experience in video production to know that it's not where I want to make a career. Storytelling has always been the driving force behind my work/art and I've always been an interested and active writer. I love school and academia in general and think I could be very happy teaching at a university if that's what the masters boils down to, but I also think I could benefit a lot personally and use the education to better my own work and eventually get more credible publishing experience. BASICALLY: Does anyone have or know someone who has a MFA in Creative Writing? What are you/they doing with it? What do they WISH they were doing with it? If they're unhappy with the MFA, what do they with they had done instead? Additionally, if I do go ahead and seek out my own MFA in CW, any suggestions about where to go? I've been most seriously considering Boston University because I like the way their program is structured, know someone with a comparable masters from there, and can even choose to blast through the program in one year if I decide I really hate having a social life and/or my sanity. But I'm definitely open to other suggestions.
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Dec 15, 2011 02:14
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SleeplessInEngland posted:Using Freelance to get by for a while sounds good but I'm not entirely sure where to look. Should I find people looking for freelance designers or would I be better off just advertising my services? I've already found one job but I'm not sure You could try AdJobWall and Concept Cupboard, they're both good for legitimate internships and freelance projects. They're both a bit skewed towards advertising and branding because that's what I do, but still good for a start if that's not what you're heading into. Do you live in London? That obviously helps a lot when looking for work.
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Dec 15, 2011 14:57
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marshmallard posted:You could try AdJobWall and Concept Cupboard, they're both good for legitimate internships and freelance projects. They're both a bit skewed towards advertising and branding because that's what I do, but still good for a start if that's not what you're heading into. Thanks for the links! Unfortunately I don't live in London and I don't think I'd earn enough to be able to afford to commute everyday. I think the thing I'm finding is that no one really wants to hire an apprentice, they all want graduates for junior positions.
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Dec 15, 2011 20:09
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marshmallard posted:You could try AdJobWall and Concept Cupboard, they're both good for legitimate internships and freelance projects. They're both a bit skewed towards advertising and branding because that's what I do, but still good for a start if that's not what you're heading into. Are there versions of these sites for 'Mericans?
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Dec 16, 2011 19:39
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SleeplessInEngland posted:Thanks for the links! Unfortunately I don't live in London and I don't think I'd earn enough to be able to afford to commute everyday. I think the thing I'm finding is that no one really wants to hire an apprentice, they all want graduates for junior positions. Fair enough. The Concept Cupboard projects are all ones you can do from home, and it's good practice. Ad Job Wall posts opportunities all over the country but obviously because the majority of the industry is in London, the majority of the jobs are too. Whereabouts are you?
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Dec 16, 2011 19:57
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SheepThrowinBoy posted:Am I retarded for wanting to get a MFA in Creative Writing? I've had enough experience in video production to know that it's not where I want to make a career. Storytelling has always been the driving force behind my work/art and I've always been an interested and active writer. I love school and academia in general and think I could be very happy teaching at a university if that's what the masters boils down to, but I also think I could benefit a lot personally and use the education to better my own work and eventually get more credible publishing experience. Suggestions of where to go: a place in the top 10, a place that will give you a free ride. No exceptions. PS. MFA admissions care about 1 thing: your writing sample. They give no shits about any other eclectic stuff you've done with your life quote:
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Dec 17, 2011 08:53
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marshmallard posted:Fair enough. The Concept Cupboard projects are all ones you can do from home, and it's good practice. Ad Job Wall posts opportunities all over the country but obviously because the majority of the industry is in London, the majority of the jobs are too. Yeah, I really liked the Concept Cupboard website. It seems like even if I don't get paid for any work I do on there, it'd still be great practise and good stuff to put in my portfolio. I'm in Leicester at the minute but I'm looking for jobs around Birmingham and Nottingham too. They're about the same distance as London is for me but they cost about a third of the price to get to!
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Dec 17, 2011 14:33
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Defenestration posted:
To be honest, it's not even worth mentioning. I may not even include it in my applications. It's the kind of thing that looks good on a resume as long as you're not applying to somewhere/someone that has any idea how book publishing happens. It's a "political thriller" co-authored with my dad (his concept, my narrative) and I'm 99.9% sure our "publisher" is a lovely vanity press scam. I did spend about 6 months on a book signing tour (that I set up almost entirely on my own) and managed to sell out of books at almost every engagement, so I'm not entirely ashamed of the ordeal, but it's still just enough of a joke that I'm afraid will get me laughed out of an MFA program if I mention it. It was/is distributed by Ingram (which I'm sure is the only reason I was able to set up a decent tour in major chains), but like I said the publisher, Tate, is an egregious scam and staffed by the most untalented, uncaring assholes I've ever dealt with. It's all better considered as a learning experience than as a credit on my CV.
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Dec 18, 2011 00:23
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Speaking of freelanceing, how exactly does billing typically work for this type of work anyway? So for example, were I to decide that my work was worth $50 an hour (hahahaha! No one wants my poo poo yet) and on average a finished illustration would take 20-30 hours to complete, what would I need to charge up front? Would I be able to get weekly/bi-weekly paychecks or do freelancers normally get paid at the end? What about revisions? Does a revision just add hours or can I charge a higher rate? Would said revision knock back the payment date or would that be something I add on after the fact? Its not like I'm in demand or have a client yet but you never know and I'd at least like to have a rough idea of how this stuff works before I go diving with the sharks. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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Dec 21, 2011 01:45
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readingatwork posted:Speaking of freelanceing, how exactly does billing typically work for this type of work anyway? Typically for newer clients (or what I perceive as unreliable), I take 30-50% upfront, depending on the project. For clients that have a proven track record I waive that deposit. Freelancing you will learn that it is feast or famine, where you will get paid for a few projects all at once, then nothing for a couple weeks. Utilizing my invoices, I have a disclaimer at the bottom that all bills will come due 30 days after the invoice is generated. If no arrangements have been made before hand, a 10% surcharge will be added to tardy payments. Usually, I do not bill out on projects until they are completed, but if there is no contact from the client within a certain amount of time, I typically send them a reminder email, then if I get no response, I invoice for the time I put into the project. Each of my clients are a little different. Some like to have a running total bi-weekly, another wants to pay me when she gets paid (I freelance for a design firm). Discussing the terms of how they want to pay is ideal, since it gives them the sense that they have a say on how they are going to get billed from me.
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Dec 21, 2011 02:57
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Saveron_01 posted:Typically for newer clients (or what I perceive as unreliable), I take 30-50% upfront, depending on the project. For clients that have a proven track record I waive that deposit. Freelancing you will learn that it is feast or famine, where you will get paid for a few projects all at once, then nothing for a couple weeks. Utilizing my invoices, I have a disclaimer at the bottom that all bills will come due 30 days after the invoice is generated. If no arrangements have been made before hand, a 10% surcharge will be added to tardy payments. This is a great setup, but also consider in terms of "clients disappearing" -- I've had a few wander off for 6, 8 weeks at a time and then expect work to have magically happened (sans feedback, naturally). It's wise to put a kill fee ("okay you get me sketching and then cancel the project") price in the contract, as well as a clause about "expression of non interest" or something where the client fucks off for months and you don't hear from them and the project is in limbo. You should have a clause about that and how you will invoice in that scenario.
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Dec 21, 2011 06:28
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Disreputable Dog posted:This is a great setup, but also consider in terms of "clients disappearing" -- I've had a few wander off for 6, 8 weeks at a time and then expect work to have magically happened (sans feedback, naturally). It's wise to put a kill fee ("okay you get me sketching and then cancel the project") price in the contract, as well as a clause about "expression of non interest" or something where the client fucks off for months and you don't hear from them and the project is in limbo. You should have a clause about that and how you will invoice in that scenario. Well, I generally keep in constant contact with the client to let them know what stage the project is in, or submit to them partial *LOCKED* PDF proofs for them to review if it is a large project. If at any stage I fail to hear from them, works stops until such time they respond (unless they are a trusted client). Lately, most of my work has only been from my trusted clients, so the non-interest clause is not really needed. I do have to stress the need to protect your work, locked PDF proofs, proof stamps and watermarks protect not only you, but your client.
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Dec 21, 2011 18:29
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I haven't read this, but I'm seeing it recommended around the Internet, and maybe people here can weigh in: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...ASIN=1844676862 It's a book titled "Intern Nation: How to Earn Nothing and Learn Little in the Brave New Economy" and breaks down the many, many problems with exploitative internships in America these days. Probably a good read for creative types in school trying to break into their industries. There's a difference between an entry-level "gotta-serve-your-time" job or internship and being exploited, and that isn't always clear. At the very least, you should be able to learn to recognize what you're getting yourself into before you choose to dive in, or how to recognize a poisonous situation you find yourself in before too long.
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Dec 27, 2011 07:29
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There's also the Carrot Workers to check out for a more activist take on it.
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Dec 27, 2011 15:08
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readingatwork posted:Speaking of freelanceing, how exactly does billing typically work for this type of work anyway? Let me just say, having freelanced animation/websites/logos for clients, you WILL be getting asked for revisions. Most of the clients I've dealt with either can't make up their mind on how they want something to look or they'll see some flashy new advert and change their mind about the look completely. No joke, my latest client has changed their mind FOUR times in the last month of just what kind of animation they want. In such a case, I push the arrival date further and charge a larger fee. Some base pay on hourly rate, but I usually do a flat-fee system based on an estimate for hourly rates. It's risky for lower-profile clients, but it makes the paperwork much easier. I usually try to work out a half-now/half-later type deal so I know they are serious. Also, what you charge is entirely dependent on the client. If it's a non-profit or small business, they're probably not going to have a lot of money to spend so I try to go a tad lower than usual just to gain an edge on the competition. If it's a big client, you can charge a little more. And if it's a big client who has no idea about the process for freelancing multimedia ventures, charge them lots more. One of my contacts actually told me once to charge whatever I wanted for the client they were referring stating they were new to this type of work and have plenty of money. Most importantly, make them SIGN SIGN SIGN everything from contracts to invoices so you don't get screwed over. Look up some templates, revise them for your freelancing and send them on over to your latest client once they agree to hire you.
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Dec 30, 2011 06:54
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One of my professors includes a revision limit in his contracts. Something like 2 revisions are covered by the initial quote and every additional revision after that costs x amount of dollars. Just a thought.
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Dec 30, 2011 07:23
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FrostedButts posted:Let me just say, having freelanced animation/websites/logos for clients, you WILL be getting asked for revisions. Most of the clients I've dealt with either can't make up their mind on how they want something to look or they'll see some flashy new advert and change their mind about the look completely. No joke, my latest client has changed their mind FOUR times in the last month of just what kind of animation they want. In such a case, I push the arrival date further and charge a larger fee. This and all the responses on this topic were incredibly helpfull. Thanks!
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Dec 30, 2011 21:51
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Defenestration posted:
Do you have any opinion on low-res programs? I've been toying around with the idea of doing that, even though they aren't fully funded. I figure that if I can work part-time while I do it, it will pretty much even out and it seems like a better option for me because I have a kid and husband I can't easily uproot.
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Jan 10, 2012 04:54
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My company's hiring for the following positions: Lead Developer Art Director Associate Art Director Graphic Designer It's a good place to work in Northern NJ. PM or email me for more info. PCJ-600 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 18, 2012 |
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Jan 18, 2012 20:38
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My new website is up. Hosted by Deviantart but via my own domain name. Looking for any advice on things to change before promoting it. http://www.michaelhfusco.com My primary concern is that the images might be too high quality and thus could be subject to plagiarism. Perhaps watermarks?
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Jan 22, 2012 09:56
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eggyolk posted:My new website is up. Hosted by Deviantart but via my own domain name. Looking for any advice on things to change before promoting it. What's your goal for the website? To get work? What specific type of work? Does the site best assist that goal with the minimum amount of clicks? I'd also be more concerned with load times with your high-res images than plagiarism, but my connection sucks, so I'm not the best to judge that.
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Jan 23, 2012 07:41
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I'd never considered load times, none of them are over 500kb as far as I know. The site itself isn't for business purposes, just to show people a range of capabilities, as well as showing personal connection specific projects. I'm not really looking for work, just ease of accessibility for others to see what I'm creating.
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Jan 23, 2012 09:07
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eggyolk posted:I'd never considered load times, none of them are over 500kb as far as I know. The site itself isn't for business purposes, just to show people a range of capabilities, as well as showing personal connection specific projects. I'm not really looking for work, just ease of accessibility for others to see what I'm creating. 500kb might still be too high. I think you really should go for 100kb or less and then still use thumbnails of a much smaller size.
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Jan 23, 2012 18:05
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deviledseraphim posted:Do you have any opinion on low-res programs? I've been toying around with the idea of doing that, even though they aren't fully funded. I figure that if I can work part-time while I do it, it will pretty much even out and it seems like a better option for me because I have a kid and husband I can't easily uproot. You can work part time while you do regular programs too. In fact, a lot of people worked full time. (All our classes were 6-9 at night, once a week) I wouldn't recommend full time for your thesis semester though. Or, there are plenty of retreats and nondegree workshops you can take. Retreats are usually a week or two but can be up to a month, and some are pretty prestigious. If you're in a big enough town, there's usually good workshops run by local writers or MFA grads for community members.
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Jan 24, 2012 04:53
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Not sure where to post this, but currently a large traditional/kid's game company is coming to an art school I live by offering a really terrible deal. They have posters up in the school that claim that you can win "cash prizes" and there's "free redbull and pizza" if you come in to sign a contract and doodle up some ideas for their new animated series/toys. The issue is it comes with this contract: http://www.mediafire.com/?5p605jqx7q61kam If you don't know legalese, you're basically signing all rights to your work away to the company. Ownership, rights, credit, any profits you would normally be entitled to. It prevents you from suing or breaking the contract under any circumstances. However, if they are sued for copyright infringement based off of one of your designs, they pass that burden back on to you. Anything you say verbally, write, design or doodle becomes their property - anything. That piece of cold pizza and possible cash prize of undetermined value is all the payment you agreed to. Spin Master is a company that's only surpassed in sales by hasbro, mattel and lego. It makes well over $750 million a year in profits. This practice of going to an art school and exploiting students out of highschool or with very little knowledge of industry contracts is predatory at best. If you know people interested in this company, or have them visiting your area please pass this on.
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Jan 24, 2012 06:01
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I'd like some advice on the merits of Art School. I've been skimming this thread but with 36 pages to go through I decided to just post my problem in the meantime. I was a student at Ringling College of Art & Design, but I had to drop out Sophomore year for medical reasons. I am now ready to return, but I'm wondering if I should? Keep in mind I'm not looking for a perfectly right answer, just advice from people who have been in this situation or know a lot about art schools. Some faculty at Ringling claimed they have a 98% job placement rate after graduation, which was reinforced by the Senior graduating class my Freshman year whom all seemed to end up with decent jobs. My freshman year at Ringling opened up a lot of doors for me as well, with more freelance jobs than I had available before I attended school. Many people also seemed quite impressed with my work and it definitely did appear that the school could help launch my career, and was more than willing to do so, so long as I put in the effort. The problem is that Ringling is a $40k+ a year school. I am dirt poor, so is my family. I had to cover about 20k in expenses in just loans. If I return to school and graduate, It seems likely I'll end up being very much in debt and I am not convinced that even a degree from Ringling would land me a job that could pay that back in any reasonable amount of time. So do I go back and hope the connections I'd gain from Ringling do eventually end up with me being somewhat successful? Or should I skip the schooling and just improve on my own time and start tossing my portfolio around and hope I get a catch?
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Jan 29, 2012 06:26
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Horrible Smutbeast posted:They have posters up in the school that claim that you can win "cash prizes" and there's "free redbull and pizza" if you come in to sign a contract and doodle up some ideas for their new animated series/toys. The issue is it comes with this contract... As far as I understand it, that sort contract is fairly standard in crowd-sourcing contests. Odds are fairly good that most of the people that turn up won't be worth the redbull and pizza to the company. Why? Because, as my edited-out-of-context quote states: quote:going to an art school and exploiting students out of highschool or with very little knowledge of industry Doritos spends millions of dollars making their Super Bowl crowd-sourcing contest in an attempt to ensure that they will, by law of averages, come up with at least one usable idea. The thing is, a lot of people see crowd-sourcing and think, "Hey, we can do that and save a bunch of money." Of course, it isn't that simple: Most people who know how the industry works don't enter contests for pizza and red bull--they enter the industry for cash monies. Which they then use to buy pizza and red bull, I guess. Point is, junior students are nowhere near as good at their craft as they will be when they graduate, and even then it usually (in all the industries I've heard about, anyways) takes years of practise and experience before they become good enough to spearhead their own project. The company most likely isn't looking to bilk a starry-eyed child out of their hard-earned ideas; they're just hoping for a kernel of an idea that their own professional creatives can flesh out and work with. Mind you, if an entire integrated idea that was already spit-polished and market-ready fell into their lap at this event, then yes, the student would have given it away for next to nothing, like the dudes who sold Manhattan Island for twenty bucks and a cup of coffee. But like I said, the odds of someone being that good heading into school are slim-to-none.
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Jan 29, 2012 07:24
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Esroc posted:I'd like some advice on the merits of Art School. I've been skimming this thread but with 36 pages to go through I decided to just post my problem in the meantime. From my experience, the only way you get anywhere in this industry is based on who you know. You won't get anywhere on work alone unless you're really, REALLY, BLOW-EVERYONE-ELSE-OUT-OF-THE-WATER good! I don't mean 'most of my friends like my work' good; I'm talking 'I submitted my work to three big festivals and won first-place at each one' good. Most of the people I've known who've actually got in this way are prodigies. They were doing portfolio work and already had a place in the industry before they were even out of high school. Unless you can match the high quality of industry standards, going it solo is foolish. My recommendation is to go back to school. Yes, it is a gamble, but if you spend your time there wisely, it can payoff. I'm steadily paying off my loans with the work I've acquired and my best friend who graduated with me has already paid his off. But we only ended up the way we did because of the connections we made. Take advantage of everything they offer at college: clubs, seminars, conferences, certification classes, festivals, anything. Practically live at that school to soak up every bit of knowledge and contacts you can find. 85% of all my freelance and full-time gigs have come from either contacts or employers knowing one of my contacts. If you got the skill and can be social enough to gain some notoriety in the industry, you will go far. I don't know your skill or what your current job situation is, but if you're already in that much debt, you might as well finish school. Better to be paying off a mountain of debt at a job you can be proud of than to be shoving crap to pay off half the amount. Just let it be known to anyone else asking, college will not just hand you a job. The career placement department at my art college was useless despite how hard they tried to gain clients for students. The only people I've known who got jobs from that department ended up in nowhere internships at companies that only hire interns and nothing else. You're better off getting recommendations from instructors, employers, industry professionals or friends with industry jobs. If you want a career, you WILL have to mingle with professionals at events, you WILL have to actively seek out job possibilities and you WILL have to learn more than the school is teaching you. The degree is worth it, too. Though it is really only an expensive piece of paper, it is proof of your devotion and can help you land multiple jobs if you know how to pitch it correctly (I graduated in Media Arts and landed jobs in video production, animation, interactive design and web development). It is possible to succeed with an artistic degree, but it is not as simple as 'here is my degree, give me job please'. If anyone still believes this crap, drop out now before your heart is broken.
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Jan 29, 2012 20:54
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FrostedButts posted:From my experience, the only way you get anywhere in this industry is based on who you know. You won't get anywhere on work alone unless you're really, REALLY, BLOW-EVERYONE-ELSE-OUT-OF-THE-WATER good! I don't mean 'most of my friends like my work' good; I'm talking 'I submitted my work to three big festivals and won first-place at each one' good. Most of the people I've known who've actually got in this way are prodigies. They were doing portfolio work and already had a place in the industry before they were even out of high school. Unless you can match the high quality of industry standards, going it solo is foolish. Thanks for the awesome reply! You said everything I was already assuming for myself, but it's good to hear it from an outside source. I got plenty of small-time jobs my Freshman year just from being social with other students and teachers. A huge chunk of my jobs came from the result of attending college house parties, without even having to scour the internet or the schools career department. It definitely appeared to me that having a credible portfolio combined with being willing to make friends and go to social events did much more for my potential success than just the work alone. And that was only in my first year. I can imagine with three more to go the opportunities would only increase. So I think I will go ahead and return to school. If for nothing else than the connections I'd gain from it.
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Jan 30, 2012 05:08
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Sorry if I've missed this, but has anyone had any experience with the best way to contact vendors/distributors regarding selling artwork? I'm trying to get some of my junk sold in shops etc but I'm kind of at a loss as to who I should contact.
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Feb 1, 2012 13:53
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It could be a megathread. Are you trying to get your work sold at the dollar store or what? Artvendor.com?
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Feb 1, 2012 23:33
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