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NovemberMike posted:Toc the Younger is not a character defined by the happy events in his life. Just because he doesn't have Mancy the Luckless adaptability.  pakman posted:What sequence in MoI links up with that DG part? I just finished MoI, but I guess I'm just not a critical enough reader to notice things like this. Also I avoid looking things up for fear of being spoiled. MoI clarifies some what goes on in DG prologue with the Fener priest "not being there", message that is sent specifically to Heboric by Hood (Felisin thinks the message is for her, but she's wrong). Why Hood has any interest in Heboric? Because Heboric isn't some random priest, Heboric is Fener's DESTRIANT (as is revealed in MoI, if you pay attention. Go reread that excerpt at the beginning of book 3/Chapter 14 in MoI). Hood knew what was going to happen because in MoI it is revealed that Hood is plotting with K'rul. and K'rul is also manipulating everything (see the whole deal with Toc). Fener is brought down on the mortal realm NOT because of what you see on DG side. But because on MoI side the corrupt priest of Rath'Fener weakens the god. There's a lot going on there, with the "hands" going to poison the warren or somesuch, along with the intervention of the "alien" god, who's obviously the Crippled God.
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Jan 21, 2012 02:25
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pakman posted:And that's my half-nickel on the first few chapters of House of Chains. Karsa is actually involved with the Silandah, the boat in DG in that warren where Heboric & Kulp end up in.
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Jan 21, 2012 02:26
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Guess I'm just bad at reading. 
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Jan 21, 2012 04:15
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That boat is the best, it was just so weird and out there when you first read about it and it's not until the fourth and fifth book that you know what hell the deal with it was.
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Jan 21, 2012 04:40
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Abalieno posted:Just because he doesn't have Mancy the Luckless adaptability. I know that Hood and K'rul were up to something and that K'rul has been manipulating things for a bit, but did they come up with the way to depose Fener and install Treach in his place, then? Who exactly corrupted Rath'Fener, or was that his own doing with wanting political power instead of respecting his god? I also don't remember exactly why Heboric's hands were removed, but I remember there being an explanation somewhere in both DG and MoI, and not sure how exactly they are used to poison the realm. Quick Ben also seems to know the score and what's going on simply because of his partnership with the Talamandas and the Barghast gods. He knows that he travels the blood and veins of K'Rul when he uses warrens, as you learn when Envy is talking to k'Rul in Capustan. But now I'm wondering as to why Toc had to go to the Mother to get the wolf god to burst through. Now I'm thinking that I should stop reading HoC, and go reread the first three to see if I can get a better understanding of these things. I just like the story too much to stop. 
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Jan 21, 2012 05:13
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Has anyone got any impressions for orb scepter throne? Looks like it's available outside the United States now.
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Jan 21, 2012 05:13
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I remember what the deal is with Heboric losing his hands, but I don't remember where the spoiler is from, so read at your peril I guess: It was something like this. The priests of Fener would cut the hands off criminals and heathens and whatever, and sacrifice them to Fener, and they would pile up in heaps underneath him or something. Heboric was an honest priest and carried out the will of Fener dutifully, but the other priests in the cult were corrupt and politically driven, and they had Heboric behanded and cast out of the priesthood for their own ambitions. Having Heboric's hands in the pile was poisoning Fener, because he had the hands of his honest servant among all the criminals and scum. It's something like this, anyway. If Heboric was truly Fener's destriant (I don't remember), then that makes even more sense. It'd be like crucifying the Pope to gain political favour in the catholic church.
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Jan 21, 2012 07:36
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We are speaking of Rath'Fener's hands here, not Heboric's (whose hands were cut long before). Heboric's hands actually return as phantom hands, probably because the Crippled God "donates" Rath'Fener's hands to Heboric.
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Jan 21, 2012 07:47
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No, they weren't, pakman specifically said Heboric. When exactly do they cut off Rath'Fener's hands again?
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Jan 21, 2012 10:05
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Cutting off the hands isn't enough. You learn from the Gray Swords that cutting off the hands is part of invoking one of the Reves, i.e. one of the rituals of the cult. This particular one is meant to be a pure invocation of the god's justice. Since Heboric was a good man and a good priest, and was cast out and punished as a power play by corrupt priests, his hands were poison to Fener. When the hands were claimed by the Crippled God, they pushed Fener from his realm and into the mortal one. At least that's my memory of the whole thing.
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Jan 21, 2012 22:01
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I so very badly want the Letherii in Midnight Tides and their relationship with the Tiste Edur to be a veiled jab at American consumerism but I just don't think there's the will to be allegorical while Erikson struggles to maintain the sheer scope of his story telling.
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Jan 22, 2012 18:55
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Stew Man Chew posted:I so very badly want the Letherii in Midnight Tides and their relationship with the Tiste Edur to be a veiled jab at American consumerism but I just don't think there's the will to be allegorical while Erikson struggles to maintain the sheer scope of his story telling.
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Jan 22, 2012 19:38
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Yeah, it's supposed to be a criticism of strong hierarchies in general. IIRC he said that he based it partially off of some BC era Mediterranean crisis.
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Jan 23, 2012 00:17
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NovemberMike posted:Yeah, it's supposed to be a criticism of strong hierarchies in general. IIRC he said that he based it partially off of some BC era Mediterranean crisis. Yeah he's said numerous times that if it's based on anything, it's much older civilizations than the US.
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Jan 23, 2012 06:16
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I suppose it is a pretty universal theme. Also i just hit the  iest part of this book, Rhulad waking up during his embalming sweet jesus this is a disturbing image.
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Jan 23, 2012 07:33
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Stew Man Chew posted:I suppose it is a pretty universal theme. I can think of one bigger part When Rhulad gets a boner and the coins start popping off of his dick oh god I hope I didn't just make that part up I swear it happened
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Jan 23, 2012 15:02
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Abalieno actually posted a quote from Erikson on the last page of this thread describing why the Letherii weren't an American analogy:Erikson posted:This brings me, at long last, to my portrayal of the Empire of Lether starting in the fifth novel in the Malazan sequence, Midnight Tides. The reason this subject is on my mind is that, once again, I have been asked in a Q&A whether that empire and its political and economic system was intended as a commentary on the United States. Each time I am asked this question, my response is no. So, let’s take this as definitive: there were two major themes in that novel, the first being about siblings and the journeys made by two sets of three brothers, and the second being about inequity.
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Jan 24, 2012 02:20
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Just finished the first book and really enjoyed it. Story wasn't predictable or garbage even if it was incredibly hard to follow exactly what was going on at some points. I do like how the scenes interact with each other and felt the writing it self was pretty solid. I am anxious to start the new book but also hesitant because I really liked this set of characters.
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Jan 24, 2012 16:24
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FlyingCowOfDoom posted:Just finished the first book and really enjoyed it. Story wasn't predictable or garbage even if it was incredibly hard to follow exactly what was going on at some points. The second book is even better than the first and the third is better than that. I highly suggest you read it  I'm currently on the fourth book, House of Chains.Regarding Hoc holy crap Crokus is an assassin now instead of just a thief, and is on a mission for Cotillion.
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Jan 24, 2012 16:50
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FlyingCowOfDoom posted:Just finished the first book and really enjoyed it. Story wasn't predictable or garbage even if it was incredibly hard to follow exactly what was going on at some points. Having finished Deadhouse Gates (the second book) about a week ago, I know exactly what you mean. At the beginning I was kinda lost with the new characters and didn't really care about some of the ones which had been introduced, but as poo poo begins happening and you start to see how the threads interact with each other it gets increasingly difficult to put the book down. Stick with it because it really pays off.
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Jan 24, 2012 16:54
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OK, I'm about 60% through Orb, Sceptre, Throne and holy balls this is an improvement. Don't get me wrong, there are still occasional touches of poor writing ("We Seguleh live in a very live by the sword, die by the sword way." "I understand!") but they're no longer omnipresent, just few and far between. The rest of it is much, much better. I was disappointed in Esslemont having two 'new' characters but one is still less annoying while being deliberately written more grating than Kyle or Stonewielder new guy and the other was less bad to begin with and also only in two POV sections so far. It's not a total fix of his issues but I'm really looking forward to finishing it. Oh, and the names! There's been I believe only one new character with a four letter name and that guy's relatively minor so far, which is almost the biggest improvement of all, ICE's names sucked in his earlier books.
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Jan 24, 2012 18:26
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Yeah I've hit another roadblock in this series with Return of the Crimson Guards. I didn't mind Night of Knives so much because it was a short, relatively hollow book that focused on just two main characters along with the occasional scene with sideplot characters. In Crimson Guards there's a lot more going on, and so the substandard writing (compared to Erikson anyway) is making it difficult for me to get into it. I'm only about 150 pages in but this might be a good time to take a break and maybe read one of the Necromancer stories.
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Jan 24, 2012 20:23
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RotCG takes a long, long time to get going, which is easily its biggest flaw. ICE is not able to tie all his disparate elements together as well as Erikson, so a lot of the characters seem kind of pointless. Things pick up towards the middle of the book, however, and the ending is really good. I would actually recommend skipping Ghelel's chapters, since she is annoying as hell and hardly contributes at all to the overall plot.
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Jan 24, 2012 23:40
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Edmond Dantes posted:Having finished Deadhouse Gates (the second book) about a week ago, I know exactly what you mean. At the beginning I was kinda lost with the new characters and didn't really care about some of the ones which had been introduced, but as poo poo begins happening and you start to see how the threads interact with each other it gets increasingly difficult to put the book down. Stick with it because it really pays off. I feel the same way about most of the books, especially Midnight Tides. The beginning is slow, but sets everything up and refers back to plot threads in the previous books (and also sets stuff up for the following ones), then it builds up until you just can't stop reading. It really depends on how much time you're willing to put, in my opinion.
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Jan 25, 2012 00:23
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Juaguocio posted:RotCG takes a long, long time to get going, which is easily its biggest flaw. ICE is not able to tie all his disparate elements together as well as Erikson, so a lot of the characters seem kind of pointless. Things pick up towards the middle of the book, however, and the ending is really good. I would actually recommend skipping Ghelel's chapters, since she is annoying as hell and hardly contributes at all to the overall plot. Yeah that was a really puzzling set of chapters that seemed to do nothing but setup a future book. RotCG in general is kind of a lovely book, ICE can't write combat to save his life "X swordsman seemed to be everywhere at once!" but it does have a great ending. It is one of those books where if you're really hating a chapter you should just skip it, I generally dislike making that recommendation but there are some pointless ones that don't really serve the overall narrative or inject any useful humor/etc.
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Jan 25, 2012 16:48
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Illuyankas posted:OK, I'm about 60% through Orb, Sceptre, Throne and holy balls this is an improvement. Don't get me wrong, there are still occasional touches of poor writing ("We Seguleh live in a very live by the sword, die by the sword way." "I understand!") but they're no longer omnipresent, just few and far between. The rest of it is much, much better. I was disappointed in Esslemont having two 'new' characters but one is still less annoying while being deliberately written more grating than Kyle or Stonewielder new guy and the other was less bad to begin with and also only in two POV sections so far. It's not a total fix of his issues but I'm really looking forward to finishing it. Oh, and the names! There's been I believe only one new character with a four letter name and that guy's relatively minor so far, which is almost the biggest improvement of all, ICE's names sucked in his earlier books. e: Also Esslemont you may have changed that one pretty loving major character's gender as (possibly) a reference to how you and Erikson view your collective creation differently, and even included a method for how it could have happened, but it was still a stupid, pointless and unneeded change. Oh, and even when you make this book's version of the new naive military recruit becoming a typical cynical/badass soldier plotline less bad, it's still the third book in a row you've used it. Please stop. Illuyankas fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 17:45
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I'm four chapters into the last book. I was shocked to discover this because I had assumed I was still in the prologue. I'm wondering if a story ever actually starts or is the entire novel even more of the morose blather, the monotonous ramblings of characters inner thoughts that has defined (and ruined) the last few books? Does anything loving happen in this massive goddamn book? Has no one been editing these things since Midnight Tides?
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Jan 26, 2012 06:37
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As much as I liked Deadhouse Gates, I'm glad to be back to the Genabackis storyline with MoI. For as much that was going on in the book, DG honestly just felt like a side story to GotM/MoI. I get the feeling that the majority of the important players in the world, or at least what we've seen of it, are focused on Genbackis at the moment. There's just so much more going on in MoI. Also, I completely disagree with anyone who says these books don't have any exposition. The first hundred or so pages in MoI are almost entirely exposition - and it's awesome. There's been more interesting history and worldbuilding in these 100 pages than most fantasy can muster in an entire series. It's kind of crazy how much has been revealed already - it's like Erikson knows exactly what the reader expects the book to be and then gets everything expected out of the way right at the beginning so he can move on to the awesome stuff.
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Jan 26, 2012 10:51
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Conduit for Sale! posted:As much as I liked Deadhouse Gates, I'm glad to be back to the Genabackis storyline with MoI. For as much that was going on in the book, DG honestly just felt like a side story to GotM/MoI. I get the feeling that the majority of the important players in the world, or at least what we've seen of it, are focused on Genbackis at the moment. There's just so much more going on in MoI. I loved Deadhouse Gates, but currently reading MoI and really hating it. Too much ridiculous backstory world building fantasy crazy names, with 0 characters worth caring about. Hoping it picks up, because like I said, I enjoyed Deadhouse.
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Jan 26, 2012 14:18
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Ammanas posted:I'm four chapters into the last book. I was shocked to discover this because I had assumed I was still in the prologue. I'm wondering if a story ever actually starts or is the entire novel even more of the morose blather, the monotonous ramblings of characters inner thoughts that has defined (and ruined) the last few books? It does seem like his editor just let him go wild towards the end but I still thought the last two books were decent enough if you can ignore the cruft. It is a bit of a shame seeing the contrast between his earlier books and later ones. quote:trouble reading Memories of Ice The beginning can get a bit tedious but it really picks up later on and is considered one of the best books in the series. Stick with it a little bit and let us know how it turns out.
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Jan 26, 2012 15:08
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BananaNutkins posted:I loved Deadhouse Gates, but currently reading MoI and really hating it. Too much ridiculous backstory world building fantasy crazy names, with 0 characters worth caring about. Hoping it picks up, because like I said, I enjoyed Deadhouse. I'm glad I'm not you, because I loving love all that stuff and I like pretty much all of the major characters introduced so far except for the caravan guards - although I'm guessing they will become more important later on considering they're on the cover of the book.
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Jan 27, 2012 00:16
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Would I be missing/spoiling anything if I read Midnight Tides before House of Chains? I can only afford to buy one or the other at the moment, and Midnight Tides is sounding more interesting to me right now than HoC. Also the cover of MT is way cooler. e: whoops, sorry about the double post
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Jan 27, 2012 03:05
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Get House of Chains. It finishes up some important plots and expands on others, and introduces some very important and awesome characters. Midnight Tides is great, but it starts off a completely different plot.
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Jan 27, 2012 03:20
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Conduit for Sale! posted:Would I be missing/spoiling anything if I read Midnight Tides before House of Chains? I can only afford to buy one or the other at the moment, and Midnight Tides is sounding more interesting to me right now than HoC. Also the cover of MT is way cooler.
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Jan 27, 2012 03:24
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I'm about 75 pages into House of Chains. This is... different so far. Where exactly does this, uh, plotline fit chronologically in the series? ninja edit: oh poo poo they just freed a goddamn Forkrul Assail oh poo poo this is going to have major consequences
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Jan 27, 2012 03:55
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Popular Human posted:I'm about 75 pages into House of Chains. This is... different so far. Where exactly does this, uh, plotline fit chronologically in the series? Just keep reading. You don't want us to spoil you on it.
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Jan 27, 2012 04:07
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Screw it, I just bought both HoC and MT. So what if I can't eat? Books are food for your mind. Or something.
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Jan 27, 2012 04:37
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Actually reading MT before HoC would avoid you a "spoiler" since HoC begins showing you what happens to one character of Midnight Tides. Yet this spoiler is intended. Midnight Tides is the story of what happened to that character of HoC before he appeared in the book.
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Jan 27, 2012 05:40
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Don't tell him that man, then he'll be instantly aware when he starts reading MT. And as a side note/rant, I personally feel discovering the link between MT and the books before it was so cool that I get annoyed whenever someone innocently asks when MT takes place and someone just gives them a straight answer. Vanilla Mint Ice fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 06:07
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Don't tell him that man, then he'll be instantly aware when he starts reading MT. It's not a SECRET. The character appears with his full name right in the Dramatis Personae. You figure this out on the first page...
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Jan 27, 2012 06:43
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