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This isn't mean to be definitive or anything but I'm gonna throw in my own way of thinking about the franchise to maybe clarify the situation, hopefully. When it comes to the whole "is it SMT" argument, I think of the franchise as a tree. The tree is named "megaten" and encompasses all of everything. The main trunk of the tree is Megami Tensei and then Shin Megami Tensei. Persona is a branch of the tree. It's related and attached but goes off in it's own direction and does it's own thing. Similarly, there are other branches of the megaten tree, like Last Bible, Devil Children, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, Majin Tensei, and so on because seriously there are a shitload of branches. The only games that actually have "Megami Tensei" in the title itself (in Japan) are like the 2 famicom/msx games, the 2 super famicom games, Nocturne, NINE, the MMO, If..., and Strange Journey (hopefully I'm not forgetting any there). If... is pretty much "Persona 0" from what I've heard of it, as Radish mentioned above. Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online I believe is supposed to take place after the events of SMT 2. I'm not sure if NINE or Strange Journey make any attempt at actual inter-game continuity, but I remember there being a statement about SJ being more or less "SMT 4" in it's creator's mind. The SMT title has been added to everything released in the US since Nocturne because Nocturne was a surprise hit and they wanted to continue riding that wave with name recognition. It's up to you to decide if that "counts" I suppose, but in my mind it only confuses things needlessly. Why would Persona 3 and 4 be SMT games (and now Innocent Sin, as well) but not 1 or Eternal Punishment. This also leads to poo poo like a topic on another forum I go to being called something like "shin megami tensei: catherine (persona spin off!!)". Call em what you want I suppose, but it seems like a big dumb Robotnik/Eggman situation to me that's based entirely around what marketing decided should be on the box.
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Jan 19, 2012 05:18
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Every body is talking about all the Persona games in the Megami Tensei Thread like they are part of the series, I can't understand what the big deal.
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Jan 19, 2012 05:54
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That wasn't really my point, one thread for em all makes perfect sense to me.
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Jan 19, 2012 05:57
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Persona 1 and Devil Survivor had the "Megamu Ibunroku" prefix in Japan, which only helps to confuse things. It's all the same drat franchise anyways, even if they're not technically the same "series" (however you define that).
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Jan 19, 2012 06:31
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Light Gun Man posted:The only games that actually have "Megami Tensei" in the title itself (in Japan) are like the 2 famicom/msx games, the 2 super famicom games, Nocturne, NINE, the MMO, If..., and Strange Journey (hopefully I'm not forgetting any there). If... is pretty much "Persona 0" from what I've heard of it, as Radish mentioned above. Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online I believe is supposed to take place after the events of SMT 2. I'm not sure if NINE or Strange Journey make any attempt at actual inter-game continuity, but I remember there being a statement about SJ being more or less "SMT 4" in it's creator's mind. The first Devil Summoner game is literally called Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner. Every Devil Children game uses the Shin Megami Tensei name, even Messiah Riser, which wasn't released by Atlus. The first two Last Bible games use "Megami Tensei Gaiden" in their titles.
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Jan 19, 2012 06:32
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Welp never mind like half of what I said then I guess. I understand why stuff like If... and the first Devil summoner got them, as they were the first to establish a branching point, and at least Last Bible is using "gaiden"...but why the hell is it on the Devil Children games?
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Jan 19, 2012 06:43
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Guys it's cool, I have that chart that explains everything:
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Jan 19, 2012 06:55
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 That looks really interesting though. Too bad I can't read it. edit: is it just me or should the if... guy in the second row have an arrow labelled "same guy" pointing to Zero Cool / Crash Override? Any of you guys ever seen the movie if...? It's alright. Not sure how the game ties into it at all or if it does, other than "takes place in a school" and "shares a title/font". vvvvvv You are probably right, it's been awhile since I bothered to really play Imagine. Light Gun Man fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 19, 2012 |
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Jan 19, 2012 07:15
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Light Gun Man posted:
I'm pretty sure Imagine takes places between SMT1 and 2.
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Jan 19, 2012 07:28
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It's kind of weird. It's implied with the drugs that Shinji took that these things do operate on some level sentient thinking or at least some instinct since some people can't control them, after all they created from the mind to begin with. Izanagi does actually talk to the main character (Two times and it's the same thing both times, but still) and it does seem like with Ryoji/Thanatos that some Persona might actually think themselves, but he sort of helps prove the theory they're just concepts of the myths and not the actual things. I'd really like it to be made more clear, but in all honesty I'm probably just overthinking things. I think that in your first exemple, the idea was that Strega's Personas were awaken forcefully and they didn't knew how to really control it without drugs. Given your Persona in P3/4 is just a part of you, it was, along their psyche, damaged and matched their suicidal views, going as far as to return against themselves. Regarding Ryoji, well he is a Shadow after all, along with Nyx and Izanami. Those things seems to be enjoying a form of sentience, even if they usually use it to torment humans.
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Jan 19, 2012 09:51
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Pornographic Memory posted:I'm pretty sure Imagine takes places between SMT1 and 2. Yeah, that's pretty much it. It doesn't really have that much connection to either game, though.
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Jan 19, 2012 15:27
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OK, so I'm playing Nocturne. I took your advice, and now I am at level 12 and every time I level up I increase my Magic stat. When should I start actually putting points in my other stats? I just got past the Amala Network
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Jan 24, 2012 18:55
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Dogbutt posted:OK, so I'm playing Nocturne. I took your advice, and now I am at level 12 and every time I level up I increase my Magic stat. When should I start actually putting points in my other stats? I just got past the Amala Network
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Jan 24, 2012 19:09
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Dogbutt posted:OK, so I'm playing Nocturne. I took your advice, and now I am at level 12 and every time I level up I increase my Magic stat. When should I start actually putting points in my other stats? I just got past the Amala Network Well, if you're following the advice of the guy who replied to you and running a Physical build, you should have jumped to putting everything into Strength a while ago. But it's not a big deal since you can max it out easily anyway, so just start dumping everything into Strength now. Make sure to take lots of good physical attack skills, and as mentioned, get Focus and never get rid of it. You can, alternatively, just run a Magic build if you want. This will work perfectly fine if you are just going for a normal ending. You only really need a Physical build if you are going for the secret one. Keep Focus around though, because it works with Magma Axis. Side note, it's a really good idea to get both Resist Expel/Death and later Void Expel/Death. Takes up 2 slots, but you don't really need them for anything else. And you will be very thankful to not have to worry about bullshit instant kills on your main character.
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Jan 24, 2012 19:31
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:You can, alternatively, just run a Magic build if you want. This will work perfectly fine if you are just going for a normal ending. You only really need a Physical build if you are going for the secret one. Keep Focus around though, because it works with Magma Axis. Well I'm trying to go for the neutral ending without a walkthrough, so I guess I'll keep trucking with the magic! Thanks!
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Jan 24, 2012 22:39
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I was the one that told him to go magic. The thing about Nocturne is that the magatamas allow you to mess with your stats in a variety of ways, another thing is that many bosses and drat near 90% of random encounters you'll be doing have some kind of weakness to magic, learn them quickly and you'll be racking up those extra turns like mad. Hell if I'm not mistaken there is storyline boss that voids all phys damage. And of course, this is not persona, the MC isn't doesn't need to be a catch all to be ready for any situation, you have a revolving door of demons you can prepare for everything, in fact the best piece of SMT advice, at least for Nocturne I can give is to make sure you have all the buff skills, Tarukaja, Rakukaja, Sukukaja and the magic one which I forget the name, its entirely possible to have all 4 by level 20 actually. I would suggest you venture in the amala labyrinth once and pick up a deathstone and go fight one of the hidden bosses, well not to hidden, its entirely possible to bump into by accident and then fuse this hilariously game breaking demon.
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Jan 24, 2012 22:59
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Alteisen posted:Hell if I'm not mistaken there is a storyline boss that voids all phys damage. I remember one shotting myself when i played blind with a focused divine shot to that bastard  . Magic is too good in these games especially in this one since you can drain MP pretty drat early in the game to keep on casting. I remember draining Mara of all his MP since i got sick of him casting Diarahan every loving time.
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Jan 25, 2012 04:50
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Just got to Matador. Oh my god. What level should I be to wreck him. Or even survive at least five turns. I know I should use Sukunda, which I have.
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Jan 25, 2012 05:17
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Dogbutt posted:Just got to Matador. Oh my god. What level should I be to wreck him. Or even survive at least five turns. I know I should use Sukunda, which I have. I don't remember what level you should be, but here's the trick: Go back out to the world map. There's a bridge on the right side of the map, a guy will say there are some tough demons on the other side. Go over the bridge and beat up those demons for a while. Watch your levels go up. Well yeah do that too, but having more levels on your MC means better demons you can get, amongst other things. VVVVV Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 05:20
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Less grinding, more fusion.
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Jan 25, 2012 05:25
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Marogareh posted:I remember one shotting myself when i played blind with a focused divine shot to that bastard I did that too and couldn't stop laughing at myself, since half the reason I like SMT is because I find a lot of the bullshit deaths hilarious for some twisted reason.
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Jan 25, 2012 05:48
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 Sorry about the low quality, apparently it was a scan posted from 2chan. According to an article on Siliconera: A scan from the magazine also shows a new Bike Pursuit attack. This battle skill has characters ride motorcycles and can be used after you obtain a license to drive one. This remake is turning out to be genius at making the extras I never knew I always wanted. 
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Jan 25, 2012 06:08
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With regards to the talk on Nocturne, starting about mid to late way throguh the game, you can probably expect to lose to some bosses the first time you fight them unless you get lucky. The idea is to learn about them in the fight, and then fuse and train the demons that will allow you to beat the boss. For me, that's one of the most fun parts of the game, and makes the fusion more than just a fun 'raise a pet' component and actually makes it vital to success. That being said, there are certain demons that will be more generally useful than others, and there are certain skills that will make the game a whole lot more manageable. Happy to post some for you if you'd like, but I'll wait as don't want to ruin some of the fun with spoilers.
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Jan 25, 2012 06:13
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Catalina posted:According to an article on Siliconera: This is amazing. Whatever this "most requested feature" they put in this version is, it probably isn't as good as this.
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Jan 25, 2012 06:25
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Oh hey, I keep forgetting to scan the Persona magazines I got. I can't promise I'll get them out RIGHT away since I'm kinda lacking a scanner. But I'll see what I can do.
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Jan 25, 2012 06:49
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 Screen grabs from the Madhouse made opening. The bike does sound like an awesome idea.
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Jan 25, 2012 07:02
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Dogbutt posted:Just got to Matador. Oh my god. What level should I be to wreck him. Or even survive at least five turns. I know I should use Sukunda, which I have. 19. Buy the magatama that can null force, its a vendor right there in that area, on the other side of the water. Recruit a snake nozuichi(hairy ball looking thing with an elephant trunk), he voids force and is pretty strong. Get yourself a pixie and an angel, fuse them both for a Megami Uzume, she voids force and has media. Check your inventory, do you have an agate gem? I hope you do, anyway go to the gem shop owner and get yourself a water elemental then recruit a yoma isora(manta ray looking things) they are in the water in the area you're at, then fuse it with the elemental, this will give you a Yoma Koppa with Tarukaja and Sukukaja, he also voids force. For the battle itself, pass all turns and simply stack Sukukaja 4 times then do the same with Tarukaja, this puts you on even footing with him in terms of agility and negates his red capote, the tarukaja will have you and your party doing about a 100 damage, 10 hits will do him in provided nobody misses. Matador is very patterned,he always does the same moves over and over and if the battle drags on to long you WILL die, he will just focus+andalucia all the time. Matador is THE point where you need have a good grasp on the weakness system and fusing and the like, once I figured that out and made that team I never lost to him again, it helps that you now have access to arguably the 2 best buff spells in the game. You'll never need to grind again after him. For the levels needed to get the demons you can just grind right outside the door the manikin opens, the enemies there give great exp.
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Jan 25, 2012 07:03
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Rinkles posted:
If you told me that picture of the scooter riding on the rainbow came from a Katamari game I wouldn't bat an eyelash. It's just so awesome!
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Jan 25, 2012 07:23
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Guess Yosuke's dream of getting one of those will finally come true.
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Jan 25, 2012 07:44
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Rinkles posted:Is that Marie... with a Persona?
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Jan 25, 2012 19:58
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Wait, so are they going to drive those bikes into the TV or...? I so want a P4G on console now. It looks amazing.
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Jan 25, 2012 21:03
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Persona 4 The Golden to have entirely new town So after you and the gang get licenses to drive motorcycles, Yosuke suggests that they all should take a road trip on them. Their destination is apparently a neighboring town as well as the beach. ROAD TRIP!
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Jan 26, 2012 00:41
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How the hell do press turns work in Devil Survivor? Sometimes Ill hit someone with an element theyre weak against, but I dont get the extra turn.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:13
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There's an element of randomness you have to deal with, I think your agility score affects this chance, but I'm not sure.Policenaut posted:Persona 4 The Golden to have entirely new town Man they are going all-out with this remake aren't they?
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Jan 26, 2012 01:31
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I wonder how they are going to fit all this stuff (road trip, beach, ski resort, new social link character). It's not like they can add more days to the year. I guess you could show up a few months earlier or make the deadline later than the new year or something.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:37
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I really doubt this extra town is going to be anything more than a few gag scenes, really.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:49
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Well the ski event seems to be taking place in January, and the game had at least a month of free time if you followed the max S.link guide so they have some room to fit this stuff in.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:50
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I'm assuming some of the events will be during that stretch of time after the Good Ending and before the true Ending where the clock speeds forward while you scream at the game about how you could have used those months to up your social links. For instance, the date on the ski event seems to be in Januray. That ties into my guess for the "most requested" feature, too. It's probably more things to do in the game in that big time skip at the end. I don't mind that much if the new scenes cut into the social links, though, because I've seen a lot of those events already, and the new events look :krad. Though the obsessive compulsive completionist in me is excited to see exactly what method it will take to see everything in one playthrough. Also, I totally had no plans to buy a Vita, Atlus why are you doing this to me, I'm already planning my Christmas money for this year argh.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:55
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That new screen of Marie seems to really confirm the new Velvet Room girl theory, I can't see how that can't be the case at this point. Also this is a little late and from the last page but: Radish posted:They way they caught him in his lie was kind of lame anyway since it wouldn't be that unusual for a mediocre detective to think that the kidnappings were related to the serial murders that both started around the same time. Yeah and what's especially infuriating about it is Naoto herself loving told him all that like maybe half an hour or so before in order to convince him to let the MC go and try to figure out who could've kidnapped Nanako. He even repeats one of the kids saying "like what happened to all of us" during that scene too. Then she acts like she caught him in such a giant lie, jesus. Considering all they talked about right in front of him you'd have to be drop dead stupid not to put two and two together there. This is also pretty much part of why I just can't like Naoto. Sorry, that's just a part that's bothered me for ages. Katsudon fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 02:02
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Katsudon posted:Yeah and what's especially infuriating about it is Naoto herself loving told him all that like maybe half an hour or so before in order to convince him to let the MC go and try to figure out who could've kidnapped Nanako. He even repeats one of the kids saying "like what happened to all of us" during that scene too. Then she acts like she caught him in such a giant lie, jesus. Considering all they talked about right in front of him you'd have to be drop dead stupid not to put two and two together there. This is also pretty much part of why I just can't like Naoto. Quoting this because I also hate this and it's been bothering me immensely since I've played the game in 2009. I know they only made the game in 18 months, and went through some plot rewrites, but that's probably the lowest point of the writing to me.
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Jan 26, 2012 02:23
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