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Most of my friends think achewood sucks but can't/won't elaborate on why. They just say "it isn't funny and I don't know why you think it is" or something like that.
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Jan 25, 2012 21:48
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To be fair, how many of us were hooked by the first strip we read? There is kind of a syncing period before we "got it", and I'd venture to say no other strip has one close to Achewood's. Initially, I was put off by some of the wordiness. I was like, alright, get to the point, but soon realized it's part of the charm. Something doesn't have to happen in each strip, it can just be or at the very least, be observed.
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Jan 25, 2012 21:56
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You have to marinate in it enough that the characters become people you're interested in and enjoy reading.
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Jan 25, 2012 22:01
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Dominion posted:Most of my friends think achewood sucks but can't/won't elaborate on why. They just say "it isn't funny and I don't know why you think it is" or something like that. I was that guy, and eventually I decided to read it because goddamn, all these people think it's great, so I'm reading through it, and it's okay, I guess, and then this strip happened and "If I had plans, they were made by an incorrect life I no longer maintain" is one of the funniest loving things I'd ever read, and then I was hooked.
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Jan 25, 2012 22:02
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Dominion posted:Most of my friends think achewood sucks but can't/won't elaborate on why. They just say "it isn't funny and I don't know why you think it is" or something like that. I've run into the utter "this comic totally baffles me/defies comprehension" thing too. One of my friends said it's "like an inside joke you never quite feel included in."
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Jan 25, 2012 22:37
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XKCD is terrible but there's lots of casual misogyny in Achewood that I notice more and more as I re-read strips, which makes me uncomfortable sometimes.
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Jan 25, 2012 23:10
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Dodgeball posted:To be fair, how many of us were hooked by the first strip we read? There is kind of a syncing period before we "got it", and I'd venture to say no other strip has one close to Achewood's. Part of loving it immediately might also have to do with whether you've been reading since the beginning. Achewood was big on the Portal of Evil IRC channel when Onstad first launched & I remember liking it from the start. When I go back to the first 2001 strips now, I'm sort of reminded of early Simpsons episodes; I cannot decide if I liked them because they were actually good in a way I can't see now that I'm spoiled by quality, or if I maybe just liked it because a large group of people I was spending too much time around also liked it. Honestly, I think it's the prior. I liked it so much because it was literally like no other webcomic (even extant newspaper comic strips weren't as good by that point in time). Compared to the clunky, unfunny, fandom-obsessed garbage that made up the majority of webcomics, Achewood was the least wanky thing in existence on the internet in 2001. Then in the space of, I think, four months the individual characters started developing personalities, the jokes and patter got smarter, new breakout characters, like Ray, popped up and storylines started forming and wham... it was like the Simpsons' transition from season one to two all over again. I think I've mentioned the Simpsons twice because it's the best comparison; both of them premiered in a then derided format (webcomics/primetime network animation) and showed that more could be done with the medium than was originally conceived. As for the wordiness... that sort of happened over time. If you look at the first couple years, the language wasn't quite so byzantine. It crept up in such a way that you didn't notice until someone else pointed it out. EDIT: I think the overall point I was trying to make with this multi-paragraph journey up my own rear end was that I can understand not liking or being slow to warm to Achewood if you weren't reading from the beginning, because, context. mysterious frankie fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 23:12
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Look, as much as I love Achewood, I won't criticize anyone who doesn't like it because different people have different tastes, and it's silly to harass people for a subjec-Locus posted:"The art is fine but the language is too awkward to read"  No. No no no, this aggression will not stand. 
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Jan 25, 2012 23:16
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Van Dis posted:XKCD is terrible but there's lots of casual misogyny in Achewood that I notice more and more as I re-read strips, which makes me uncomfortable sometimes. Can you point some out? I'm usually pretty good at noticing stuff like that but havent re-read older stuff lately.
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Jan 25, 2012 23:32
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Dodgeball posted:To be fair, it's not your job to educate him. People are going to like what they're going to like, no matter how trite. I'm sorry, but some friendships are toxic to begin with.
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Jan 26, 2012 00:12
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someone bought me The Great Outdoor Fight book, and I thought it was awesome and then spent the next week at work doing nothing but reading all the old strips. I think the book(s) are a pretty decent way to start if you have a few bucks to spare and whatnot.
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Jan 26, 2012 00:26
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Van Dis posted:XKCD is terrible but there's lots of casual misogyny in Achewood that I notice more and more as I re-read strips, which makes me uncomfortable sometimes. I never really felt any outright mysoginy, but a lot of the Beef/Molly strips have me thinking "I hope this isn't a 'write what you know' situation because this is straight up toxic stuff."
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Jan 26, 2012 01:25
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JethroMcB posted:I never really felt any outright mysoginy, but a lot of the Beef/Molly strips have me thinking "I hope this isn't a 'write what you know' situation because this is straight up toxic stuff." Yeah, but I always thought it was pretty clear that Beef was the hosed up one in that relationship and that all the terrible things he was afraid of Molly saying or doing were a result of him being delusional rather than her being the sort of person who actually would act like that.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:35
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JethroMcB posted:I never really felt any outright mysoginy, but a lot of the Beef/Molly strips have me thinking "I hope this isn't a 'write what you know' situation because this is straight up toxic stuff." It seems like Molly is pretty much the most normal person in the cast. I feel like she's the foil that lets us know that Roast Beef has some pretty severe emotional issues, especially regarding relationships. I don't think I've read anything yet where she wasn't being mostly reasonable. 100 HOGS AGREE fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 01:38
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:It seems like Beef has some pretty deep issues and Molly is pretty much the most normal person in the cast. Did I miss something or is there something I haven't seen yet? For the most part I agree - he's crazy, she's rational, all the bad stuff tends to be in his head - but Molly & Beef's relationship goes through some major changes (2007, so you're close.) It turned Beef turned into a really unlikable character for me for a while, possibly because it also happens to dovetail with an obnoxious period where Beef is super concerned/complains a lot about money and how much things cost.
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Jan 26, 2012 01:59
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This might make me a sad and pathetic person, but I honestly find this Molly Blog Entry to be incredibly heartwarming.
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 02:03
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redmercer posted:I'm sorry, but some friendships are toxic to begin with. It's okay though, most of the time you can move past it and heal
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Jan 26, 2012 02:07
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I've run into the utter "this comic totally baffles me/defies comprehension" thing too. One of my friends said it's "like an inside joke you never quite feel included in." A lot of the jokes are hard to understand if you aren't familiar with the characters. I recommend this arc to get people into it; http://achewood.com/index.php?date=04032003
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Jan 26, 2012 02:30
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abigserve posted:A lot of the jokes are hard to understand if you aren't familiar with the characters. I recommend this arc to get people into it; "Prison is supposed to be a really hard place to get out of" is one of my favorite quotes.
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Jan 26, 2012 02:50
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abigserve posted:A lot of the jokes are hard to understand if you aren't familiar with the characters. I recommend this arc to get people into it; Killin' is a special thing. It's a special thing you do. When you want someone to die.
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Jan 26, 2012 02:55
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I can understood those that say Achewood is hard to get into. I got into Achewood fairly late in the game, and when I started reading the recent strips I just didn't get all the hoopla. Occasionally something would get a good laugh from me, but for the most part, it really seemed like the whole "in-joke that I'm not in on." But because there were those little gems in there, I still wanted to get into it. So I started from the beginning, and it was much easier to get into from there. The early strips were more jokey and self contained, so you didn't have to have any familiarity with the characters and how Onstad writes to really get into it. After reading quite a bit, I ordered all the paperback collections that were available at the time, devoured those, and now I'm a diehard fan. But yeah, I completely understand new readers being put off by strips created in the last few years or so. Especially if you happen to start during an arc like the Lash of Thanatos, you won't know what the gently caress is going on.
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Jan 26, 2012 02:59
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Dominion posted:Yeah, but I always thought it was pretty clear that Beef was the hosed up one in that relationship and that all the terrible things he was afraid of Molly saying or doing were a result of him being delusional rather than her being the sort of person who actually would act like that. Probably more the former than the latter; everyone gets pissed at the people they love sometimes, especially so if they've Got Problems. It is the great American love story. Sometimes love is wondering if you sealed the deal just because you didn't want the other person to get hurt. Sometimes love is those fleeting, wonderful highs. Sometimes, love is wondering if you trapped an innocent person. I hate you in the only way that helps me understand you. As far as getting people into achewood, it's hard to just point at The Party or the GOF and say "GO." As the alt-text says, it's not funny, it's character development. Just gotta hope for the best with some people.
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Jan 26, 2012 03:44
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So how many weeks need to pass without update before we declare this yet another false start?
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Jan 26, 2012 03:46
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:So how many weeks need to pass without update before we declare this yet another false start? Well, he did update with a blog entry last week. Per Onstad, they count as updates.
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Jan 26, 2012 04:02
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JethroMcB posted:I never really felt any outright mysoginy, but a lot of the Beef/Molly strips have me thinking "I hope this isn't a 'write what you know' situation because this is straight up toxic stuff." Can you elaborate? I'm pretty familiar with the strip, and besides hetero normative and "normal" gender role stuff, I am not familiar with anything blatantly toxic outside of Beef's well documented neuroses and obsessions. I'm not counting stuff like Beef complaining about traditions or a few lazy "men are like this, women are like THAT" jokes, because anyone who writes 10 years worth of stuff is going to reveal at least a few things like that, since not a single person is free of any bigoted or backwards thoughts.
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Jan 26, 2012 04:49
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I guess... Nice Pete sort of talks about women like he's quoting Dave Sim? Otherwise, I dunno what's really misogynist, unless you mean how Achewood has a entirely male cast, Molly, Tina and Mr. Bear's girlfriend aside. It is sort of a dude's pleasure, as Roast Beef would phrase it.
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Jan 26, 2012 05:18
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abigserve posted:A lot of the jokes are hard to understand if you aren't familiar with the characters. I recommend this arc to get people into it; oh god I had things I was going to do tonight and I just lost an hour.
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Jan 26, 2012 05:24
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Cat and Girl tackled this misogyny thing years ago. EDIT: For the record, I've only ever got one friend into Achewood, and it was with the Catullus strip, because he is the only other person I've ever known who would get a Catullus joke without further exposition. H.P. Shivcraft fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 05:33
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Holy poo poo that cat and girl comic is amazing.
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Jan 26, 2012 06:46
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I was hoping someone would post it, because I could not for the life of me remember who made it or what it was called.
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Jan 26, 2012 08:38
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abigserve posted:A lot of the jokes are hard to understand if you aren't familiar with the characters. I recommend this arc to get people into it; If I'm actually trying to pitch Achewood to someone I usually have them start with The Party.
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Jan 26, 2012 09:33
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:If I'm actually trying to pitch Achewood to someone I usually have them start with The Party. I feel like this is too early and not refined enough and also kind of too weird. Some of the strips don't have jokes, one of them is just Ray dancing to Africa by Toto. Personally I feel like a later strip with something snappy and instant in it is better!
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Jan 26, 2012 10:30
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Android Blues posted:I feel like this is too early and not refined enough and also kind of too weird. Some of the strips don't have jokes, one of them is just Ray dancing to Africa by Toto. Personally I feel like a later strip with something snappy and instant in it is better! For some reason Volvo of Despair did it for me. The strip got linked a couple of times in an IRC channel I used to hang out at and after reading that one I thought "well let's give this thing a thorough read!" I mean c'mon, "gently caress, man! I barfed! I barfed because you looked in my eyes!" e: Also gently caress you guys, lots of new posts had me thinking that Onstad has finally delivered next update <  >
Chrieger fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 15:32
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Speaking of a lack of updates, in some research I'm doing I just found the damnedest thing:A History of the European Fantastic and Its Relationship to the Absurd, by Dr. Raymo Smookels posted:Of some interest in the letters [of Polish writer Bruno Schulz] is a passing reference he makes to "a half-remembered Hoffmann tale" wherein "a group of Scandinavian rustics travel to town only to become lost and, in the process, discover a completely fantastic village," fantastic in this case meaning populated by talking animals. H.P. Shivcraft fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 20:55
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Chrieger posted:For some reason Volvo of Despair did it for me. The strip got linked a couple of times in an IRC channel I used to hang out at and after reading that one I thought "well let's give this thing a thorough read!" My favourite personally is Subway Wars. Also I really wish they'd use Lyle more, he's my favourite character.
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Jan 27, 2012 22:38
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It's kinda strange with Lyle having been around since the very beginning that I can only recall one (brief) storyline centered on him. Even Todd's had more time in the spotlight.
Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 23:14
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Rollersnake posted:It's kinda strange with Lyle having been around since the very beginning that I can only recall one (brief) storyline centered on him. Even Todd's had more time in the spotlight. Mister Band, The Ballad of Lyle and Darlene (begun in 2009, referenced in 2002), SaniTaco (big enough to be mentioned in the storyline dropbox, otherwise I wouldn't say it's "big"), Lyle Wins Oasis (dropbox), The Perky Pervert (dropbox)... Whatever, Lyle's passed out a lot. He made a football move three feet!
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Jan 28, 2012 02:35
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Deathlove posted:Whatever, Lyle's passed out a lot. He made a football move three feet!
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Jan 28, 2012 03:10
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:Speaking of a lack of updates, in some research I'm doing I just found the damnedest thing: This is incredible and makes me even more in awe of Onstad.
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Jan 28, 2012 03:15
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:Speaking of a lack of updates, in some research I'm doing I just found the damnedest thing: Can you elaborate on this? where did you find it?
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